Atlanta's Slide Continues With 99-90 Loss To Phoenix
After a great start to the season, the Atlanta Hawks have suddenly hit a bump in the road and with Monday's 99-90 loss to Phoenix, have now dropped three straight all at home. The quality of opponent has improved of late but this Hawks team has hardly competed in those three losses having fallen behind by more than 20 points in each. AJC columnist Jeff Schultz offers up his take on the Hawks current situation:
There are several reasons why this may have happened. The most obvious: Being undersized without two centers, Al Horford (potentially out for the season) and Jason Collins (sidelined for two weeks), has led to physical fatigue, which has led to mental fatigue.
Perhaps this slide is the post-injury hangover that we were expecting right after receiving the news that Al Horford was likely lost for the season. Perhaps Schultz is also right that there is a form of physical and mental fatigue that is starting to set in with the club as well. The problem with that is that this compacted schedule isn't going to offer much relief in the form of off days. It is also important to note that the Hawks aren't the only playoff contender that has hit a bump in the road this season. Teams like Orlando, Denver, Miami, Houston and Memphis have all had difficult times and the schedule is partly to blame for the inconsistent play.
There are other warning signs as well. Josh Smith talked the lack of ball movement before the game and talked about the team's tendency to go one-on-one a little too much (iso). After the game he revisited the topic once again and did not change his stance:
"Like I've been saying, the continuity of our offense and our inability to stop dribble penetration has been a thorn in our side," Josh Smith said. "If we correct those two things, nothing can stop us. You saw on those road games we had high assist totals. These last two or three games, it's been low and the offense has been real stagnant."
In this situation I don't mind Josh saying how he feels because he is right. The movement on offense isn't as crisp and perimeter defense has been bad but he needs to remember that the ball all too often stops with him on the perimeter as well.
In this particular game, Atlanta trailed 27-23 at the end of one and saw the Suns extend the lead in the second quarter. Compounding Atlanta's problems, Jeff Teague picked up his third foul midway through the quarter and he spent the remainder of the half on the bench. Kirk Hinrich replaced Teague and seemed to spark Atlanta's defense somewhat as he got physical with Steve Nash. Atlanta cut the lead to 52-48 with a Joe Johnson. Nash had an answer as he hit a running three-pointer at the buzzer to send the Hawks to the intermission down 55-48.
Atlanta has been plagued for much this season with bad third quarters and that was the case yet again. The Hawks initially pulled to within 60-58 but Phoenix and Nash slammed the door 29-16 in the third quarter to back control of the game. Atlanta's reserves made the final score respectable but this game was over long before the final horn sounded.
Josh Smith led the Hawks with 18 points and also added five boards, three assists and two steals. Joe Johnson added 17 points and three assists. Willie Green helped lead the reserves charge in the fourth scoring 12 of his 14 in the final period. Ivan Johnson added nine points and five rebounds while Marvin Williams finished with eight points and five boards but missed all three of his attempts from distance.
Steve Nash led the way for Phoenix with 24 points and 11 assists. Nash hit 9-12 attempts including 4-4 from three-point range one day before his 38th birthday. Channing Frye added 19 points while Jared Dudley and Michael Redd each added 10.
Atlanta held a slim lead in points in the paint 38-36 but had no answer for the Suns 11 three-pointers made. Phoenix also out rebounded the Hawks 45-35 giving up nine to Channing Frye and seven to rookie Markief Morris off the bench.
Atlanta will try to salvage one game on its current home stand when they host the Indiana Pacers on Wednesday.
For more on the Atlanta Hawks check out SB Nation Atlanta, follow Jason Walker and Kris Willis, along with Peachtree Hoops on Twitter and check out the Peachtree Hoops Facebook Fan Page.
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stunning……good thing 10 day contracts are an option now….
"I'm on 1"
by I am usually right except when... on Feb 7, 2012 9:46 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Honestly
Is anyone they pick up on a 10-day contract really going to make that much of a difference?
@Kris_Willis
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Well, my hope is that Drew would be able to go back to his early rotations of Smith + Rad. NOt perfect but mixed and matched
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 7, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
well
damian wilkins did…ivan johnson wasn’t expected to do anything just 20 games ago, so I’m not ruling that out at all. We shouldn’t be expecting it, but I certainly am not ruling it out.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 7, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Damian was a nice pick up
but I question whether he altered the course of last season’s team. Johnson is a good story so far. I don’t mean to say that there won’t be any impact just that there is a good chance that the contribution will be minimal
@Kris_Willis
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don't confuse
not ruling it out with major contribution. I’m just saying that if the Knicks can get Linsanity to show that just competent PG play can change their season (and the jury is out on how long that lasts), then having a guy who can just hold the middle with something more than the awful offensive contributions that Jason Collins brings, then maybe it elevates the team in a way that we’re not expecting. That said, I haven’t been in panic mode – just need the team we have that’s healthy to play well. We do that and we’re fine.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 8, 2012 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
10 day contracts! It'll be interesting. Im wanting Mikki Moore/Earl Barron.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
Sadly we desperately miss Lion
Lion is the GLUE. He is the clear leader of this Hawks team.
Without Lion, his sacrifices running after perimeter people and defending inside, passing the ball, having no concern for his ego, Hawks will have trouble.
The only way out, is let Ivan get more minutes and don’t jerk Teague.
I wish I had not left early (left end of third quarter) and had seen Pargo and Green play, but I believe they need to go back to that same rotation pre-Kirk. Bring in Kirk for JJ not for Teague.
Bring in Green instead of Rad. Give Green Rad’s 20 minutes.
We need Ivan and Smoove and Zaza and Marvin in at all times. Let them get 6 fouls. Under no circumstances allow Rad to play. It is not rocket science. We got 4 men and a mouse. Why let the mouse play? Why?
I am for pulling Rad until he starts making shots
I don’t see what you are talking about with Teague though. He picked up three fouls in the first half and headed to the bench. Didn’t exactly set the world on fire in the third quarter either.
@Kris_Willis
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Here are the minutes before SA when Kirk came back
Look at the minutes in close games Teague is getting prior to Kirk coming back
Portland 37 minutes
Wolves 42 minutes
Chicago 30 minutes
Miami 47 minutes (in ATL)
Miami 35 minutes
Teague 33 minutes
Now look at games that close or Hawks in trouble after Kirk
SA 29 minutes
Memphis 20 minutes
Detroit 21 minutes
Philly 38 minutes
Sun 28 minutes
Are you telling me that the re-insertion of Kirk has not taken minutes away from Teague?
What effect do you think it has on the fragile psyche of Teague?
What if I am an employee that is already insecure in my work, and here comes my boss, telling me this peer of mine that has many more years of seniority is there to help me, ahh by the way, he’ll take some of my hours, no reason given. Even when i have been performing at high levels, my boss takes hours away from me.
We have seen this scenario before, and normally the coach makes a decision one way or another. Look at the case of Denver last year, With Felton and Ty Lawson. Denver made a decision to go one way and not cause confusion for Lawson. Even though Felton was still balling, their future is Lawson. So they get rid of Felton to allow for no confusion on who is number 1. Teague is insecure, and the reduction in minutes that I am showing above, shows he is being jerked.
I think you are making something out of nothing
Hawks fell behind big in four of those games and Teague was hurt in the Detroit game which you fail to mention.
Joe Johnson played 33 minutes last night and Teague played 28. Teague sat out the last five minutes of the half with three fouls. 28+5 = 33
Josh Smith played just under 30 minutes and wasn’t in foul trouble but Teague played 28 and was.
The Hawks were blown out in San Antonio and emptied the bench. Fell behind by 20 against the Grizzlies, Sixers and Suns and emptied the bench. The starters need to figure out how to quit falling behind by 20 in the second half if they want to play more. This is ridiculous and I shouldn’t have to point this out to you.
@Kris_Willis
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Teague was on his way to 40+ minutes against Detroit
but he turned his ankle which you clearly didn’t mention either.
@Kris_Willis
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Since I have a minute
Joe Johnson minutes
@San Antonio 30:54
@ Detroit 45:43
@ NOH 30:28
@TOR 30:16
Memphis 28:18
Philly 37:17
Phoenix 33:25
He is averaging just under 36 minutes a game and hit that mark only twice in the previous seven games
@Kris_Willis
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Funny how the losing streak and start of bad play coincided with Kirk coming back
Don’t you think?
Don’t get me wrong, Kirk is a valuable player. But he is not fit.
I see it clearly in his defense. Whereas his defense on the outside is normally a strength, any fast point guard is getting by him.
I don’t see the reason in playing him when he is in that type of shape, to the extent he is playing.
Honestly no, I don't see any relation to the two things.
@Kris_Willis
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I don't think you're giving JT nearly enough credit
One, this is a long, compact season. No reason to run the kid to death. Previous seasons have made you seriously paranoid. JT’s rotation has been really stable lately – the games where his minutes have been down have been injury, foul trouble, or blow-out games one way or the other. Would you seriously be happy to have JT come back in for the final 8-9 minutes of the 4th in a blowout game? Or would you be worried that LD’s insulting him by treating him like a scrub?
Two, if JT is so fragile that the team must have a really crappy backup in order for him to keep up his confidence, it’s going to be a problem. LD has said the job is his. Teammates have said the job is his. Kirk told him not to worry about anything, just to go out and play well. Were I him, I’d be totally insulted by your comments.
I shared the minutes and the change in trends to back my perspective
An unfit Kirk has been playing minutes that Teague should be.
Not only that, I say Pargo should be getting minutes too that an unfit Kirk is getting.
I get it though, let’s lose and let Kirk get fit. If I trusted LD, I may believe his talk. It all comes down to trust. He has shown me nothing in showing his dislike of slashers and attacking players. He much prefer jump shooters, and I see the trends even with Rad.
Sad thing is, Kirk and Rad are not even hitting their jump shots
Kirk has shot like crap, with the exception of the first game.
Kris responded to you on JT’s minutes. You are acting like JT has been intentionally benched, when there is a logical in-game explanation for his minutes.
Seriously, do you want him on the floor with scrubs in a blowout, just to up his minutes? Should he be on the floor with a rolled ankle, in case he’s feeling insecure? Should the team never have a competent PG backup so his psyche isn’t damaged? There is nothing about Kirk getting 20 minutes (4 of which were with JT on the floor, by the way) in a backup role that should be threatening to JT.
Whether those minutes should go someplace else is a separate issue. Saying the “PG of the future” has a “fragile psyche” is a problem to me.
Let me ask a general question relative to his "fragile psyche"
Which 22 year old do you know that has not been allowed to do his job for 2 years because of fear of failure, that that behavior does not affect?
Which 22 year old do you know that has been put on a short leash and as soon as he makes a mistake for one full year, has been pulled by this same coach, in favor of a “has been” player (Bibby)?
Which 22 year old do you know, that is not then affected by that pattern of behavior and is not afraid to do his normal routine because of fear of failure.
If you show me that 22 year old, I show you superman or super woman.
Point being, past pattern of behavior has seeded in Teague’s mind doubt and uncertainty relative to his role with the team, with a veteran point guard behind him. Same vet point guard who the same coach placed ahead of him prior to injury last year.
I gave example of Denver, to prove to you how to handle a young point guard.
Let’s not go far though, since I know you are a Kirk fan.
You can not deny the fact that Rose and Kirk in same backcourt, did not cause confusion relative to roles and playing time.
You can not deny the fact that Wall and Kirk in the same backcourt, did not cause confusion relative to roles and playing time.
In those cases, the management made a strategic decision to build on future.
In our case, the same need be applied. The examples are out there,.
Trust me, a part of me really feels for your position, because if it is the same thing relative to Lion and Smoove, I behave irrationally also.
by ATLpaul on Feb 7, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ATLPaul I think you quoted the wrong games lol.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/teaguje01/gamelog/2012/
He went from
41:26 in Milwaukee to
29:23 the next game in a San Antonio Loss. He went 9 for 13 and only played 29 minutes.
And Now LD has Kirk playing with the starters against Phoenix. I got no clue whats going on, but Teague’s leash just got a lot shorter.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 7, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Seeing what you expect to see?
Against the Suns, JT played 14:55 in the full starting lineup, and a total of 23:30 with at least 3 other starters out there. That leaves a whopping 4:25 of his PT that he wasn’t out there with essentially the starting lineup. Interesting enough, JT played most of that 4:25 with Kirk on the floor.
Kirk on the other hand? 3:09 with the other starters in place of JT, another 4:09 with 3 starters and another guy off the bench. And this is your evidence that JT is being jerked around? 28 minutes in a blowout loss, in a game where he had foul trouble, by far most of which was on the court with other starters?
Had the team not been blown out in the SA loss, meaning the starters finished the 4th quarter, JT would have played 34:54. Would you object to his average minutes for the remainder of the season falling right around 35? Because if you have a problem with that in a shortened, compressed season, I think you’re a little crazy.
Or perhaps you expect LD to leave JT out there with 4 end of bench guys, to make sure those minutes are in? Every other starter is on the bench, but JT is out there in garbage time, wearing down and risking injury? I suspect people would have been all over LD for “disrespecting” him by leaving him in.
the image is cut off but right click and press "view image" to see defensive rating. Kirk's pace is too slow and his accuracy is off. He;s not getting it done

sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
it doesnt surprise me. Kirk is a "cult hero" but hes hurting the team. period. And Josh Smith still shot the highest TS%.
Only because Channing Frye is so bad at holding position in the post.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
For the last time, this really and truly has nothing to do with Kirk
This is about the whole “Is JT getting screwed again?” and “Must we keep his fragile psyche in mind with every decision?”
I’m not blind or an idiot. Kirk is playing like crap. If you want to talk about what helps the team win at present, it’s not playing Kirk. But there are reasons to play a guy some minutes that have nothing to do with him being the best option in those minutes. Whichever side of that argument you come down on, I acknowledge the legitimacy of both positions.
At the point you start twisting this around to hurting JT’s ego and confidence, or imagining that JT is not playing big, consistent, starting minutes, you’ve crossed the line into persecution complex territory.
I was talking about Pargo.
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
The coaching problem and the whole save the player till end of game is not limited to Teague
I have that same problem when he takes Smoove or Zaza out.
And we then give up leads to other teams, and end games with players with only 2-4 fouls. Who are we saving the fouls for? Next game? Someone please tell LD, that saved fouls don’t carry from game to game.
Listen, Teague is in shape to play 35-40 minutes. He is young and a stud. I think the issue really as I stated in another post, is to change starting lineup.
Point Guard: Teague – Pargo
Shooting Guard: Green- Kirk
SF: JJ – T-Mac
PF: Smoove – Marvin
Center: Zaza – Ivan
This way playing time and rotations get better distributed.
I am ok being called crazy, as long as we get out of this funk
I also hate the 2 foul rule
I have no issue with him taking someone out in the 2nd who has picked up a third foul.
And, considering it is a teamwide issue – it has even less to do with JT’s supposedly fragile mental state and supposed screwing out of PT.
You still have not presented me with another 22 year old that can be jerked around
And not have a “fragile psyche”
The point remains.
Young players must get playing time and not get jerked around.
I give you another example, number 2 pick in Minnesota. He is a very talented young player not getting minutes. He is not yet showing up because he is jerked around.
The world is full of those examples, because in 99% of the time (see there is that 1% who may be able to take injustice and still perform) young kids perform that way.
Another example that I can think of, Collison, point guard of Pacers. Before being traded to Pacers, was hardly getting time. No one knew him. Then CP3 got injured. And wow, he balled. Everyone’s eyes opened. And Pacers wanted him. And tonight, you will see how good a point guard he is. No different than the case of our own Jeff Teague.
smallball is not the answer
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 8, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Once again, this has nothing to do with Kirk playing or not
There are many, many examples in sports of kids waiting their turn and being on a tight leash. This is strictly about this continued “JT and his fragile psyche” thing. I am saying that his psyche isn’t that fragile, and that you do him a disservice by pretending it is. He doesn’t need wrapped in bubble wrap and protected from the harsh realities of the world. He has the starting job, he’s mostly played really well, and I firmly believe he’s capable of continuing to play well regardless of who’s behind him.
On the other hand – if you are right, and he does have this fragile little psyche, it’s a huge mistake to count on him for the future. I happen to think you’re wrong, that JT is perfectly capable of understanding why he’s on the bench for a 6 minute breather, that he completely understands why neither he nor any other starter is on the floor in the last 6 minutes of a blowout, and that he has plenty of confidence to not be distressed over continuing to start and play the bulk of the minutes. You think I’m being irrational over Kirk? I think you’re being completely irrational about needing to factor this supposedly fragile mental state of JT into PT decisions.
Teague is playing the same minutes!!!
You aren’t complaining about Joe’s minutes declining. What about Josh’s? Its the same thing. Makes no sense whatsoever.
@Kris_Willis
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Kris you're arguing with a wall here
no use in wasting brain cells over it
Ivan and Smoove and Zaza and Marvin in at all times. in a compressed season? yet Green gets 20 minutes? lot of mumbo talk,
Horford was best at man to man to defense and Leading the break from the center position. Its hard to win with only 1 healthy center.
And Horford is not the clear leader of the team. You’ve gone overboard, come back to us. :D
Gearon said he doesn’t mean to take anything away from Hawks All-Star guard Joe Johnson, who had a game-high 27 points against Milwaukee and averaged a team-high 21.3 points during the regular season. And one presumes he also doesn’t mean to take anything away from Atlanta’s other All-Star from last February, center Al Horford, when Gearon says Smith "deserved to be on the All-Star team as much as anybody on our team.’’
There’s no disagreement from Horford.
“When Josh plays like that, we’re at our best’’ Horford said after Tuesday’s game. "We’re going to go as far (in the playoffs) as Josh Smith takes us.’’
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 7, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
What do you expect Horford to say?
That he is the man and this team is going nowhere without him? Seriously
@Kris_Willis
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I just want to win
I see no way we win with Rad.
The last year of Mike Woodson, we had mostly 7 players that we relied on. He won 53.
I know this is going to put pressure on Marvin and Smoove and Zaza and IVan, with some sprinkling of Green and T-Mac, but I don’t see a way around it with no center.
I just don’t want to see Rad in the lineups any more. As soon as he comes in, we lose leads.
Mike Woodson also didn't have to contend with this schedule
and that team was completely spent by the time it got to the playoffs
@Kris_Willis
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I think it had more to do with bad match-ups with too deep an Orlando team
And the fact he was not wanting to do the muscleman strategy one on one. I don’t think it was exhaustion.
I get your point about the schedule. That is a valid point.
But I am concerned at this rate things are not looking good. I mean now Celtics are balling. And if NY pulls a trade for a point guard….
Did larry Drew learn anything when we had bibby and crawford
Other teams would attack our defensive weak pg relentlessly, why cant we do it to them? Its so simple
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.

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