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Atlanta Drops Second Straight At Home 98-87 To Philadelphia

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A lapse at the end of the second quarter proved costly for the Atlanta Hawks who fell to the Philadelphia 76ers by a score of 98-87 at Philips Arena on Saturday night. Atlanta has struggled since returning home from a five-game road trip that saw them go 4-1. The Hawks have lost the first two games of a four-game home stand and will be trying to get things turned around on Monday when they host the Suns.

Atlanta essentially played to a first quarter draw taking a 21-20 lead over Philadelphia. The lead seesawed back and fourth in the second until the Sixers closed the half on a 26-11 run that was fueled by turnovers and stagnant play at both ends of the floor.

Lets be clear now, despite making a concerted comeback attempt we have yet to see in the last eight quarters of basketball that crisp play that we saw for most of the road trip. There are several reasons why in my opinion and none necessarily involve Atlanta's lack of depth at the center position. If the Hawks thought they could get 14 points and 13 rebounds out of Ivan Johnson on a regular basis then that situation wouldn't look nearly as bleak as it does currently. It is important to remember that the Hawks have had center issues since Al Horford went down. Yes losing Jason Collins takes what little depth away that they had but he has been getting DNP-CD even after Al went out and Ivan has been playing backup minutes regardless.

In the last two losses Atlanta hasn't appeared to move the basketball anywhere near the fluidity that they did on the road trip and the result has been turnovers that have led to transition buckets. For the first time all season it looked like Saturday that the frustrations on the offensive end led to defensive breakdowns especially in transition defense where Philly found some open three-point looks simply by pushing the ball up the court.

The offensive numbers are still respectable with 43 percent shooting and 20 assists on 32 made baskets. Atlanta even built a 47-37 rebounding advantage but the easy baskets off of turnovers and a lacking defensive effort on the perimeter led to another huge 54-38 deficit in points in the paint.

Simply put Atlanta's offensive struggles has put their defense in a bind the last two games and the fact is that the Hawks need Joe Johnson or Josh Smith to play well and many nights need both of them without Al Horford. Smith has struggled with his shot of late and has only hit half of his shots in one of his last six games. He was 2-11 for nine points on Saturday although he did finish with 10 rebounds, five assists and seven blocked shots.

Without Smith or anyone else finding a rhythm offensively, opposing teams are going to load up on Joe Johnson. Andre Iguodala provides a tough matchup at any rate for Johnson who finished with 16 points on 7-16 shooting. Atlanta got virtually nothing from Zaza Pachulia and Marvin Williams was semi-productive in just 20 minutes of action.

Jeff Teague did a lot of his damage in the second half finishing with 21 points and six assists but Atlanta is a much better team when he is dictating things early on. Still it was nice to see him make a charge in the second half and hopefully he can carry that over on Monday.

For the most part, Atlanta's bench has played well together for stretches but they pale in comparison to what Philadelphia can run out there. Saturday night the Sixers played four guys off the bench and all four finished in double figures. Nikola Vucevic led the way with 15 points off the bench while Thaddeus Young and Louis Williams each added 14. Evan Turner scored 11 points although three came a ridiculous play where he was throwing a lob inside during Philadelphia's second quarter run. Combined Philly's bench scored 54 points, grabbed 14 rebounds, handed out 13 assists while turning the ball over only two times.

I haven't even mentioned Spencer Hawes' 14 points in his return from injury, Jodie Meeks 10 points and five steals or Andre Iguodala's nine points, eight rebounds and 10 assists as starters. Doug Collins' squad is one deep team that doesn't figure to be an easy out once the playoffs roll around.

Atlanta is in a rough stretch right now and have another long road trip looming. They may in fact get some reinforcements for their front court soon but the reality is that they have to get back to doing the things that have made them a successful team. That means crisp ball movement as well as a relentless effort on the defensive end of the floor. A rough stretch was inevitable for this club and now it is important to see how they respond and if they can get back to doing the things that made them successful.

For more on the Atlanta Hawks check out SB Nation Atlanta, follow Jason Walker and Kris Willis, along with Peachtree Hoops on Twitter and check out the Peachtree Hoops Facebook Fan Page.

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Have to milk mismatches

If the Sixers are going to guard Marvin Williams with a guard then you have to feed him in the post. Its mind-boggling that Atlanta has yet to take advantage of such an obvious advantage. I can guarantee its a different result If Atlanta does this.

by Jonesy24 on Feb 5, 2012 3:08 PM EST reply actions  

Also Kirk Heinrich

Wont be this bad for the rest of the season, once he gets into game shape Lou Williams wont be having his way with him on the second unit…

by Jonesy24 on Feb 5, 2012 3:14 PM EST reply actions  

how long does game shape take

just need to know when to stop using that excuse?

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 5, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point

More hope that hes just out of shape, because he’s been awful this season, and this team needs everybody playing their best. And if this is the best Heinrich has then ATL is in big trouble.

by Jonesy24 on Feb 5, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

The reality: the Philadelphia 76ers are better than us and a top 3 team in the East.

- They are incredibly deep. Probably the deepest team in the league. Doug Collins utilizes that depth by continuing to switch players in and out and keeping guys fresh.
- They have 8 legit scorers. If one guy isn’t getting his they have a lot of options to get points elsewhere
- I believe using their depth allows them to be better defensively. Their players can use their energy to play physical, hard nosed defense.
- They are also very young. They are going to be a force for a while in the league. Besides Brand they are looking good for the future.

by BravesFanScout on Feb 5, 2012 3:30 PM EST reply actions  

Perhaps

and without Al Horford they may be better than the Hawks right now. But Josh Smith isnt going to go 0-12 against the Sixers every time he plays them. and the Hawks will take advantage of the mismatch they have when Marvin Williams on the floor if they meet in the playoffs.

by Jonesy24 on Feb 5, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

They will?

Well I don’t know why they wouldn’t take advantage of that mismatch last night. I guess you’ve got more inside knowledge of the Hawks strategies than I. I guess the Hawks are baiting the 76ers for the playoffs? IDK.

Josh will go 0-12 if he hangs on the outside shooting jumpers most of the game. He’s got to attack the rim.

by BravesFanScout on Feb 5, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Josh Smith can only get to the rim in certain situations. And bigger PFs are able to stay in front of him. in theory he would be better attacking smaller forwards off the dribble,

If Smith is taking these tough shots all day then we’re probably losing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99_ddVTvXmw

Smith should have been from day one the small forward.
We can actually run plays inside against smaller players.

* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 5, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

A very depressing game

The 3 straight plays where different Hawks got their dribbles picked off, the Josh Smith airball jump hooks, the effort kicking in too late to really matter, and their 2 young centers shooting around 70% from the field. It was just all depressing. BTW, Josh was 1-6 around the lane. It wasn’t all shot selection. It was just a bad night.

I also agree with the initial comment. If a team uses their SF on Joe then we have to keep going to Marvin until they make a tough choice. We tried to get it to Marvin a couple times and each time Meeks fouled. We should have kept that going or spread the floor even more with Marvin on the block so Teague would have room to penetrate and the penetration would make the entry pass to Marvin easier. Every time Marvin went to his normal spot up location it made it easier for the Sixers to defend Joe. Marvin’s usage should go up when Joe has a tough matchup. That’s a coaching adjustment and I see very few of them coming from Larry Drew.

by Evil Dallas on Feb 5, 2012 4:25 PM EST reply actions  

How can Atlanta's center play not be reason for Sixers winning?

54 points in the paint.
After Memphis scored 56 in the paint.
Does defense in center position not count for anything?

And we allowed their centers to look super. Hawes 7-11 and Vucevic 7-10. Together they scored 29 points. And they were both out for a period of time right before this game with injury. To Hawks 18 at center position. But I guess center position is all good even while we play matador defense!!!!!!!!

Don’t take my statements to mean Ivan did not play well. He did. He showed heart all the way. But he simply can not stop the centers of other teams.

On the other hand, when Lion is back, with Smoove and a seven footer and Ivan, that is a killer rotation.

Now I am not really upset. This is a game I was worried about and had it in the loss column. It is the Memphis game I didn’t think we should lose. But as is, without Lion, I just don’t see us being able to stop Sixers. Sixers are a very good team, no question about it. And that was with them even missing a big piece and on second night of a back to back after a tough game vs. Heat.

LD seems infatuated with Kirk. So play him even though he is not in playing shape. And taking Marvin out and playing him 20 minutes compared to Rad’s 20 just makes no sense. Coaching is not helping. When is LD going to realize Teague > Kirk, and Marvin > Rad. Those two should be getting 35-40 minutes each game.

On other news, not sure any one noticed, but the Kiss cam thing in first half, when someone proposed a marriage to his girlfriend and got on his knees when Kiss Cam showed him was cool. It was well orchestrated and got a standing O.

Things are not going to get easier with Pacers coming to town after the Suns.

We need a center desperately and we need Jeff Van Gundy

by ATLpaul on Feb 5, 2012 7:53 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

The center play did matter

But you are too fixated on this. Zaza sucked last night. Period. Ivan played well and then, when he left and the starter came on – the play dropped off. So, yes – it mattered that we didn’t have production from the center position, but it also mattered that the PF and the SG didn’t play well and that the SF was on the bench. So, I just want to say that – if you watched the game, the centers weren’t backing cats down and dominating the middle – they were making jumpers all day. Tough ones at that. So, it was just Philly’s night. So, when Ivan was in the game – he was not getting dominated inside by either guy. It doesn’t refute your point about needing to have a center and to have them perform, but the Hawks just were beaten by a better team and if yo uwatch most of the games – Al wouldn’t have shut those guys down.

Anyway, we need Joe and Josh to play better than we need a backup center to play the Vucevic’s of the world. Now, if you want me to agree with something, then it’s that we need someone better than Collins regardless of whether Al is healthy or not. That I agree with and I absolutely agree that Van Gundy > Nancy Drew > Larry Drew.

But don’t worry much about Kirk getting in game shape – it has to happen, we have to live with the PT…it’s the thing you have to do to get players ready for the postseason and rotation. Plus, the sooner he’s playing better – the easier he is to trade.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 5, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Who is this 7 footer? Yea, hed probably be great alongside horford and smith, but does he exist on the market and at a price we can afford? Good 7 footers are rare, if they weren’t, every team would have one, including us. A 7 footer would be amazing, but ill take a 6"10 guy with alot of heart and a good basketball iq over a few extra inches everyday…not sure if that exists right now either though.
New ownership, plus van gundy, plus amnesty jj= d12. Just figured id mention it since were all a little quixotic in als absence:)

by bravesfanldh on Feb 5, 2012 11:45 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

The Amnesty idea doesn't free up enough cap room to sign D12

Just saying. We’re over the cap already for next season. Joe’s salary for next year equals Dwight’s starting salary so we’d have to be under the cap with Joe for the amnesty more to make up enough room for a max deal. Your daydream needs to make another move or two to clear cap.

by Evil Dallas on Feb 6, 2012 2:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Did you..

Add in kirks expiring contract?

by bravesfanldh on Feb 6, 2012 12:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I only got to catch the second half, but I totally agree that the Hawks got beaten by a better team on the night

aajosh having a terrible night offensively didn’t help matters. And I can understand that if JJ was being defended by Iguodala, he’d have to resort to launching outside J’s as he wouldn’t have had an advantage on the low block. He did end up shooting 7-16 from the field, which wasn’t horrible. As you stated, Philly hit some tough shots down the stretch which just didn’t allow us to get back into the game. We’d need both JJ and Josh to fire offensively and Zaza to be a bit tougher in the middle, but this team (even without Al in the line-up) could beat the 76ers.

Ivan Johnson - the new Xavier McDaniel

by Nique Fan on Feb 6, 2012 6:16 AM EST up reply actions  

JJ and Smoove

See I don’t worry too much about those two.

JJ was defended by Iggy. He is the best wing defender in the world. It is the reason best minds of US basketball pick him for international competition to defend the best Euro-trash outside shooters and stop them. Thats what he does. And no Iggy is not over-rated, which was the silly chant by the ever energetic Hawks cheering squad. (please don’t talk about Memphis game, I am trying to forget that).

As for Smoove, you see I am ok with him doing what he do. I know he does things we all not want him to do. Like those jumpers. But – he compensates for in other ways. He is an all star. And just like that new movie (In Time) he has accumulated enough credit to last a lifetime with us Hawks fans. See I know people get upset like this chunky guy that normally sits in front of me whenhe sees Smoove dribble the ball up-court and screams Josh pass the ball, you are no point guard. But most of us just kind of look at him and ignore him, we are desensitized to Smoove dribbling the ball up-court and take him in his totality. Come to think of it, that chunky guy attitude reminds me of fellow blogger on this site whose name rhymes with x-heavy weight boxer that sells cheap stove-top grills on TV!

Any way you get my drift about JJ and Smoove, I aint worried about them two.

Final note: Against Pacers (Granger), Lakers (Artest), Cows (Deng) Heat (Lebron) you’ll see same struggles by JJ

by ATLpaul on Feb 6, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

You should

you should definitely worry about those things. I’m interested in how you watched Josh play great for a stretch and play terrible for a stretch and then said – don’t worry about that. You can’t allow your ‘All Star’ to take off for stretches and chalk it up to – that’s just what he does. I think LeBron is the best bball player of this era, but I don’t let him off the hook because he’s awesome for 46 minutes – he has to get better in the clutch (actually he has to return to how good he was in the clutch prior to these last 2-3 years – our microwave society forgot how ridiculous LBJ was in the playoffs prior to his last 2 years in Cleveland). So, I’m not letting Josh off the hook. I’ve been saying to you that this regression to the mean was going to occur. Your comment then was – he’s not bad at shooting the ball from outside, you gave me all kinds of stats. Now, go back to those stats – he’s back to 33% shooting outside and 69% shooting at the rim – those figures are about 7% below average for the league and 7% above for the league, respectively.

You want to know why Josh won’t be in the All Star game – that’s why. And we need to worry about it because these habits won’t just disappear come playoff time. We shouldn’t just accept that when Joe plays tougher Ds that he’s going to struggle. He’s supposed to be at the very least good to very good and those players should be able to either create offense from the double team or attack a defender. No one is asking him to go for 30 vs. Iggy, but he should be able to get assists and provide about 15-20 no matter who he plays, so I reject the notion that I should expect JJ to struggle this month – if it happens, it’s not because of Granger, Artest, etc.

So, I know you REALLY want a center. You’ve made it abundantly clear, but a center is not going to make Josh shoot better and it’s not going to solve JJ on a wing defender, so I just want to create consistency in your arguments. I’m concerned about these things whether we have a center or not because if JJ and Josh aren’t playing at a high level – we could have every center save Bynum and Howard and still not win playoff games. Then, would your fulfilled request for a center matter? Center is not the final holy grail for this team…fulfilling Josh, Marvin, and Jeff Teague’s potential is more important than getting a functional big man. Getting Joe to continue to play lights out and getting Al healthy are all more important than that too..

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 6, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I share with you a secret

While I agree with you on what you say about Smoove habits, I still like him.

I am willing to watch him and JJ and Lion and Teague and pay. What I am not ready for, is to punish him by making him lose those habits by taking him out. Is it better he doesn’t dribble the ball up the court? Absolutely. Am I ready for him to sit so he learns a lesson? May be in segments. But that is it. I am not going to pay to watch Rad in his place. ok may be I am not a good parent, but my kids disagree. I must see Smoove play, pure and simple! I think if we get a good coach may be he can get through, but trust me, you will have a revolution if you try to sit Smoove down, and count me as one of the ones that will riot. ASG gets that and so does LD. So I am not sure how to get through to him as you state.

JJ is a pro, I don’t worry about him

by ATLpaul on Feb 6, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

This is why the Hawks won't get better

So, those of us who want a title have to watch Josh not learn because you paid for a ticket. I hear you – and I go a step further. I love Josh – just not at 20ft, just not dribbling up the court. I’m willing to suck up about 10-15 games and 10 minutes a game to show Josh that this is how you play and we’re not going to lose because of it. So, guess what – if that doesn’t get through, then fine – we can trade Josh and keep Al. It’s that simple to me. I’m trying to win titles. I bet you that your kids will have much more fun cheering at that ticker tape parade than they ever did watching Smoove during those regular season games.

So, have your revolution…but I’m not worried about a riot. Only one player ever deserved a riot and he got one and that’s Nique. Josh ain’t Nique…let’s win this title

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 6, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't mean to imply that it didn't matter

Only it isn’t as big of a deal as everyone is making it out to be. Personally I feel like the perimeter defense has really been lacking over the last two games and the Hawks haven’t done a good job of cutting off dribble penetration.

@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis

by Kris Willis on Feb 6, 2012 8:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with the perimeter D issues

See my notes about Teague and Marvin playing times.

We desperately need size

by ATLpaul on Feb 6, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

well

I’m going with we desperately need the guys who are playing to play better and the coach to coach better. Then, I’ll begin to agree with the desperately need size issue. Again, I don’t disagree that to win a title – we need size, but to win regular season basketball games even against good competition – it’s not a desperate need.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 6, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll go with coaching and playing. We have 2 captains, at some point someone needs to take control of the offense and go to what works.

A lot of times the offense is way too predictable. Dribble Dribble Dribble clock winds down teams leave Josh open and live with the result.

In the interim. We need to Play 2 man Pick and roll that Clippers run so often with Blake. He cant shoot so have him roll to basket and space 3 guys weakside for open shots, dives etc.
Try to drive over top and then drop off the pass shoot yourself or Swing the ball to open man from there. Have Marvin in the opposite corner #Iknowbrokenrecord

* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Troy Murphy * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 6, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you watch the game last night?

Smoove and IVan tried to take it inside and were getting killed.
Yes we need size to win. I don’t know what games you are watching.

Coaching and size are killing us.

by ATLpaul on Feb 7, 2012 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep

So, how did we win those other games without Al? Is it your position that Jason Collins was the key? I was at the game and I saw Josh score at the rim when he shot there and I saw him miss when he shot outside. Yes, Ivan had problems at the rim, but you miss the point I continue to make – WHEN THE TEAM plays well and are only getting dominated inside, we can have this discussion. Joe didn’t play well, Teague didn’t play well, Marvin didn’t play well, Zaza didn’t play well and that didn’t have squat to do with not having Al. T-Mc didn’t have it. V-Rad couldn’t put an open shot into the ocean. Last night, it wasn’t even coaching that was the problem – the guys didn’t bring it. So, with all that going on, you say to me – what game am I watching and its size. That’s all you saw…if that’s all you saw, then it’s just an agenda that you have to communicate. I said that size is a factor, it’s something we need to address, but it’s not the reason for every loss.

It wasn’t last night – Steve Nash was more of a reason that size.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 7, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Ivan should start

or should I say, get starter minutes

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 6, 2012 12:47 PM EST reply actions  

Not necessarily

Not if Zaza is performing. Let who is playing well dictate how many minutes each gets

@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis

by Kris Willis on Feb 6, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

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