Hawks Sticking With Current Roster For Now
by Kris Willis on Jan 27, 2012 12:00 PM EST
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Those looking for the Atlanta Hawks to add a big man to the front-court rotation may be disappointed. Rick Sund told the AJC on Thursday thatthe Hawks were "looking and watching" but no moves appear to be imminent or in the works.
"I always start the season, everywhere I've been, with three point guards and centers, just in case you lose one of them," Sund said Thursday. "We are looking and watching [for other options], but who knows?"
After the injury to Al Horford, Atlanta is left with just two true centers on their roster. Zaza Pachulia has been getting the starting nod of late and instead of using Collins, Larry Drew has opted for a smaller lineup with 6-foot-8 Ivan Johnson manning the center position as a back up.
Atlanta cleared a roster spot on Thursday by requesting waivers on point guard Donald Sloan who was expendable with Kirk Hinrich healthy and Jannero Pargo still on the roster. By waiving Sloan Atlanta slides just below the luxury tax threshold which means that instead of paying the tax, the Hawks will be one of the teams that receives money from tax paying teams. Sund talked more about the decision to waive Sloan with MC:
"We really like what Pargo has given us. He's played a lot and [Jerry] Stackhosue gives us experience. Sloan, we liked him. I think he's a guy who will be in the league."
If the Hawks want to add to their frontcourt, then they will likely have to make another roster move if they want to stay under the tax threshold. The Hawks don't appear to be interested in any of the free agent centers that are available although they have been rumored as a possible suitor for Kenyon Martin once he returns from China. Martin might add some muscle up front for the Hawks but there are no guarantees that they would be able to lure him or a player like him to Atlanta.
"I think we have a really good club, and I think our players accept responsibility that the goal is still to make the playoffs," Sund said. "You don't replace a player like Al, but we also have a lot of [other] good players on the team."
For more on the Atlanta Hawks check out SB Nation Atlanta, follow Jason Walker and Kris Willis, along with Peachtree Hoops on Twitter and check out the Peachtree Hoops Facebook Fan Page.
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Kenyon Martin is not a center and never has been listed as one. What is Kenyon Martin talk? Is he just looking for guys to make Horford look like more of a center in comparison.
This is a travesty, and if Marvin plays with the starters over Radmanovic one more game…
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 12:07 PM EST reply actions
No he is not a center
but he is likely a much better player than any of the other centers that are available as free agents
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by Kris Willis on Jan 27, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
True that.
And he is taller, longer, and more experienced than Ivan.
by jdewayneatl on Jan 27, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather Rasheed than Martin if we're going the old guy route
Kenyon is a “poor man’s” Smoove.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
After the last time I saw 'Sheed
I can’t vouch for him. He was so out of shape in Boston it was ridiculous. Can’t make myself believe it is any different now
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Fair point...
but still, Stack is getting 5 minutes a game. Do we really need him, with Marvin, Smoove, Joe, Taco, etc able to fill in there? Wouldn’t a decent C make a lot more sense, if we can find one on the cheap either as a FA or for a 2nd round pick if we have to trade for someone that won’t put us over the tax, cause we both know they aren’t risking the tax.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I think you describe their only option
It comes down to whether or not they find a big they want to add. They could possibly waive Stack or Pargo before their contract becomes guaranteed. May bring them back on 10 day contracts. They still have some options if they choose to go that route
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Well looking at this free agent list on Hoopshype of PF's,,,
Rasheed Wallace
Ike Diogu, injury problems
Mikki Moore
Keith Benson, should have kept him..srsly whats Stackhouse doing
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 12:23 PM EST reply actions
Benson
We have no idea if we should have kept him but there wasn’t a single good report that came out about him after the Hawks drafted him. He was cut after signing in Europe and didn’t wow anyone during training camp.
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by Kris Willis on Jan 27, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
and by the way
Jon Leuer is not better than Marvin Williams by any stretch of the imagination
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by Kris Willis on Jan 27, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
You would have been better off without the by any stretch of the imagination
- better contract
- better at boxing out
- more post up game
- better shooting form in mid-range
If you cant watch them then Just go look at all of their numbers.
If watching Marvin brick layups and miss dunks wasn’t too obvious the numbers confirm he is too inefficient in his role and everything comes easier for Leuer
Not really a stretch of the imagination. Marvin’s spoonfed everything and still cant shoot or post up. Its just reality. We missed out on that pick.
http://bkref.com/tiny/pboYw
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Leuer has played like 13 minutes in Milwaukee's last three games
You telling me that if Marvin was on that team that he wouldn’t have gotten more run than that?
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and Milwaukee shouldn't be confused as resembling a playoff team
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He does have a better PER though
according to ESPN (but then Stack is better than both by far on PER there). And he did better than I’d have thought when he got consistent run in the middle of the month.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
"You telling me that if Marvin was on that team that he wouldn’t have gotten more run than that?"
We all know I’m saying the opposite. If Jon was on this team Marvin would be on the bench,no question.
Come on now.
Lets be honest. Smith is literally a small forward. He might not be on this team much longer but he and Joe play well together they created pretty nasty inside mismatches at those wing positions in the past.
So me, I’m weighing the flaws of Joe and Josh when making the decision between Jon and Marvin. Marvin could be a very talented volume scorer given touches and leway, but I’m Not weighing what Marvin could do on Milwaukee.
We’re weighing what Marvin and Jon can add to the core here, in Atlanta.
6’8 Joe – 3 pt. shooter, good size rebounding and posting up, shot creator
6’8 Josh – non shooter, post up SFs, transition
7’0 Jon – (3 pt.) shooter, good size rebounding and posting up, pressure release, rebound and trail.
Marvin is not better in any way shape or form or form. Just think about it. Adding a 7’0 at the PF changes all the matchups.
Iguodala wants to switch from Josh Smith onto Joe Johnson? Well Jodie Meeks and Jrue Holiday have to choose between guarding Jon Leuer (lob inside) or Joe Johnson (post up/high low backdoors).
Its no contest with what Marvin vs Leuer brings to the team. Leuer could literally affect the game without scoring just by forcing mismatches.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
You left out the part about Leuer
Being a stiff that can’t guard or rebound with other PFs which is why he was replaced in the Bucks lineup. I’d rather have Vlad
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Stiff
“stiff that can’t guard or rebound with other PFs which is why he was replaced in the Bucks lineup.”
I left out that part because its not true. His total rebounding % is currently 12%. Lamarcus Aldridge is at 14%.
He was replaced because Ilasova was 17% and 3 point shooting is not needed.
In ATL, which after all is the team of concern, if Josh Smith is moved to small forward he is the #1 rebounder in the league at that position.
We saw it last season against Chicago. If we just benched Marvin for Jason Collins we actually can achieve great rebounding numbers consistently.
Collins is and was a garbage rebounder but he could box out and force mismatches that worked to our advantage.
Now here youre suggesting Leuer would be a bad fit because of being stiff ?
Joe Johnson – 6%
Jeff Teague – 4%
Smith – 14% (15.7% now)
Leuer – 12% (11.8% now)
Pachulia – 15% (16.4% now)
-—
Total: 51% (53.9% if maintained)
“We’re small,” coach Tom Thibodeau said. “So we have to gang rebound. If we can’t do that, we won’t be successful. We can’t leak out. We have guys taking off early trying to get on the break. They need to get in the fight first.”
“There’s still work to be done,” Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau said. “But we’re moving in the right direction. Carlos (Boozer) and Jo (Noah) have always been excellent rebounders. Luol (Deng) and our smalls are getting in there. We’re making a conscious effort of rebounding with five guys.”
Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/218303/Thibodeau_Bulls_Rebounding_With_Five_Guys#ixzz1kgw2LEo6
IF it comes down to fundamental winning basketball, playing inside the paint, posting up and rebounding and forcing those mismatches where we can beat people up, then adding Leuer at PF is better and more reliable than having Marvin in there.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
If you play Smoove at Small forward then you take him away from the basket
If he is taken away from the basket then his rebounding and blocked shots numbers decline. Even if Leuer could cause a mismatch on offense he would give the other team an advantage on the defensive end because he can’t guard on the perimeter and he can’t guard other power forwards in the post.
I am done discussing a hypothetical situation that doesn’t have a snow balls chance of ever happening.
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The only power forward Leuer was not guarding in the post was Elton Brand. He guarded Spencer Hawes in that game. Bosh doesn’t even play in the post unless he plays smaller forwards like Josh Smith. That’s ridiculous, its not like the league is loaded with Elton Brands or power forwards that stay on the perimeter are so quick that Leuer cant guard them.
But I’m done talking on Leuer unless he becomes a free agent or does something noteworthy. But those are just false arguments.
-
OK now the discussion has shifted from a Hypothetical Trade. To "If you play “Smith” at small forward"
- Proof His blocks actually go down? He has demonstrated blocks people from behind and from wing rotations. And he alters shots. Might hurt fantasy but more important in reality.
Instead of him standing underneath the rim where he’s undersized against elite teams. Smith is coming from behind on help side or a switch can occur.
Remember Asik drove from the 3 point line and Smith was under the basket to block the shot. Or in the playoffs when Deng drove Smith blocks his shots.
Or alters them. Smith does that defending the Small Forward even though I dont think I ever mentioned blocks.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Kris, why?
are you having this debate? Seriously… :)
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 27, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
I just got through asking myself the same question
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Skiles on Leuer
“We’ve got to get Luc out there on Bosh or Ers,” Skiles said. "Luc has done a nice job on Bosh in the past. Jon is learning. One night it’s Amare Stoudemire, the next night it’s Bosh.
“He’s learning. While he’s learning, he’s having some struggles, particularly on the defensive end. But that’s to be expected. He had no rookie league. He didn’t have any exhibition games; we didn’t have a month to prepare. We’re looking at tape with him and trying to get him better there.”
I was uploading the Miami game with Leuer’s 5 minutes vs Bosh.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Marvin Williams would be the Bucks best offensive weapon
If he played for them, this isnt even debatable. If Marvin Played on a bad offensive team like the Bucks he’d be an 18 PPG scorer for them. He’d still be the same Solid, and efficient basketball player that he has been with Atlanta for the majority of the time hes been healthy
Marvin is a volume shooter and scorer. He needs a lot of touches to learn how to create. He is NOT a knockdown shooter, which is being debated and thats what we need going forward with a shooting liability like Smith.
Thats who Sund should explore getting. If not Rasheed Wallace then Troy Murphy anyone?
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
"Goal is to make the playoffs"
That says it all. Very frustrating nonsense from our GM today.
We need a center desperately and he acts like Collins is effective and Zaza is starter material. But then again, he says our goal is to make the playoffs – nuff said
Yeah I picked up on that too, would have liked to have heard the context of the question with that answer
I think they would make a trade but the reality is that they aren’t going to pay the tax and they are right up against it. It is going to be hard to find something that works that brings back no salary beyond this season that helps this club. Remember the salary situation doesn’t improve next season either. They will have to move a core piece if they are to find any wiggle room.
They are looking for another player to sign to a vet minimum contract. If not then they will go with what they have which so far hasn’t been that bad. But we all know that it isn’t championship caliber and clearly isn’t as good as it would have been with a healthy Al Horford
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by Kris Willis on Jan 27, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
We've made the playoffs the past 4 years.
I think our real goal is to make it past the Second Round. It would be refreshing to hear the GM verbalize that.
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Jan 27, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
i think he is
assuming that Al will be back for the playoffs
And just how much can we expect from someone that
was out of shape in the first place, and will have spent the past several months recovering for a significant injury. I’d say not much. And certainly not his best.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
While I cannot put my finger on it...
I recall reading he was not in the best of shape at the start of camp, too.
Given the short training camp and the plethora of games in a small period of time, it is not shocking Horford and many other players are injuring themselves.
I say the above with one huge caveat: Horford may have been in fine form, and the injury could be 100% unrelated to his physical conditioning, even if he was not in tip-top shape.
GATA!
No the comment was made by MC on the first day of camp
and then was never brought up again.
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THIS!!!!
Listen, I’ve completely been on record as agreeing with Kris in that this is not a championship caliber team, but I’m sorry – the goal cannot be to make the playoffs. This team has been there done that, so I don’t care what the context is – in a year where we are in the hunt and injuries are happening (Deng, Wade) – you just might be able to win something that I didn’t think was possible. If I’m the GM (not Joe Str8Talk), I’ve got to be saying – our goal is to win the title. Now, why would the GM not say that…because he doesn’t want to heighten expectations and then miss and end up with no job. But that’s what I expect from the Hawks – not to have high expectations, not to do things that would win a title and then, say – well, see – that’s why we didn’t win a title.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 27, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
yeah its all politics and wording. To Kris, The context of Sunds comments seems no question was asked but he is preemptively lowered expectations.
At least one interview has Smith still talking about championships and Sund comes in.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
You know I wish just once you would get periods and commas where they should be
that way I could tell whether or not I need to agree or argue with you
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Damn.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Josh Smith * Rasheed Wallace * Al Horford *
* Kirk Hinrich * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Ivan/Vlad * Zaza Pachulia *
----
* {#40 Pick Perimeter F Jon Leuer is better than Marvin Williams and Hinrich cost us the pick}
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 27, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
I concur...
The Hawks are in the mix with Miami, San Antonio, NY, and the Clips to get Kenyon Martin.
Per ESPN, the Clippers and the Knicks can offer the most bucks. But Kenyon wants a sizeable role on a contender. The Knicks aren’t contending right now and the Clips would only have a bench role.
Both San Antonio and Miami would want Kenyon in a reserve role also but with more competition for minutes. The Hawks however, can offer Martin a larger share of minutes and a starting role if need be on a contender.
I think the Hawks have a good chance of getting him. Players are coming to Atlanta now, so its a really good chance.
On a completely unrelated note
I thought this was a caption contest when I first saw the picture
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
Is there a scarier basketball player...
On the planet than Ivan Johnson? Seriously, who would want to guard him?
GATA!
Maybe this is a good thing
With Sund’s record with trades before the deadline, maybe it’s a good thing (if indeed that’s what he’ll do). I can’t imagine another kirk hinrich trade senario where we give up half the roster for a aging rotational player.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
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