2011 Atlanta Hawks Player Review: Kirk Hinrich
by Kris Willis on Jun 10, 2011 8:29 AM EDT
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I will admit that when the trade was announced I was less than thrilled with the move to acquire Kirk Hinrich and Hilton Armstrong from the Washington Wizards for Mike Bibby, Jordan Crawford, and this year's first round pick. However, I think I liked Hinrich more and more each time I watched him play. Whether Atlanta overpaid to get him remains to be seen. I am reserving judgment on Jordan Crawford's offensive explosion at the end of the season for Washington until he plays some actual meaningful games. Although he clearly showed that he is a talented scorer and would have likely been a nice replacement for Jamal Crawford.
Hinrich was clearly an upgrade defensively over Mike Bibby and seemed to gel with the rest of the team more and more as time went on. His perimeter defense on Jameer Nelson was a big factor in Atlanta upsetting Orlando in the first round of the playoffs. In a peculiar way, he was also a factor in the Chicago series as it was his hamstring injury against Orlando that cleared the way for Jeff Teague's emergence.
Hinrich started 22 of 24 games with Atlanta and appeared in six more playoff games. He averaged 8.6 points and 3.3 assists per game while shooting 43 percent from the floor. He hit on 42 percent of his three point shots.
Hinrich is owed $8.1 million next season in what is the last year of his current deal. His presence and versatility provides Atlanta with several options. With the emergence of Jeff Teague, Hinrich could either start in the backcourt along side Teague with Joe Johnson shifting to small forward or Hinrich could assume the sixth man role off the bench with Jamal Crawford's likely exit.
Whether the combination starts or not, it is likely that you will see Teague and Hinrich on the floor together some next season which is a clear upgrade defensively in my opinion. Also with Hinrich's deal expiring, he would seemingly be a valuable chip on the trade market if Atlanta chose to go that route.
One of the things I liked most about Hinrich was that he was visibly upset with Atlanta's lack of ball movement. There was several times during the season where he clearly threw up his hands as the ball stuck on one side of the floor. With a full training camp he should be able to further integrate himself into the team this season.
Hinrich is a pro's pro. A throwback so to speak. I would like to see more of his teammates adopt that blue collar attitude on a more consistent basis.
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I love Kirk.
He plays smart and it shows. Just watch him pass to the wing and strongly cut away from the ball. It’s a thing of beauty. I had never watched a lot of him prior to the trade, but his defense is completely awesome. Say what you want about the trade (and, really…quit whining), but it filled a major need in a big way.
I’ll be interested to see what Kirk can do with more time to gel with the team.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
agree
there were times when he came in the came and the offense seemed more controlled
I like to think of Jeff Teague as our secret weapon..... so secret that the Atlanta coaches have no idea who he is.
I'd tend more to a bit rude.
Will making it back to the Eastern Conference Semis give Larry Drew another year at the helm?
+1
I think having a full off-season with the team that he can provide more of a leadership role and continue to mentor Teague(and the rest of the team with his basketball IQ). I reckon he’d be a quality replacement for Jamal with his ability to fill in at both the 1 and the 2 off the bench, and if we can move JJ this off-season he’d be a good fit at the 2 with Teague at the 1.
Will making it back to the Eastern Conference Semis give Larry Drew another year at the helm?
Agreed with everything
Your right Duff, it was great to see a Hawk PASS and CUT. Great to see and outsider come to the system and express that he feels something at times is profoundly broken about how we move (or choose not to move) the ball. I too was hesitant about the trade but am pleased to say i really think he will work out for this team.
Captain Kirk is good like a multivitamin for the Hawks. If you don’t understand that then I don’t blame you but if you do then glad we’re on the same page.
by HoopsHighlights&Hope on Jun 10, 2011 9:22 AM EDT reply actions
He should improve. We’ll see how the front office feels about his chances of improving when the trade for Ellis happens or doesn’t happen.
"I don't want to be the next Michael Jordan, I only want to be
Kobe Bryant"
-Kobe Bryant
Maybe we should make a play for Iggy.
Will making it back to the Eastern Conference Semis give Larry Drew another year at the helm?
I like Hinrich and I’m ok with the trade. The Hawks’ window for winning is right now, and that trade represented Sund’s intention to go for it. Hinrich will do a lot more to give Atlanta a shot at a title during the time he is with the Hawks than Jordan Crawford and whatever stiff they picked with the 1st round draft pick would. I’d like to see Teague start and Hinrich come off the bench to backup Jeff and Joe.
As well as Kirk played, though
Just about the best thing he did was to get hurt right before the Chicago series and clear the way for Teague. That could have huge ramifications on the Hawks next year.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I have to agree
It is kind of ironic because the coaching staff was backed into having to play Teague
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Jun 10, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is mind boggling.
Does he not play well in practice?? How can a guy with that much ability become an afterthought on this team until “In case of emergency, break glass” happens? It really shakes my confidence in the coaching staff. Well…more than it already was I guess.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
Yeah
In that series he looked, if not like a star, at least like a starting-caliber point guard in the NBA. The coaching staff couldn’t even find rotation minutes for him for a team that was shallow at the guard spots and had a supreme need to upgrade their point guard production. It does speak toward a lack of competence.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
It's Funny
Because during the Orlando series’ I was thinking that if Teague doesn’t play significant minutes against Chicago in the next round then we wouldnt have a chance. It’s sad what happend to Kirk but honestly, I was a little “overjoyed” when he went down….sorry kirk :-/
With that being said, knowing what we know now about JT. The Hawks have to play him or Teague has leverage and can just request a trade and more than half of the league will be blowing up Ricks phone.
by TruthClarity on Jun 10, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes people don't play well in practice, it happens.
There are plenty of good reasons not to play him. Think about how much better a player Josh Smith could be if he had been benched for taking jump shots in his first few years.
Captain Kirk proved himself but he has no future for Hawks
Teague is our starting point guard. And we need a big man. He is probably the strongest chip we have we can use to ger a center. Also if we don’t trade him, that assistant coach will not let Teague play. So Kirk must be traded.
My respect to him for his work in Orlando series, and for his work ethic. But he seems to get injured easy, is not as fast as Teague, and clearly was not hitting on all cylinders before the Orlando series.
Still, he is a player, and we need to trade him while we can
Time will tell if you are right
but I think Kirk can slide into that sixth man role quite nicely as he can back up either guard spot. Of course you are right and there is the possibility that Teague might not start next year. You’d have to think though after his performance against Chicago that they would lean in that direction.
I have stuck up for Drew on numbers of occasions but even I have run out of excuses for his handling of Teague. He has to start next season in my opinion.
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Jun 10, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure if we need to trade Kirk
We definitely need to let Jamal walk. Kirk could fill his role excellent. He’s not a shot creator, at least not for himself, but he makes an excellent third guard in that he can defend at least competently and he can initiate the offense. Plus he gets onto guys for lack of ball movement. And he can make threes at a similar rate to Jamal, even if he doesn’t have the same reputation for unstoppable hot shooting streaks.
I’d be happy with him in a three guard rotation of Teague, Jamal, and JJ (though I would like it if we had a Jason Kapono type in there too as a pure shooter) paired with whatever we end up with in the frontcourt. I’m still in favor of trading Josh, if we trade anyone. I don’t know what we’d get for Josh, but he’s probably the trade candidate most likely to actually return something of equal value back to the franchise.
I don’t know what to do about Drew. He needs to be assertive, take some control over the team, and force them to run his offense. And he also needs to recognize the difference between someone who is contributing to the team and someone who is not. He did coach extremely well in that Orlando series, at least one or two games in the Bulls series, so perhaps there is hope.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I think we should play both of them as a rotation at point guard
Going into the season at least. Kirk should start. You have to make Teague take it. You just do.
I'm not sure i trust this coaching staff to recognize Teague "taking" it.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Then we need a new coaching staff
Either way he needs to play major minutes. But who’s starting is more of a political and sometimes psychological thing.
And lets be honest Teague played six good games. It doesn’t make him a starter. He still has to earn that
Kirk move was still bad
The move was bad no mixing words over here. We gave up 2 1st round picks and took on $700,000 or so more in salary next year in the Kirk deal. The team has a worse record with Hinrich than before he came. Please dont tell me about how the schedule got tougher because I know that, but why go and give up all that to get Hinrich if he was not going to make you better against better competition, like the playoffs? Kirk was clearly picked up to help us against the playoff level teams and he didn’t for the most part. Yes, he helped us against Orlando, but he was simply bad in the regular season and did not help us against playoff level competition.
Next, when you say a guy averaged 8.6 pts and 3.3 assists and Larry Drew still would not play Teague in the regular season, I have a problem with him even being a option if that’s all he can do and his coach still feels the need to start him. He must be removed as a option just like Bibby was in order for this team to make the next step. Hinrich’s great basketball IQ is just another myth being that it can not be seen in his numbers or the teams he played on last years winning percentages. Take Hinrich’s time in Washington and Atl last year and you will see that he did not make anyone better in a way that can be proven.
Lastly, the 18th pick this year is nothing to overlook. There are 14 lottery picks. We are 4 picks removed from the lottery, Hinrich made us that good, LMAO. I would much rather have Jordan, the 18th pick and give Bibby’s expiring away this summer or next season, but we have Hinrich. He has good trade value and should be traded.
Hinrich in a sign in trade to the Kings for Dalembert
If the G State deal happens and its Monta Ellis and Lee, send Hinrich, Lee and the 2012-13 1st round pick to the Bucks for Andrew Bogut and Corey Maggette
by superiorblogman on Jun 10, 2011 1:43 PM EDT reply actions
Very good fantasy basketball trade
and while we are on the subject. Name the last good team that Corey Maggette played on? Duke? I thought it was comical last season how everyone thought his presence was going to push the Bucks to new heights.
This draft is so week that the 18th pick isn’t much different than a second round pick, hence its inclusion in the trade.
@Kris_Willis
I see we both have fantasies
You fantasize that you are a dictator whose opinion will always be right or you will be able to attack the next person and they cant say anything back. Listen, instead of attacking my so-called fantasy basketball trade why don’t you show me where Kirk made the Hawks better in facts? Why don’t you prove that the draft is weak and not just some hearsay or blinding following the opinions of the same people that told you Marvin Williams should go #2 regardless of who was picking?
In your fantasy world Kirk Hinrich undoubtedly made the Hawks better and noone can ever refute that. In your fantasy world you know the draft is so weak because you and the experts are once again fortune tellers.
In my reality fact based world Kirk Hinrich did not make the Hawks a better team and the # 18 pick is 4 picks removed from the lottery and there could be a damn good pro available there.
by superiorblogman on Jun 10, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow I have never been called a dictator.
In my fantasy world, Atlanta wouldn’t have ever gotten past Orlando with Kirk Hinrich. Time will tell if the draft is weak or not but there isn’t a lot of superstar talent in this draft although there will be some serviceable pros. Picking at 18 this season isn’t likely to produce someone as good as Jordan Crawford.
By the way it is clear that you aren’t interested in having any discussions. I could really care less if you agree with me or not for the record. Many times the people that comment on this site don’t agree with me and that is fine. They know that is a means to some serious discussion on a subject that we are all passionate about. You are the only one getting upset when someone disagrees with you.
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Jun 10, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll be the guy. If I have to get in trouble, so be it.
Reading your posts makes my dick itch. You have nothing to contribute in any positive manner other than how you want to trade for every Ricky Davis clone in the NBA. You obviously do not watch the games…you spectate through a box score. Anyone who knows anything about basketball could see (by, you know, watching the games) that Kirk was a gigantic help to the team over Bibby.
Secondly, I refuse to sit here and have you call Kris (or any other contributor here) a “dictator”. This site is run extremely well by people who have other things to do than babysit whiny instigators like yourself. If you’re getting warned or put on timeouts, you deserve it. You contribute nothing. You bring nothing of any value to the site. Please, just take your ball and go home.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
by Duff_Man on Jun 10, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What the hell? A dictator? Who the bleep are you? You SAY you just want to have an open discussion, but you can’t help but sling vitriol at the author of site just because he disagrees with your opinion (which deserves to be disagreed with-that’s a pretty lame trade idea). Bringing the “We should trade this guy for this guy and these guys for this,” discussion here doesn’t really add a whole lot, either, especially when you’re being utterly unrealistic about players’ values.
Try having a respectful discussion instead of starting stupid arguments. You’re like a 9 year old who wants to play XBOX instead of doing his homework. And yes, I mean that as disrespectfully as possible. I don’t give a shit-you’re lowering the level of discourse here single handedly. If you’re not going to get banned, you need to learn how to have an actual discussion like an adult or get the hell out.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Attack Attack Attack
Anybody that knows something about basketball, if I had said that to one of you crybabies Mr. Willis would have come at me telling me how things are going to go, but since you guys have been around each other rubbing each others backs its okay for you to be disrespectful towards me. Let’s have the open discussion. Someone show facts how Hinrich made this team better. Remember Orlando was a worse team than the year before which is factual, so it is quite possible that they beat themselves with those trades. As I remember Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter, and Gortac all hurt us.
by superiorblogman on Jun 10, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
As for you Bronn
You would not say any of that to my face, big man to blatantly disrespect someone over the internet which is something I don’t do. I will give you a place we can meet and see how tough you really are. Your like a faggot that comes to the game with your panties on talking mess to Kobe or Noah hoping that Mr. Stern steps in for you and fines them when you started it.
by superiorblogman on Jun 10, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Well it is about time to wrap this up.
We won’t be threatening bodily harm on anyone here nor setting up places for people to meet.
@Kris_Willis
Only if it's scented!
Vanilla Almonds please!
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Internet tough guys are the best
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
He sent me an e-mail asking me, again, to meet up so he could kick my ass
Some people just carry too much personal baggage in the world.
But hey, apparently he’s a Mississippi State Alum. Doing the school proud, he is!
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
The funny thing is that he called ME an internet tough guy
When he’s the one who claims he’ll kick my ass anytime, anywhere.
Pot, meet kettle.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
That type of stuff
Is the reason I quit reading the comments on MCs blog on ajc. I was thankful when I found this site.
by Hawk n the Ham on Jun 10, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Assuming it is who it may be KW...
aka the multi-named Truthspitter, ya might want to target the IP address and not just the user name.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 13, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
it he's smart
He’ll go to different hot spots and receive a new ip address everytime
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
certainly had the same m.o.
obsession with particular players that don’t really deserve such obsession (i.e. Whiteside, etc), and quick to insult on anyone who didn’t think he was the smartest mind not employed by the NBA.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
LMAO Whiteside
I completely forgot about that
I like to think of Jeff Teague as our secret weapon..... so secret that the Atlanta coaches have no idea who he is.
Where
is the professor of Kirk-ology? She hasn’t been around
"You come at the king, you best not miss."
by a hooter's baby on Jun 10, 2011 1:47 PM EDT reply actions
I've been at summer camp with 70 teen-age girls (long story)
And before that filling sand bags in a hopefully not futile effort to stop the Missouri River – it’s been a long couple of weeks with no time to relax at the computer.
But you’ll be happy (I hope…) to know that the second place on I came to get caught up (after email) now that I’m back online was here, and it’s lovely to be back.
As far as Kirk, I’d love for him to stay to see how he’d fit in with a training camp to build off of – but I also get he’s a possible trading chip to fill a bigger need than PG. I am glad many people around here appreciated his contributions to the team, and can separate the issues surrounding the trade from actual analysis of his team contributions.
And just in case he does get traded – I’ve greatly enjoyed Peachtree Hoops so far. This sounds corny, but I actually do feel very lucky that he’s played for teams with good SBNation blogs. I’d hate to go to one of the teams that has 3 comments in a gamethread and not much good basketball discussion!
Kirk's ok
But the trade itself seemed to be self serving to Rick Sund keeping his job than anything. In the MC and 790 the zone interviews he kept repeating the hawks mediocre accomplishments like defeating the Magic and being one of few NBA teams to go to the second round three years straight. Those are mentionable for a team that is young, but he never mentioned the team goal of winning a championship, as if marginal achievements will be enough for season ticket holders.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
well is it Sund or ownership???
Where is Straight talk when we need him – lol
I mean Sund was clearly off the hook, in his mind any way and my mind to some extent, when ownership did not agree to his coaching request for D Casey. Once ownership chose the cheapest path forward in LD, then all bets are off.
I mean LD is/was the reason Teague does not play. There was almost a mutiny on how bad Bibby is by players and fans. Heck i am watching Heat play Mavs, and can not stop laughing when i watch how bad Bibby is nowadays. So Sund was forced/asked for a trade by the fact LD would not let Teague play. So is it really on Sund, LD, or ownership? I say it was on ownership and LD first before on Sund.
Sund picked JC2, so he must have liked him. Sounds like i am defending Sund, and i hate myself for that, but it is how i see it. JC2 was insurance for when Jamal is gone. And losing the first round pick hurts, regardless of how weak we think draft is. Bottom line, draft is not a science and no one knows who the next Dirk or D-Wade or Rondo are.
Sund doesn't have a great history of excellent basketball moves
But it’s really hard to separate him from ownership situations. It’s clear that hiring Larry Drew was an ownership move, when Sund wanted to hire Duane Casey. Resigning Bibby seems to have been more of an ownership move. Signing JJ to the max was definitely an ownership move, but it was probably one we’d have been forced into regardless who the owners were. Being forced into these decisions and also forced to remain below the luxury tax has really forced him into doing things like signing Josh Powell and Etan Thomas. And the lack of ability of the coaching staff to develop Teague forced the Hinrich trade, moreso than Sund forced the issue himself.
Still, though, stupid things like going all-in on JJ and then selling a draft pick, then sending two first round picks to a non-competing team for a contract that they LOVED shedding, for a player they had no use for, those are crappy moves.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
How do you know any of this?
This is all pure speculation. Please no one take this as truth because it is nothing but rumors.
by far the greatest pic
I like to think of Jeff Teague as our secret weapon..... so secret that the Atlanta coaches have no idea who he is.
what happens after we run out of players to comment on
what if season doesn’t start for another year :( It will get tiring to comment on the the events of last year for 2 years in a row
He still gets away with the world, too
Like a clear double dribble, and he’s always getting an extra pivot foot whenever he needs it.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Wade is influencing him...he is King Flop now, too.
Once he wails around on the floor for 5 minutes, his training will be complete.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
In the last game
Wade was doubled and clearly pick up his pivet foot a couple of times and no whistle.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
I kind of think they bring out the worst in each other, basketball-wise
Which sounds weird, I know – but the things each did that bugged me (mainly in a fundamentals sense) I now see the other doing.
Then again, maybe I’m just more aware of it because I’ve just seen the first guy do it. Or I’m just grouchier because I don’t really care for either and really want the Mavs to win.
It honestly didn't used to bug me so much
But after getting every benefit of the doubt and the ability to get away with walking pretty much anytime he posts someone up, to say that he can’t win because of his teammates in Cleveland is utterly at odds with reality.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
really ?
I thought the crab dribble was legal. Also I thought lowering your shoulders while driving the ball was allowed, I wonder of the heat or stern is gonna force a game 7
I like to think of Jeff Teague as our secret weapon..... so secret that the Atlanta coaches have no idea who he is.
Hey we have a lot of stuff planned for around here
Just have to get Jason over his ACL surgery
@Kris_Willis
He has had his surgery and was doing well the last time I talked to him
I expect an emphatic return any day now
@Kris_Willis
kirk hinrich is awesome
please trade him back to chicago por favor…….
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
kris
Glad you got rid of that guy, he was definitely bringing nothing positive. That said, kirk has been great in Atlanta & I wouldn’t get rid of him. The main position that they need to focus on is a starting center who plays defense & is a rebounding machine. Without kirk we don’t make it out of the 1st round with drew not playing teague
by cory2223 on Jun 10, 2011 9:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I'm really looking forward to seeing what the team can do with both Hinrich, and Teague playing major roles.
I think that they will complement each other very well on both sides of the court. We could do a lot worse than a line-up of Teague, Hinrich, Joe, Smoove, Horford, Zaza, and whatever we can get for Marvin (hopefully a center that defends and rebounds well) and our second round pick this year (just kidding Hoopinion).
A backcourt
Of hinrich and teague is very go in terms of ball movement defensive and minimal iso lol plus havin jj at sf will force better play outta hum cos hell be up against lebron deng etc but I really think we need a true centre…….. samuel dalember for marvin
Hinrich
I’m still not sold on what all we gave up for him (the pick I could live with and it would be the one I would choose if given the option between it and JC2), but overall I’d be a crazy person if I said he didn’t bring any value at all to this team. He is clearly a huge upgrade over Bibby defensively and honestly, offensively as well. The fact that this team has a coach who can’t or won’t enforce his gameplan combined with players who can’t or won’t stick to said gameplan, isn’t an indictment of Hinrich, but rather just another example of the things that truly hold this team back.
Hinrich has one more year on his contract and I don’t see a reason to move him, although he would definitely hold more value on the trade market than most of the players on the team. I think we should keep him and let he and Teague split the point duties. It would be absolutely wonderful if JC and the ASG could get a good deal done that allowed him to stay at a lower rate and let the three of JC, JJ, and KH rotate through the SG position.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
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