Josh Smith All-Star Snub Explained
by Jason Walker on Feb 10, 2012 7:05 AM EST
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Josh Smith was snubbed again for selection into the NBA All-Star Game. Don't get it twisted, while Josh will likely put on a brave face and soldier on, he desperately wants the validation an invitation to such a game provides.
There is a problem with Smith's logic -- the respect he seeks lies in a place he may never break through to -- NBA coaches.
Among fans, pundits and his peers, everyone knows Smith's value. Yes, blogs like ours know the warts in Smith's game all too well also, but we're well aware and have documented of all the goodness Smith provides and has provided this season, especially since the loss of Al Horford.
Smith's well documented proclivity to shooting jump shots is maybe the most over-reported item on the Hawks nationally. That folks, which surely include opposing coaches, know this and see him still shoot them implies a level of stubbornness on Smith's behalf and his reticence to change that aspect of his game bears the focus of observers notes rather than the dozen or so other things on the court that Smith does the right way.
This, combined with the annually bottom 10 in the NBA pace the Hawks play which suppresses Smith's averages to the non-advanced statistical mind, is what has kept Smith out of the running for a spot the last three seasons, where Smith has been essentially the same player productivity and habit wise.
Smith's case is not unique this year -- he is one of many who could claim foul in the East, a list that includes Ryan Anderson, Carlos Boozer, Greg Monroe, Tyson Chandler, Louis Williams, Brandon Jennings and Cleveland rookie sensation Kyrie Irving. That the coaches excluded exciting players like Smith and Irving surely will be open for criticism, but Smith didn't stand above any on that list, at best ranking among them.
Smith is likely to be a player branded for the things he doesn't do right rather than the things he does. The parts of his game that are right are enough to get him into this discussion, to place him fourth among Eastern power forwards this season, but coaches will likely always see the bad in Smith's game and choose to punish him or at best not reward him. It's not enough that Smith is at the level he is -- to get their vote, he must realize all he possibly could be.
The same is not asked of other All-Stars, an example is that of his 2-time All-Star teammate, Al Horford. Horford has plenty to improve on in his game, yet his hard-working, good-guy demeanor and lack of obvious flaunting of things he shouldn't do, according to all of us, means he doesn't have to score 100 percent on his skills test to get coaches approval like Smith does.
Every jump shot, every time he doesn't give the ball to the guard to run a fast break, every scowl is a mark in the coaches' ledger against him. It's not necessarily right that they do it that way, that they ask more from Josh than maybe they would Luol Deng, but it's the reality of the situation for Smith.
Play ball with the doing things their way or don't play ball in the All-Star game. For Josh Smith, the validation of his excellence on the court remains as far away as taking the next step up to differentiate himself from the pack, a goal that with every passing season maybe slipping further and further from his grasp.
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this is world’s greatest humorous article!!
luol deng, iguodala, Ryan Anderson, Carlos Boozer, Greg Monroe, Louis Williams, Brandon Jennings are better players than Smith? i think you don’t know basketball!!
I don't think that is what he said
and maybe before you make your first comment on a site you need to do a little more reading before you post.
@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis
He still has a chance.
There will probably be two or three players drop out due to injury or rest. I am looking at Peirce and Deng right now.
Good post.
I know Smith is upset, but I figured this would happen since Johnson is the second-best SG in the conference. Johnson was a shoo-in.
After the Heat trifecta, there were only nine remaining spots, eight if you consider Johnson’s inclusion. Thus, the Hawks were not going to get another spot when teams like NY, Boston, Chicago, Philly, Orlando, etc. were going to be represented.
It’s simply a numbers game, as many players are selected to appease the big market fans.
GATA!
You must be kidding with this post
“Smith’s case is not unique this year — he is one of many who could claim foul in the East, a list that includes Ryan Anderson, Carlos Boozer, Greg Monroe, Tyson Chandler, Louis Williams, Brandon Jennings and Cleveland rookie sensation Kyrie Irving. "
Perhaps that is why the majority of fans said he is the greatest snub in both East and West.
Perhaps that is why all four Charles and crew said he belonged.
These other guts you mention, don’t rank even in the same country. Come on Man
Statistically, they have the same argument that Smith does.
by Jason Walker on Feb 10, 2012 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
My point...
Ryan Anderson, One dimensional outside shooter. He can not affect the game same as Smoove, and without Howard, he is just another outside shooter.
Carlos Boozer, 3rd best option on Chicago team. Even Chicago fans want him out of that town. Speaking of PFs that shoot from outside.
Greg Monroe, plays for Pistons, enough said.
Tyson Chandler, As the 3rd “supposed” All Star on NY team, who is supposed to be the difference, can’t change their fortunes. To have a losing record with 3 quality All Star players, should make no one from that team be present.
Louis Williams, A case could be made for him, but, surely a team of interchangable parts that are Sixers, can’t have 2 selections. The coaches got the right choice in Iggy.
Banden Jennings, A better case than Deron can be made for him. But only one of the two.
Kyrie Irving, A rookie
None affects fortune of their team and make their team as successful as Smoove
Um...what?
Ryan Anderson 2011-12: 16.5ppg, 7.4reb, 42%fg, 84%ft
Josh Smith 2011-12: 15.6ppg, 8.9reb, 47%fg, 54%ft
I fail to feel outraged by Anderson over Smith.
You know, if Josh got his FT% up to just 70%, he’d be having a career year. But why learn the basics?
Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl Google+: Ed G
And it's so mind numbing his inconsistency there
he was around 70% his first four years in the league. He dropped the next two, but got back over 72% last year, only to fall off this year. Is it focus? Something in his technique? Just so strange. I can’t think of others who would have such swings on FTs.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 10, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder about drops in FT shooting, too.
Kirk has been substantially worse in his time as a Hawk than at any other point in his career. (Of course, he’s hardly taking any….) It’s always seemed like the kind of thing that should be more consistent to me, too.
But did he have the fluctuations up and down and up and down again
is what I’m saying.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 10, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
What about defensive stats?
Anderson doesn’t compare
"Parfaits might be the most delicious thing on the whole damn planet"
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Feb 10, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
We're not debating that, Paul.
All I was saying is that, statistically Josh didn’t differentiate himself enough to overcome the double standard coaches have for him that other players/All-Stars don’t have to meet.
If he were having a statistical year that dwarfed those on the same plane as he, on paper, then they wouldn’t have had a choice.
by Jason Walker on Feb 10, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Before the 3 game slide he was probably in
He didn’t do well in those games and I assume that most people thought the Hawks were coming back down to earth in the wake of Horford’s injury
To add Josh, you have to remove someone though
is he more deserving than Deng? Pierce? Johnson? Iguodola? Maybe, but not by enough to over come their record (for Deng), name recognition (for Pierce and Joe) or top player status (for Iggy).
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 10, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
But you have to consider other factors...
The Hawks, barring injuries, will not get 1/6 of the All Star team. They just won’t.
GATA!
That 54% from the line isn't helping, either.
But yeah, he is a coach’s nightmare. The fans can cry foul all they want about numbers and all that, but his attitude and seeming lack of coachability hang around his neck like an albatross.
I’ll throw out my opinion: It’s NOT unfair that he gets snubbed for this stuff. He is the real-life Rod Tidwell. “Look at my numbers!” Makes no difference if they think you’re high on yourself.
Josh…help me help you.
Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl Google+: Ed G
After sleeping on it and waking up
I can understand pierce, but still confused on the Deron Williams and ill stick by that. But if someone could explain to me how Deng made it? Is he even having that great of a year or is it because he is on the #1 team in the east and they had to put a second person in
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
Lu's not having his best year statistically
But he is having a pretty good year – and they have the best record in the league. I think it helps that it’s the Bulls’ defense that is so vaunted, which isn’t easy to measure statistically.
I think Deng and Josh have equally good cases
Deng really is a good defensive player as well, and he’s really the Bulls’ second best player (just barely ahead of Boozer), and the Bulls have the best record. If Josh had made it over Deng, I think fans would be crying foul over Deng instead.
It’s the ‘Melo issue that’s blocking Josh. Fans that voted for ’Melo but think that Josh got snubbed have only themselves to blame.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
by Bronn on Feb 10, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hes not that good
and hes not one of the 12 best players in the Eastern Conference.
Josh is a VET...
That doesn’t play to his strengths….
Coaches aren’t going to REWARD his behaviour, becasue they don’t want their players acting like him(Coaches are like PARENTS)…..Even if your 9 year old was successful backing the car into the garage, he would still get punished for BAD BEHAVIOUR.
Many on this blog/city give Josh the benefit of the doubt for having POOR COACHING, but the COACHING FRATERNITY doesn’t…THAT IS WHY AL GETS PICKED ABOVE HIM.
PS. Only former players defend Josh, not coaches.
Did coaches see the commitment he made this year to self-improvement?
He came to camp in the best shape of his life.
Any one watching him, sees that he has made tremendous effort to stay in control of his emotions. He has lost his temper much less this year. In fact, he even is trying his best to not always go for thunder dunks, because that gets his juices flowing. Do coaches look at fact Lion went down and Smoove has been the man in middle for Hawks? Do coaches even read? Do coaches know how much he brings to table?
Do coaches look at Pierce and Dirk, and wonder why they came back in such poor shape? Do they wonder what is that doing to hurt their teams? That to me is as much of a coach killer as any They see what they want to see it seems to me.
I agree Josh should have been an Allstar...
but I know why he isn’t and I didn’t expect him to get selected.
How many coaching camps you think these coaches have gone to together and talked about Josh?
Imagine what they say when they game plan against the Hawks?…(“He has Alllstar Stats, but not an Allstar Brain”)
That's what I wrote.. it's a double standard applied to Josh that others don't have to meet.
by Jason Walker on Feb 10, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Why would other coaches
watch Josh that closely, all the while keeping a totally open mind and giving him every benefit of the doubt?
Other coaches see Josh when we play them, and in whatever game prep they do. You’re acting like they have an obligation to look for the positives in him and weigh him fairly against everyone else based on what’s happening this season. I doubt coaches spend that much time on the All-Star reserve selections, and honestly I’d be pretty miffed if it turned out coaches for my team were spending valuable coaching time on it.
To grow, one must learn to not just look at self but others
If you are a Doctor, you need to read and look at research of other Doctors. It is constant reading and learning.
If you are a teacher, it is about constant teachings and technology applied by others in your field of work.
If you are a coach, one of the ways to stay on top of your game, is to analyze and learn about not just your team but your opponents, their strengths and weaknesses. At least the more important pieces.
It is like me being a fan of Hawks, but knowing what Bynum is about. What McRoberts is about. What Troy Murphy is about. What Kapono is about. You have to follow the important players to improve and game plan. It is part of any coach’s job responsibilities. Otherwise, you live in a vacuum and only game plan based on word of mouth and common sayings.
A coach’s job is teaching about the game and other players to his or her own players. If you are a coach, you have plenty of time to study and learn. Even with the condensed schedule, and hectic travel, they should be on top of it with blogs, internet, recorded media, stats to learn who is balling and who is not. They know.
But there is bias and pre-conceived notions. A bias that extends to players not being coachable, which is what this is all about. It is not merit based, it is simple notion that Smoove is not coachable, because that is what is imprinted in coaches brains as result of seeing an 18 year old clash, and not seeing the positives and growth that every one else is seeing. It is a bias built on insecurity
You are talking about things that are inherent in a job
Sure, I read the research of others to stay on top of my field, and to enhance my own research.
But if asked to vote for the top researching doctor in my field? I’m not going to take a whole lot of time to go back and weigh every aspect of each person. I’m not going to catalog each of their weaknesses and how they have improved over time. I am going to review the options in my mind and make my choice based on an overall opinion formed over time.
I’m sure coaches know a great deal about Josh’s overall game. I’m sure they game plan based on it. I don’t think they pay tons of attention to what he does for most of the season. I don’t think they notice things like whether he has stayed in control of his temper, or improved his shot selection (outside of what stats represent). I doubt that a coach who watched Josh put up several jumpers during their game would note it as any kind of deviation from other days. I doubt they notice he came to camp in shape, and even if they did I doubt that counts as a bonus on his scorecard.
In other words, choosing all-star reserves is not an inherent part of coaching. It’s a side job. I don’t think any of them bother to sit down and carefully weigh out the pros and cons of each player to make the “best” selection. At most, I think they have an idea in their heads, and maybe check that against stats.
Self Improvement?
Points: down
FG%: down
FT%: down (almost 20%!!!)
3pt%: down
Scoring and shooting efficiency: down
Everything else is about even from last year.
He did lose weight but it doesn’t seem to be translating to results.
Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl Google+: Ed G
improvement or lack thereof
It’s so early in the season, I expect some of those to pick up. It didn’t help that the All Star game roster got set 20-some games into the season.
If he stays injury free, I bet he averages around 17 and 10 for the season. I don’t expect his fg % to improve much, as he has really fallen in love with the jump shot again this season.
You are not looking at the whole picture
Look at his per and Hollinger efficiency rating to see how he is performing.
As such, he is playing at highest efficiency of his career.
And take into context, there is no Lion to take attention off him. At this point, if they are not double teaming JJ, they are running after him when he gets close to the paint with a double team.
It's not his best year by PER or Win Shares either
Nor by his 82games on/off numbers.
He was definitely snubbed two years ago, which was his best season ever. That was also the same year that he made a greater commitment to being an interior player, which led to improved scoring efficiency, more assists (because the passing lanes opened, and because people actually defend him when he’s on the inside), higher offensive rebounding rates, and his defense didn’t suffer. He deserved it that year if he’s ever deserved it, and I wonder how things might have changed if he had made it that year. Would he have decided that being the player people expect him to be is worth it if he finally gets the accolades? Perhaps. But instead, he turned around back into a jumpshooter, trying to be Dirk Nowitzki instead of Charles Barkley.
One of his problems this year is that he’s more inefficient offensively than ever. Jumpers from 16-23 are generally bad ideas, regardless who takes them-league average shooting from that range is something like 38%, and it’s only worth two points. Three point shots at least have the extra reward to counter-act the extra risk. Josh’s shots at the rim are still down (though just slightly up from last year, a career low), and he’s taking a TON more long two point shots than he ever has. He’s hurting his own case. And he’s not hitting a significantly higher percentage of those long twos than he ever was.
He is doing some things really well, though. His rebounding rate is the highest it has ever been, perhaps responding to Horford’s injury. His turnovers are down, and he’s getting assists at a good rate for a PF. He’s stuffing the box scores decently, but it is hard for him to overcome how inefficient he is offensively. And efficiency matters, which is why they don’t like to award chuckers who put up tons of points for bad teams.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
Yup, 2009-2010 was the year.
Gerald Wallace and the fact there were two Hawks already on there did him in, IMO.
Great summary of his current stats roll — at this point, he isn’t going to change and therefore his desire to be validated by the All-Star process will slip away because the coaches and perception aren’t going to change either unless he is having a monster season statistically — though honestly he will only likely have a monster statistical season if he makes the changes he is resisting.
But his comments this morning at shootaround about it being a problem with who he knows and that he can’t play any better lend insight as to his future with the AS game (he won’t have one).
by Jason Walker on Feb 10, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
His comments this morning didn’t help his case. And it also really shows that these things matter to him. But he’s also not being honest with himself, either, if he can’t reflect on his own level of play, and know that it could be higher.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
Heres the thing
Josh Smith didnt make it 3 years ago when he did everything he needed to do, stay inside, work the offensive glass, be a force on defense.
He didnt make it this year even though he actually had a narrative this time, being the best player on a good team while Al Horford is out. Hes probably never going to make it based on things out of his control unless the Hawks focus the offense through him and play at a faster pace.
Josh has unfortunate timing.
He’s on the tail end of what has been a nearly set-in-stone all-star set for a number of years. No question we have repeat all-stars making the team on reputation over play in the present year. But it seems to take a few years of decline for them to get left off.
And now as they begin to be left off, what Josh is and can do is old news. There’s a new crop of exciting and surprising young players who are enticing to voters as the old guys get left off.
I think one of the tougher spots to be in, in general, is trying to make your first all-star team after several years in the league. It’s almost like how coming back for your junior/senior year hurts your draft stock, with teams becoming overly comfortable with the excellent parts of your game and having time to really focus on the drawbacks.
Clearly he is an ALL STAR except in coach's eyes
IT is revealing to me that I hear Pierce himself say he is surprised to be an ALL STAR.
I can clarly say Smoove is more deserving than Deng. The same Deng that up until 2 years ago, when MVP started balling, Chicago was thinking of trading him.
I want to know how can any of those guys do what Smoove does night in and night out. If you answer yourself they can’t, meaning play 5 and 4 and need be 3, then you have your answer. On both ends of the court
ok let's put it another way for you
Let’s say for the sake of argument both Deng and Smoove are tradable.
Let’s say Lakers and Celtics, two flagship franchises are the buyers.
Who do you think either of those two teams go for? Deng or Smoove
See, I am taking Chicago and Hawks factors out of it. That should crystallize things for you.
I have more data points, but I stop…
No, you never stop.
It’s as if you believe the sheer volume of words will eventually sway people to your opinion.
It’s OK for people to be bummed for Josh without thinking this is the greatest injustice in all of human history. You are seriously undervaluing Lu and the stuff he does.
So let me put it another way for you:
If I’m choosing sides in a pickup game, I take Josh. If I’m starting a team, I probably take Lu. If I’m selecting reserves for an all-star game, I’d take them both over some of the other selections, and I see a good justification for each to be on the team.
+1
tonight he was brilliant – except he almost lost the game by shooting a shot he can’t make consistently. he didn’t need any of those jumpers to dominate the magic inside…
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Feb 10, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
If Lakers or Celtics are choosing
They pick Smoove. I was not asking if you are picking, I already know you are biased towards not picking him. Which is why I gave you scenario of third party teams.
Let me tell you another reason why Smoove is more valuable ,
Deng plays with the MVP.
Deng plays with 2 seven footers.
Deng plays with an almost another ALL STAR (Boozer)
Deng could not carry the load by himself, which is what Smoove is doing.
You miss those points. So I get it, if you want mechanical SF shooters that do a good job of defending, you take Deng. If you want a MAN that can play 4 and 5 and 3 and do everything like shot blocking and highlight dunks and scoring and defending, choice is clear. Deng is a commodity, an appliance, an Acoord or Camry, many of his like around the league. Smoove is one of a kind, A ferrari a Lamorghini.
But the injustice of what this ALL STAR selection is about, is not only that they choose 5 freaking SFs and one PF in East, it is that they leave Granger on the sidelines, and pick Deng, because of MVP and 2 seven footers.
But I still think Deng should be an All Star, ahead of Pierce and Deron
As for too many words, hey listen, I didn’t think there was a penalty for typing on this site
by ATLpaul on Feb 11, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And you aren't biased?
What’s your authority for Lakers or Cs choosing in that scenario?
And why you think I’m more biased than you because I’ve watched both teams is beyond me. I’ve seen them both, cheered for them both, and am pretty familiar with both strengths and weaknesses of each. I’ve agreed that Josh is deserving. I’ve stated my case as plainly as I know how. Apparently the voting coaches agree with me. Your post above is about as clear as it can get that you overvalue Josh and undervalue Lu.
Yet instead of agreeing to disagree, or even acknowledging that there is room for disagreement on this, you write another humongous post restating your opinion.
I did not miss the points you think I did. I considered them. I decided they were outweighed by other points that I also considered.
Josh doesn't get any credit for production with absence of Horford.
Yes his numbers should go up but he has to battle with the other teams best post players both PF and C.
I know tussling with much bigger players for a game, by the 4th quarter your body is worn down.I would think coaches would take this into consideration.
But there are 29 different personalities. Various spectrums from Popovich to Mark Jackson.
Robbed, no other way to explain it
I just hope Josh use this as fuel to kick ass in the postseason. Pierce hasn’t been playing the entire season and only got hot a cpl weeks ago. Josh put up better numbers than Deng and in my opinion, Rondo deserved the nod before Williams. I bet if it was Al, he would have got the nod…just ridiculous!
"Parfaits might be the most delicious thing on the whole damn planet"
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Feb 10, 2012 2:39 PM EST reply actions
Good write-up
You hit the nail on the head. Josh is held to a higher standard by coaches and this year he didn’t reach it. Is he good enough to be an all-star? Yes. The problem is there are other players with equal resumes. For Josh to get selected he has to outplay everyone. Just being good enough isn’t going to get it. Every bad game, every squabble is going to be magnified. Not fair, but the way it is.
2 years ago I felt he reached it but instead they rewarded Gerald Wallace. Crash had a better rebounding number but his all around numbers were slight off of Josh. The selection of David Lee as a replacement was even more upsetting because anyone who really watches the games would know of his defensive softness.
Last year with the dip in the standings it was hard to argue a 3rd all-star for the Hawks, so Josh was odd man out because of competition at the position. This year I felt Josh only chance was for the team to stay hot and remain tied with Miami (3-1 on the home stand would have done it) so that 2 Hawks all-stars didn’t seem out of whack. Honestly it might not have helped as Igoudala was the only Sixers all-star and Deng was the 2nd Bulls all-star. Pierce was the only Celtic all-star. I’d argue that Josh does more than Chris Bosh, but I doubt the coaches would ever vote that way because of reputation. Josh is as deserving as any of the forward reserves, but he’s not miles ahead of any one of them and that’s what it is going to take to get the all-star stamp of approval.
by Evildallas on Feb 10, 2012 3:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+1
Josh was much more deserving of an All-star berth in 2010. The improvement in his defensive game was recognised in his selection to the all-defense 2nd team that year, and his fg% was up beacuse he was working harder inside, and his assist numbers were the best of his career.
Ivan Johnson - the new Xavier McDaniel
Josh Smith is a small forward playing the PF position. He is a much smaller version of Dwight.
If I’m starting a team, I take Josh and surround him with shooters and play him at the SF. And when Luol Deng has to score on Smith Luol fails.
People say they know his strengths and Smith doesnt play to them? what?
He’s a uberathletic PF. how many times do we see Blake Griffin push the ball ahead ignoring point guards.
His strength is the transition game. Playing inside on weaker players, not crossing up stronger players and rolling to the hole.
He’d be better suited at SF and no way I take Deng over Smith. Smith is a SF Dwight Howard, get a stretch 4 and a center and let him dominate boards and transition.
If Smith is underwhelming at times you have to consider hes playing out of position
sf Josh Smith + PF Troy Murphy/PF Jon Leuer/PF Motiejunas > tweener Josh Smith + tweener Marvin Williams
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
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