Is anybody else hoping the Hawks fall apart this season?
by RealSquawk on Feb 21, 2012 9:48 AM EST
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Fall apart is harsh and it isn't what I really meant. What I mean is does anyone hope the Hawks do more loosing than winning this season. They do a lot of standing pat and I am a little tired of it and they only way there will be major changes is if they don't meet their mediocre goals for this season.
So all I am hoping for is a little more loosing a lottery birth and management making a few changes here and there to get everyone excited about Hawks basketball because I am just not excited about this team anymore.
I don't want them to blow the team up and I don't think they will, but they do have the opportunity to add some pieces through the draft, trade a player for cap relief and a pick, and hire a new coach.
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Change is coming simply because it has to
but no I am not looking for more losing.
Next season Josh will enter the final year of his deal and they will have to make a huge decision on him because he will have a lot of value on the open market IMO. I would say that Marvin would be in play if they can find a taker but it is going to be hard to bring back Johnson, Horford and Smith beyond next season.
Change is coming, it is just a matter of when
@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis
Not to beat this dead horse
but if losing means a lottery pick, and we get lucky enough to land top 3 in said lottery, I’d be all for it. Barring an unexpected, and crack pipe dream level, free agency decision like D12 taking a massive hometown discount just to come home, that’s the only way we’re adding the elite talent that has long been proven necessary to compete and win titles.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 21, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
and what are the odds on landing a top 3 pick?
@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis
by Kris Willis on Feb 21, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, very small
but small is different from nonexistent. And small has happened before, several times.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 21, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt we could play anywhere poorly enough to miss the playoffs
Much less have more than a crack pipe dream level shot at better than the bottom lottery picks.
We’re losing against +.500 teams, same as we have all year. No reason to expect we won’t continue winning against -.500 teams, unless we lose more guys to injury – and if guys are out due to injury, management isn’t forced to the decision that this group needs to be broken up.
done
It looks to me like they already have fallen apart. They’ve lost 7 of the last 10 games, McGrady is whining to the media about playing time, Marvin wants to be traded, etc. etc.
I’d trade everybody with any value other than Teague and Horford and stock up on draft picks, expiring contracts, and cap space this season. With how well Joe is playing this season, this could be the last chance to get out from under his contract (short of using the amnesty) and get something back too. Then let Drew’s contract expire and pay up for a real, experienced coach to replace him. The hope is that would be enough to attract a few quality free agents. Fill in the rest of the roster with cheap veterans or young draftees as usual and take your chances.
If done smartly, the Hawks could still be a playoff team next season (the bottom of the East is truly awful) although it might take them another year or two to become contenders. Right now they are mired in a state of being good but not great. It’s nice making the playoffs year after year but eventually you want to actually win something. That doesn’t appear at all likely with the current crew.
I think decision time is rapidly approaching
They are going to have to retool. The thing is Sund/Drew aren’t likely to go that route because neither have a contract for next season.
@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis
by Kris Willis on Feb 21, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
@Kris
If we got Renardo Sidney…would our training staff or Josh Smith be able to take him aside and condition him into his potential ?
Smith lost 30 lbs in one season. Smith has not been let in on the big picture.
Lets say we got Smith to take Renardo on the same conditioning program and said you can be a star if you keep your head on straight lose weight for the season and plug holes with your jumper and in the post.
Do you see either Smith or our training staff that good to turn Sidney around?
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
No because Sidney has never shown that much dedication to the game
We can say what we want about Josh and some of the bad decisions he makes but it is hard to question his work ethic. Sidney in my mind is just a sad waste of ability at this point. Sure it is possible he could turn it around but I’d say it is about as a long shot as earning a top 3 lottery pick int his draft. Maybe even worse.
@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis
Thanks for the insight. I asked because a while back I saw some google reports that it's improving.
But there was one report that he was working with the legendary tough-as-nails John Lucas Sr.
Then there’s the story about Eddy Curry being wanted by the Heat pushed him to drop the weight.
Renardo surely isn’t as bad as Curry. He’s more like DeMarcus. My generation has a lot of coddled kids who dont know how to handle the NBA rigors and adversity yet. I think we can take that long shot, draft the kid, get him in the gym, with Josh and get that superstar. Renardo surely isn’t as bad as Curry, physically and mentally, even he made it back. Josh Smith as a offseason physical and mental mentor coupled with Renardo’s skills sounds very very good to me.
Potentially he drops a couple lbs. His potential is too good to pass up for us.
With Joe and Josh and Teague as headier options he’s like Marvin Williams with Dwights frame ie a last option with the versatility of a 1st option. Strength and size inside, post up and outside shooting, rebounding. If we get him down to 270 or 265. Thats Very exciting. At any rate I would take that chance and draft him with our mid lotto pick. And get him in a gym.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 21, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
No, Curry isn't a bad comp for Sidney
he’s not as skilled offensively, but Curry fits much better than Cousins.
If we’re taking a Miss St big, we want Arnett Moultrie only.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Curry was having rape allegations thrown at him and near 400 lbs. Another guy who lost weight is Derrick Caracter. Though he's more of a tweener and out the league now.
Curry had murdered family members and crazy things happening.
Off court I think the worst thing about Sidney is I heard his dad is a moneygrubber.
I dont see what Arnett Moultrie bring. 6’11 220lb PF. That is a 6’11 stringbean power dunker. What happened to Keith Benson? To me That pick would be beyond silly and I think we’d get laughed at.
If we think it through we don’t need size in the form of height. We need size in the form of “this player is a good enough defender to move Al/Josh up a position”.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 21, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
That and Josh doesn't have that frame
he’s got a slender build, and is better suited at this lower weight physically. Sidney is much thicker, wider, and carries his weight easier than Josh would. Plus, he’s a fat ass, and Josh has never been anything of the sort.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Whats up with Larry Drew?
Could it be Larry Drew? His players are disgruntled and his inexperience as a head coach is showing. The way he does substitutions is a pain in the butt. Pargo comes in the game late in the third quarter against the bulls and shows out. I cant say I want the Hawks to fall apart because I have been a fan since 1985. I see your point in making moves in the draft after good talent. But, if they do get a good draft pick will they draft the right player is the question? lol.
I throwed welcome you to the "Fire Larry Drew" bandwagon
come and enjoy, there is plenty of room
Ivan Johnson doesn't cut his grass, he stares at it and dares it to grow.......
do we still got our first round this year?
Ivan Johnson doesn't cut his grass, he stares at it and dares it to grow.......
NOW THATS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
by HARDBODI82 on Feb 21, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Renardo Sidney goddamnit Perfect skillset and size to rectify our lineup but he's a coddled baby.
It is amazing that he has not been able to lose weight over the course of the season. He looks like he is pushing 350 lbs and is less mobile this year than last. It is unfortunate because this could have been a year where a big man with his skills could have dominated.
http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/01/29/source-sidney-likely-wont-return-to-mississippi-state/
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
Kobe, LeBron and ... Renardo
Kobe, LeBron and Renardo.
“He’s the third-most talented guy who has ever been in my gym, behind Kobe and LeBron,” said former NBA player/coach John Lucas. “I had never seen him before, but now I see what all the fuss is about. He’s got everything. He can do whatever he wants on the court. He’s that talented.”
Yes, Lucas was talking about the enigmatic Mississippi State big man Renardo Sidney – who spent about two months this summer working with Lucas in Houston.
Sidney, who was suspended on a couple of occasions last year at Mississippi State, did not travel on the team’s trip earlier this summer, instead being sent to work with Lucas.
“He’s been allowed to do whatever he wants,” Lucas said. “People have been treating him like a pro since the eighth grade. He’s been used to being catered to.”
Lucas said he went right at Sidney, who has dropped about 20 or so pounds this past summer.
“We battled for a month,” Lucas admitted. “It was his will against mine.”
Lucas’ gym down in Houston has been filled with NBA and college guys – Antonio McDyess, Tristan Thompson, Rashad Lewis, DeAndre Jordan, Thaddeus Young and Derrick Williams just to name a few.
And Renardo trails only Kobe and LeBron in terms of pure talent.
Sounds crazy?
It’s not.
“He’s got every component to the game,” Lucas said. “He has so much basketball knowledge and I think that’s part of the problem. He gets frustrated and mad at his teammates.”
There are plenty who have written Sidney off with the lack of effort and discipline he has displayed over the last few years.
But Lucas is still holding out hope.
“I like his chances,” he said when asked if Sidney can straighten out his act this season and fulfill that “potential” tag.
I’m still not sold.
http://eye-on-college-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/31954681
He seems like one of those who’s never faced adversity. He’s never had to be in shape just to play at a high level. He needs to wake up. But not so much that we can’t draft him :D
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
So you're new obsession
is a fat schlub big man averaging 10 and 5 as a junior? Have you watched Mississippi St at all this season? This ought to be fun.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
If we can fix his head and are going to ever win then I'd trade down and draft him in the early 2nd. Unless you'd rather draft a nice guy/nice story tweener like Plumlee or Kevin Jones.
I’m not going for the bait.
pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 22, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
And if I magically sprout another fit, I'd be a helluva signing
that’s about as likely to occur as fixing his head. If you’ve seen Sidney play this year, you’d recognize that he’s just not worth it. He’s not C size, doesn’t have athleticism (or at least doesn’t look it as out of shape as he is), and just isn’t that good. The only big on that team worth taking is Moultrie, say what you will about his thickness. But Moultrie is skilled, athletic, hustles, and is simply the much better player.
Personally, I’d rather draft someone who is at least good enough to make a roster. Sidney, while in a perfect world is, in reality isn’t that someone.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
And this was in September
if he lost 20 pounds over the summer, he gained it back quickly in the fall and then some more. That “if” he can show effort, and discipline, has had another year with a giant “No, he can’t”. He should be in shape to play at a high level now. But he isn’t in shape, and he isn’t playing well. He’s gotten worse. Feel free to watch him play this year, he’s the last guy you’d want to draft on that team. Well, maybe not “last”, but certainly behind Dee Bost, Arnett Moultrie, and Rodney Hood.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
The guy is one fat bastard. Is there a way we can do a Marvin attitude transplant into the guy. Huge waste of talent.
sg Jeff Teague + sg Joe Johnson + sf Josh Smith
+ uberscrub Marvin Williams + scrub Zaza Pachulia
----
* {#40 Pick PF Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
*2012 NBA Draft: Hawks draft SF/PF/C Renardo Sidney
Kirk Hinrich is the new Mike Bibby.
by PointGuardSlim on Feb 23, 2012 4:43 AM EST up reply actions
The problem is in the "then" half of your if-then assumptions
There’s no guarantee the team gets embarrassed in the playoffs, and there’s certainly no guarantee the team makes changes if it misses, or that it only makes changes if it misses.
I’d rather watch a season that involves mostly winning. If that’s not how the season works out, I’ll find the silver lining in actually caring about the lottery and enjoying the first couple of hours of draft night. But I’m not hoping the season goes to pot for the slim chance that lightening strikes in the lottery/draft.
I can't remember a time they outside of some of the chicago series (thank you Jeff Teague) that this team hasn't had some of the worst losses in playoff history. A matter of fact I think they hold the record for playoff losses by the largest margin.
And if you think this year will be any different I give you this seasons most recent games.
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