Dwight Howard Trade May Include Atlanta Hawks
by Jason Walker on Dec 28, 2011 1:02 PM EST
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According to ESPN's Marc Stein, who posted this story at a red-eyed 2:35am EST, the unthinkable has happened: The Atlanta Hawks have been involved in the mega-trade talks with the Orlando Magic for Dwight Howard.
From Stein's True Hoop report:
Sources told ESPN.com that the aforementioned Hawks, meanwhile, engaged Orlando in trade talks for Howard earlier this month with an offer believed to be headlined by $124 million guard Joe Johnson and swingman Josh Smith. You have to figure that the Magic, though, would insist on Al Horford if such discussions ever got serious.
The Hawks are not on Howard's short list of preferred trade destinations alongside the Nets, Los Angeles Lakers and Dallas Mavericks, even though Atlanta is his hometown. That's presumably because Howard wants no part of Atlanta's perpetually unsettled ownership situation. The Hawks nonetheless took the risk of pursuing Howard anyway and, according to sources, felt like they were making some semblance of progress before the Magic shut down talks.
The Hawks took the risk, as they should. This is about winning a championship and Dwight Howard gets you closer to that no matter who you are trading to get him. This is also about filling seats, and D12 would certainly do that in the star-hungry ATL.
Cap-wise, I am sure the trade, as stated above, does not work, much less adding in another 8-figure contract like Horford's into the mix.
Besides all of that, the rumor above is tasty for multiple reasons:
1. It means the Hawks are not letting Howard pass on by without at least trying to get him. This is big for public opinion--it's a security blanket that at least your franchise tried to make it happen. Former Hawk GM Pete Babcock always told me that teams discuss superstars all the time, but are never discussed publicly for obvious reasons---and they rarely ever happen. Still, to be involved, that is...something.
2. The ownership situation is still an issue. Michael Gearon can get out there and try and change public opinion because he says so, but it will be tough to shake the opinion that, after the prolonged lawsuit and subsequent failed sale attempt, this is a lame duck ownership group and the situation unsettling for top players until something comes to a head.
3. They got beyond the "phone screen" pass on a process that would have dealt Joe and Josh for Dwight Howard. So you're telling me there's a chance....
There's no way that the Hawks make this deal, especially if it involved Horford, if they didn't know--not feel---know, that they could sign Howard to an extension. They might do a Danny Manning type deal if it was just Joe/Josh, but I really don't believe they would risk it, even for Dwight---even though I would.
Exit Question(s): Ok ATL, your team has been mentioned prominently in trade talks for one of the marquee players in the NBA---what do you think---and how far would you go to get Howard? Any other interesting angles in this story for you?
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Any Two Players
But Only two players, not three. You trade three of the Hawks best player and they become a worse team. Honestly at this point i doubt Howard gets traded…
True. The Magic just signed Richardson to an extension, so have no pressing need for another 2 guard.
And a damn expensive one at that.
Will making it back to the Eastern Conference Semis give Larry Drew another year at the helm?
wow...
2 players though…3 would devistate our team…..unless there would be a chance we could land Ryan Anderson also.Then a starting 5 of
Teague
Heinrich
Williams
Anderson
Howard.
Looks good.Damnnn good.
"I'm on 1"
by I am usually right except when... on Dec 28, 2011 8:36 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'd trade Joe/Josh yesterday.
Nothing personal about it, but Joe’s contract is an anchor and while Smoove is dynamite and probably the best player on the team, Noooooo Josh! is most definately not.
I’d give up no more than this, and nothing that didn’t unload the JJ contract as part of the process. No Al, no way. We don’t need Howard/Josh double help defense in the paint, Howard/Horford works much better to my mind.
You'd still have to pay Dwight max money
I don’t know…..Atlanta looks pretty deep without adding anyone
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
exactly...so its a wash
and you still need shooters around dh and a pg who can set him up. remenber we beat this team even with DH playing well. No way I’d make that trade, only way I trade JJ is if I’m working a deal for for Lebron, Kevin Durant,…then I would send anybody they want in the trade
Seriously...
If we had Howard, we could find players willing to play here…
I’m not worried about surrounding him at all.
GATA!
this ain't Orlando
this is the first year the owners even thought to go over the luxury tax to aquire bench parts
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Please don't mention the name Danny Manning
I’m only just getting over the depression 17 years later.
Will making it back to the Eastern Conference Semis give Larry Drew another year at the helm?
You got over it? Must be nice.
I enjoy my malice, my precious.
by RamblininAlb on Dec 28, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
Horford has to be involved for Howard. He’s a UF legend down there just signed to a brand new long term deal. I don’t think Josh and his one year remaining and risks losing him for nothing.
Joe and Al for Dwight and Turk work on the trade checker…
Teague
Hinrich
Marv/Turk
Josh
Dwight
The kicker is the Orlando owner is old as dirt and doesn’t want to rebuild. I see his point as seeing the Hawks rebuild in my early 20’s now entering my early 30’s I need to see some type of urgency.
Agreed
Also, if Howard is dictating such a move his incentive is to be teamed up again with Smoove. The Magic would see Horford as a more suitable trade piece like what Minnesota were looking for.
Will making it back to the Eastern Conference Semis give Larry Drew another year at the helm?
I don't know
Dwight would be great….but the depth now looks pretty good (or maybe I’m just a prisoner of the moment). If Joe is involved in the trade that means TMac would be starting and I like the fact Tmac comes off the bench with Vlad Rad. Everyone wants to get rid of Joe because of his contract, but you still would have to pay him max money in the summer. If we’re worried about depth now, what about signing another 100 million dollar contract two years later without the ideal pieces around him….like the Magic were.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
couple things:
1) i dont think this is a good trade. for joe and josh, you lose too much versatility. for josh and horf, you essentially give up the core.
2) your assumption that the hawks would only make this deal if they were guaranteed an extension, while 100% logically sound, does not align with the history of this franchise. they would trade everyone on the team for 3 months of Dwight Howard and feel confident whie doing it. I dont trust ASG. The mere fact that dwight wouldnt consider settling in his hometown because of ownership should be enough to have them banned from ownership in this league. ASG blows
Give up the core?
If you gave Joe and Al, assuming they’d ask for Al over Josh, you’d have a new core. Teague, Smith, and Howard is a pretty strong core. All that’s missing is a bench, and some strong wings. But being the NBA, finding quality players 6’5-6’8 for the wings is a dime a dozen. And the bench just takes an owner willing to pay a little.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Dear Dwight
We killed the Nets last night, and the Lakers and Mavs are a combined 1-4. You don’t want to play for losers, so come to Atlanta.
Also, we’ll assure you Twin will not be involved in the trade because he owns you and being on his team will do wonders for your career.
Sound good?
GATA!
by Jman781 on Dec 28, 2011 9:42 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Great
"A ‘No’ uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Jesus
"We were real solid on both ends of the floor today and had positive energy coming from the bench tonight."
Jeff Teague
I'd trade Joe and Josh for Dwight Howard in a heartbeat.
To make it work, Orland would probably have to unload Turkoglu’s contract as well, which would be just fine.
Seriously, anyone on this board who wouldn’t make that trade is crazy, or perhaps just being a homer. The Hawks, as currently constructed, cannot win a championship. Unloading Joe Johnson’s horrific contract AND getting back Dwight Howard would be a franchise-making deal. Meanwhile, to do so without giving up would both Josh Smith and Al Horford would make national pundits’ heads explode.
I would do this trade in a heart beat
This is a generational center. One of those come around every 10 years. It is stupid to make comments about we should worry about trading two of this core as a high price for Howard. Trading Smoove and JJ for Howard is fair. I throw in Marvin if they insist. If they want Lion, I trade Lion in place of Smoove. Remember, once you have Howard, then it is easy to get other great players to join.
Listen, folks, first I think this is probably a PR ploy by ASG. Just trying to say we tried. Second, why would Orlando trade Howard within the division? Then they guarantee themselves of coming in 3rd year in and year out. And last, Howard would not sign, because he wants to choose a destination that is stable. ASG is probably doing this move to make sure team looks more attractive, and therefore they can sell it easier.
But if the intentions are true(I sincerely doubt), then it is a great move. The ticket sales alone, the TV exposure (remember gang we are on TNT like once this year), the national media exposure, and the fact that other superstars like D Williams would consider coming to a great city like ATL, the Hawks attire and accessories becoming cool, the …. Hawks will overnight become the number 1 team in ATL.
This is a no brainer, except, muscleman would never consider A town till this horrible ownership group is expelled
And one more thing
Howard will be traded. It is only a matter of which team he is traded to.
No team in NBA, will want to go through what Cleveland went through. No team would want to rebuild from scratch, when you can get many assets, for the star you will lose. Look at how loaded Denver is, compared to how miserable Cleveland is.
So a trade is going to happen. It is only a matter of how long before the trade deadline, and which destination. My money, is on the Lakers.
Lakers
Don’t have the pieces to make a trade for Dwight. It’s a pick one of Bynum or Gasol, and thats all they have. No matter which one the Magic got they’d be a worse team and probably stuck as a 7th or 8th seed in the East. Not exactly a great place to be. When you trade a superstar you want to get back enough to field a truly competitive team (see Denver in Carmelo trade) or enough to rebuild into a true contender (see New Orleans in CP3 trade). Not just one player who is worse than who you’re sending out, causing your team to languish just outside the lottery for the next few years.
If I’m Orlando, I want Horford at $12M per year through 2016 over Bynum at $16M per season for one year, or Pau at $19M per year through 2014.
Orlando could ask for Al and Marvin for Dwight straight up; or they could ask for Al and JJ for Dwight and Turk. Either way Orlando’s cap position doesn’t get any worse, only better.
If ATL made the trade that didn’t include JJ, they’d have to amnesty him before the 2013/14 season so that they could resign smoove. That would give ATL 2 seasons to try and win it all with Teague JJ Smoove and Dwight, then they amnesty JJ and build around the remaining guys.
by IWillPartyHard on Dec 28, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Just like I suggested w/ CP3 and Hawks Str8 has stated
Even without an assurance D12 signs an extension, you have to pull the trigger on this deal if the Magic are serious. He is not coming here as a free agent over LA, Brooklyn or Dallas. Now I would be a little reluctant to acquire him at the trade deadline in March I think. But he has to be sold on Atl by playing here. Now if there is an ownership group who can fok this up is ATL Spirit. For example, trade for D12 and then still refuse to go into luxury tax territory or something like that. But on a scale of 1-10 I’d give the Hawks a 2 of actually acquiring D12. I’m certain Otis Smith leaked this story to drive up the price for D12. But a fella can dream.
by xavip on Dec 28, 2011 10:12 AM EST via mobile reply actions
some you have lost your mind
you are ready to bust up a team who can challenge the best teams in the conference for a center who can’t make free throws, loses time to foul trouble, will still need a pg to set him up….cmon. You give up those parts and replace it with one player and when he fouls out then what, I get it he is a once in a lifetime player, so was Ewing, Hakeem, and Malone..between them they have 2 rings…You need 3 great players to win…so lets trade two to get one?
Yes.
For, personally, I don’t consider Josh Smith or Joe Johnson “great” players. I probably don’t consider Horford a “great” player, either.
I do consider all three, really, really good, which is why having all three works for us. That said, Joe’s contract, long-term, is a liability, and Smoove isn’t staying here for much longer. What’s the harm?
The problem: why would Orlando want Johnson and Smoove? They’d likely want Horford instead of Smoove in any deal, and I’d still make the trade, as long as Johnson left, too…
GATA!
Smoove
I would think part of trying to get Howard to stay in ATL would be pairing him with Smoove since they are good friends. For that reason, I doubt he would be included in any trade for Howard
Which is a plus...
We would have a core of Smith and Howard.
Assuming we keep Teague, I’d have no problem building around those guys…
I like Horford, but given his Florida connection, he’d almost have to be included.
Regardless, I don’t think the trade would kill our competitiveness.
GATA!
This, I do it for those two reasons...
1) get Joe’s albatross deal out of here.
2) Get a top 5 player, which history has shown is mandatory for a title.
A core of Josh, Jeff, and D12 would be pretty strong. You’d need Marvin to step up on the wings, and then add a SG (of which several could fit the bill if Teague pans out) and keep the bench strong.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
How about Shaq???
He is a worse free throw shooter than Howard. Four rings. One of all time greats. And he also could not win in Orlando because of lack of supporting cast. Also Hakeem got two rings, and Malone got one, so that is three in total. But mostly because Malone had no supporting cast in Houston before being traded to Sixers or he could certainly win more.
Remember, getting Howard is step 1. Assuming we can keep him (I would not trade our team for just one to two months worth of him in ATL), you then can attract other greats to ATL. The exposure and ticket sales and crowds, far out number the negatives of trading away parts that are good, but can never be considered great.
This is worth a risk
teams today face
Kobe, the Celtics…just like Jordan kept good teams from winning rings..tht run is over
next wave of champs…Lebron, Durant, Rose
Howard is not winning a ring unless he is playing with one of these guys,
and if these teams get one more good player its a lock
If Howard comes here the Hawks are no better off if they have to give up two of the stars
Ewing was awesome but he played with avg players…couldn’t win….Karl Malone (not Moses) played with Stock one of the best PG ever no rings…Ostertag, Hornacek, Russell not enough…need 3 to win
Joe can't be apart of that trade...
Josh and Al can be replaced by D12 ALONE, but he needs DYNAMIC wing to play with. He also needs a BRUISER at his side(Zaza). Joe is the only one of our players that gets a double and if you send Joe, who would take the pressure off D12.
I know he wants to play with Josh, but he wants to win more.
Teague
Joe
Marvin
Zaza
D12
That is a title contending team.
Horford and Wiliams plus picks?
We’d probably need a third team involved so Orlando could dump Hedo’s contract
I think the Hawks should do Joe and Al.
If the Hawks trade Josh Smith, that does them no service in trying to get D12 to sign an extension. Keeping Smoove would be the better move to get Howard to stay long-term.
Personally I agree with MC
Horford would have to be in the trade because A) Orlando could market his UF roots and B) he could play center. I think they would ask for both Smith and Horford but Hawks would likely try to keep Smith to help convince Howard to re-sign.
Its fun to talk about but yeah its probably not happening. That said you can’t fault the Hawks for trying which is exactly what they should do. Having Howard here changes everything from a marketing standpoint all the way to the product on the floor.
@Kris_Willis
From an Orlando Magic fan perspective:
1. I really don’t want to trade Dwight
2. But if I have to deal with that reality, I wouldn’t really mind Josh Smith, Al Horford, and Jeff Teague (if Dwight agrees to an extension with the Hawks) for Dwight & Hedo.
3. It’s actually nice to have another team being discussed because I’m effing tired of Nets fans talking about it
If the Magic must trade Dwight to the Lakers, it better be for Gasol & Bynum and 2 picks, and the Lakers better take Duhon & Turkoglu (I'll miss you, Hedo!!!)l.
The Nets are constantly talked about but really they have nothing to offer
Especially with Lopez hurt. That team is terrible.
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Dec 28, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it gets obnoxious when they keep talking like the Magic are crazy jumping on that deal right now
When it would actually be more beneficial to wait until March while they suck it for months and make their first round pick more desirable.
If the Magic must trade Dwight to the Lakers, it better be for Gasol & Bynum and 2 picks, and the Lakers better take Duhon & Turkoglu (I'll miss you, Hedo!!!)l.
"not jumping on that deal" rather
Stupid grammar mistakes.
If the Magic must trade Dwight to the Lakers, it better be for Gasol & Bynum and 2 picks, and the Lakers better take Duhon & Turkoglu (I'll miss you, Hedo!!!)l.
4. Absolutely no Joe Johnson!!!!
I’m tired of justifying crappy contracts as a Magic fan. :)
If the Magic must trade Dwight to the Lakers, it better be for Gasol & Bynum and 2 picks, and the Lakers better take Duhon & Turkoglu (I'll miss you, Hedo!!!)l.
by funny80sguy on Dec 28, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
That would probably be the deal breaker in this
Atlanta would probably be willing to give Johnson, Horford and your pick of anyone not named Jeff Teague or Josh Smith. Again that is just speculation on my part.
@Kris_Willis
Yeah
I’m sure Atlanta would love to get out from under that deal (How freaking sad is that? C’mon, guys. Why sign players to deals you’re trying to escape ONE year later?). So Johnson is going one way in that deal, if he does, that probably means Turk is coming back the opposite direction.
Teague, Turk, Marvin, Horf, Dwight is a solid core. We don’t have any bench pieces at ALL to send back in the deal, of course. Everyone except for Zaza are minimum salary players on one year deals. That could make it tougher to balance things out, both from a salary standpoint and from a team standpoint. I’d hate to send out more picks, too, if we don’t have a reassurance that Dwight will resign here.
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
three players
especially those three wouldn’t be in the trade
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
What if Dwight doesn't sign an extension?
Hypothetically, what if ASG trades for him in their push for a championship this season and Dwight doesn’t sign an extension? Honestly, it can happen. Let’s see the repercussions.
Scenario-
ATL: Dwight Howard (2012: $19.2M w/PO) & Hedo Turkoglu (2012: $11.4M 2013: $12.2M w/PO)
ORL: Joe Johnson (2012: $19.7M) & Josh Smith (2012: $13.2M)
If Dwight doesn’t sign in 2012 it would leave the team with a payroll of $39,369,326 with the following players: Hedo Turkoglu, Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Marvin Williams, and Zaza Pachulia. That leaves the team plenty of cap space to sign a max contract player, a couple of mid level exceptions, and Vet Min players as well. It could possibly mean Deron Williams, or possibly Kevin Love or Russell Westbrook if their team doesn’t sign them to max contract, which they more than likely will.
If he were to sign with us the cap space you can add another $20M a year and we would be at around $59,369,326 with starting SG and basically our entire bench needing an overhaul.
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Dec 28, 2011 1:49 PM EST reply actions
if he doesn't sign..the news conference from Sund will sound like this
Hee Haaww, Heee Haaaww.
he will look like an ass
lmao
sadly this is true
"A ‘No’ uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Jesus
"We were real solid on both ends of the floor today and had positive energy coming from the bench tonight."
Jeff Teague
Trade Marvin, Horford, Hinrich and a 1st rounder for D12
If Marvin keeps playing well this year, we need to trade Marvin, Horford, Hinrich and a 1st rounder for D12. The salaries would match up, and Orlando would get some pretty good talent in return. Furthermore, the Hawks would keep the main players we had from last year because Marvin and Hinrich were not major factors last year. We would essentially be trading Horford straight up for D12. Besides, Marvin would to the easiest player to replace since small forwards are abundant in the NBA. Please tell me what you think…
I'm Atlanta born and Atlanta bred and when I die, I'll be Atlanta dead.
pretty sure we can't trade this year's #1...
since last year’s was dealt to Washington.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 30, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Anderson better come as well for shooting. Though in any case multiple 1st rounders would be necessary.
* Hawks trade {Al Horford + protected 2nd rounder} for {Perimeter F Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut}
* Jeff Teague * Joe Johnson* Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Andrew Bogut *
by PointGuardSlim on Jan 9, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
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