Atlanta Hawks News: Defensive Improvements And Sub Patterns
Defensive Improvements
Despite the small sample size, the numbers indicate that the Atlanta Hawks are a better defensive team and several people around the league are starting to take notice. Bradford Doolittle of Basketball Prospectus wrote about the subject after watching the Hawks in Chicago. Doolittle writes that the Hawks have not made any substantial roster moves that explain the improvement. He also talks about head coach Larry Drew's insistence on defense has finally gotten through.
MC weighed in with his thoughts here on both points and I agree. Atlanta may not have went out and acquired a defensive stopper but they have done two things in my opinion. No. 1 Jeff Teague is playing big minutes for the club and for the first time in memory, Atlanta has been able to slow down dribble penetration. This slows down the need for rotations and also quickens close outs because help defenders don't have to be focused on coming over to cut off drives to the basket.
As much a fan as I was of Jamal Crawford and Mike Bibby's time in an Atlanta uniform, they impacted the Hawks defense negatively every night. Atlanta had to game plan for their deficiencies every night so much so that Mike Woodson switched every single screen in an effort to minimize the effect. By simply replacing those two with young legs in Teague and adding Kirk Hinrich has in my opinion led to the improvement. I don't think this can be underscored but you may have to have followed the team day in and day out to notice it.
Second, I think by adding vets like Tracy McGrady to the bench, Atlanta has improved their Basketball IQ at both ends of the floor. Guys like T-Mac and Vladimir Radmanovic certainly aren't going to put fear in many teams at this stage of their career but collectively combined with Zaza Pachulia have built some good chemistry on the floor. What I have noticed particularly on the offensive end is that the second unit often gets by not so much on talent but by making the correct basketball play whether it is an extra pass or taking advantage of a mismatch. It is quite possible that this is true on the defensive side of the court as well.
Even more appealing is that we have started to see this type of thing carry over to the starters as well and I think that has to do with the positive veteran presence of guys like Radmanovic, McGrady and Jerry Stackhouse in practice. It is still a small sample size but one thing to watch for is whether or not Atlanta can sustain this type of play for the season.
Sub Patterns
One thing that emerged from the loss in Chicago was how Larry Drew used his bench and that the Chicago Bulls seemed to find their rhythm offensively against the Hawks second unit. Chicago is one of the teams that John Hollinger points out that doesn't seem to be protecting any of its players from the condensed schedule and are playing players heavy minutes. Both Derrick Rose and Luol Deng played the entire second half against the Hawks and are among the league leaders in minutes played. Hollinger wonders if they continue to do that if there will be repercussions come playoff time.
Hollinger also notes Larry Drew as one of the coaches that seems to be protecting his starters in the early part of the season.
Similarly, Larry Drew's Atlanta team lost the battle Tuesday night, but the Hawks may be winning the war. Joe Johnson averages 34.5 minutes and no other Hawk is above 32.2. An early blowout of New Jersey helped skew those numbers down, but the Hawks have overused Johnson in particular in recent seasons and have managed him much better this season. As long as Tracy McGrady stays upright -- he left Tuesday's game with a knee problem -- Atlanta may be in good shape come May.
Drew may not have had any choice but to protect his guys due to the Hawks starting the season with nine games in 12 days. His decisions on substitutions against Chicago sparked a spirited Twitter debate between myself and one of my fellow Peachtree Hoops writers.
Had the Chicago game been close heading to the fourth, then we might have saw the Hawks ride their starters a little longer. They had a big lead entering the fourth and as they have done all season, they were trying to buy their starters a few extra minutes on the bench. Personally I didn't have a problem with the tactic at the time of course it is a debate whether or not the Hawks second unit should ever be on the floor at the same time in a game. Still they had a decent sized lead in the game. Drew's decision is one though that is easily second guessed after the fact. If the Hawks win it is one that is quickly forgotten.
The point Hollinger makes here is that teams can't complain constantly about the schedule and then go out and ignore it during the games. They have to strike a balance and it may in fact cost a team or two a game over the course of the season. Coaches are going to have to decide when to go for the victory and when to be a little more cautious because going all in every night is going to have nasty repercussions come playoff time.
For more on the Atlanta Hawks check out SB Nation Atlanta, follow Peachtree Hoops on Twitter and check out the Peachtree Hoops Facebook Fan Page.
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Great Points
I would only contribute one part and that’s that I want Larry Drew to protect the minutes. I won’t be a hypocrite about that because it was absolutely an issue that I gave Mike Woodson some heat for during an 82 game schedule, but if you read my comments during the game on the game thread – I questioned that specific sequence in the 4th quarter. So, for the specific point of having the entire 2nd team out there while Deng and Rose are on the floor in the beginning of the 4th quarter – yes, I believe that Drew made a major tactical error during a very winnable game. Were there other reasons that we should have won that game? Yes, but I want the coach to not be one of those reasons. Not trying to stir our Twitter debate, but I just want to make sure you know that I think your points are valid in the macro, not so much during that 3 minute stretch when I’m screaming at the TV saying – please get these guys out of there before the momentum is strong and D. Rose gets completely going.
Hawk Str8Talk
The above points weren't really meant as a retort to our debate
We were really debating some in game issues. Hollinger’s points are more of a big picture view
@Kris_Willis
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Hopefully the second unit can bounce back against MIA
and hopefully Marvin Williams and Tracy McGrady can play on the court at the same time.
This
I’m not giving LD any credit on his substitutions until manages to find ways to give both guys more minutes at the expense of Willie Green. Or, at least, Marvin, whose minutes are WAY down this year, and his production is way up on a per-minute basis. There’s no need to give T-Mac more minutes, but his minutes shouldn’t always result from replacing Marvin, regardless of how well Marvin is playing.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
yup exactly my thoughts
"A ‘No’ uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Jesus
"We were real solid on both ends of the floor today and had positive energy coming from the bench tonight."
Jeff Teague
Serious Question
Maybe the best way for Kris and I to have addressed this issue would have been to determine whether it’s better to have won the game and played the starters a few more minutes (3 in my opinion) OR to have lost a hard fought game in the fashion we did, but have saved the starters those minutes.
I side with the former because I believe that the effect on their legs is outweighed by the confidence built from a back to back road sweep of the top two teams in the league. Yes, I think we know we can play against these guys, but if we soundly beat both teams on their home courts – we and they get a psychological bump and downgrade that I think is more important than the minutes. Let the minutes get shaved from the Kings game or the Timberwolves game or some game where those 3 minutes doesn’t matter or even causes a loss then where we already know – hey, that team isn’t better than us and also, that team won’t even be in the playoffs, so it’s just one of those games that teams lose. I prefer that scenario to the potential damage that comes from us not being able to finish a game AND the Bulls thinking – we’re never out of a game with the Hawks. Sure, they probably wouldn’t think that anyway, but I like a little bug in their head saying – damn, we got handled by the Hawks on the end of a back to back at home. That is worth the guys playing longer in that game and I think it would have a more positive effect on the season, but I’d like Kris’ take on that.
Hawk Str8Talk
Well
Like all fans I would want the hawks to go for the win….however weeks like this make it imperitive to get rest for the players especially at the beginning. And it’s not like we’re not playing them again this week at home, why not stick to the minute-saving plan that might actually work out for the veterans? There are more back-to-backs and three sets of five or more game road trips to think about as well.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
I agree, I would have rather won the game
The point I was attempting to make was that it was easier to determine or criticize substitution patterns after the fact. The Hawks have a big lead and were trying to buy a few extra minutes. Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe when the time out was called there was around 9:40 left in the game and the lead had been cut from 15 to 11. I may be off on the specifics but I do know that they starters didn’t come back in with the game tied. That was the point I was trying to make. As a coach I would expect my starters to be able to come back in and hold a double digit lead after a dominating a team for three quarters.
That is my thinking
@Kris_Willis
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If
that happened I’d agree with you, but that was not the case (check the play by play on ESPN to confirm). we started the quarter with a 12 point lead. We took a TO at 9:29 and had a 5 point lead where we brought back the starters. But the lead was lost and Deng and Rose had turned the game around…
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 5, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
the bench can carry them, save the minutes
you can see the change on the court when they are playing, both off and def. They are rotating faster nobody is standing around pointing at each other (a few instances) but you can see them talking about missed assignments. On off its a different team now. Points are coming from other guys getting easy shots, the ball moves. The Bulls gm the other night I actually criticized JJ for taking some bad shots down the stretch. I never had done that, because he was always the best option. He still is but now he doesn’t have to carry all of the load. If guys are now moving around to places they can score from Joe has more options, no need to force a shot…..Hawks need to learn how to handle pressure….they choked at the line in CHI, plain and simple the game was won but they heard DROSE coming behind them and choked
The bench unit is mostly solid
But Willie Green is an annoying horrible basketball player, and fewer minutes for him while more for Marvin would continue to help us improve. Marvin ALSO works his tail off on defense, and he’s useful on the other end of the court. He’s not a guy that will fall apart if he has to average 30 minutes, or even 28 minutes.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
yup
marvin seems to be playing the best i have seen him in years, but yet we take his minutes away with the god awful willie green.
"A ‘No’ uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Jesus
"We were real solid on both ends of the floor today and had positive energy coming from the bench tonight."
Jeff Teague
Willie Green seems like one of those guys who has no conscious what so ever.
He’s just coming into the game trying to get his. Every time the ball touches his hands in the half-court you can count on him launching it.
by BravesFanScout on Jan 5, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
so he's the new mario west?
"A ‘No’ uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Jesus
"We were real solid on both ends of the floor today and had positive energy coming from the bench tonight."
Jeff Teague
It wasn’t the bench that missed 3 free throws in the final minute that would have given the Hawks a victory.
In hindsight, I don't mind the loss with the amount of games early on the Hawks schedule.
I think LD should bring along T-Mac (knee) and Marvin (back) gradually early on. And as much grief we are giving LD, should Rose and/or Deng breakdown to overuse then LD made the right move based on the Chi game. And come April, May and hopefully June who will remember a loss in the 2nd week of the season? Not I. So IF LD has a plan in place to rest players, he cant sacrifice for win now because before you know it, he will start doing every game and that defeats the purpose. I think we are a solid team and we will get a better indication of the Hawks after the Bulls game.
I want to win the WAR...
I have seen the what the Hawks look like after playing a TON of minutes during the regular season….It is call SWEEP in the 2nd round.
by Rufus1 on Jan 5, 2012 11:19 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It is not a question of playing the bench or not
We have to play the bench. But what I have a problem with, are the sub patterns where all five bench players are on the floor at the same time. To simply say it is ok for LD to do that, because starters need rest, ignores the fact that it is Coach’s responsibility at any given time to have a mix on the floor that is competitive and gives starters rest
Honestly surprised that LD hasn't gone with a short lineup
Just because LD’s in the last year of his deal. Maybe he realizes that post-season success is the real measuring stick for him and that would be a good thing.
i would love to see a tall lineup
of marvin tmac and joe
"A ‘No’ uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Jesus
"We were real solid on both ends of the floor today and had positive energy coming from the bench tonight."
Jeff Teague
wait how am i just finding this out
Knicks, as Part of Effort to Boost Defense, Add Ex-Hawks Coach as Assistant
So this whole time he has had a job?
"A ‘No’ uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Jesus
"We were real solid on both ends of the floor today and had positive energy coming from the bench tonight."
Jeff Teague
Can't believe you didn't know
Diaw was living proof that the only thing easier than scoring for D’Antoni’s old Suns teams is scoring against D’Antoni’s Knicks. Diaw happened to play a season for Woodson with the Atlanta Hawks, and didn’t exactly remember any particular defensive genius. "When I was playing for him in Atlanta, I couldn’t tell if we were playing great defense," Diaw said with a laugh. "We won 13 games."
I know where the bodies are buried.....I buried some of them myself. - David Stern
by a hooter's baby on Jan 5, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
i honestly didnt know
then again the mike bibby signing now makes sense. I thought this whole time he just dreamed of new iso strategies. btw, it would always kill me whenever they zoomed in on him during games he would just yell “iso”
"A ‘No’ uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Jesus
"We were real solid on both ends of the floor today and had positive energy coming from the bench tonight."
Jeff Teague
Hahaha! Did Diaw really say that?
Not surprised though. It is really the mentality of the players that allow them to become porous on defense. It doesn’t help that players in Mike D’Antoni’s “Seven Seconds or Less” philosophy creates numerous opportunities for fast break points if you don’t have the right players for the system. What people don’t realize is he had the perfect complementary players in Phoenix that played “good enough.” Raja Bell, Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion were key in that lineup.
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Jan 5, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
D'Antoni was getting questions yesterday about switching every screen
Wondered how long that would take?
@Kris_Willis
+Kris Willis
facebook.com/krisawillis

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