Atlanta Hawks 92, Portland Trail Blazers 89: So Is This Team Good Or What?
by Kris Willis on Jan 19, 2012 10:02 AM EST
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Its the inevitable question that many Hawks fans want to ask but are afraid to because they are scared that as soon as they get used to the idea things will fall apart once again. The only advice I can offer is don't ask the question just keep enjoying the victories and each and every test that this team passes along the way. For whatever reason, this team looks happy to be on the court together and when teams are making runs at them they no longer blink. We certainly haven't always been able to say that.
Larry Drew acknowledged after the game that the pieces are fitting together nicely for this team. The challenge as Jason pointed out after the game is sustaining that because at some point things are going to get difficult.
"It really feels like these guys are starting to get a feel for one another," Larry Drew said. "In the first half felt like we had a good flow with the starters and reserves. A few times in the second half we fell out of rhythm but guys are starting to mesh together. Any combination I put on the floor we seem to have some kind of chemistry. We feel like the players we have brought in complement the players that have been here."
This group of Hawks with a more balanced and experienced bench looks like it may be in good shape to handle those pit falls when they arise.
Victory Bullets:
- The first sign of a matchup problem in the wake of Al Horford's injury was on display Wednesday as the Hawks tried to deal with LaMarcus Aldridge. When matched with Jason Collins or Zaza Pachulia, Aldridge drifted to the perimeter with his solid face up game. When matched with Josh Smith, Aldridge tried to overpower him in the post. Smith did well enough making things tough for Aldridge inside and Zaza contested hard but it completely took Collins out of his element.
- Even without Al Horford, Atlanta out rebounded the Trail Blazers 47-41 and I thought did a great job down the stretch of holding Portland to one shot.
- Jannero Pargo deserves mention for hitting all four of his shots in the second quarter and providing a spark for the Hawks until the starters could find a rhythm.
- Marvin Williams had another solid night finishing with 12 points and eight boards in just under 21 minutes of action. Marvin could probably stand to receive a few more minutes but the Hawks are deep right now and Drew opted to ride McGrady down the stretch.
- Vladimir Radmanovic received a DNP-CD. He also didn't get into the game on Monday against the Raptors until the second half. We may be seeing Larry Drew rethinking him as a power forward and more of a small forward particularly against teams with bigger front lines like Portland. Ivan Johnson provides more muscle at the power forward position and if Marvin Williams and Tracy McGrady are healthy then the minutes might be scarce for Vlad Rad.
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LD is doing a good job
This is a deep team, so someone on any given night besides Smoove, JJ and Teague will be unhappy with their playing time. As is, I trust him managing the minutes and match-ups.
I must also say JJ played a very solid game after that horrible first quarter. He was everything one can ask of him. Scoring, rebounding, blocking Jamal’s shot, and then stealing and the lob to Teague to finish it. Teague is the most exciting Hawk now, as he attacks fearlessly where Smoove used to attack, in the sky.
We have defeated Wolves with a lot of difficulty, and now Blazers who are struggling on the road. The other teams are not worth mentioning that we have beaten without Lion. Hawks record is excellent. But when you dig deeper we know the record is built on pre Lion injury and since then, mostly against weaker competition.
Enjoy we will and everything you say is correct. Give credit to Hawks for their fighting spirit and heart. But I say again and again, Hawks must add another piece (starting center) to the team.
Not me
I’m not trusting LD when I have watched a more productive V-Rad and Marvin sit over a less productive WIllie Green and T-Mc. So, it’s not a matter of unhappy with playing time – it’s playing time being jerked around without rhyme or reason. If I’m Zaza, I certainly am not buying the Jason Collins starting or the V-Rad story, particularly if 2 games later V-Rad is not even playing. But not to be a complete wet blanket – the Hawks are still good. I’m convinced of that and I do like the fact that Drew is playing Ivan. Not that Ivan is awesome, but I like that he’s giving the guy a chance to grow into a role. Whether he takes it and runs with it is up to Ivan.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 19, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Listen you can argue either way on your points
I am certainly not a huge LD fan, but I see improvement. I give him credit for it.
I can cherry pick Rad playing horribly vs. both Minnesota 1 of 6 shooting, and vs. Charlotte 3 of 7 shooting. He has his value, and without a doubt LD has him on this team for his shooting. So I trust LD’s judgment on when to use him. And no he has zero value when he drives.
As for Marvin, come on man. You have seen Marvin for seven years, and you are trying to make it like Marvin is the second coming of Charles Round Mound of rebound Barkley. Marvin is who he is, and I think LD recognizes that. Play Marvin to start, and then see how the game goes. Perhaps Marvin playing good to begin the year vs. Nets and Wizards got you all drunk? Have you seen how he finishes recently? Better yet, how about how he does not finish?
Green, T-Mac and Pargo have added value to this team. I am not buying any talk of them being less productive. All you had to see last night if you watched, were some of the moves that T-Mac made. Not in his lifetime, ever, will Marvin do those moves. Against, trust LD on him, because LD is the reason T-Mac is here.
As for Jason Collins vs. Zaza talk, Zaza got the most number of minutes. So what is your point? That Collins started? If that is it, then know this, Zaza is an energy guy. He brings value to the team by his hustle when the other team is tired. He is like a booster rocket. Playing him from the start, when he has to go against the fresh starting five most nights won’t work. I probably would have defaulted to Zaza or Ivan last night. But that is minor point when Zaza got the most minutes any way. Problem is we need a starting center added to this team, and that is what you really want but are trying to latch to Zaza for that. I know you are really upsent because Collins got stuffed by Wallace on that dunk attempt. It is ok, you can admit it, I am mad about that too.
I think LD is doing a good job with the minutes….
i just disagree with you
So, here’s my point – Willie Green has had about 6 terrible games and he’s had how many DNPs. So, you can cherry pick it, but I’m saying that a DNP when you’re already shorthanded and I’m watching Jason Collins playing over someone who has shooting prowess – I’m leery. I’m certainly not ever trusting LD after the Teague debacle, so no – I’m not giving LD the benefit of any doubt. EVER. I certainly don’t trust that he knows how to manage the egos and psyches of our team. I’m not even over the hump with him and Teague until I see Kirk back. Anyone who ever watched Teague would see that when he’s not looking over his shoulder – he plays fine and when he does – he’s pretty average to terrible.
So, we will just have to disagree that Green and Pargo have been pretty bad in half of their games and average in the rest (save Pargo last night) So, yes I watched T-Mc, but you know that you and I disagree on any of that moves stuff. Marvin scored more and rebounded more in less time. Who cares about moves? I definitely don’t think Marvin is the 2nd coming of squat. I don’t think that Marvin deserves to sit behind T-Mc though. So, so far – Marvin has sat during at least 4 games where he was hot. Anyway, we can talk about this for days and not agree. If you want to trust LD, fine. I’m not doing it and it’s not because I hate him – I just don’t trust him at all. I’m not putting anything else into anything about Zaza and Jason. Jason Collins is just a bad basketball player. I understand why he could get 2nd string minutes with Al out, but otherwise – he really just doesn’t need to see the floor. Period. Not when V-Rad is not playing at all, you have Ivan, and you are giving less minutes to Marvin. For those reasons, no – sit Jason Collins unless there is foul trouble that requires us to buy minutes, but voluntarily putting Jason Collins on the floor is crazy talk.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 19, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
The use of the word "EVER" capitalized in the trust issue relative to LD, is being unfair
That shows you don’t believe the dude can grow. I disagree. I believe in human growth for all of us. This is only LD’s second year as a head coach. You must believe he is learning and improving. Heck I even see his suits having improved!!!
So far this year with his minutes, he has been equally sharing. He has not played favorites. It is funny, because T-Mac was kind of invisible for 2-3 games, and folks were wondering where he is. He plays minutes and you giving LD a hard time.
Like I said, you can play this game either way. It is not agreeing or disagreeing, it is cherry picking.
Again LD’s hands with Collins and Zaza situation are tied. He has no choice but to play both. He decides to start Collins and give minutes to Zaza. Those are the only two centers on the roster. Collins must get minutes, or you think Zaza should play all 48 minutes? Or may be you want your Marvin to play center? Or Ivan? Remember Zaza was hardly seeing any action till Lion got hurt.
I will tell you I also am very nervous about the return of Captain Kirk. On that point, I agree. But you know what I want, a starting level center for Captain Kirk.
Well
I can absolutely see you rpoint about cherry picking and I agree that it can look that way, but my point is – the ways that this team needs to grow and learn plus utilizing the talent that’s working has been a problem since the days of Woody. I get your points, but I’m not hinging my hopes on a coach learning. Thibs was a first time coach and looked like he knew what he was doing from jump. That’s what I need. I don’t need Zaza cussing because he’s being taken out for Jason Collins. I don’t need Jason Collins period. I don’t need favorites being played as he has done repeatedly. I don’t need players to get tongue lashings because they are young, but players who also need the same tongue lashings (JOSH and JOE) to get nothing said. So, you can try to be hyperbolic about what LD’s should do, but he’s not tied to playing Jason Collins. Just isn’t a true statement. You can play small ball – you can change things about what you do to fit the best players on the floor.
Anyway, we’re going to agree to disagree. I have seen enough this season to tell me that Drew hasn’t changed much and so, maybe I’ll just be wrong. I’m willing to accept that being an outcome, but right now – I have no trust in Drew. Period.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 19, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Green And Pargo suck
Just because they make ONE jumpshot per game doesnt mean their good
They are just backups
What is your point exactly? They suck as backups? They are minimum level players, and actually do the job ok for minomum level players.
this team has heart
Miles and miles of heart
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
by Throw on Jan 19, 2012 10:36 AM EST via mobile reply actions
enjoy the wins
as fans we get caught up in rankings and trades that we don’t see what’s going on, on the floor. I for one will ride the winning streak and not indulge in trade talks and rankings
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
The next 10 games should be a good indicator
2 games vs. Phi, S.A., and Mem and a 5 game road trip. And the next 10 games is more difficult.
Agreed. 6 out of the next 7 on the road including tomorrow night
As I posted in the game thread last night, all of them are against “lesser” competition and very winnable. We just need to continue to take care of business before getting into the meat of the schedule
At Philly, Cleveland, at Milwaukee, at San Antonio, at Detriot, at New Orleans, at Toronto
That takes us through the end of January and a third of the games overall. Would love to be 16-6 heading into a very difficult month of February
I've always thought
The Blazers are the Hawks of the west.
Brandon Roy was their JJ
LaMarcus Aldrich is a focused Smoove
There are some more very loose analogies, but it’s always seemed the Hawks kind of mirror the Blazers the last couple years.
Noneckmf83
Kmart will be back in the league soon. Why don’t the Hawks try for him?
by Noneckmf83 on Jan 19, 2012 11:52 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Injuries?
Is Kenyon hurt? I know he’s not eligible to return until March, but I hadn’t heard of injuries. Details please if you have them.
by Evil Dallas on Jan 19, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
we will rally behind zaza pachulia
And play good basketball
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
by Throw on Jan 19, 2012 1:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Imagine
Zaza bagging groceries like Kurt Warner.
I touched the garment of Ivan Johnson and I saw the Rapture
by a hooter's baby on Jan 19, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
that would be hilarious
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
by Throw on Jan 19, 2012 4:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You guys know me. I'm always for trade talks. I've always believed in this core as great.
I thought we couldn’t beat Portland though without a quality starting center. But Look at what Pachulia brings. If we had 2 Pachulias let alone (Bogut and Pachulia) we’d kill this league.
Big 7’0 270 pound scrappers
But not even ATL media believed in the core without Hirfird or no one wants to see them win if it means trading Horford for a servicable big man finisher. Or is it a combination of both?
If we had Bogut right now practicing who would say that we would or could not sweep February?:
At Philly, Cleveland, at Milwaukee (lol), at San Antonio (aging, outenergy them), at Detriot, at New Orleans, at Toronto
Momentum is a powerful thing.
* Hawks trade {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut}
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
Seriously, you need to put an end to "The Trade."
You’re taking nonsense. You want Bogut!?! Really dude? The same Bogut that has been injured 5 out of 13 games this season? The same Bogut who hasn’t had a full 82-game season since his rookie year, wait for it… in 2005? The same Bogut who has been averaging 62 games a season for the past 6 years? Or the same Bogut who has been in the league for two years longer and has LOWER career averages in Field Goal %, Free Throw %, 3 Pt %, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, and PPG than Horford.
Horford is still competing better than a your choice of a legitimate Center all while he is still “undersized.” Oh wait, I missed something, Bogut was still higher than Horford in two statistical categories… committing personal fouls and turning the ball over.
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Jan 19, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Bogut is less assisted than Horford. Horford's high #s are a product of the surrounding talent. Everyone is starting to notice this. Even Zaza's #s WS/48 tbs are near equal to Horford.
It seems you’re looking at averages and not talent. I wondered why his #s are so bad but have you seen the Bucks play with or without Bogut?
Aside from FT% (and 3P% lol why list that?)Horford’s #s would go down as well.
Horford’s the 4th option and excels. Bogut is his team’s 1st option and has to create for everyone else. You got Ivan Johnson dropping double doubles now. Come on now.
Health? As long as he’s ready for the playoffs. That’s the Spurs mentality. That’s was Boston’s mentality and LA’s mentality.
Put up Bogut’s defensive #s and his % of assisted #s. That argument is becoming more and more of losing everyday.
Check any efficiency numbers. The 4th option center is usually as efficient as a star and the 1st option suffers from ‘overuse’ on offense.
That’s all moot right now. Horford can’t be traded due to BYC, until March 1st. So until then we’ll just have to watch the games and wait to see what trades and free agents open up.
* Hawks trade {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut}
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 20, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Dude Centers are overrated
A majority of them in the league suck, so when you see somebody half way decent people have a tend to overrate their actual talent and production level
Knicks fans DESPERATE...
Chanting"We Want Woodson"….. Bibby is afraid he will find himself guarding most of the centers in the league…after the switch.
joe has been playing good recently to close games
It must be getting close to the all star game
Ivan Johnson does not buy ground beef, he just takes a whole cow, runs it through his beard, and fully cooked hamburgers come out.
by Throw on Jan 20, 2012 2:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
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