Hawks vs. Lakers Final Score: Lakers 86, Hawks 78

by Jason Walker on Feb 15, 2012 2:26 AM EST

Quick Thought: Hawks were way too lackadasical to walk into Staples Center and win.

Deep(er) and Final Thoughts:

How can it get any deeper than this: If the Hawks are serious about anything resembling a playoff run, where they presumably will be playing teams better than .500 like the Lakers, then the carelessness has to be remedied.

How many missed shots at the rim and the free throws does one team need to throw away, along with transition opportunities, before they decide they want to be better than a team that beats up on teams less talented and hope that luck carries the day against the better ones?

Jeff Teague was way too lax with the ball -- on the break, to the hoop, overall. His is the one that needs to set the tone, and he is, but its a tone far too familiar for Hawks fans.

Josh Smith continued to do the things he does -- fill the stat sheet and take bad shots for him. It's tired, but one must also see an offense that stands completely still unless they are the focus of the latest pick and roll or have the ball in their own hands. Smith is a culprit in this -- he stands completely still, wide open of course -- and waits for the ball handler to drive to the hole, knowing that he will be wide open. No cuts to the hoop in the half court, just standing.

Marvin Williams tried to drive when he wasn't shooting fadeaways across his body. Marvin's 2-8 shooting night was highlighted by a number of plays where the ball slipped out of his hands or such. His clumsiness on the night appeared as if he had brought two left hands into the arena to play.

The Hawks took a noble effort against Kobe Bryant, 5-13, 10 points, and crumbled it up and tossed it into a corner with their (offensive) offensive approach.

Teams with aspirations of doing more don't do what the Donnie Don't Hawks does. They don't do whatever it is they want and is easy and hope that luck carries the day -- they take care of the ball, make good passes, take good shots.

The Hawks lack of a floor leader shows in games like this -- everybody is on the same page, but it's the wrong book.

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the only reason that this game wasnt as dissappointing

is because I sat through both of the Miami games and was at the Grizzlies blowout. Normally I would be pissed, but I have seen worse this season

Ivan Johnson once strangled a man with a cordless phone

by Throw on Feb 15, 2012 2:29 AM EST reply actions

There were some positives to take from the game

Teague continues to attack inside. He gets to the basket better than any Hawk. If he finishes the layups and fast breaks he normally does, it be a closer game.

Smoove can make such a difference if he just gives up on this dribbling nonsense. At some point, the coach must call him out on that topic if Smoove is not listening to LD in private.

As for Marvin, I would think this is the time a change in starting lineup must be made. Either put Rad in there or T-Mac. Rad is horrible on D, but as a SF his length compensates for some things, and dude can at least shoot. And what in name of All Stars is wrong with JJ?

We are all tired, and need to get some rest for tonight.

by ATLpaul on Feb 15, 2012 5:57 AM EST reply actions

Well

I know you can’t go backwards on this since you’ve staked your claim on size and josh jumpers, but I’ll just deposit the ‘this is why Smoove is not on the All Star team’ nugget. You saw about 4-5 early in the shot clock long 2s and 3s that had no shot. So, he was not the biggest problem, but he was close to it. The bad shots and the dribbling aren’t going to stop because it would mean that Drew has to try to reverse years of bad habits in 2 months. Not gonna happen. Josh is who he is and at his best – he’s a monster and at his worst – he’s a liability. I could show a self aware, non-sensitive Smoove exactly where his dribbling hurts the team and where his shooting hurts the team and I’d do it in front of his team, so they know – hey, GO GET THE BALL on the break and hey, do not pass Josh the ball in these spots until he can show that he understands that he is not to shoot those shots unless there are under 5 seconds on the shot clock. If he can’t figure that out, wave him off the spot.

Now, what exactly did Marvin do that requires him to go to the bench? He’s played well this year. Not last night, but unless you are saying that for a shake up to balance the team – I haven’t seen anything that says that Marvin deserves to be demoted. He’s one of the leading 3pt shooters in the league. explain please…

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 15, 2012 9:27 AM EST up reply actions

I am not going backwards

You are taking my words out of context. What I said about Smoove jumpers is he has to take them in rhythm. That means catch and shoot. That does not mean dribble and fade away. I also said if he takes 2 and does not make them, he should stop for the half, that mean not shoot indiscriminately. I still stand by my words. You know why? Because this team lacks scorers. If JJ struggles, no Lion, Marvin in stealth mode, this team needs Smoove to take shots. This is where I miss Jamal, but we all know Jamal’s other issues, or rather the way LD misused Jamal. The reason Teague is so valuable, is because he attacks and tries to score. We need people to step up and score.

As for Marvin, his demotion as you put it, has to do with the fact I can’t stand his poodle personality any longer. If I owned the team, he be off my team tomorrow. For years he struggled for playing time with Chilz, because Marvin sucks. Then it was Jamal stealing his shots. I have had it with him. He passes the balls he should take to Teague now so Teague can shoot from outside. Last night, 3 feet from him, was JJ. Marvin in position to take a good shot. Instead he passes to JJ and runs away and cold JJ shoots from almost the same spot and misses. That is why I want him demoted. If you are going to be a poodle and not take shots, I pass. Does he add value, yes, If he catches and shoots. Or if there is a fast break. He rebounds and defends relatively well. Those are values. But he is a poodle and when going gets tough against tough competition he disappears. And don’t get me started on his finishing in the paint, getting blocked by the rim, double dribbling, being blocked by midgets, … But more than anything, I want an Alpha dog. And I take Rad (hurts me to say this) and sub-par T-Mac over him to start

by ATLpaul on Feb 15, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions

Ok

Fair point – I definitely don’t want to take you out of context. Here’s my comment about those 2 jump shots. As a catch and shooter, Josh Smith is STILL sub-par. So, my point to your point is it’s still 2 wasted shots. Shots that if made – cause him to take more shots. Shots that he can’t make. I can throw up some 3s in a rec league game and if I make them and then decide I’m hot and shoot it again looking for the same results. I lose the game. Apply this logic to critical games or the playoffs and unlike me, Josh can’t call next on the court. He’s going home. So, my point to you is the lack of scorers (which I disagree with) will never, ever, ever, eva eva (Outkast style) will make those good shots for Josh or this team.

Now, Marvin’s problem is LD – LD doesn’t trust him, so he’s gunshy and I understand that – you can’t put him on the court with 3 other options above him and expect him to shoot 20 times a game. That’s not how the NBA works. When he is hot, he’s taken out and when he comes back – he’s not there for long. That’s when he’s HOT. Just don’t undervalue his defense or rebounding. Anyway, let’s please leave Jamal out of this discussion.

So, I’ll agree with you that we want players to want to score the ball. My point to you is – we want players to want to score by using the skills that they have that are repeatable and in their wheel house. Jump shots (like free throws) are like fool’s gold for Josh and it’s why he is so inconsistent. He can consistently make shots in the paint and if he concentrated as much on FTs as taking those jumpers – he’d be back at 70% and he’d be a 20ppg scorer without doing ANYTHING else in his game but not shooting jumpers.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 15, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions

and not adding a crossover to his game

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 15, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions

We agree to disagree on Smoove

Relative to Marvin, I ask is Marvin only LD’s problem? Or was he also under-achieving for Woody? How do you say they don’t trust him, when he has been a starter here ever since being drafted? What other measure of trust can a coach have in a player?

by ATLpaul on Feb 15, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions

minutes

is my measure – if you aren’t there to end games, then that’s my measure and yes, we’ll agree to disagree on Josh. I love him, but there’s not a chance in haiti (even after tonight) that you can convince me that any jump shot is a good one from Josh.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 16, 2012 1:51 AM EST up reply actions

Marvin used to finish under Woody

And his uselessness prompted LD to bench him even last year.

I say it does not matter what portion of the game he gets his minutes in, starter, middle, end, it is all the same. He is what he is. He can make outside jumpers and every few games he may be making even some threes. He is a disaster taking it inside. He is a disaster against tougher competition. He can rebound and run effectively. Those things that are negatives don’t change and have not changed in 7 years according to type of minutes.

He used to finish for Woody but still struggled with Chilz for playing time. Then he lost that to Jamal and now for cryin out loud to Rad and Willie Green. He is what he is, a mediocre bench player in NBA, not starter material. His value is more coming from the bench to help the Hawks.

by ATLpaul on Feb 16, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions

Well

I’m not trying to stump hard for Marvin, but he plays defense and rebounds and shoots 3s well. I can’t go with disaster though. Sometimes he disappears, but that’s a LD problem – he’s ruined him like he ruined Teague and Zaza for a minute. So, I feel you, but I’m not saying that he’s a bench player. he has more talent than that.

That said, I think he should be coming off the bench for more bench firepower.

In other news. a completely awesome game from Josh where he goes 13-23 and guess what part of his game was the only bad part – shot 3 for 11 (and most importantly 1 for 9 from 16-23). I’ll continue to say – Josh can make shots at the rim and if he just stayed there – he’d be in Orlando next week.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 16, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions

I want Marvin off the bench, so we almost agree - as for Smoove let me educate you

Those outside jumpers that you are talkin about, did they not include the three pointers when Hawks were making a run? Have I not told you that Hawks win when he scores because Hawks lack scorers?

Listen I know Smoove in the post is a beast(not only because he can score, but ….). Regardless, he is a free lancer. He has flair. He is Picasso when you want him to go the freaking arts school of design and sit with other fundamentally sound artists. You are never going to make a Dang or Battier out of him. Then when did Dang or Battier have a line like Smoove? In all of NBA history, that line has not been had (outside of one game by Lebron James in a double overtime game!!!!). You want to suffocate his style for your beloved Gene Hackman Hoosiers fundamental ball. I say no. I say you look at all the great players, fundamentals are OVERRATED. Lebron? College? KY keeps getting one and out players and keeps doing great in college basketball. Does that mean Callipari is a great fundamentals coach or a great recruiter?

What I am telling you, and you can take this down, basketball is a street game, 10 times more than it is a fundamentals game. I go with Smoove flair and I see growth. He is getting it. Every year he is improving. I let him go and he’ll calm down as he gets to trust Teague more. Read his comments this past summer about Rondo, and you see he gets it

by ATLpaul on Feb 17, 2012 8:02 AM EST up reply actions

You are completely delusional

let me get this straight, so because he hit 2 3s while shooting less than 30% from outside – I’m supposed to say oh, that’s Picasso out there. Come on, dude. We agree that Josh is a phenomenal talent. I’m not trying to make him into anything more than a guy who uses his talent to do the things he can do. He can’t have flair and success. He has to have flair and F up 60-70% in a place he can’t make shots. We have 7 years of evidence of this fact. So, I don’t know what you are talking about. There’s NOTHING street about taking shots you can’t hit. It’ll cost us the playoffs you seem so desperate to think is tied to size. It’s tied to players playing to their strengths. He is not improving on that aspect. he is not getting it with regards to bringing up the rock.

What he’s doing this year ain’t new to me. In fact, it’s old. He’s been this talented, so I love Josh flair – there’s no flair in those jump shots. None. It’s plain ugly and there’s nothing you can school me on in that regard. What you seem to want to do is show me that when he’s messing up – he’s really doing well. My point is – he’d be EVEN more successful if he gave those things up. That we’d see more flair on the alley oop from Teague than the TO on the Smoove led break. That we’d see more buckets and FTs inside than on the brick city he’s shooting up on most occasions. Every dog has its day and that’s why I say – you only pipe up about his jumpers whne they go in, but most of the time they don’t and then you’re silent. And as for his Hoosiers fundamental ball – he was signed to Indiana. And if I had a guarantee that he was going to get some burn there and still be a Hawk – I wish he would have gone there first, so they could loose him of this ridiculous fascination with jump shots and then we wouldn’t be talking about this silly topic of trying to convince me that Josh Smith should shoot jumpers. It’s just ridiculous and I can’t believe I waste my time talking about a guy who is so bad at it – he’s ALWAYS open. You don’t think the NBA scouting report is aware of this fact and that’s why they let him have the shot. You have never seen anyone cover Josh outside of 16 ft. What about that that seems to make any sense to you unless you recognize that they are willing to let him shoot that ALL DAY LONG? If I played Josh Smith in one on one, I’d say to him..I won’t even waive in your direction if you shoot outside 16 ft. That’s his scouting report. No one is even running out on him he’s so bad at that shot and you want me to call it flair. Stop it…

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 17, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions

it's getting uglier and i dont like it anymore

what the heck is happening with this team..there is no leader on the floor . what kind of all star jj is?very inconsistent. i agree that the starting lineup should change..

by silentfury01 on Feb 15, 2012 8:59 AM EST reply actions

That was a really ugly shooting night

Joe was the only one to shoot at least 40%, and he wasn’t much over that. I can’t believe some of those didn’t go down, especially with all the missed layups.

But I don’t want to be grumpy over it today, so I’m going to pretend it was just fluky shooting, and ignore some of the team tendencies that should be concerning me. Denial is good.

by wjb1492 on Feb 15, 2012 9:42 AM EST reply actions

The number one

Issue I saw last night was size. Not defensively, bynum and pau do that nightly. But our lack of size was apparent offensively. what I saw in this game was the hawks attempting to move the ball around. Only problem is that four players were on the perimeter and zaza was at the ft line. The ball just kept swinging around the perimeter. If we had some guys getting inside position, the inside out game would open everything else up, the lakers showed us that.
Im getting really tired of watching josh block someone and none of his teammates going after the rebound.
One thing I did see today that made me smile was when the hawks were getting set to inbound the ball and everyone walked away except teague…smoove started walking like he wanted teague to inbound it to him, and you saw teague then tell josh to get his ass back and inbound the ball!

by bravesfanldh on Feb 15, 2012 10:01 AM EST via Android app reply actions 1 recs

is that what you saw

I saw a team that just couldn’t make shots. Played great D. couldn’t throw it in the ocean. So, yes, early size mattered, but it didn’t keep us from winning the game. And yes, we need more of that from Teague – tell this fool to give you the ball.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 15, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions

I wouldn't read to much into last night's performance

11/32 in the paint says it all. You can’t say it was a lack of effort or offensive execution. Getting a clean shot off in the paint is 90% of the job. Actually putting it in the bucket is the final 10% and that can’t be blamed on a scheme or an effort level. It’s just one of those fluky things that happen from time to time

Atlanta sports have singlehandedly crushed my soul.

by Beachy Keen on Feb 15, 2012 10:22 AM EST reply actions

I saw it that way as well

There was definitely a lid on the basket. I think it was just bad shooting more than any other factor that did the Hawks in last night. I swear, if the Hawks could find a way to eliminate the seemingly inedible one bad quarter a game, we’d be in business.

by societydmg on Feb 15, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions

Agree and disagree

The misses by Teague will turn into makes. Those misses will not happen every game. And Damp is out of shape so he missed bunnies. As for Marvin misses, he will never make those in the paint opportunities consistently.

by ATLpaul on Feb 15, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah

It was a bad shooting night, but some of the turnovers were inexcusable, I.e teagues failed behind the back to smith. We all know a good dunk can get smith going, on the road, against a team like the lakers….just get the ball to him!

by bravesfanldh on Feb 15, 2012 2:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

weirdest team ever

can’t think of another team in playoff contention that could benefit from completely tanking and rebuilding. it speaks to their dependency on lights out shooting night after night. The lack of inside game means its overachieve on shooting or lose. this game was theirs for the taking. nothing at this point could convince me that ASG is taking this team seriously.

by Turb0 on Feb 15, 2012 11:08 AM EST reply actions