SB Nation Atlanta Editor's Pick
Jordan Crawford takes on the World - Teague has a Chair
by ManBwoy on Mar 21, 2011 1:57 AM EDT
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PrintDespite playing an extremely talented NBA D-League team tonight, and despite his Hawks being more or less in control of the game throughout, Coach Larry Drew opted to bless Jeff Teague with another DNP. Teague, whose performances have been up and down during his erratic playing time this season, is just over a week removed from his "breakout game" against the Portland Trailblazers. Meanwhile, on another court in another city, former Hawks rookie Jordan Crawford was doing his best impersonation of (pardon the cliche - I had to do it) another Jordan. And yes, that is Yi Jianlian peeping in from the side in this old picture of JC2. 1 on 5, baby.
After the March 12th Blazers game, Coach Drew had the following to say about Teague. "I've never stopped believing in this kid because I see what the package is with him..." Heart warming words to say the least. Yet, despite the lip service, all the signs that actually count point to Teague's definitively weaker showings in the games since then having caused Coach Drew to, well, stop believing in him. Following the Portland game, Teague earned two starts but saw his playing time go from 44 to 27 to 20 minutes. Teague didn't get into Friday's thorough beatdown by the Miami Heat until "earning" 17 minutes of garbage time - despite the far-fetched idea that his speed could be a useful angle of attack against an increasingly geriatric Mike Bibby.
Interestingly enough, while Teague's minutes appear to be on the decline, his former teammate has seen his share of the clock increase substantially following injuries and Washington's apparent decision to emphasize rookie playing time for the remainder of this lost-cause season. Incomprehensibly, there appears to be some sort of correlation between playing time and player productivity. Consider:
Jordan Crawford as a Hawk: 41 DNP-CD's... in 16 games he averaged the following: 10mpg, 4.2ppg on 35.1 percent shooting, .9 turnovers and assists, 1.8 rebounds, and .2 steals.
Jordan Crawford post-Hawks: 0 DNP-CD's... in his first 11 games he averaged the following: 24mpg, 12.3ppg on 40.3 percent shooting, 2.1 turnovers, 2.3 assists, 1.9 rebounds, and 1.4 steals.
All of which brings us to tonight. While Teague was breaking in the cushion on his bench chair so that it won't squeak when he shifts his weight, Crawford posted the following stats (while helping Washington remember what it feels like to win): 44 minutes, 21 points on 47 percent shooting, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 0 turnovers, 3 steals, and 1 block. Now. I'm not trying to say that playing Teague every night will turn him into a world beater. I'm not even saying that he will turn out to be a good player. What I absolutely am saying, however, is that giving him consistent, meaningful minutes every night will make him better. And making him better will allow us to decide what to do with/about him for the future.
Especially considering that our financial ceiling for next year is Gary Coleman high (may he rest in peace), and - oh yeah - we no longer have an upcoming 1st round draft pick, and essentially only Pape Sy from last year's draft to develop, we need to squeeze every last drop of talent out of the players we already have.
Except for Josh Smith's three point shooting "talent." In fact, I very much want those drops un-squeezed. #FreeTeague
A FanPost expresses the opinion of the community member who wrote it and not that of the blog management.
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I agree.
The worst was when both Joe and Jamal went down with injuries this year, and Drew still couldn’t find one minute of playing time for JC2. That’s when I knew it was hopeless to think he would get a chance in ATL. He was a steal in the draft, and on a team where a few players’ large contracts are gonna make it impossible to add any talent to this core, JC2 could have been a valuable asset for this team in the near future. The fact that we got rid of him makes me think the Hawks are gonna break the bank this offseason to try to resign Jamal. Instead, we could have kept a player who was 10 times cheaper and 10 years younger. Not to mention, JC2 plays better defense and has all of the potential in the world.
Thanks!
my twitter followers were gettin tired of me so had to take it elsewhere lol
Go Big Red, Falcons, Braves & Hawks.
Same as here.. @ManBwoy
lol probably not a great idea given how todays companies web stalk potential employees but w/e
Go Big Red, Falcons, Braves & Hawks.
my fault I wasn't even thinking about that
Would you like for me to delete you comment?
@KrisPTHoops
by Kris Willis on Mar 22, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
haha no it's ok
what I meant was it’s probably not a great idea that I use the same s/n everywhere… makes it easy for companies to follow me around lol
Go Big Red, Falcons, Braves & Hawks.
Another perspective
Perhaps what happened with the trade of Kirk for Bibby and JC2 and 1st rounder, is a by-product of a short-term view of the world. It is hard to imagine any NBA team giving up that much talent, in a trade for a solid veteran point that has already been traded twice because the younger better talent had taken his place on other teams, and though solid, Kirk really is not the player to make you bridge the gap.
What can make Hawks management make such moves when clearly, we have three young talents (JC2, Teague, 1st rounder that was traded) that can ultimately help the team cost wise and energy wise shortly? Any one can see that except…
What if the team is really really for sale? And what if the owners don’t have a long term view of the world? They don’t want to develop talent. They are in it for now and they only care to win now. By winning, they can also get more crowds in, and give the “appearance” of a healthy organization to a interested buyer. This is the only reason I can imagine ASG offering JC2, a first rounder, and Bibby for a older veteran and a bench big. That is the only reason I can justify JJ’s six year contract, or even possible talk of a Jamal signing and agreeing to let a lost coach leave talent like Teague on the bench.
If you as the owner fully intend to sell, and not stay in the business long term, then your view of the world is different than us poor fans who love the Hawks, no matter what, and are in it long term. ASG doesn’t want to develop. They want to simply use the talent and squeeze as much as possible for now. Developing talent takes time, is risky, and can cause even more pain (losses in short term). I can not imagine Sund as out of touch with reality as he is drafting players he believes in (Teague and JC2), and then not demanding they be played or even worse turning around and trading them. What can drive a crazy policy of trading cheap young talent for old veteran talent and keeping old expensive veteran talent when a organization is in dire financial shape?
The only thing one can reasonably conclude, is that ASG wants to win now, and only now, and future as in next year or next few years be darned, that is some other owner’s mess to deal with. So they trade away or let rot young talent, and we have to witness the disaster that is in the making.
That makes some sense, and it's unfortunate
It would be nice to have some balance between winning now and developing for the future. Like I said in the game thread, I think JT’s caught in a minutes crunch because LD views JC as a 6th man rather than a backup SG. Kids tend to lose out in those situations unless they have made themselves indispensable (either through draft position or by their play).
I do think Kirk is in general the better PG right now. I don’t have an issue with him starting. At the same time, JT should get the backup minutes in my opinion. With the way Kirk plays on defense, he’s more effective in the 30-34 minute range than with more minutes. When he plays towards 40, he ends up out of gas at the end. That would leave a nice, consistent chunk of PT for JT giving him a breather in both halves. Then he’s got some PT to fall back on if Kirk goes down with an injury, and is ready to step in when Kirk moves on.
Anyway, point is that there’s a lot of room between starting and DNPs.
Look like you're right
and it it looks like the Hawks are rapidly on their way to becoming a pathetic joke again (if they are not already). Well, that was a nice run we had there! What was it, 18 months as a non-joke? 12?
Pardon me for being cynical. The Hawks have taught me to accept nothing less.
You’re preaching to the choir. Amen. If there’s one thing that has remained consistent the last several years of Hawks basketball spanning 2 GMs and 2 head coaches, it is poor use of the draft and poor development of young players. At least after this trade, we’ll be spared seeing the Hawks draft some marginal player in the late first round this summer then never play him next year.
I still like the Heinrich trade. Jordan and the draft pick were the price the Hawks had to pay to get Washington to take Mike Bibby’s bad contract and washed up play. That’s what you have to do when you hand out extensions to aging players like free candy and then surprise, surprise their skills go in the crapper.
But hinrich’s contract is of equal length and is actually more expensive. So we payed a couple of million dollars in addition to Crawford and a first for the upgrade from bibby to hinrich.
by danielduello on Mar 21, 2011 7:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep.
What’s fascinating about any defense of the Hinrich trade is the assumption that the team got better in the short term. Maybe they did, but overall not enough—and now they have another bad contract on the books for one more year. Moreover, Hinrich’s production hasn’t been very good since joining the Hawks. It is, in fact, right in line with his production while in Washington—about 10 ppg, a few assists, decent on-the-ball defense.
My point is that the Hawks should be able to find average point guards for less than $9 million a year, and for less than Jordan Crawford and a first round pick. Hinrich has his uses for Atlanta, and I certainly, absolutely, prefer him over Bibby. But there is no sense in having to give up all that the Hawks did for a player like Hinrich, even if their sights were set solely on winning in the short term. That’s the problem: even without a keen understanding of player development, they’re not much good at being short-sighted either.
That's what I thought
But then I was just so happy to see something other than “BLOW IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!” that I decided to ignore it. ;)
Although in seriousness, I think we have some good players which goes against blowing it up, but I’m not at all sold that we don’t need to change out some pieces.
there is talent on this team
just terrible coaches
Partially functional, half of me is comfortable. the other half is close to the cliff like Mrs Huckstable
If Tyrone Hill and Sam Cassell had a staring contest, who would win?
On an unknown date in the year 2012, Mike Brown and Mike Woodson will come together to discuss offensive strategies.
I just dont understand Drew really?
I mean after we play NY and DEN both of their coaches had high praise for JT and then we bench the guy. HONESTLY JT WILL BE A STAR IN ATLANTA BUT ITS A SHAME HE’LL BE ON THE VISITING TEAM.
No excuse
There is no excuse for Teague not to get some minutes. Does Drew really think the guy will get better with no minutes. I am glad we won, but this is getting ridiculous.
It is fair to mention
that Jordan is playing on one of the worst teams in the league and no doubt has a green light to put up any kind of shot that he wants without worrying about winning or losing.
With that said I would still like to have him next season as a replacement for Jamal.
@KrisPTHoops
He has surpassed Nick Young and Gil Arenas in usage rate in his time in Washington.
He also is among the most inefficient shooters on the Wizards, who have their share of inefficient guys to compete with. People looking only at the PT and points are missing a lot in the analysis.
But it is hard with a rookie, who not only has that vaunted potential to cling to, but also plays for so little.
I wish JC2 were on this team next season
but his absence this season doesn’t change anything with this team. I am glad he is getting to play but it goes back to the old argument. Would you rather be on a bad team where you can play and score or on a good team where you sacrifice but win?
@KrisPTHoops
why it it that it must be either or?
Why can we not grow our young ones like every other team in the NBA? Hawks are not that good. If we were Lakers, ok. But we are not Lakers. We are at best a 50 win team, that is not going anywhere. NOw we are not even that. Not playing them, is really just messing with our future at the expense of a few wins a year.
We keep giving minutes to Bibby and Jamal thinking that things will turn out better. I think just as Teague proved vs. Portland, they can win games with their energy, that Bibby and Jamal can not win any more.
This argument is not valid
I think the thing is that he's really not playing well enough to justify time overall
And on a good team that means you miss those nights where he does go off. No, the Hawks are not the Lakers, but they are locked into making every effort at winning now because of the commitment to JJ. The few wins a year you give up for development can make a huge difference. I don’t think nearly all the other teams do develop their kids by a long shot.
I agree with you it doesn’t have to be either or – but lots of good teams only find time for the kids in garbage time. We haven’t had much garbage time for JT to get in on. I was hoping they’d pull away last night to be comfortable at least playing him 4 or 5 to close out. I’m also strongly of the opinion that we should give the backup PG minutes to JT, so I’m not saying don’t play him at all.
But to the topic of this string of posts, pointing at Jordan as “proof” that we should play JT is mistaken. There are other reasons to do so.
What about following the "Boston" model?
Where Doc Rivers played a sophomore Rajon Rondo alongside his veteran core and just kept a really tight rein on him as far as shot selection and how far he opened up the playbook? Rondo played 20+ mpg his rookie year and almost 30 after that. The NBA pg isn’t a role that you can learn from the bench – it just moves too fast for that.
I’m not saying that Teague will ever be as good as Rondo (who frighteningly is still improving) OR that our veteran core is as good as Boston’s. I am saying that Teague needs more than 4-5 minutes of garbage time to develop.
Go Big Red, Falcons, Braves & Hawks.
I've said before I'd like him to get at least 14-18 minutes
That I just meant specific in that game. I wanted him to play backup PG, but then it became obvious that wasn’t going to happen so I moved onto hoping for garbage time so he could get some PT. But I start every game hoping we don’t see Jamal at point at all.
Backup PG is better than garbage time is better than no PT at all.
The thing about Rondo was
They had no choice but play him and he went on the floor with three hall of famers. Had they had a veteran point guard Rondo might not have got the starting job that early.
@KrisPTHoops
Or if he didn't have those Hall of Famers to guide him...
might not have been as good as he’s become.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
They did, I think
Wasn’t Marbury on that team? And House?
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
I see this argument elsewhere
A lot of places in worse situations than Atlanta seem to think their coaches don’t play the young players enough. Atlanta just isn’t the only case. The case for JC2 all season was that Atlanta had four guards in front of him, Bibby, Joe, Jamal, and then Teague. Maybe even throw Mo Evans into that mix. There was no time for him here this season. Had he been able to play the SF then it could have been different.
@KrisPTHoops
If your inferring that Jordan Crawford had no place in the rotation...
After the ineffective play of Mo Evans and Jamal Crawford and to some extent Joe Johnson? Granted that happened most of their play dropped after he was traded but there were numerous points in the season which called for a change in the lineup. He should’ve been the 2nd SG option on the rotation right behind Johnson. The demise of this team was mainly due to complacency with the same players and a change was needed and still is needed. It is the coaches responsibility to put the best player on the court no matter if there are any so-called positional obligations to give the “6th man” or “star-player” ample minutes especially if they are not producing. Drew has trust issues with rookies
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Mar 22, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
comparing apples to oranges
This team has won like 1 or 2 games on the road ALL season. Not saying Teague doesn’t need minutes, just stating that you really can’t compare the two situations. If I’m not mistaken, JC2 is taking over 20 shots per game these days. Dude, that’s insane!!
Can't eat sushi in Utah, brother.....Landlocked
Yeah, Crawford's a gunner on a bad team
But you have to admit that most things about his game have improved with more time on the court. His shooting percentage (which still isn’t that good), his turnover to assist ratio etc – I think the only thing that’s gone down is his 3pt percentage. Ironically, this is probably a result of his freedom to shoot whatever he feels like shooting – he’s probably just chucking up threes because he can.
At any rate, I do recognize the differences, but I think the underlying premise is still valid.
Go Big Red, Falcons, Braves & Hawks.
It's not insane if he's hitting those 20 shots at a 40+% clip
If he weren’t hitting those shots, then I’d have a bigger problem with it, but currently it’s nothing different than some of the bigger stars in this league. PP, JJ, etc all require just as many if not more shots to get slightly better percentages and points. I’m not saying JC2 is in that league of players, just simply pointing out that a high volume of the league’s leaders also require a lot of shots to get theirs.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
While I don't agree with the sentiment either
Let’s all hope this doesn’t turn out to be true.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
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