Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Kobe Bryant Will Never Top Michael Jordan

Hawks Vs. Magic Final Score: Atlanta Knocks Off Orlando 89-87 In Overtime

Star-divide

Quick Thought: Whew. Glad that one is over. With a win, of course.

Deeper Thoughts:

The Hawks vacillated between a tremendously tough team and a matchup nightmare for Orlando and a team that couldn't get out of its own way, especially through a bizarre closing stretch offensively.

Thought it all, the Hawks fought defensively, used their collective length to annoy Orlando, let the Magic ignore Dwight Howard by single teaming him once again, and did just enough to escape Amway with a win.

Does this game define what Josh Smith is on the court or what? Many long two-point shots, fantastic drives to the basket late, constant challenges on the shot block, zipping great passes upcourt, carelessly and weakly passing the ball in the backcourt and getting it stolen. 40 percent shooting. 18 defensive rebounds, only the third Hawk to have that many since 1986 (Kevin Willis, Dikembe Mutombo). Five assists. Four turnovers. 47 minutes of oh-no, oh-yes basketball.

Down the stretch, until the offense stopped being interested in doing anything before five seconds left on the shot clock, the ball was being force-fed to Josh and the results were positive. First, he split a pair of defenders near the hoop on a drop step move and scored. Then he went baseline on Ryan Anderson and slammed before Dwight Howard knew Smith at the hoop. Then, after Smith went hook shot and barely missed, Smith went back to the baseline on Anderson and got fouled, making one of two.

After that onslaught, the Magic double teamed Josh and his quick ball movement allowed for a wide open shot for either Joe Johnson or Jeff Teague, but neither took it, instead seeing Teague attempt a runner over Howard that missed. Still, Smith had created another good shot.

After those five straight possessions that the Hawks ran the offense through Smith in the post - a strategy that saw the Hawks score five points, Larry Drew called for a one-two pick and roll and then Iso-Joe, both of which missed the mark. The last possession of regulation saw a too-late beginning to the play and the ball finding Josh 22 feet from the basket with a couple of seconds left on the clock. Smith missed the jumper.

The Magic erased the eight point lead going through Smith had built in a matter of two minutes, culminating with a Howard put back slam. After the overtime period began, the Magic struck first with a Hedo Turkoglu three pointer. At this point, after the Hawks had blown the lead, played a lot of minutes and having no momentum offensively, it would be okay to admit that you gave up on the Hawks.

But the team kept fighting. Marvin Williams hit a three, then Teague hit a nifty runner through the lane, tying the game. Joe finally found his floater to give the Hawks a two point lead. Joe spun baseline on the next Hawks possession for a fadeaway over Jameer Nelson to go up four.

The Magic kept after it, getting a Ryan Anderson three and Jason Richardson free throw. The Hawks countered by splitting four free throws to hang on to a two point lead. The Magic went for the kill with Jason Richardson missing a three, but the Magic wrestled the rebound from Kirk Hinrich and when Nelson's long three point attempt rimmed off, the game was exhaustingly over. Finally. Hawks win.

Game Balls:

Josh Smith. He's oblivious, he's productive and he truly does all he feels he can to win. 23 points. 19 rebounds (22 is his career high). Five assists. Three blocks. Game ball.

Jason Collins was out. Erick Dampier wore out quick. Having the size in the middle to single team Dwight Howard is essential to the Hawks strategy of keeping the Magic three point shooters quiet. Even without their ‘bulk', the Hawks got all they needed from Zaza Pachulia, the birthday boy, to keep that strategy in tact. Zaza ran the floor, other beating Howard down the court for an easier opportunity. He baited Howard into a couple of offensive fouls, one of which led to a technical foul. In a game and rivalry in which the games are now often close, every point counts - and it most certainly did tonight. Nine points and 10 rebounds were a tasty cherry on the sundae.

Finally, Marvin Williams deserves his gameball for his 13 point, six rebound night and for hitting three 3-point baskets, including the clutch one in overtime. But he really deserves the gameball for being an obvious nuisance to Ryan Anderson. Anderson had awful troubles with Marvin, doing his damage when Marvin was off the court. After a fourth quarter outburst with Marvin on the bench, Larry Drew took time to get Williams back on the job.

Afterthoughts:

Per Basketball-Reference, Josh's 23 point/18 defensive rebound/3 block stat line has only been done 27 other times since 1986. Add in his five assists and the list shrinks to eight.

The bench was not elite tonight, as the Hawks gave ground quick with the subs in the game. Also, the first half configuration was weird, as Drew seemed to the little league/everybody plays method to substitutions by including Jannero Pargo, Dampier and Vladimir Radmanovic and playing all but Jerry Stackhouse in the game.

Final Thought:

The gameplan is still effective. Despite the Hawks single teaming Howard, the All-Star center only scored 18 points as the Magic don't seem to care to change their approach no matter what the Hawks are doing.

The Magic shot well, they outrebounded Atlanta and came back strong in the fourth quarter. Still, the Hawks emerged victorious and Atlanta continues to look the role of favorite in any matchup between these two teams, as they have ever since Orlando sent known Hawk Hater Vince Carter away with Marcin Gortat and Mikael Pietrus.

It's a second consecutive good win against a solid opponent and a good sign that this team has not given way. Not the prettiest of wins or close outs, but they did it. Hawks win.

Comment 87 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Game ball to Duane Ferrell

Make him the head coach.

twitter.com/fakericksund

by NajehDavenpoop on Feb 10, 2012 11:52 PM EST reply actions  

Two wins in a row against a couple of stronger teams in the East

Should bring a bit of credibility back for the Hawks. All the starters showed flashes of good play at times throughout this game, even though we did resort to iso-sets down the stretch in the first quarter.

Josh played a brilliant game tonight. He’s making a case for himself to make the East all-star squad should Carmelo Anthony step down due to injury.

Ivan Johnson - the new Xavier McDaniel

by Nique Fan on Feb 10, 2012 11:52 PM EST reply actions  

you may not know this but

marvin williams quietly shot 50% for the night

by cory25 on Feb 10, 2012 11:53 PM EST reply actions  

Josh wasnt that brilliant

it took him 23 shot attempts & 6 free throw attempts to get his 22 points. He was a beast on the boards though

by cory25 on Feb 10, 2012 11:55 PM EST reply actions  

I understand that he shouldn't have taken the amount of outside jumper he did in the first half

But the rest of his game was on song. 19 boards, 5 assists & 3 blocks, that’s a pretty tidy effort.

Ivan Johnson - the new Xavier McDaniel

by Nique Fan on Feb 10, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yea isnt that a career high in rebounds too?? Im shocked he had no steals..

An box score watching is how i get too see most games this year so thats not a cool statement,lol.. Any sites that stream the game good?

by SmokedTooMuch013 on Feb 11, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Supposedly he had 22 rebounds vs the Rockets in the '08 season

Do not anger Ivan Johnson, or he'll have to go Kermit Washington on your ass

by Nique Fan on Feb 11, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

cool story and nice opinion

but thats why box score watching is stupid

by Jonesy24 on Feb 11, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He played well

but taking that many shots to only get 22 points is called being inefficient on offense. It goes to show that if Josh really wanted to be a great player, he could do it. He has all the talent in the world and I’m hoping he is finally pissed off after not making the all star team. If he can stop taking jump shots, he would be an all star hands down.

by Dwalk1217 on Feb 11, 2012 1:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Soo..

Ur logic is that smoove didn’t get selected bc he scored 22 points on 23 shots, yet jj scored 10 points on 10 shots…seems even to me, difference is jj had nothing to show in the other categories, smoove had plenty. Kobe almost always shoots more than he scores or atleast even, but no one is saying ohh he should just try harder and hell make the allstar team. The reality is 1 pt per shot attempt is good, can’t ask for much more

by bravesfanldh on Feb 11, 2012 2:10 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Let me make sure I understand

Smoove has single handedly won two games (Pacers and now Orlando) with brilliant plays, and you are complaining? I mean I get the fact he takes jumpers, but do you look at the entirety of the game? Do you normally decide if the movie is good in first 5 minutes?

by ATLpaul on Feb 11, 2012 7:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Single handedly?

I’ll even give you last night, but relax on the Pacer game. Kirk and Joe were awesome on Wednesday.

Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl Google+: Ed G

by Duff_Man on Feb 11, 2012 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Smoove carried the weight on both nights

Without Smoove contributions against Pacers, Kirk and Joe could not carry the load.

Remember, Smoove is playing 4 and 5. I know you mostly look at scoring, but game is played at both ends of the floor. That is why he is an ALL STAR

by ATLpaul on Feb 11, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I know

you are the Josh Smith Fan Club – I held that title for his first 4 seasons in the league – but here’s the problem. You are always vocal when a player does great things, then quiet when it’s the opposite. You can acknowledge that Josh did great in many areas last night and was completely a bonehead by taking the jumpers. Those jumpers mattered as to why my heart was in my throat at the game last night. Was he the only culprit? No. Was he one of them in that regard? Yes. It’s why he gets snubbed – if you watched the whole game – you should have seen some unnecessary TOs, some unnecessary dribbling, etc. I’m not trying to nitpick, but that’s what coaches see with Smoove. So great game – he balled, but he also showed his lack of discipline. And you can ignore that to make your point or not.

Oh, and how did size matter last night toward the winning of that regular season? Not much really, right? Like I continue to say – bring up size when we are playing well, but last night we should have won by 10 and it had nothing to do with size. Just needed to stop Jameer Nelson from running down the lane and shooting dumb shots down the stretch.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 11, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Smoove

His insistence in bringing the ball up the floor led to a much needed Zaza layup and his nonchalant passing flair led to a T Mac backdoor layup. Sometimes you have to take chances to make plays. Josh has no conscience in that respect. He reminds me of Jay Cutler or Brett Favre in that respect. He thinks he can do anything so he forces some things and tries to do too much at times. Sometimes it works beautifully sometimes it doesn’t. Blame discipline. Blame coaching. Or just soak in the madness that is Josh Smith and realize that you probably won’t see a 23 pt, 19 reb, 5 assist, 3 block game from anyone else on this team or the rest of the league for that matter

by frootbooty on Feb 11, 2012 12:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

not going to justify bad play

I refuse to do it. Several times he is throwing the ball away when it’s CRUCIAL for us not to. We should demand that the guy be brilliant. If I could get the MVP Brett Favre, then fine, but I’m not accepting 30INT not making the playoff Brett Favre. So, no you don’t have to take chances with things that aren’t your job – we don’t need Josh to shoot jumpers or to bring up the ball. He can do all of those things he does in that night without the 1 Zaza layup. That was a great play, but if you ask me to trade that for the other bad things, sorry not gonna do it…

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 11, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you read my post a little below?

Did I not speak about his dribbling? Perhaps you didn’t see that.

Regardless, dude, if Smoove doesn’t score, this team won’t win. Case in point last 2 games. Without Lion, teams will double JJ. Smoove has to score.

So you want to pick on his jump shots, go ahead. Feel free. You have company. Remember, even the great Kobe takes a lot of shots to score. I am not comparing the two, just saying, if you are looking for great percentages and high scoring, two don’t always align.

I don’t want to confuse matters talking about center position. Bottom line is Hawks have learnt how to play Orlando. That doesn’t have anything to do with size issue. You are mixing matters.

I am not sure what you are talking about on a night he has performed so well.

by ATLpaul on Feb 11, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

what I'm talking about

is that a player can play well and still do the things that limit him from doing better. That’s the only point i make. Even on a night like last night he STILL didn’t play his best – that’s my point. You seem to ignore when he does things that he can’t do because he also does good things. That’s where you and I depart. I was screaming for Josh to continue to do great things, but the shooting part of his game on Friday was not great – it wasn’t stellar at ALL. He was most devastating when he was on the block. You say he can’t do that against everyone – well, last night he could..so why didn’t he then. That’s a problem that will be painful come the playoffs when one or two possessions determine games. So, I have said nothing about whether he needs to score or other things…but to use your Kobe and Josh comparison – I’d say that’s a great example of my point. When Kobe goes into Superman mode, he can win a game, but for the point of the Lakers winning a title – the lakers are best when he hits the shots he can hit while involving his team. He’s better and they are better when he doesn’t go to superhero mode. Same for Josh – when Josh isn’t trying to dribble and isn’t trying to shoot jumpers he CAN"T HIT!!!! Then, we are a team that can be dangerous. So, high percentage and high scoring do align if you want to win a title. They don’t if you just want to beat the Wizards of the world.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 12, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Couldn’t have said it better

by bravesfanldh on Feb 11, 2012 11:57 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

With

The emergence of jeremy lin…i think knicks now become real contenders to get dwight in a trade. Lin is looking awesome, IF he keeps it up, hed be an enticing piece in a package for dwight. Personally….i think Lin might be better for that team than dwight…..anyone ready to start a lin to atlanta campaign? To early? Haha, if u can’t tell, ive fallen victim to linsanity…can’t not enjoy watching a guy play with that much passion and execution….id love to see players on the hawks having that kind of fun…imo they are too serious and need to have more fun together just playin ball..look at what its done to the knicks

by bravesfanldh on Feb 11, 2012 12:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I think it's more likely they trade Melo for Dwight

and keep Lin, especially if he keeps this up.

twitter.com/fakericksund

by NajehDavenpoop on Feb 11, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

they won't trade Melo

it would be Amare and Douglas probably……

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 11, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

And

I think melo would be the last guy traded on that roster. Msg needs stars, regardless of his play, melo plus dwight sells tickets. In the end that’s what its all about for most teams

by bravesfanldh on Feb 11, 2012 1:37 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

My thing is...

They’d be wise to package lin in a trade for dwight if that was the asking price.
Even if lin continues to play like this, your still getting dwight. On the other hand, if he regresses, you look like a complete genius. Its a no lose situation for the knicks if the lin plus another player is a possibility.

by bravesfanldh on Feb 11, 2012 1:35 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

At this point

Lin isn’t going anywhere. 4-0 with him starting.

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 11, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Harry the Hawk in New Orleans?

I don’t know if anyone noticed but on the NBATV highlights for the Hornets-Blazers game, Harry was posing with NO’s mascot. Not relevant to the game but I found it at least humorous

by Sky Hawk on Feb 11, 2012 12:07 AM EST reply actions  

Where were you?

What do you do on your days off?

I touched the garment of Ivan Johnson and I saw the Rapture

by a hooter's baby on Feb 11, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Is it just me or is Van Gundy and his team always playing mind games?
Glen Davis: "Me and Dwight are physical guys. We bang down there. But at the same time that doesn’t matter if we don’t match their intensity. They are physical, too, like with Ivan Johnson."

Ivan Johnson is undersized and they wanted him to play center vs Dwight.

Van Gundy on the Hawks: "They are different without Horford. They’ve moved Josh Smith back to the four spot and now they’ve got a little more 3-point shooting in the floor and they shoot it very well."

Only to start out Marvin on Ryan Anderson and SF Smith on SF Turkoglu.

I feel we could use this strategy as much as possible. For example I think Marvin was tough enough for Lavoy Allen and like to see if we could force Iguodala to guard Josh Smith.

I like the 1-2 pick and roll we are running with Teague+JJ.

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 12:18 AM EST reply actions  

Yea hes all bout the mind games even with his own team. Hes said they played like crap tonight,

but fought but still play like crap.. And when they win he says they didnt play a good game. I think hes a bad coach to have.

by SmokedTooMuch013 on Feb 11, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

oh yeah. GO HAWKS!!!

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 12:25 AM EST reply actions  

So i missed the game and only saw the highlights

according to the boxscore, the afro looked good. wish he could play more

Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.

by Throw on Feb 11, 2012 12:32 AM EST reply actions  

Josh Smiths play actually wasn't that brilliant. It came down to him basically being guarded by small forward types.

He could average 20ppg if we had a stretch PF and Josh was regularly guarded by SFs.

Luol Deng? Smith isnt fat anymore, Deng would get demolished on offensive boards and transition
Iguodala? too small
Carmelo? too slow and doesn’t even try on defense, Smith would destroy him on the boards
Pierce? too old and even a 245lb version of Josh Smith pretty much kept him in check last year

Tonight LD saw Marvin was able to defend a 4 and put him their on defense. And we saw Smith on Turkoglu

Offensively, Smith didnt get “respect calls” but was effective when he had some SFs guarding him. Ive been saying he could go beast mode if only he had a big stretch PF. Thats pretty much the worst thing about this snub. He would demolish the SFs he got beaten out by if not for the piss-poor roster construction.

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

oh yeah and dissapointing that Smith could do this regularly if we had a true stretch PF to force the unconventional mismatches we need to be successful.

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions  

just curious

What is your physique like that you considered the 2011 Josh Smith fat?

by frootbooty on Feb 11, 2012 12:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

lol oh man just watching this vid. 2 different players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TcjlpXAppA

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

He looked too big there.

The top ten plays of 06-07 was sick that block on bosh fell down then ran court for dunk an foul was tight. http://youtu.be/ocaatPvI90k

by SmokedTooMuch013 on Feb 11, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

The man's a monster. Funny how all those plays were made on the wing/transition. Power 3 to the core. And if he had a stretch 4 I think like Mike Davis said he'd revolutionize the wing position.

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah I remember and then Al Harrington walked.

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 2:31 AM EST up reply actions  

yep we should go big for a half one game like back then with joe doing

what we got him to do, playing point, when teague is in foul trouble.. 5=zaza 4=ivan 3= marvin 2=smoove 1=jj or just trade jj before next season for a 4 or 5 an move smoove back to the 2 spot. it will be the old smoove all over again with even d.wade hating to play against him!

by SmokedTooMuch013 on Feb 11, 2012 2:53 AM EST up reply actions  

lol trade JJ and keep Marvin? He is the primary creator. you smoked too much!

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Obviously not

Smoove at the 2 would be like putting nedamikong suh at cornerback…both everyone where they should play, but like anyone else, would likely be rendered useless if place in a foreign environment…and yes, guarding sg’s for an entire half would be very foreign to josh. the opposition would unequivicably choose to put someone else on josh so we couldn’t take advantage of the mismatch on our end. Most people here have come to a consensus that joshs greatest flaw is his lack of restraint when it comes to taking jumpers…putting him at SHOOTING guard would not help that.
As for joe at the point…really? Heres a summary of that game..joe with the ball, joe iso in the corner, joe continues to dribble, joe over the triple team with 1 second left, and its no good. nothing more needs to be mentioned on that topic.
As for this being a “big” lineup….zaza and ivan are still UNDERSIZED! They dont grow just because other players are playing out of position and hence hence a height advantage. As a matter of fact, marvin at the 3 isnt always a height advantage for us, so your “big” lineup really only features us having a size position in 2 out of 5 spots….fail.
By your logic, the magic should play howard at pg because then theyd have a “big” lineup?
Sorry man, have to question your basketball iq on this one, especially after you claimed it exists in a more than pedestrian degree after you suggested smoove play the 2 and jj the 1, kinda eradicates your credibility.

by bravesfanldh on Feb 12, 2012 2:02 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

putting him in situations vs SHOOTING guards would have him posting up more. PG+Joe+Josh+shooter+C. Has always been our construction. We do need shooters that can play big and score inside on smaller matchups,

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 12, 2012 3:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Wtf

Are you talking about? We already have that…joe johnson. In case you never noticed, dudes already everything you just asked for out of a sg! Hes bigger, he can play down low against smaller defenders….
And obviously you didn’t read what I said about how the other team would put someone else on josh defensively if he was at sg so that we wouldn’t be capable of taking advantage of that mismatch….so no, he wouldn’t start doin work down low anymore than normal bc he wouldnt have a mismatch

by bravesfanldh on Feb 12, 2012 12:59 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Go back and reread. smoked too much said we should trade JJ, If we had a bigger stretch PF to play Smith in the backcourt then pgs,sgs, and sfs would be the ones trying to keep him out the paint. Thats a mismatch..

We went from Marvin+Josh to Josh+ taller stretch PF then we’d dominate on the offensive boards.

I’m not the one who said to trade Joe Johnson. lol

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 12, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I never even

Read that. All I read was his “we should go bigger for a half” comment, lol

by bravesfanldh on Feb 12, 2012 1:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

And furthermore

Pg+joe+ marv + josh al has always been our construction. With the exception of a few games here and there, jj has always been our sg!
And besides that, I wasnt even talking about that in my first comment. I was talking about the potheads idea that our lineup should be jj, josh, marv, ivan, zaza. Jj at point, josh at the 2, marv at the 3, ivan at pf and zaza at c.
So when you tell me that a pgjoe+josh+sg+center has always been our construction…its fairly innocuous because I never commented on that in the slightest

by bravesfanldh on Feb 12, 2012 1:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

marv has almost always been replaced with a perimeter player to keep Smith inside.

When LD was hired and Smith was bulked up here’s what LD had to say:
Coach Drew speaks of having "interchangeable" pieces on this team, and this leads off into the discussion of possibly playing Josh Smith at the small forward position at times.


"He has the ability to erase a lot of defensive mistakes because of his athleticism. I won’t match him up against a lightning-quick guy where he would have to defend multiple screens. But he certainly will be able to play some 3. At the same time, he can be a tough matchup at the 3 as well. You play him at some 3, there is a high probability he is bigger than that three man, stronger than that three man. Certainly the way to take advantage of that matchup is to post him up. We will certainly try to utilize his ability against a smaller guy. It won’t necessarily be about us adjusting to what the other team does. We want to put the opponent in a position where they have to match up with us."

I said “shooter” not “sg”. But I should have said perimeter player.

Rarely has LD or Woodson put Smith in with no shooters (ie Horford+Pachulia).

Teague+Johnson+Smith (Power SF)
Perimeter Player +Center

Smith would force crazy matchups ie Jodie Meeks is in a catch-22 between Josh Joe or a stretch PF.
But Marvin isn’t that inside outside type of PF. Thats what I was saying.

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 12, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahhhh

Okay, I see where your coming from. Perimeter player makes more sense, haha

by bravesfanldh on Feb 12, 2012 3:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

It absolutely is....

On paper. But weve seen all too often that teague just defers the ball to someone else. I love teague and I think hes going to be great, I just think there would b too much dependence on someone else to get the job done. If he played like jeremy lin (not saying lin is better) and had a mentality that he was the man that everything was going to run through, and furthermore the rest of the team thought the same way (look at ny, everytime they pull down the board they get the ball to lin), then that team would be an automatic contender. But regardless, id take it either way. Only problem is that there is no way we could afford both joe and dwight.

by bravesfanldh on Feb 12, 2012 4:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I was saying they should try it like it was when josh came into the league.

Ivan is big as a power foward just not tall. I bet bosh cant muscle his way inside on him.. An josh wouldnt shoot as many jumpers bc he would post up more or off an running on fast break..

by SmokedTooMuch013 on Feb 12, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

More likely that the 3s defend Josh Smith than 2s. Josh at the 3 needs a true stretch 4 like a Leuer or Kevin Love or Ry Anderson or Dirk. The double team comes with Smith inside and theres no spacing you dont want Ivan Johnson outside.

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 12, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Your right

Bosh probably wouldn’t have much success posting ivan up, but then again, he does have a solid outside game to go to. And also, its not him im worried about. When both wade and lebron play, bosh takes a back seat, the only reason id even worry about him is if one or both of wade and lebron are out.

by bravesfanldh on Feb 12, 2012 3:54 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

And kudos to Jeff. Was that OT pull up J Jordan esque or what? The hangtime, the aiming follow though. It was pretty and a big time shot.

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 12:46 AM EST reply actions  

A very good win, with Smoove balling and Strange coaching

Let’s get something straight. Smoove had a great game. He was killing it on both ends of the floor. He was pretty much unstoppable in second half, after some goofy shots in first, and one strange time when I was pretty much on my knees begging him to pass the ball as he was dribbling it up the court, but he was insistent on dribbling even as he was going to his knees and getting fouled, kid is just funny like that. Still, that was an all world game. And people, please watch that block on Howard, the best block of Smoove since the one on Duncan in SA last year. That block is a classic to see how high he got! Josh Smith is an ALL STAR, except for the dumb coaches.

Now we win, but let’s analyze Mr Einstien, coach from his gut dude, otherwise know as Hawks coach, LD.

Scene 0: Did I see Pargo and Teague playing together? Did Rad get minutes again?

Scene1: While T-Mac and Smoove were killing it in the paint in second half, Mr Einstein decided to go into prevent offense with a few minutes left, please read Jason’s summary. Giving the ball to ISO Joe. At that point, all momentum went into freezer.

Scene 2: Mr Einstein decided at near the end of regulation, to insert a fun new lineup. He brought in, Willie Green whom I like as an offensive spark plug but no defensive genius, to play. Not sure who he brought him in for, but that was the wrong move again.

Scene 3: End of first OT, Einstein called a TO, drew a lob for Smoove while Howard is in the game. I mean I know Smoove flies and all, but has Einstein looked at how high Howard gets? Enough to say clearly Teague could not pass to Smoove, and he tried a floater from 25 feet as time expired!!!!!!

Please LD, don’t coach from your gut. Coach with your brains. Don’t automatically take out Marvin and Teague as first subs. Look at who is hot.

Marvin and particularly Zaza had good games. But for the love of God, can we make free throws near the end. My heart can’t handle games like this.

We’ll talk about the refs later!!!
Last, let’s give a warm hand to new double cheeseburger

by ATLpaul on Feb 11, 2012 7:41 AM EST reply actions  

When is are ppl(except Jason) going to realize Marvin's defensive effect on the game...

In the Pacers game DGranger was 0-7 against Marvin.
In this Anderson had 8pts going into the 4th QT and I think he scored 5pts when Marvin was directly guarding him….The GAME IS PLAYED ON OFFENSE AND DEFENSE!!!

Marvin keeps Joe from guarding bigger more physical wing players and that keeps him fresh to score….Also, Josh doesn’t have to chase stretch PF all over the court.

by Rufus1 on Feb 11, 2012 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

which in turn

Allows Josh to grab 18 def rebounds and make weak side blocks

by frootbooty on Feb 11, 2012 10:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

You're right

Marvin’s work on Anderson did allow Smoove more range defensively. Hopefully LD sees the work Marv has been doing defensively on the opposition SF’s and aloows him more game time to provide the stop. It might be a sign of things to come seeing Marv and T-Mac on the court at the same time.

Do not anger Ivan Johnson, or he'll have to go Kermit Washington on your ass

by Nique Fan on Feb 11, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

doesn’t have to chase stretch PF? yeah he should be guarding the SFs who drive the ball into the paint anyways.

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Drew

would have gotten fired last night on the plane back if I was the owner.

Hawk Str8Talk

by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 11, 2012 11:16 AM EST reply actions  

possibly two of the worst out of bounds calls ever

And going away from Josh at the end of the fourth was unexplainable

by frootbooty on Feb 11, 2012 12:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

im still trying to understand why willie green was in the game

Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.

by Throw on Feb 11, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

they used a small lineup to matchup with Orlando

like they used Teague and pargo or TEague and Kirk

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 11, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

but taking teague out for green in a defensive instance?

Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.

by Throw on Feb 11, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

nearly cost Atlanta the game

And dont get me started on Larry Drew’s substitutions, taking Marvin Williams out in the first quarter and playing Willie Green and Janero Pargo in his place should be a fireable offense.

by Jonesy24 on Feb 11, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Brother

I am right there with you on your opinion of Larry Drew

Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.

by Throw on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree, completly.

You KNOW that Orlando is going to foul, why do you even put Josh in a position to possibly wind up with the ball. He should be the one inbounding, not Marvin, who may be down this season, but is still a far better FT shooter, with a career 80%+
Better yet, substitute T-Mac for Smoove, and let Zaza use his length to inbound. I don’t think Drew consifders Offensive/Defensive substitution late in a game.

by RamblininAlb on Feb 11, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you mean obvious?

Oblivious = unaware. Which has often been used in reference to Josh, but he was the obvious (straight-forward) choice.

by Evil Dallas on Feb 11, 2012 1:39 PM EST reply actions  

a few things

I’m still trying to understand the last 3 minutes offensive decisions from the bench? Huh? Big ups to Zaza for not fouling out quickly. He understood how limited the team’s options were and was able to play major minutes and allow the team to play the 3 point shooters reasonably well.

by Evil Dallas on Feb 11, 2012 2:05 PM EST reply actions  

And with his effort defensively, he was still able to grab his share of caroms as well

Do not anger Ivan Johnson, or he'll have to go Kermit Washington on your ass

by Nique Fan on Feb 11, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Smoove put up gaudy numbers and certainly sent a message too whomever votes for the All-Stars.

I am glad to see that you tooted the Zaza, Marvin horn too. They were key in picking up the victory last night. Marvin was efficient, period. Zaza brought the kryptonite.

by RamblininAlb on Feb 11, 2012 2:19 PM EST reply actions  

Balance..

Hawks
9-4 at Home – 9-5 on the Road

I don’t think our seeding will matter….This team can only prove their worth in the playoffs and they know it.

by Rufus1 on Feb 11, 2012 3:00 PM EST reply actions  

if we had traded Horford before his contract escalated for those Rocket's expirings...

2012-2013

just look who are free agents.

that would not have been an automatic title team?

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 8:14 PM EST reply actions  

Jeff Teague.Joe Johnson.Josh Smith.Ryan Anderson.Dwight Howard

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 11, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

#12 is that Josh Powell lol

anyway I dont know if I could bring myself to cheer for Ryan Anderson

Ivan Johnson once strangled a man with a cordless phone

by Throw on Feb 12, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I want a title in Atlanta. Too be honest Ry Anderson is a b**tch and Van Gundy's baby. I also don't like Dwight's whining or his over the backs and fouls he got away with last night. Ie he went for a Smith pump fake and bumped

Smith on the way down. No foul call.

Anderson and Dwight are talented players but weak mentally. But Anderson showed me yesterday he can post up small guys (Jodie Meeks? Jrue Holiday anyone) and hit the 3.

They have flaws but is that not an automatic title starting 5?

sf Josh Smith + PF Jon Leuer/PF Ryan Anderson/Kevin Love/Dirk Nowitzki > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}

by PointGuardSlim on Feb 12, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

+100

He is a douche.

Do not anger Ivan Johnson, or he'll have to go Kermit Washington on your ass

by Nique Fan on Feb 12, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about the Atlanta Hawks.

Managers

Zaza_pachulia_small hawksdawgs

Walker_hawks_small Jason Walker

339989_2352026010636_1549728496_32463242_1925189807_o_small Kris Willis

Authors

Str8talk_logo_main_200p_small Hawk Str8Talk

317753_2142423076352_1119450085_31772239_660825236_n_small Nate Butler Jr.

Website_logo_small William Sevidal