Marvin Williams Denies That He Made Trade Request
by Kris Willis on Feb 22, 2012 7:00 AM EST
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Earlier today it was reported that Hawks small forward Marvin Williams was unhappy with his role with the Hawks and had requested a trade from the team. Later this afternoon, Williams denied making such a claim and is expected to be in uniform Wednesday night when the Hawks conclude their road trip against the New York Knicks.
The #Hawks just landed in NYC and had a convo with a very disappointed Marvin Williams, who while attending the funeral of a family friend, had to hear about his "reported" trade request. He vehemently denies ever asking for a trade and said, "you know that's not me."
Such is the perils of rumor spiraling out of control. I will stop short of saying that Broussard's report was unsubstantiated but if you carefully read it then you will see that it is only saying that Williams is unhappy with his role in Atlanta and may want a change of scenery. Nowhere did it say that he formally requested a trade or that anything was imminent.
Sure it is possible that this is a case of damage control by the Hawks. Its possible but given the people involved I don't believe that to be the case. Marvin has had plenty of opportunities to complain and many of us wouldn't blame him if he did so. However, that has never been his style or his reputation to do such.
The original report also mentions Kirk Hinrich and how some in Atlanta feel that his return has somehow hurt a Hawks team that was playing well. That is a discussion that has been played out here at Peachtree Hoops in many discussions as well as at the AJC and it is very possible that the rumor originated from those places.
For more on the Atlanta Hawks check out SB Nation Atlanta, follow Jason Walker and Kris Willis, along with Peachtree Hoops on Twitter and check out the Peachtree Hoops Facebook Fan Page.
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we need size
the Laker loss, the Trailblazer loss it was so clear this team is small. even with Al coming back we are just to small.
by Cmart34 on Feb 22, 2012 7:56 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, we did also beat the Blazers this season.
And out-rebounded them in that game, so it isn’t always a problem. The effort most certainly is.
Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl Google+: Ed G
To be fair Marcus Camby missed the game in which we won and Kurt Thomas+Craig Smith played close to a combined 48 minutes.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
to be fair Horford is out for the season
Ivan Johnson doesn't cut his grass, he stares at it and dares it to grow.......
thank you
This size thing is aggravating to me. We have had the same size issue for going on 3-4 years now and we have been in the top half of the Eastern Conference with it. So, yes – we had Al. Without Al, we were regular season fine. We’re still regular season fine. Do we need to get all our players back on the court? Yes, but with that (and even without Al) – we don’t need to make a move based on these last few games. We do need to get a quality big in here to make a significant move for a title, but that has been true for 3-4 years – the calls about size as if we’re in a panic about it now. Not buying it.
Not when Jeff, Joe, Josh, and much of the bench not named Willie Green have been slumping during this last 10 game skid. Get those guys playing well again and we are regular season fine…we’re not beating about 3-4 teams as constructed, which is why you hope Al makes it back, but seriously you can have size and end up out-rebounded or beat on the inside because you don’t provide effort. This team certainly has demonstrated over the years that we can not provide effort and get dominated. This team never should be losing games by 20 and 30 pts no matter who we put out there…there’s too much talent for that…
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 22, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Rebounding is just one problem
Protecting the basket is the other problem.
So while you can make an argument that size by itself does not mean better rebounding necessarily (even though in most cases a big man can certainly do a better job of rebounding that 6-9 forwards), the other virtue of size is intimidation and acting as a goalkeeper for the basket.
Most teams are attacking the basket with the Hawks. It is not just fighting other centers, but defending the basket from wings. Yes Smoove does a fine job of that, but you put all your eggs in Smoove’s basket for everything. And he needs help.
We have other issues (coaching is prime), but the other main problem with Hawks is lack of big men that are alive, which means Hawks can be attacked inside and taken advantage of. That issue does not go away with return of Lion.
We have had a protecting the basket problem for the last 3-4 years also
It wasn’t as apparent because we also had no perimeter defenders
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by Kris Willis on Feb 22, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Well said - rolling on the floor
Which is why I have wanted a big man even pre-Lion injury
by ATLpaul on Feb 22, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That was my point
we have been clamoring for a rim protector probably since Deke was here? Maybe Theo? Losing Horford just magnified things
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by Kris Willis on Feb 22, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ok
So, again – you don’t address my point – how do we win any games then? Yes, we have weaknesses, though we have played better defense this year with and without Al than any other season for the past 3 years. I agree that protecting the paint is a concern without Al, but having an alive big man doesn’t always address that. None of those guys in Portland or Philly who you think are big that we need protect the paint. Teams are not dominating us offensively. We aren’t scoring the ball at all right now. I’d say that that is a big problem since we don’t have low post scoring, but alas – we haven’t ever had that, so that doesn’t mean anything either.
So, again – I hear you, been hearing you and I still don’t think that has an appreciable effect on the last 10 games. We are losing because we aren’t playing well. Period.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 22, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I believe Portland has paint protectors: Camby
And LeMarcus is big.
Also, Sixers got two legit seven footers playing us last game.
We win because we have combination of good players. So against many teams we should win. I had Hawks ranked seventh in the East beginning of season (pre Lion injury, and pre knowing what the bench is). That means I figured they win enough games to make playoffs, and then exit in the first round. As a reminder, I also had them at 35-31 record. Hawks as they are playing now, is difficult to watch, though I say they get better in March.
It is a chicken and Egg syndrome, we are not playing well, because we are facing better teams. And we are not playing well, because we are running against size. See how they are connected????
by ATLpaul on Feb 22, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Philly has two seven footers
but I am going to stop short of calling them legit. Would you want Hawes starting here for 82 games?
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by Kris Willis on Feb 22, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
UGH
let me think about this
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by Kris Willis on Feb 22, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
When Boston won their championship
they didn’t have superior size or atheleticisim
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
well said - but
They had 3 HOFamers. Do we have one? And they had a league MVP. And they had all time 3 point shooter. And they had a point who is simply magical. and they have Mr clutch Paul Pierce (another first name sounding player !!!)
I mean I get it. You could come back and tell me how about Miami? But to do as well with no live body in center, you need brilliant players in other positions. And even with Miami, Bosh is long, and Anthony is an alive center. Zaza is alive, but he is not starting center
yes if you have that level talent
But that is not a basketball team’s model. The model is to have big men defend the basket. I am old fashioned and I build my team the old fashioned way, as opposed to hoping that I get lucky and find 3 hall of famers or a Lebron.
I mean look at OKC. As much talent as they had, they went after Perkins to fight Laker size with size.
ugh
Kevin Garnett is a 7 foot athletic man with small forward talent. If he was 6’8 he’d be a small forward, he’d rebound less. He’d block less shots and combined with his age Boston would have never traded for him.
And as Kris mentioned Perkins had size and was a good tandem with Garnett.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
THIS is what drives me insane
you got all these corollaries and amendments. My point has simply been – if you have good players that trumps a lot of this need for simply SIZE. I’ve repeated the same point. So, tonight – we could have needed size, but guess what we needed more – to not turn the ball over 25 times. When we lost to Chicago twice and Miami once, what did we need to do more – MAKE FREE throws. So, yes – we can use some size, but it’s not even the #1 thing this team needs. The #1 thing this team needs is mental toughness, leadership, and better coaching. Those things would make an enormous difference. Without signing one more player or having Al back…it doesn’t change the point. It just means that our team has talent and if could get on the same page and add those things – our team would be 24-9 at a minimum right now.
So, stop changing the rules on this or Josh’s jumpers – to me, either you live with the jumpers or you eliminate them. I say eliminate, you say live with. That’s where we differ :)
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 23, 2012 2:48 AM EST up reply actions
Our team has what talent? I wont speak for ATLpaul but I'm going with the Larry Brown philosophy.
You see a weakness and attack it.
He never went small. Always big big big.
It is ideal to want and have capable post players and offensive rebounding. Al isnt coming back for a while and we still need to win games.
Williams’ is a natural small forward who can disguise himself as a power forward if you have a great point guard that can run the fast break (WHOOPS). However, in a conventional offense like Atlanta’s, he’s going to be a 3. Now, because he’s at the 3, another highly paid natural small forward like Josh Smith has to play big at the power forward spot. This bumps Al Horford, a natural power forward, to the center position. So now you have an undersized lineup with 2 of your best players out of their natural spots. Congrats, Marvin. Your existence has effed up the Hawks’ universe.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 23, 2012 3:40 AM EST up reply actions
They did have Perkins though
who didn’t care if he had the ball and played solid defensively
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by Kris Willis on Feb 22, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Hawes could be guarded by elite 4s. He played some 4 against us. Vucevic is the one we'd want.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Let me guess? His wingspan is longer?
Forget who is the better basketball player
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Hawes is an easier matchup to defend. I give him the edge in nifty backdoor passes and to a degree a speed edge
I give the physicality, offensive putbacks, lowpost scoring and tip outs edge to Vucevic very easily.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm on second thought I think I actually agree with you on this one
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by Kris Willis on Feb 22, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
People keep harping on the defensive side
I’m not nearly as concerned about that as I am the offensive side. With this team, I don’t see any good reason that we’re averaging only 86 points a game this month, or that we’re sub-80 in 4 of those games. That’s something that should be corrected without a single roster change.
Well a lot of that is on coaching
Listen to Jason’s interview and that topic.
A blind squirrel will see what the problems with Hawks are now. Our coach, is not as smart as that squirrel mentioned above.
Having gotten used to Jamal’s skills, he is still striving for that, as opposed to adjusting his mentality to strengths he now has. As they say, he is addicted to jump shooters.
Maybe I put more of that on the players than others around here
And it does sound stupidly simple to say that the offense looks different when shots drop than when they don’t – but it’s true. Too many guys on the team revert to the iso turn-taking concept of offense the second there’s a bit of offensive adversity, and that just feeds on itself. I think where you are talking about scheme, I’m talking about simply executing the game plan.
And I just can’t believe that LD is on the sideline drawing up plays that involve JT not penetrating, Josh tossing up jumpers, or 4 guys standing freeze-tag still around the arc while JJ dribbles the ball around for 22 seconds. I think that’s the players comfort zone, not LD’s. But I can agree that it’s his job to get them to play smarter ball. I like what he’s done with the guards screening for each other.
I believe he does
I don’t believe he’s drawing up an offense at all. that motion offense isn’t an offense. It’s pass the ball around until you get a jump shot. I can do that in the rec league without any practice. And it only takes about 3-4 games before I know who can’t get the ball in certain situations because they are a jacker without the dead eye range, etc. So, i don’t think he’s doing any designing honestly. If you are small, how can you have your best rebounder shooting jumpers period. If Josh was as smart as people think, he’d know that EVEN if he loves his jumpers – at least until Al gets back – he has to let it go.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 23, 2012 2:52 AM EST up reply actions
. If you are small, how can you have your best rebounder shooting jumpers period. If Josh was as smart as people think, he’d know that EVEN if he loves his jumpers – at least until Al gets back – he has to let it go.
Normally I’d say because he lacks a post game. But today I thought he broke off Stoudemire on a faceup drive and got fouled and drew a double in the post.
I felt he could have kept doing it. Then he faced up and was driving the ball and kicking but shots weren’t falling. I’ll rewatch but I felt he couldve takeb it to amare.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 23, 2012 3:45 AM EST up reply actions
Well, I am assuming his "offense"
involves more than just passing the ball. True motion offense can work, but only if the ball moves and the players move. If his plan involves standing around the arc with no screening and cutting, I agree with you 100%.
That's my guess
I can’t imagine that he’s saying – screen and cut in some systemic fashion and we’ve never seen it. Only Zaza plays that way and I’m assuming that comes from his time in Europe growing up, not from being taught by WooDrew. It’s why I know that Acie was unsuccessful – you could see he came from a system where you don’t switch and you play fundamental ball. that didn’t work with jump shot and no hardcore defensive principles. So, he had to sit. (please save any Acie sucks messages – I think he does too, just saying he never had a chance here)
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 23, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
This is where I disagree with that sentiment
Good defense can lead to offense. That’s what Miami does best and that’s why it’s crazy to slow the game down on offense against them going one on one and getting blown out watching Miami steal and block their way to a 20 point deficit.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Yes, it can
And obviously I’m not thrilled when the team plays poor defense. I expect the guys we have to keep playing defense to the best of the team’s ability, and to look for ways to compensate for the lack of size.
I still am more concerned that the team right now is not playing to its capabilities offensively more than defensively.
I agree its offensively but a key phrase is this
“look for ways to compensate for the lack of size”
What I’ve seen is a certain player trying to play point-PF or point-center after he gets the rebound. I’ve seen our point guard not come back to get the ball and run the wing.
And lastly we’ve seen lots of jump shots and no double teams in the post. Size typically has many aspects.
- smaller defense, compensate with speed
- smaller offense, become more perimeter oriented
- smaller defense, lack in rebounding
I don’t know when the Heat run their small lineup but this is the first article that came up on google “heat small lineup”.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/05/16/thompson-bulls-bury-heats-small-lineup/
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I knew you say this
But Heat have simply the best player in the world. Who thrives on speed. And his Robin is not much behind. We don’t have that talent. We have to think of other ways to win. Chicago is the model if you don’t have that level talent, to pile up on size
we've beat these guys though
not lately but earlier in the year HANDEDLY. Everyone was healthy and we ran the game plan. These guys are not the best spot up shooters around so that’s why you want them to take those like the Hawks did earlier.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
ahhh - what could have been
I miss Lion immensely, but try to act as though he does not exist, or I get mad, and I am trying to stay calm
We beat them with Horford. That was the best win of the year to me.
Horford was leading the break and creating matchup problems. He would pepper in lobs on backdoors from Teague.
Zaza Pachulia is a true center Horford is more of a point-forward, point-center.
Horford has to get credit for being integral to small-ball. Instead of Smith leading the break and Zaza running we’d have Horford doing it and Smith running or Horford sprinting and sucking in defense.
offensively small-ball won’t work against elite teams without Al. I think we become a more conventional slow down team and play 2 on 5.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
That's not fair. If you're playing against 7 footers it takes extra-ordinary effort to get the ball. We give the same effort and we get killed. Simple as that. Camby + Aldridge had an effect. Gasol+Bynum demand extra effort.
I dont know how to quantify “too much talent”. Give the Bulls and Blazers and Lakers credit.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
I personally think we have to give their full lineups credit here. Our full lineup with Horford's smarts boxing out (Pachulia's slower) and ballhandling would have helped.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Please explain
Miami dominating the Lakers with the same “size” problem
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Smoove
has to stay in my opinion, if we trade and go big we’d have a front court of Smith (sf) Horford (pf) and a center, where Smith could much better against the smaller forwards
by Angelus on Feb 22, 2012 8:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
As hard as it is to watch
I’m looking at the Portland game right now:
It’s double teams. We are undersized and double too much. Then on the other side we have no post up options to back down and draw our own doubles.
One sequence clear out and enter into LMA vs Josh. Scared Teague comes to help leaving Felton open for a 3. Someone closes out on Felton who shoots it. Brick, Batum sweeps in for put back layup that was almost a dunk.
Then we never generate our own double teams in the post (they can afford JJ or Joe vs Gerald Wallace or Batum in the post) and we run a jump shot heavy offense.
2009 vs Dwight all over again. We just haven’t learned, we need to go bigger more.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 12:00 PM EST reply actions
Didn't we used to have a gif around here of a horse getting beat to death?
Seriously how many different threads have you made this argument now?
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by Kris Willis on Feb 22, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
like this?
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
by maxxj3 on Feb 22, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks
Keep that handy, I suspect we will need that again before the end of the day
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by Kris Willis on Feb 22, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Okay...That was funny. But I've never realized and said that we were double teaming so much.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
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