On Cool Joe's Place In History

by JohnWebb on Jan 22, 2012 11:46 AM EST

Joe Johnson is, without a doubt, my favorite player in the association. No shooting guard can match his length, and very few small forwards (read: KD, Lebron, and Iggy) can keep pace with him. His mid-range game is impeccable, and when his shot is falling, it's like watching poetry in motion. Always calm, always collected. He's a silent killer that feints and jabs and pokes--then goes for the money shot. Basketball is a beautiful thing because of players like him. More after the jump.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying Joe is the best to ever do it, or that he ranks above Kobe or D-Wade, or that he deserves that ludicrous contract. I'm saying, in a league full of parity, that Cool Joe is unique. He's successfully blended size, quickness, ridiculous range, soft touch, and solid fundamentals into a complete game. Joe's game--a game no other player can boast. Sure, they may excel in one, or two, or three areas, but I honestly believe that Joe is the only one in the league with a true, complete package.

Alright, maybe Lebron (but Joe worked for it, so it's better).

And since we're going to be stuck with him for a while, because of that aforementioned ludicrous contract, I think we should decide what place in Hawks legend Joe deserves. Is he just a shade below The Human Highlight Film, 'Nique? Is he an echelon below Pistol Pete? Under Rasheed Wallace? (I kid, I kid)

When talking about Joe, I think it's fair to mention him in the same breath as 'Nique. They're both winners. They're both scorers. Joe averages 5 less field goal attempts than THHF, and only 7 points less. He averages twice as many assists as Dominique, but loses the rebounding advantage by about 2 per. Free throws are a wash, the difference being tenths of percentage points. And I think it's fair to say--either due to the game evolving or to Joe's credit--that JJ's defense is better. WAY BETTER. Do you see what I'm getting at?

And when talking about Pete Maravich, the numbers are practically identical, except that Pistol took a whopping 6 more shots per game than Joe, and averages only 7 points better. Cool Joe is not a volume shooter, but he gets his. And he's a better rebounder--but that's not really fair, since Pistol was a point guard. Maravich has a slight edge in assists--and by slight, I mean less than 1. And again, Joe's a better defender simply due to his unique size and speed.

I mean, what else do you want? Those two are Cool Joe's closest contemporaries. Do you want comparisons to Doc Rivers? Spud Webb? Bob Pettit?

Not only does he deserve comparisons to 'Nique and Pistol, the man deserves to have his jersey retired. Period.

Poll

Where does Joe fall?

With 'Nique and Pistol

23 votes

Below them

26 votes

Somewhere else (please explain)

0 votes

49 votes | Poll has closed

A FanPost expresses the opinion of the community member who wrote it and not that of the blog management.

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Comments

You are really on some Bad Drugs

To compare Joe Johnson to Nique or any of the greats is crazy. Forget the PPG/shots per game nonsense..not a good judge of how great a player is..

Joe is not an “impact” player. He cant carry a team like some of the greats. (See 1988 Game 7 playoffs Boston/Atlanta) Joe never played with that type of impact in his life.
Your numbers are way off. Joe only averaged 25 points one season(2006) “iso Joe” Hawks had terrible record that year. Nique averaged over 25 points for 10 consecutive seasons on competitive Hawks team.
Never seen a 2 guard so afraid of contact in my life. His jump shot is very inconsistent. He never penetrates or gets to the foul line. He relies way too much on the mid-range shot.
Who gives a toot about assists. You don’t want your “shooting” guard and supposed #1 scoring option with a higher assist average.
He is not a leader. It is telling when one of a teams younger players(Horford) is considered to be the leader
Joe is recognized as an “average” defender at “best”. He never made an All Defensive team

Bottom line..stop rewriting history.. Joe Johnson is a slightly above average 2 guard, who based on dollars/production, is one of the most overpaid athletes in sports history.

by Ray Johnston on Jan 23, 2012 11:35 AM EST reply actions

Thought this was just spam

* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
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* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }

by PointGuardSlim on Jan 23, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions

WOW

Joe is more in the Steve Smith category…….no where near Nique

by Ennis W on Jan 23, 2012 9:56 PM EST reply actions

What is it with you guys

Just because someone is a “great” doesn’t mean they’re beyond comparison.

1. Joe IS an impact player (see Hawks/Celtics series circa 2008). How many times have you seen him dominate a fourth quarter? I can’t even number the amount of games I’ve seen him go on 6-8 point sprees to close out opponents.

2. I never said Joe averaged 25 points, I just said he averaged 5-6 less SHOTS per game, with only 7 points less. You honestly don’t think Joe can’t post 25 a night taking 25 freaking shots? Please.

3. It’s hyperbole to say he “never” penetrates or gets to the foul line. Nique and Pistol averaged only 3 more free throws than Joe, and their styles facilitated that. Joe’s bread and butter is his floater about a foot from the basket. Again, like I said, the free throws are a wash.

4. Who gives a toot about assists? I don’t know, anyone who has ever played a team sport, ever? You don’t think his ability to work with teammates makes him more valuable?

5. Oh really? Because, as I recall last season when Joe was injured, the Hawks really struggled. Now their supposed “leader” (whom I’ve always said was overvalued) is out and guess who’s leading the way: their actual leader. Al is a great guy, but for god’s sake, just because Cool Joe isn’t running his mouth constantly doesn’t mean he’s not leading the team.

6. And Joe might be an average defender, but he’s better than Nique and Pistol. They allowed absurd points per possession.

Question: Woody, what happened to the ball movement? Answer: I think our defense was pretty solid tonight. We held them to under 200 points so we did our job on that end.

by JohnWebb on Jan 24, 2012 9:36 AM EST reply actions

I honestly thought this was spam but I'm going to give you and Joe some credit. Joe is too slow to be passing the ball and handling the ball so much.

His value comes from taking and hitting shots. And he’s actually showing up on defense and being ranked as a top defender.

It’s early but he’s showing up as in Nique’s realm as far as WS/48 so far. I just hope he keeps it up.

* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }

by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 11:56 AM EST reply actions

I wouldn't say Joe is slow

He’s methodical

I touched the garment of Ivan Johnson and I saw the Rapture

by a hooter's baby on Jan 24, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions

Slow is definitely not the right word. A smaller more explosive player like say Mitch Ritchmond can get into gaps and draw more fouls. But Joe's methodical and has some moments.

He’s on track to Retire his jersey. But I’d like to win a ring first before comparing him to HoF players.

* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
----
* Hawks traded {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut} {& Bench Marvin Williams }

by PointGuardSlim on Jan 24, 2012 5:29 PM EST reply actions