NBA Power Rankings: Three Game Losing Streak Has Hawks Sliding
The Atlanta Hawks have dropped the first three games of their current four-game home stand and thus are justifiably sliding in this week's edition of the NBA Power Rankings round-up. Honestly, SB Nation's Tom Ziller wasn't as harsh on the Hawks as I was expecting although their No. 8 ranking did come out before Monday night's loss to Phoenix.
| 8. | Atlanta Hawks | 16-8 | W: TOR; L: MEM, PHI | Peachtree Hoops |
| Atlanta has largely survived the loss of Al Horford -- he could return for the playoffs -- but looks to be a solid step below the East's top three teams. Josh Smith is having a brilliant defensive season, but has reverted to his old ways on offense (too many jumpers). Joe Johnson is quietly earning out that massive contract, and Ivan Johnson is an absolute cult hero. | ||||
Atlanta didn't fair nearly as well in Marc Stein's ESPN.com power rankings this week where they dropped five spots all the way down to No. 14.
Sorry, Hawks. Can't give you two All-Stars when you have four wins in 12 tries against .500-or-better teams. The consolation: Atlanta is a tidy 12-0 against teams with losing records to rank as the only unbeaten team in that category even after losing Horford. And it's 10-1 when Joe Johnson scores 20-plus.
NBA.com's John Schuhmann also drops the Hawks five spots down from No. 4 last week to No. 9 this week.
Atlanta (16-8)
Pace: 92.6 (21), Off: 102.1 (11), Def: 96.0 (6)
After consecutive double-digit losses at home, you have to wonder if the Hawks' ability to withstand the loss of Al Horford expired when we flipped the calendar from January to February. The rest of their pre-break schedule is pretty rough, with eight of the 10 games against teams with winning records.
Chris Sheridan of Sheridanhoops.com drops Atlanta four spots this week down to No. 10. Sheridan offers that this is probably a generous ranking and continues to insist that the Hawks are looking to shed payroll instead of add a center to the roster.
LAST WEEK: 2-2 THIS WEEK: 3 games KEY GAME: FRI at ORL
Gotta love the cupcake diet: They are 13-0 against sub-.500 teams, 3-8 against everyone else. Now Jason Collins is out at least 2 weeks. How are they not in the now-dormant Chris Kaman acquisition race? Oh yeah, the dreaded luxury tax. They are looking to shed payroll, not add it. This is a generous ranking. Very generous.
For more on the Atlanta Hawks check out SB Nation Atlanta, follow Jason Walker and Kris Willis, along with Peachtree Hoops on Twitter and check out the Peachtree Hoops Facebook Fan Page.
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Gettin' Ugly.
Can’t really argue with any of it.
Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl Google+: Ed G
by Duff_Man on Feb 7, 2012 2:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Can’t really argue with any of it.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
Seems like the chemistry has been off since Kirk has been back
In my opinion, i’d rather go w/ Pargo, Kirk is expendable and should be traded for a defensive big. Just my opinion….
"Parfaits might be the most delicious thing on the whole damn planet"
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Feb 7, 2012 2:35 PM EST reply actions
Funny how before the season
They thought they were sunk because of Kirk Hinrich’s injury and now he is viewed as the scapegoat for a slide.
Bronn remember what I told you about the sky falling as soon as there was a bump in the road?
@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis
Who is "they" that thought that the season hinged on Kirk?
I dont recall a bunch of people who thought the season was sunk because of Kirk Hinrich. I cant even remember one?
the chemistry has been off since Kirk has been back.
LD plays him against starters, benching Teague, then Teague comes and plays with the bench. The chemistry has been off since Kirk came back.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 7, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously I must be out of touch with this team because I don't see the same things you guys are seeing
@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis
True
But then, I expected we were going to win ALL of the last three games, and instead we were (basically) blown out twice, and then lost to a sub-.500 team, all at home. That’s different than my prediction that we might lose 4 straight to good teams on the road. So yes, I can’t really argue with the negative sentiments. But that’s perhaps because I was being overly optimistic.
I don’t think the slide has anything to do either Kirk Hinrich’s return (though he does need to play better) or the loss of Jason Collins. Losing Collins hurts when we’re playing against a very specific type of player (Dwight Howard being one of those), but it doesn’t explain the failure to score in the paint against guys like Spencer Hawes and Channing Frye.
I can, however, buy that this is a delayed response to losing Horford. For a while after he was out, the team dynamic improved, sharing the ball better, running better offensive sets, and working on team defense because they had an awareness that he was missing. Now they’re starting to fall back into old bad habits. Is that all of it? I don’t know.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
I am waiting for Josh and Joe to stop BATTLING for...
The Allstar spot… I think once that decision is made, well will get back t playing solid basketball
If that is truly a distraction, we're far weaker mentally than I thought.
Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl Google+: Ed G
by Duff_Man on Feb 7, 2012 3:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
+1 but would it surprise you?
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 7, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
We have had this problem every year...
3 guys(No Al this year) all trying to make the Allstar team. Josh has already called out the "ISO-Joe and the lack of ball movement…When defense has been the problem and it starts with him(Josh).
The offense has been a problem in several games as well
Philly and Memphis were both examples of the offense faltering under defensive pressure. Some of that is iso-Joe against good defenders (Igoudala, Allen), but equally important is the settling for jump shots by everyone when even the open jumpers weren’t falling. Josh again has to set the tone by getting in the post and taking it to the rim because he’s the primary post player. As far as transition ball we need to secure defense rebounds to get out and run and make scoring easier. Against Memphis they seemed to get all the rebounds regardless of what the stat sheet showed.
The offense falters because we’re looking for Iso Joe primarily running him off of multiple screens and there are no options to get anything to the basket. We keep running the same predictable plays.
Now, Memphis went small with in Rudy Gay at the 4 for stretches.
Josh getting in the post has not happened against Lavoy Allen or SPencer Hawes but he backed down Channing Frye who is a defender of very ill repute. I hate how soft that guy is.
As far as transition ball, the only athletic persons to fill the wing are Teague and Josh Smith. Now Teague is 6’1 and not going to fill the wing he’s the point guard. And Josh Smith is playing PF, and center. He cant get out and run the wing.
Larry Drew cooked up some crock about guards rebounding so Josh could run. I really hope hes trying to make the best of a bad situation because that was real dumb.
Because heres what he says about Miami’s fastbreak:
At its best, Miami appears almost symphonic in its offensive movement and capable of devouring opponents with its speed. Wade and James, in particular, too often were awkwardly deferential to each other last season, but since have discovered an awareness of how best to complement one another.
“They really remind me of the (‘Showtime’ Los Angeles) Lakers, the way they get out there and fast break,” Atlanta coach Larry Drew said. "It’s the anticipation of the missed shot, the anticipation of the turnovers.
“Their first three or four steps out of the backcourt, they’re in a dead sprint. It’s like somebody shot them out of a cannon.”
I bolded the key words that seemed duplicitous to me. Very good word “Backcourt”. James Chalmers and Wade play in the Miami backcourt.
Teague, Johnson and Marvin play in ours. Our best finisher is in our frontcourt instead of the backcourt and the inverted fastbreak is not working.
http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/12/13/atlanta-hawks-camp-report-day-5/
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 7, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Transition
I was bringing up transition as it lessens the stagnation of our half court sets. I wasn’t buying into the guard rebounding idea. Hell I want anyone on the team to secure the rebound because it seems when we aren’t surrendering a super high percentage we’re giving up multiple shots.
You are correct in that we don’t have the best wings to fill on the break. But then again what break? Hard to outlet the ball if you don’t get the rebound or if you are taking it out of bounds. Also too often when there is a break opportunity it gets squandered on a high difficulty pass. Joe and Josh seem to be equally guilty in committing these errors. Gets on my nerves how nonchalant they are about as well. Those are potential 4 points swings.
One more thing that is bugging me on offense that I need to get off my chest. I’m tired of Jeff Teague deferring at the start of the game. Each game we start by trying to get Josh involved then Joe and maybe even Jeff. Around the time Jeff gets to try some penetration Larry Drew is taking him out at the 6 minute mark as 1 of the first 2 substitutions. Maybe once we can try penetration first to cause Josh’s man to think about help responsibilities before getting the ball to Josh for an iso or Joe for an iso. They’ll still be only the court beyond the 6 minute mark and have time to let the offense come to them. Silly of me the pecking order must be honored even if we start slow.
BTW, why make the initial sub the same way each time. If Marvin or Jeff is hot ride that guy for a little while before making the sub. Maybe sub for Joe for a few minutes to shake things up and then bring him back 3 or 4 minutes later to abuse the other team’s backup. Dammit LD try something to shake it up.
I should have said
Our best finisher is in our frontcourt instead of the backcourt and the inverted fastbreak is not working “without Al Horford”.
We have to go big and secure the rebound. But I dont see how we do that. And I dont think LD has an offense to hide Josh’s lack of 3 point shooting. But at this point I think we have to play big and start getting some post ups. Getting Josh in the fast break with the backcourt.
My plan is We sign a vet center for backup and start Ivan and Pachulia over Marvin. Josh crashes boards as an SF with the starters, we dont really run plays for him or Ivan unless the opponent does something like stick Jodie Meeks on them.
And then we mix in Josh with the backups to milk the transition game and athleticism.
Im watching Utah and Indiana right now and how much they go into the post theyd kill us imo.
Id be very disappointed if Sund does not sign a Mikki Moore or some vet center.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
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* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 7, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Someone call Kenny Loggins
The Hawks are in the………………………………….Danger Zone
I touched the garment of Ivan Johnson and I saw the Rapture
flight suit up
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
by Throw on Feb 7, 2012 4:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
inevitable
Midnight struck and the Hawks turned back into a pumpkin. On the plus side, at least we won’t have to debate whether they are elite any more. Onwards to arguing fire sale vs going all in on Dwight Howard….
All-Star desperation causing problems? Really?? I mean...
There were no problems going 4-1 on the road trip. Absolutely no coincidence that these centers did damage.
1. Marc Gasol
2. Hawes and Vucevic
3. Gortat and Frye
Watching Al Jefferson, make me long Mr.Horford...
Watching a Big man that can catch and finish in traffic….Makes me “Al Sick”.
I started to miss him
when I saw the plays we draw up that leaves zaza open for a mid range jumper. With Al I knew it was automatic, with zaza I still hold my breath
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
Or when Josh goes 2-9 from 16-23ft
Or when Zaza can’t rotate fast enough to stop penetration
Or when Vlad can’t secure a rebound
Or when I think Al could have blocked or intimidated that shot at the rim
Or when 6’6 Ivan has to play center
Or when I look at all of the offensive rebounds we give-up
I just miss the Consistency, size, athleticism and skill he brought to the team.
Al Jefferson is playing against Hibbert. You're really going to try to make that statement, now? Bad timing. I mean Really?
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
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* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 7, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
LD says he's considering lineup changes. So I guess we'll see if he benches Marvin. Or not.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*for size
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 7, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
watch he puts ivan in the starting lineup and josh at the 3
I only say this cus he wouldnt have the balls to bench Josh
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
by Throw on Feb 7, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes less take out the 40 percent three point shooter
To put Josh Smith at the SF position, where he’ll guard the perimeter, where he tends to leave people open, swell idea slim
you're imagining things. Where he'll guard the perimeter where he'll launch out like a cannon in transition and where he's a tougher rebounder
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
and Marvin tends to get blown by outright with no ability to recover. And what SFs has he left open this year?
You really think if it was Josh Smith vs Igluodala or Josh Smith vs Grant Hill WE would have lost based on them shooting over Smith? Really?
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
and when Memphis went small, Smith wouldn't have won the matchup in the backcourt? OJ Mayo/Mike Conley/Tony Allen. You're killing me.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Did you see the game Chaning Frye had....
and how wide open he was….What about Matt Bonner… Do you think it was just a coincidence, thta those were the men Josh was assigned to guard.
His desire is to protect the rim and block shots, but sometimes, the SMART thing to do is guard the 3pt shooter and stop falling back into the paint.
Ryan Anderson is gonna kill us
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
Even if his desire is to play help defense wouldn’t it have made sense to stick him on Kawhi Leonard, a non shooter?
How about Grant Hill’s shooting nowadays? The 1st 3 Frye made was from Grant Hill slashing. You think he’d forget Rudy Gay was a shooter especially when he’s known Rudy Gay since high school? Ariza a shooter.
I dont know what 3 point shooting SFs we’ve faced, or that wouldnt be bothered by Smiths length.
I could see Ivan to start at the 4 and Smith at the 3. But I do wonder how the offense would change.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Here's Bonner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_u5APL3-Bw
and Ryan Anderson is going to kill us? How about stick Josh Smith on Turkoglu? Worked last year when he was fat. smh.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
The Hawks issues are correctable
people on the internet with outlandish opinions with no statistical backing are still in plenty of supply however.
Discipline, ball movement, and making sure to cut off the ball-handler on screens
The Hawks can improve by injecting any of these things back into their game, and size has little to do with it. Being undersized has absolutely nothing to do with losing to the 76ers and Suns. Without Elton Brand, neither of those teams has an interior player that’s even nearly as talented as Josh Smith. Spencer Hawes should never outplay Zaza Pachulia.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
Interesting perspective
We still got outplayed by Sixers (Gave up a ton of points to center position). And last game, we got frustrated with Suns size taking it to basket.
Being small means we are shying away from taking it inside with force. And other teams are attacking us.
I do believe something (I call that chemistry) has changed since the SA game, and the team which had gotten used to roles since Lion injury, has had to re-adjust to Kirk coming back. That adjustment is still work in progress IMO.
I think based on intent to re-insert Kirk, a new lineup should really be considered.
Here is my proposal (so I am answering my own question) :-)
point: Teague – Pargo
SG: Green – Kirk
SF: JJ – T-Mac
PF: Smoove-Marvin
Center; Zaza-Ivan
Bench; Rad – Stackhouse
I think this way, we get more consistent outside shooting in with the starting lineup (Green in place of Marvin, and get two good bigs in the lineups at any time)
You had me but you lost me. Sitting Willie Green for Marvin Williams is not solving the size problem.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
The size problem really is a problem of bench
What happens now, is that when Zaza and Marvin and Smoove all go to bench, you end up with T-Mac and Rad and Ivan. That lineup is the scary small lineup (Rad plays much smaller than his size).
By moving Marvin to bench to backup Smoove, you have enough rebounding together with Ivan, to give Smoove and Zaza the break they need, and not be totally taken advantage of by other teams.
We give up the height advantage that JJ normally has, but as you see with better teams, they normally defend JJ with their small forward any way. And since Green is balling, he will add the scoring punch with the starting lineup that Marvin brings to table normally. Also this lineup, moves Kirk to shooting guard backup, and lets Teague and Pargo man the point guard rotations which they were doing well together before Kirk comeback.
Too much jump shooting. Not enough transition and always on the wrong side of putback points in the paint. Same story.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
I know the Hawks are on a 3 game skid
But for some reason I reckon we can take Indy at home. They’re backing up after playing Utah, so the Hawks should have fresher legs. If the Hawks can stop the dribble penetration (especially with Collision running the point) they’ll have a go at it. Mind you I thought that we’d get back to winning ways against Phoenix.
Also, the defense of the pick & roll was pretty atrocious against the Suns. I know the Hawks are a better team that what the players have shown in the last 3 games; they just need to improve their ball movement on offense, close out on perimeter shooters on defense and Teague needs to stop being tentative and look to attack the basket (and hopefully players will fill the lanes and crash the offensive boards too).
Ivan Johnson - the new Xavier McDaniel
Im watching the game and 2 plays in Jared Dudley pick and rolls and posts up Teague. Then we need to double.
And Marvin is playing terrible. Hes not skilled enough to make up for Josh Smith being undersized.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

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