Hawks vs. Bucks Final Score: Atlanta Hawks 97, Milwaukee Bucks 92
by Jason Walker on Jan 24, 2012 12:48 AM EST
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Quick Thought: First half, a bad Joe Johnson. Second half, a good Joe Johnson. So very, very good.
Game Balls:
After a four point fourth quarter, Joe Johnson woke up in a big way. 24 second half points, including 14 in the fourth quarter. Joe also made every last free throw and wisely passed the ball out to Teague instead of forcing things on the Josh Smith three. 2-9 in the first half with no free throws versus 8-13 in the second with 8-8 FT. Glad the second half was better than the first. For sure.
Admit it, you held your breath as Josh Smith launched that go-ahead three pointer. Or maybe exhaled with NOOOOOOO coming out of your mouth instead. Whichever, Josh hit that AND two big free throws down the stretch and has joined Joe in stepping up production in Al Horford's absence. 11 rebounds per game since Al went down is contributing mightily to his career highs in all rebounding rates. It's good to see. 19 points, 13 rebounds and 4 assists, including a sweet backdoor cut pass to Tracy McGrady late in the game. Just another average box score stuffer.
I don't know what it took to get Zaza Pachulia 38 minutes, but it worked. Hard fouls, excellent rebounding (14 tonight), and a key three point play are reasons why it's essential he gets the majority of the vacant Horford minutes.
Afterthoughts:
Jeff Teague had it going early, scoring at will during that 11 point first quarter and looking like nobody on Milwaukee could check him. Then, as coaches do, Larry Drew took him out in the midst of this hotness and we didn't see it again. The Hawks could have used that in the fourth quarter, but Teague vacillated between deferring to Joe and McGrady and making mistakes when he did get aggressive. Another chapter in the book of learning for Teague, but some of that is on Drew for pulling the hot player and unintentionally icing him.
McGrady played the whole fourth quarter and didn't provide a lot, save for the backdoor layup from Smith. I'd like to see Larry Drew reading the game for Tracy and only playing him that much when he has the obvious matchup win and is proving that on the court. Else, since it is obviously a McGrady or Marvin situation, I'd like to see Marvin's aggressiveness on the glass and defense in there.
Imagine if Larry Drew had benched the starters like Scott Skiles did at home in Milwaukee against the Hawks., especially front line talent like Andrew Bogut. I imagine we'd have 200 comments alone that could be deduplicated down to three work involving something about Drew and something you'd do with a straw. Skiles kept all but Brandon Jennings on the bench after they came out in the third quarter and while they played hard and were in position to win, they didn't, leaving such strategy up for question. I am eager to read Brew Hoop to see the reaction to this.
Speaking to that -- I, for one, was happy to not see Luc Richard Mbah a Moute out on Joe Johnson in the fourth quarter. Not that Stephen Jackson played bad defense -- on some of those plays you couldn't do much better -- but Johnson has had problems in the past getting loose against him, especially late.
The Hawks defense righted itself just in time, holding the Bucks to a number of outside shots in the fourth quarter. Even though Milwaukee hit some of those, and Josh Smith flat out lost Mike Dunleavy on a game tying attempt near the end, I would rather take my chances on teams beating the Hawks from the outside late rather than attack the inside. 10 of the Bucks' last 14 shots were classified as jumpers by Synergy.
Final Thought:
6-1 without Al Horford. Joe Johnson averaging nearly 23 points per game and over a point per possession since Al's injury. Josh Smith corralling rebounds galore. What is this? 6-1 since Al got hurt and I am beginning to wonder now if the inevitable fade and the struggle to go .500 in Al's absence will even materialize.
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good start for the road trip
good job joe for sticking with it….even though there were some bad shots that went in
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Mostly though he went inside in the second half
which isn’t something we saw a lot of last season.
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by Kris Willis on Jan 23, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
i thought it was just me, but I havent seen joe try to get into the paint this much compared to the last couple seasons
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
just watched it on delay
and it was FANTASTIC…you have nights like this where Josh is no good on offense, where Drew Gooden hits 3s, where Dunleavy isn’t playing like Dunleavy, and where you could say that Joe emphatically earned his paycheck. That’s what I want out of my $20M shooting guard.
Hawk Str8Talk
Dunleavy is a good player. Just injury prone. Very big wing and savvy IQ. comparable to Battier (offensively).
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 23, 2012 11:30 PM EST reply actions
Lurch for MVP! Gordon Hayward is the second coming! BELIEVE IT
Question: Woody, what happened to the ball movement? Answer: I think our defense was pretty solid tonight. We held them to under 200 points so we did our job on that end.
Nothing was stopping Joe in that 4th quarter.
That was a beautiful thing to watch unfold.
How about the way Zaza is playing? Wow. Pretty nice.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
I see what you are doing there
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by Kris Willis on Jan 23, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Leuer had the best DNP-CD I have ever seen from a second round draft pick
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by Kris Willis on Jan 23, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Put up the same #s as Horford.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Leuer did that is.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but Horford has a pretty good excuse currently
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He's 2nd round pick and has started already. We can go back and find the quotes. Just admit he's better than you gave him credit for.
Maybe not good enough to play against Josh Smith but Skiles played guys with history, the game was close, and still Mbah a Moute was “mediocre” according to google/rotoworld.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
DNP-CD
By the way the Bucks are 6-10.
Being good enough to play on a 6-10 team is a lot different than playing for a good one.
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by Kris Willis on Jan 24, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
What do you want me to admit?
That I wouldn’t trade a one-armed Al Horford for a 2nd round pick that is now out of the rotation on a historically bad team?
Ok I admit it
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by Kris Willis on Jan 24, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
More questions than answers.
1- Out of the rotation vs the Hawks. He’s not even playing the same position he would play on the Hawks.
Next to Josh Smith he’s playing outside and getting wide open 3s.
Had he played yesterday he would have had to guard Josh Smith and post him up. He’s a bit timid/robotic driving and posting up. But from what I’ve seen personally think he could have done it.
Hawks might have gone to Smith vs Leuer isos often and Smith would have settled for jumpers against his height. Skiles wanted to match Josh’s speed with Ilyasova and Mbah a Moute. But I’m not Coach Skiles.
2- Why leave out Bogut for 1-armed Horford? You still don’t think MIL would trade him and Leuer for Horford? Let’s keep it honest.
3- How is Milwaukee historically bad? They’re still in the playoff hunt and Skiles is on the hot seat. They’re more competitive with Jennings running and shooting than they were with Iso-Magette. I’m not seeing how they’re historically bad.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Ok, Ok I am just having some fun with you
Milwaukee is historically bad and have been to the playoffs four times since the 2001 season. Have never made it past the first round and during that time never won more than 46 games. They made the playoffs with 42 wins, 41 wins, and 40 wins. That is historically bad.
The thing is, I like Skiles and I thought he completely out coached Woodson in the 2010 series. They screwed themselves losing Game 6 back home.
I just thought it was laughable last season when everyone was convinced that Milwaukee would finish ahead of the Hawks when their two key acquisitions were Drew Gooden and Corey Maggette. Tell me the last time either were a factor on a good team?
If you want to continue your fascination with Leuer then so be it but I don’t agree.
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by Kris Willis on Jan 24, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, I thought by historically you meant record breaking bad. I didnt know were pick ahead of us. But thats when we had Jamal and were laughably 1 dimensional..
As for Leuer I know he is better than Marvin’s offense and can shoot over people as a 7 footer. And he can help on the rebounds and doesn’t get called for wrapping Brand’s arm ala Rodman. He gets the extra possession.
Smith can defend the 3 and run the transition better than Marvin.
Thats not to hard to fathom.
Bogut’s defense and rebounding anchors the defense and he can drive or shoot from the top of the key and he helps rebound the ball. We dont need to give him any more iso touches than Zaza gets. Heck I might even bring Bogut off the bench as a 6th man.
We get more defense more size on the boards more shooting and more transition athletically (Smith) and trailing for 3s (Joe and Leuer).
We haven’t even scratched the surface of how good we can be. But Marvin is too small and his offense doesn’t make up for it. Enter Leuer. And Emotions and leadership are great but for $60 million what are we getting with Horford?
I know it feels good to see a class act like Horford succeed, but eventually we see he’s too small to do simple basketball things like tap out or drive and shoot a hook shot.
He has to play 30 minutes per game just to get respectable averages.
Bogut (26 min) and Zaza (16 min) and Ivan (6 min) is just a physically intimidating and tough center lineup. We play that then make it to the playoffs healthy.
I know all that Horford’s meant to us as far as bringing winning history with the core. But isn’t it time to make a move. Come playoffs this year and beyond what do we expect going forward?
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
See here is my problem
You don’t know that Leuer is better offensively than Marvin because he has hardly been on the court in the NBA. For all of Marvin’s shortcomings he has still been a double figures scorer on a playoff team. That may not satisfy us completely but its better than a lot of players can claim.
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I mean don't take my word for it. I know why he was drafted in the 2nd round but I also know why LAndry Fields, Dejuan Blair, Chase Budinger and Boozer were.
Jon Leuer – not a power player, not seen as overly athletic, question defensive position
Dejaun Blair – no ACLs, 6’7, weight concerns
Boozer – 6’9 center
Budinger – not a power player, not seen as overly athletic, question defensive position
Landry Fields – not seen as overly athletic, question defensive position
Ranked 40 amongst prospects if we go by draft and yet Leuer has outperformed his draft position.
-———
5. Jon Leuer
Thanks to his strong and consistent play, Jon Leuer, the 40th pick in last year’s NBA draft, has been the fifth-best rookie this season. Leuer’s success is largely a result of his spot-up shooting, something that Leuer does on a quarter of his offensive possessions. As of Sunday, Leuer’s 1.286 PPP in spot-up situations placed him in the top 10 percent of all NBA players. Leuer has been feasting on opportunities as the third player in pick-and-roll situations. Leuer isn’t the big man setting screens; he’s the forward spotting up outside of the pick-and-roll, ready to catch and shoot when his man shades over to help. In these situations, Leuer is shooting 71.4 percent, and he’s really making the defense pay for leaving him.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
DNP-CD
go a step further, he started against Miami and played a total of 4:32 in the game. Started and played 4:32? Dare I say that is Collinsesque. Mbah a Moute is healthy now and Leuer is going to be lucky to be on this roster by the end of the season
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by Kris Willis on Jan 24, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
You're right on the minutes.
But as much as I love Skiles as a coach. He can’t coach without star scorers and is more likely to be scapegoated than a top rookie on a small contract.
As they rebuild Mbah a Moute I think would likely be traded as they go with youth and smaller contracts. Anything can happen in a contracted season but I really don’t see Milwaukee being so confident in their team that they let draft steals go and go with what they got now.
Mbah a Moute played 24 minutes at New York and 28 minutes at Miami, but Skiles said there’s no type of limitation on him with regard to his tendinitis possibly flaring back up.
“I’m not real concerned with that; maybe that’s something I should think about a little bit more. I don’t want him to have a setback,” Skiles said. "We’ll start him tonight. We’d like to get him out there, get him on (Smith) early in the game and see how he goes.
“As long as he’s not complaining of anything to the trainers, we’ll keep on playing him.”
Skiles said that moving Leuer back to the bench wasn’t necessarily a sign that Leuer, the rookie from Wisconsin, had fallen out of favor.
“I don’t know about that,” Skiles said of Leuer, who played a total of just 12 minutes against the Knicks and Heat with Mbah a Moute finally healthy enough to go.
“I don’t know if people fully understand what some of these rookies have to go through. He’s got Amare (Stoudemire) in (Madison Square) Garden and he’s got Bosh down (in Miami) — these are difficult things, and he’s learning.
“I wouldn’t say he’s the odd man out. Ersan (Ilyasova) has stepped up and is playing better now. So there’s a battle for minutes.”
Milwaukee will be going for a season-high three-game winning streak tonight against Atlanta (12-5).
Not surprisingly, Skiles believes his team’s effort — particularly on the defensive end — has been at the forefront of the recent surge.
“We’ve played a lot harder both games (at New York and Miami),” Skiles said. "Our defense has been very, very good in both games. We’ve gotten into people, pressured people, our help’s been there early and we’ve played our possessions all the way to the end.
“It’ll be tested again tonight. Guys like Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, they’re in the league with the Carmelos and LeBrons — great 1-on-1 players.”
I had deleted the game but I found some of Leuer from my Bogut vs Philly video. Good size. Good form. I’ll post
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
And they still have Jon Brockman on the team!
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_xN1y1NOHw
http://nbaplaybook.com/nba-rookie-rankings-iii/
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously, what was going on with Skiles tonight?
I mentioned it above — this site and Hawks Nation would be up in arms if LD pulled what Skiles did tonight, benching the starters for the fourth quarter in a tight game. Heck, there’s a revolt if Willie Green sniffs the later stages of a game.
Can you even imagine the meltdown?
by Jason Walker on Jan 24, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't
I remember when he sat Josh last year and we won a game, but even if we lost – I would have been happy with using a game to prove a point about what’s more important. Our long term health vs. the short term..The Bucks aren’t going anywhere if they can’t figure out how to beat the Hawks on a night when they don’t have it (save Joe Johnson’s 2nd half). The starters didn’t have it – the bench brought the Bucks back twice last night, so he went with them.
Funny thing is that Willie Green has started to win me over – I’m not sure he needs to see the end of games, but I’m not as scared of him as on game 4.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 24, 2012 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
He's good
I touched the garment of Ivan Johnson and I saw the Rapture
by a hooter's baby on Jan 23, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Height and wingspan. At any rate Marvin was terrible and has lost his teammates trust.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
IDK looked pretty good to me
Especially coming in cold and getting that key deflection for the steals, but hey what do i know?
He sat the whole 4th and came in when there were no offensive plays left. Everyone yelling at him. Im just going off what I saw.
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
when you say everybody you mean Josh Smith
Who yells at everybody, because hes a bit of a yeller when things dont go his way if you havent notice
I'm glad you were in the locker room afterwards to find out that Marvin had lost his teammates trust
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People must admit that Joe is showing up where Superstars show up...
In the 4th quarter. Josh put up All-Star stats. Teague got the team going. Zaza outdid Andrew Bogut. It was a tough, grinding game but the Hawks did what elite teams do, pull out the victory at all costs.
Great job Hawks. The Hawks need the next game to have a quality win against a top tier team to add to the resume. If the Hawks get the win in San Antonio, they will have a good chance to come back to Atlanta riding a 7 game win streak.
Let's not go too far
Joe absolutely, positively showed up last night, but I can’t say that I’m sure that he’s there yet. He’s going to have to do that about 5-10 more times this year to convince me of that, but I do think the Al Horford injury has changed his mindset and that’s what we should all be happy about. The problem is whether Al comes back and that changes.
As for Josh, he put up All Star stats, but he didn’t play like an All Star tonight. Tonight is further proof of why Jason Collins never needs to see the court except in emergency situations.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 24, 2012 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
Hate I missed the game.
I listened to some of the 2nd quarter on the radio. Holman seems burned or burnt out. Whichever. Anyway, glad they won. It was not a good start for Joe and I was afraid, but he picked it up. Kudos to him.
@cocoqt81
On Holman
I caught some of the radio feed and he did seem more pessimistic and critical than usual… maybe he had a bad personal day??? we’d go down by anoint and he’d make it like the wheels had come completely off
by R.J. Smith on Jan 24, 2012 5:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Didn't Skiles do the same thing in the playoffs
I can’t remember which game it was, but I recall him leaving a hot Brandon Jennings on the bench in the 4th quarter
I touched the garment of Ivan Johnson and I saw the Rapture
by a hooter's baby on Jan 24, 2012 1:25 AM EST reply actions
nothing much to really complain about (but i'll try anyway)
I thought LD might have rode the starters a little to much in the second half. Other than the usual why in Gods name cant Tracy and Marvin play at the same time (ended up doing it in during the last seconds of the game, with Josh Smith at the 5, something again LD should look at trying to do depending on the matchup.) Felt LD managed the game pretty well, perhaps Vlad should have played some more to atleast give Josh a blow. And hopefully Heinrich can come back soon in order to bring Teague’s and Joe’s minutes down.
The Bucks are pretty damn good defensively, i hope people arent too upset about how the game went down suggesting it shouldnt have been close. This game went about as well as one can expect a Bucks game to go.
I got a fever for more WINGSPAN!!!!
If the Hawks win it all.........I will shave MY eyebrows.
Leuer, Chris Kaman Kevin Love and David Lee have more HEIGHT but less wingspan than Marvin or Horford. IDK think we could use height?
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I am just loving all of these wingspan measurements
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by Kris Willis on Jan 24, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Need a day to recover
That was a tough game.
We were getting killiedon the defensive boards when Zaza and Smoove went to bench. Now we see Rad really can’t play D. Desperately need a supporting center. Zaza is coming into shape as the starter.
JJ earned his pay after really upsetting me in the first half.
Ok the Smoove 3 scared me. He made it, but I really think Teague needs to take that shot too. He was wide open on the pass from Joe.
Can we already come home?
Zaza
His defense on Bogut was outstanding. While Skiles exiled him from the game in the fourth quarter, Z exiled him from the paint the rest of the time. Normally Bogut relies on his bulk to power his way into the lane, but Zaza was strong enough to stand his ground and still be able to react to some of the post moves.
Nice win...
I am sticking by my initial stance: the Hawks are a playoff team with and without Horford. I’m not delusional, for I realize we are a better team with Horford; but sometimes it’s easier with only two studs, instead of three. Smith and Johnson know they can’t take a night off.
I still worry about depth and want to see us perform against more top teams, but I like what I’ve seen so far. Last night was fun.
GATA!
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