Dwight Howard Rumors Still Swirl Around Atlanta Hawks (UPDATED)
Even with a 2-0 start and a game Friday against one of those two victims, the New Jersey Nets, the hot topic is still what possible chance the Atlanta Hawks have at obtaining the biggest (literally) trade chip out there, Orlando's Dwight Howard.
There was massive response, including our own, around Marc Stein's golden nugget of information regarding the Hawks interest and proposal for Dwight, a notion confirmed by the Real MC over at the AJC a couple of days ago.
Since then, there has been nothing that has squashed the notion of the Hawks chasing Howard, though MC makes an interesting addendum to the principals involved:
The Hawks did put together a deal for Howard back when the Magic had him on the market. My understanding is they did so without a commitment from Howard that he would either exercise his contract opt-in for next season or sign a long-term deal. The proposed deal eventually fell apart on Orlando's end.
I'm not certain which players the Hawks offered but it's unlikely Josh Smith was one of them. The Hawks would try to entice Howard to sign with the team long-term for the chance to play at home with his good friend.
This would make Al Horford the principal involved in any Dwight deal due to both his proficiency on the court and his long term deal. Horford is projected to easily outdistance the value in his deal, which has him locked up for four more years after this season through his Age 29 season.
Trading for Howard without any commitment beyond this season is known around Bird Watchers as a "Manning" deal, named for the multi-talented former Kansas Jayhawk, Danny Manning, who came from the Los Angeles Clippers for the greatest player to ever wear an Atlanta Hawk uniform. Manning was not immediately popular due to the team dealing its signature player and did not further endear himself to Atlanta fans by spurning a long term deal with the Hawks, instead signing a shady 1 year, 1 million dollar deal with the Phoenix Suns. The year after, Manning got paid for his "sacrifice", receiving a 6 year, 40 million dollar deal from the Suns.
That said, most Hawks fans may certainly be tempted to roll the dice on a "Manning" with Howard given, as MC mentions, the potential for a Howard/Josh Smith combination in their home city of Atlanta.
Lest you think the Magic would want more than that, consider this piece from the Orlando Sentinel that touts the possibility of the Magic, instead of getting nothing for Howard, entertaining a possible lesser package for a "rental" of the all-star center.
Yes, Horford would be the principal even in a "rental" deal for Howard, and the Hawks would have to include another salary if Howard were the only Magic player to come over. An expiring contract like that of Kirk Hinrich (8.1M) would work in that scenario. You can also assume that a future draft pick would be necessary even in a deal such as that.
Even the Hawk players have gotten into the act, with Tracy McGrady supplying some resume padding material for a life after basketball in this breakdown with Yahoo! feature writer Adrian Wojnarowski while in Newark opening night.
It's so hard for players to visualize a different day for the Nets, a Brooklyn arena that still is under construction. And so much easier to make a case for the defending NBA champion Dallas Mavericks and an owner, Mark Cuban, who is fully engaged in the championship chase. After watching the Nets offer no resistance to the Hawks in a 106-70 dismantling Tuesday night, T-Mac's vision of Howard's future had been further validated in his own mind.
"D-Will is from Dallas," McGrady said. "You've got Dirk Nowitzki there. They're going to have [cap space] there. That looks sweet. Dirk. D-Will. And then you get Dwight Howard. That's it, right there."
It's also possible that Howard do what Chris Paul did for the Clippers, which is accept the opt-in that will extend their contract out an additional year, and go through the free agent process then. With Josh Smith's contract potentially co-terminating after next season as well, there could lie a potential package deal scenario which could see both Howard and Smith leave Atlanta. They could both see what happens here and, if they don't like the situation, they can both become free agents and leave.
Such a situation would be a nightmare for a franchise rolling the dice by dealing solid all-star Horford for the possible championship maker Howard and a fan base that's never recovered from the Human Highlight Deal in 1994.
UPDATED: From Marc Stein's Weekend Dime comes this morsel from ESPN's interview with Al Horford regarding the trade rumors:
"Wow," Horford said. "I guess I'm heading back to Florida. ... I don't know, that's interesting, I know that Dwight is from here, but as far as I know, this is the first I've heard of it. But it'll be interesting."
The surprise in Horford's voice was genuine, leaving the distinct impression that the gentlemanly center kindly played along with the line of questioning but really wasn't aware of such chatter. Yet it certainly makes sense -- assuming Orlando reaches the point before the March 15 trade deadline to shop its free agent-to-be for the best possible deal it can find -- that Horford would be a name at or near the top of the Magic's wish list.
Exit Questions: The rumors will continue to fly until Howard is dealt and now that Atlanta has somewhat entered the picture, these questions will persist: Do you want Howard, how much are you willing to give, and can you accept a deal in a "Manning" situation?
For more on the Atlanta Hawks be sure to check out SB Nation Atlanta, follow Peachtree Hoops on Twitter or visit the Peachtree Hoops Facebook fan page.
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No JOSH, no JOE in the trade for D12…. I WILL TAKE IT.
The trade must have been Al(12m), Marvin(8mil) and Kirk(8mil) for D12 and Turk(11mil)….That trade is worth the risk of him not signing. If Marvin is still playing this way at the trade deadline, D12 may be in a Hawks uniform this year….And the Hawks will win a Title this season.
Al is the best player they can get in terms of skill, age, health and contract…He also played for the Gators. If that is all we have to give-up, I think he would sign or at least opt-in the additional year, because we would be a TITLE CONTENDER.
We should really focus on Hawks ball
But as I have said before, if there is a chance of getting Howard and keeping him in ATL, Hawks must go for that trade.
There is no comparison between Manning situation and Howard, ZERO. Howard is a mega super star. Proven best center in the world, and a athletic beast and from ATL. His popularity the world over, can not be at all compared to Manning who was a great college player, so so pro, but no comparison to Dominique, never was, never will be. Plus, if you walk in ATL circles, I guarantee, double guarantee, you won’t get any arguments about getting Howard for players we have, whatever combo we exchange.
Lion’s value is tremendous to ATL, but can not compare to Howard. But make no mistake, Lion is no Dominque, again never was, never will be. Howard gains huge crowds, sellouts, and makes Hawks and ASG relevant over night. ATL becomes a force to reckon with. As for trade, send JJ and Lion and Marvin, for Turk and Howard. With Teague and Smoove and Howard, T-mac and Rad and Turk, Hawks will be a force for a long time.
But sorry, no rental, he must agree to stay before we trade Lion and JJ.
By the way, the T-Mac article is great.
I have always liked TMac...
…and his mind for the game of basketball. One of the more surprising revelations throughout AllStar Weekend in ATL in 2003 was McGrady’s desire to discuss the game of basketball. The strategies, etc…he loved being asked about it and discussing it…at least he did that weekend.
by Jason Walker on Dec 30, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
At the time, though....
…Manning was a star with the Clippers, and the archived stories remind of that. Manning was also the biggest free agent of the year and it was shocking that he took a 1 and 1 deal with the Suns, with a promise to get taken care of later. Couldn’t do that in today’s CBA.
by Jason Walker on Dec 30, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Roll the dice and take the Manning deal.
I would prefer keeping Horford in any deal, but to acquire D12 I would trade anyone on our current roster
Horford and Joe for Howard and Turk
I would do it. I don’t know what else we’d need to send, maybe Kirk’s expiring deal. It would get the Hawks out from under JJ’s contract. I’d be willing to trade JJ and either of the Hawks’ two frontcourt players, but I’m not packing Horford, Josh, and JJ together. Then we’d end up taking on Howard, Turk, and Jason Richardson, and we might as well BE the Magic. There wouldn’t be any point to it, we’d not have a better team than them. And without any long term guarantees about Howard, either, plus we’d be sending out draft picks.
But if we send JJ, Horford, and a first round pick over, the real issue is building around what’s left if Howard leaves. We won’t have a first round pick, and there will be no other centers on the free agent market. Kevin Love and Brook Lopez will be RFAs, and Garnett and Duncan will be really old (and are PFs, besides). We’d almost be stuck with courting Greg Oden. Marcus Camby? Spencer Hawes? I don’t know what else we’d do. We’d only have Teague, Turkoglu, Marvin, Josh, and Zaza under contract at that point. We’d be below the cap, surely, but not enough to really make any noise. And we’re not getting guys like TMac to sign for the minimum to play with that group.
So I don’t know.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
I don't know, and don't really care
There’s not much point in debating what vet min players on one year deals might move. And the Hawks have a lot of them, which makes them somewhat boring to talk about in terms of trade details.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
Haaaaah...
I would laugh until I hurt myself if TWIN was in that trade.
I just worry if the Hawks are stuck trying to build through free agency after they send out picks
It almost never works. Trading away draft picks is a bad idea. You look at how championship teams have built themselves, and it’s either through drafted superstars, or by trading drafted assets for great players. The only way to really gain assets to build with is to draft them, unless you get really lucky with signing players to below-market deals. And restricted free agency for young players makes it tough to do that.
San Antonio Spurs: drafted David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and a ton of other bit players through the years, and have been generally the model organization over the last 15 years. They’ve only signed complementary pieces like Michael Finley and Bruce Bowen.
Boston Celtics: Yes, they drew in a bunch of star talent, but how? They draft Paul Pierce and Rajon Rondo. They traded a package of pieces included Al Jefferson to get Kevin Garnett. Getting Ray Allen was mostly about being willing to take on his contract, but they had a few pieces to send out with that as well.
LA Lakers: Okay, they made some trades. Trading for Kobe before he ever played a game….might as well have been drafting him. They draft Andrew Bynum. The Pau Gasol trade was….interesting.
Cleveland: When they were good, it was because they drafted LeBron James
Chicago Bulls: They drafted Jordan and Pippen. They also drafted Derrick Rose, and Joakim Noah, and Taj Gibson, and a slew of other guys who’ve helped them.
So I worry about the Hawks if they make this deal, send out more picks again, and Dwight walks.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
Yes, but you only get there if you're team sucks and they're in the lottery
San Antonio:
David Robinson was picked 1st overall
Tim Duncan was picked 1st overall
Tony Parker was picked 28th overall.
Manu Ginobili was picked 57th overall.
Boston Celtics:
Paul Pierce was picked 10th overall
Rajon Rondo was picked 21st overall.
Al Jefferson was picked 15th overall
L.A. Lakers:
Kobe Bryant was picked 13th overall
Andrew Bynum was picked 10th overall
Cleveland:
LeBron James was picked 1st overall
Chicago Bulls:
Michael Jordon was drafted 3rd overall
Scottie Pippen was drafted 5th overall
Derrick Rose was drafted 1st overall
Joakim Noah was drafted 9th overall
Taj Gibson was drafted 26th overall
My point is you rarely get a championship player once you get out of the lottery pool of players in the draft and that is exactly where the Hawks have been for the past 5 years. We’ve been stuck with mediocre draft prospects when our numbers are called. We’re good enough to not get into the lottery. What needs to happen is we need to suck at the right time. More of the teams have sucked at the right times to get quality, proven players in deep NBA draft like Cleveland did with LeBron James and Chicago did with Michael Jordan
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Dec 30, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
But you can get solid role players
see Rondo, Parker, Manu, Gibson, etc, etc, etc. That is the Hawks biggest problem with ever, we can’t draft for ish.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Then again Bronn
you bring up the first round pick like we’d actually do anything but waste it if we had it.
If we could land Howard AND extend him, (never gonna happen, but bear with me), we’d probably have a centerpiece to help sell the team, which would be a huge boost. We’d have a Teague, Smith, Howard core, and a lot of money to build around them once Hedo, Zaza, and Marvin expire in a year or two. Some of that money goes to extending the 3 core members, but there’d still be a good bit left to add solid role players like a sharp shooting wing, a defensive stopper for the perimeter, and then a bench. If only we made smart draft picks in the 20s to add cheap role players, but we’re in fantasy land anyway.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Just because we have done it doesn't mean
to do the illogical and just give them away either. Just because we are bad at drafting doesn’t mean – hey, we should never draft or we shouldn’t value draft picks. That just means you should fire your scouts or your GM. That’s certainly my thought. The currency of having draft picks is as valuable for us as it is for San Antonio – just keep looking for those who know what to do with those assets.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 1, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
but in the context of the never gonna happen Dwight deal, it’s not “giving them away”.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Agreed
I’ve already put my complete support behind – get DHoward by any means necessary and then spend your time trying to keep him. Even if you can’t keep him, then you get the 1-2 draft picks and players necessary to do a sign-and-trade, so it doesn’t leave you with nothing. So, I think there is a downside, but we are in a situation where the reward outweighs the risk to me. There is a micro level risk that’s great – it’s the we may not be as good as we were before, but at a macro level – it’s very little. We aren’t winning a title with this current team, so if I can raise the ceiling potentially – I’m trying.
Hawk Str8Talk
by Hawk Str8Talk on Jan 2, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Al, Marvin and/or Hinrich for Dwight and Turk
Considering Orlando would not pull the trigger until close to the trade deadline, Marvin could show consistency, and Hinrich will have played some. Orlando could look at the trade as similar to the Carmelo trade. Denver was actually better after the trade for good pieces.
I am afraid that Orlando may want Zaza, but if Atlanta is smart about the gamble they would not give Orlando too much. I mean I would love for Dwight to come to a ready made team to compete for the championship versus stripping the team from contention initially.
Teague, JJ, Turk, Smoove, D12 – That would be definite upgrade to an already good starting 5. And the bench would be the same. That’s a championship team and Dwight would be hard pressed not to continue his legacy in his hometown.
The real victim here are the refs.
What do you do? Allow DH 12 fouls a game…or foul him out because he is a Hawk? The universe may implode.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
Beating a dead horse
Why don’t we offer Kirk, Marvin,and Horford, for D12 and Ryan Anderson??? Makes alot more sense…..Hedu is a “HeDont” on defense…something we will need down the stretch….
"I'm on 1"
by I am usually right except when... on Dec 30, 2011 5:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Magic want to dump Turk and his horrible contract
He’s in the deal because the Magic want to get rid of him, not because the Hawks want him.
by IWillPartyHard on Dec 30, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
YES
If they can get this done run it.D wins championships ATL middle would be a bad to the bone!
Teague
Johnson
Smooth
Anderson
Howard
how sick would we be
on offense and defense?!?
"I'm on 1"
by I am usually right except when... on Dec 30, 2011 6:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
please god let us get DH
I have been wanting him to be a hawk for 2 years now. I have said the last 2 years that if you added DH to our team and take away horford and Marvin we would have went to the finals!!
Please do this hawks FO, please!!
Now Gentlemen, get your butts up, and get back on that horse! You have no choice. The expectations are running much higher this year.
Where do I sign up?
As bad as I would hate to trade Al Horford, I’d do it in a heartbeat for Dwight Howard. In the long run, I think Dwight Howard makes the Hawks a legitimate championship contender, and he would have a very hard time not resigning with his home town team and the team he grew up being a fan of. Plus, he would be a teammate of his best friend in the business.
Do not underestimate what having two local products as stars on this team would do as far as attendance and overall excitement in Atlanta goes. People would come out to see Dwight and Josh. People who have probably never been to a Hawks basketball game but remember those two from their high school days with Dwight at South Atlanta Christian and Josh at McEachern.
If the Hawks could pull that off and then add Louis Williams as a gunner off the bench, boy howdy!!
Howard and Horford cant co exist.
There could only be one beast down low. its either howard or horford.If they play together their production will be divided. Plus Howard must play with a small forward and a good friend Smith. So the obviuos trade would be Horford, cause magic will likely like him. A trade of Howard and Turk for Al and JJ will do. No draft picks include. Or a add Jason Collins and JJ Redick in the mix. But no drafts picks.
If a line up of :
Teauge
Tmac
Smith or M. Williams
Turk or M. Williams
Howard
Hinrich
Pachulia
Vlad
If this line up can reach eastern finals. Dwight will likely have interest in resigning with the hawks. Then build around Smith Teague and Howard through free angency and some diamond in the rough draft picks. Remember we traded Joe jhonson’s contract they will have enough money to resign Dwight in a good offer and sign either defensive SG or a great Scorer SG. Or send a package to Houston that build around M. Williams to get K. Martin.
The important thing is to make Howard stay around and make him feel he has a chance to win a Ring with ATL. After all its his Home town and winning a Ring with a Best Friend is making one of the best NBA story.
I just don’t see Dwight agreeing to opt-in like CP3 did. CP3 specifically requested the Clippers which is still a big market. Dwight has made no indication he wants to play in ATL. I think we would have already heard about it by now because it’s obvious they would have the best offers. Would ATL trade Horford for Dwight for 2 months + playoffs and then he’s probably gone this summer? Highly doubt it.

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