NBA Training Camp 2011: Atlanta Hawks' Invites Include Three Current D-Leaguers

by Kris Willis on Dec 10, 2011 11:01 AM EST

One of the costly things about the NBA lockout was that many of the fringe free agents took guaranteed deals overseas rather than waiting around for the NBA to open the doors back. Over the summer we spotlighted several players but guys like Joe Alexander and David Lighty stand out the most. Atlanta's training camp roster is made up of some pretty recognizable names with the likes of Tracy McGrady, Jerry Stackhouse and Vladimir Ramanovich signing on. However, there is also a heavy D-League influence among the other camp invitees. Interesting enough, Atlanta has two of the top three scorers in the D-League this season in camp.

Charles Garcia 6-10, 230 Sioux Falls

You might have missed it but Garcia has been in or around the Atlanta Hawks before. Atlanta worked him out prior to the 2010 draft and he spent some time with Atlanta's D-League affiliate the Utah Flash last season. Garcia didn't get a lot of opportunities with the Flash as he was mainly signed as an injury replacement. Recognizing the name, I asked then Flash assistant Gene Cross who told me that he had a lot of ability and just needed the time to put it all together. Well Garcia appears to be doing just that as through four games he was tied for second in the D-League in scoring averaging 24.8 points and six rebounds per game. Currently his turnovers are very high and his free throw shooting is not good but he shot 59 percent from the field in those four D-League games.

Donald Sloan 6-3, 205 Erie Bayhawks

Sloan also has a slight parallel to the Hawks given that he was traded by the Hawks D-League affiliate Reno prior to the start of the season to Erie for Blake Ahearn. Sloan is also tied for second in the D-League in scoring at 24.8 points with Garcia. Sloan enters training camp as a point guard which is a position of need for the Hawks. Atlanta is rumored to be looking for a veteran backup to fill in while Kirk Hinrich recovers from off season shoulder surgery but Sloan has an opportunity and could potentially stick with a solid camp.

Zach Graham 6-6, 210 Reno Bighorns

Graham played five games for the Hawks D-League affiliate the Reno Bighorns and averaged 15.6 points and four rebounds per game. Graham is essentially the Bighorns third scoring option but is shooting 53 percent from the field and 87 percent from the line. He has good size for a shooting guard and could be a name to keep an eye on in the future.

Ivan Johnson 6-8, 230

I haven't been able to find out what Johnson has been up to this season but he was a standout in the D-League during the 2010-11 season for the Erie Bayhawks. Johnson averaged 22.6 points and 7.8 rebounds in 49 games last season. He upped those averages to 23.0 and nine in Erie's three playoff contests.

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I'd like it better if one of these guys was a standout rebounder

But perhaps it’s a move in the right direction. Ideally, one of these would make the Hawks’ roster (Donald Sloan, perhaps?) and Keith Benson would be assigned to the D-League. And hopefully we won’t fall in the veteran savvy of Jerry Stackhouse, and sign HIM to the minimum. Pay veteran minimum for a guy of his age…er, experience, that’s not cheap.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 10, 2011 11:47 AM EST reply actions

I'm not too excited about any of the remaining vet min options for PG

So I think I’d like the roster to shake out like this:

Teague/Sloan/(Hinrich-INJ)
Johnson/McGrady/Sy/(Hinrich-INJ)
Williams/McGrady/Sy
Smith/Radmanovic/Rolle
Horford/Pachulia/Collins

Maybe we could also add Garcia, perhaps, but I wish he got more rebounds. Honestly, he might be a better option than Rolle.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST reply actions

it just hit me that larry drew is still our coach

Dammit and what’s this I hear of Gilbert arenas

"A ‘No’ uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi

"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Jesus

"We were real solid on both ends of the floor today and had positive energy coming from the bench tonight."
Jeff Teague

by Throw on Dec 10, 2011 3:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions

Arenas

We would undoubtedly get some media coverage with Gilbert’s antics

by frootbooty on Dec 10, 2011 3:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

I'd love to see him in Phillips

Playing for the Bulls, in the playoffs, jacking up shot after shot.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 10, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions

kind of off topic but

I read LD said we are interested in Arenas if he clears waivers. I would love to see that. I also read he lost 20 lbs

by frootbooty on Dec 10, 2011 3:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions

presumably that's from when they confiscated his hand guns.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 10, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions

rimshot

Looking back on the incident, it was probably good that Arenas was strapped because Javaris evidently wasn’t exactly Mr. Nonviolence.

by Evildallas on Dec 10, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions

Since Chauncey Billups was waived by New York do you think he should be invited to camp?

by Mr. Hawk on Dec 10, 2011 5:17 PM EST reply actions

he has made it clear he wants a contender

I bet Miami signs him

by frootbooty on Dec 10, 2011 5:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Hey, look, another big name player who's going to decide where he plays

David Stern needs to step in and be a dictator again.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 10, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions

I would think he'd head back to Denver.

They’ve lost a lot of players and he didn’t want to leave in the first place.

by Evildallas on Dec 10, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions

Or this

Cleveland waives Baron Davis and winds up under the cap. They put a claim on him to force him to retry so that Gilbert can finally feel like he won one.

by Evildallas on Dec 10, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions

Billups
Wade
James
Battier
Bosh

a bit weak, but should be death offensively

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 11, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, that won't be happening with the Hawks

“I’ve been known as a leader, and I am a leader, but a leader can be as disruptive as he can be productive, especially when you carry a strong voice and people rally around you. This is about me now. This is about me, and teams should know that right now."

The entire article is here. Quite interesting and I agree with his sentiment

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Dec 10, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions

+ 1

"I want my freedom. My goal is to control my own destiny. And as you’ve seen in my career, I’ve never been in a position to do that. I know some teams out there are saying, ‘Oh, Chauncey will be great in mentoring’ and I’m tired of that. I’ve got a few good years left to play, and I’m not trying to come in and sit on the bench, or be a mentor. I’m not going to be that guy. I want to go somewhere and win. I want to choose."

* Andrew Bogut * Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Joe Johnson * Jeff Teague *
* Zaza Pachulia * Keith Benson * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Kirk Hinrich *
inj. reserve: Pape Sy, Jason Collins

Hawks trade {Al Horford} for {PF Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut}

by PointGuardSlim on Dec 11, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions

Dwight Howard wants to be a Net

Guess who the Hawks play 4 times this year, starting with the 1st game

I know where the bodies are buried.....I buried some of them myself. - David Stern

by a hooter's baby on Dec 10, 2011 10:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions

we couldnt beat the nets last season without him

by frootbooty on Dec 11, 2011 12:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

??

did we play the D Will nets? I remember fat Josh launching 3s on Outlaw smh. Outlaw was a terrible signing. Like KD done wrong.

* Andrew Bogut * Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Joe Johnson * Jeff Teague *
* Zaza Pachulia * Keith Benson * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Kirk Hinrich *
inj. reserve: Pape Sy, Jason Collins

Hawks trade {Al Horford} for {PF Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut}

by PointGuardSlim on Dec 11, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions

We beat them once (No D Will)

I don’t think the Hawks played the D Will Nets. He was either not there yet or hurt. Kinda sad that they beat the Hawks w/o him.

I know where the bodies are buried.....I buried some of them myself. - David Stern

by a hooter's baby on Dec 11, 2011 10:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

Still no backup point, and we have no center

Why not bring in a bruiser defensive minded big man?
What happens if Teague get hurt?

As composed, this team has no chance of going anywhere. Are we going to play JJ at point when Teague is taken out? Or Pape Sy? Or Marvin? Or may be Tracy McGrady?

by ATLpaul on Dec 11, 2011 6:50 AM EST reply actions

Bet they are leaning to T-Mac. My question is if that is the thought process, can he last until Kirk returns

by xavip on Dec 11, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions

Sy and Mac can be good backups but scoring is lacking and they're going to be playing from behind A LOT. Hawks are tax strapped and need to trade I dont think the small ball will work anymore. Horford and Smith are sick of it.

The contenders dont do it anymore. Time to pick Horford or Smith for a center. And no Vladmir Mentally Disabled Cadet with tweener defense is not the answer.

* Andrew Bogut * Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Joe Johnson * Jeff Teague *
* Zaza Pachulia * Keith Benson * Tracy McGrady * Marvin Williams * Kirk Hinrich *
inj. reserve: Pape Sy, Jason Collins

Hawks trade {Al Horford} for {PF Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut}

by PointGuardSlim on Dec 11, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions

overreact lately?

go to hawks.com and check out the training camp vids and pics

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Dec 11, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions

Overreact?

Let’s see if memory serves, 2 years ago, we were courting Big Z when they Cavs already had Shaq. He did not come on board with the Hawks though. Remember that little episode? Ferry went met him and he stayed with Cavs. I think we also had Joe Smith.

Last year we courted Shaq for a little period. Then when Cavs wanted Marvin we shied away. Shaq went to play for Cs. In hindsight not getting Shaq was the right move(I was wrong wanting him, but I am pretty desperate for a seven footer), but the point is that we were looking for a center even last year. Instead we stayed with Jason Collins and Etan Thomas.

This year, we have Jason, and Zaza. Clearly Jason is limited. Zaza is a good serviceable center as backup, but to throw him at likes of Noah, Bogat, Lopez, … is asking for trouble.

At Hawks.com, I see we have Angel Hair for center, named Bensen. On second thought, I am now getting depressed. Thankfully the other birds won, so I am in good mood :) But the other birds are sure a strange breed.

by ATLpaul on Dec 11, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions

let's see what the young guys do before all is lost

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Dec 12, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions

I think we have a center

He may or may not have been to an all star game as a center. Additionally, if I recall, we have a back-up who isn’t all that bad.

I hope I’m not confusing the Hawks with some other team, though.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 11, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions

Who are you talking about?

ZaZa? That is a backup center. A good serviceable backup center. That is no starting center in NBA.

Who is the backup? Jason Collins? Surely you are not saying Jason Collins is a serviceable every day center. He has its uses when we go against centers where bulk is needed, but nothing else (rebounding is non existent).

And please, don’t tell me Lion is a center. Even he keeps saying don’t play me at center.

As the series vs. Chicago clearly showed, Hawks are in desperate need of bulk and length at center position. But clearly Chicago is not the only team they are outranked in East with better centers.

It is this line of thinking that for three years has limited the Hawks

by ATLpaul on Dec 11, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions

Except, ya know

For the fact that he’s played center for years and that it’s worked. It gives up match-up advantages against most teams, and when we needed help against Dwight, Jason Collins stepped up for us.

So I don’t know what the big complaint is. He needs to develop his post offense. He did have a really bad series in the playoffs, but he was really strong in the playoffs the previous season. So it might be an anomaly.

The playoff series. What happened?

Game 2, we lost because of Luol Deng, more than anything else. Derrick Rose scored a lot, but he took a TON of shots and we handled him pretty well. Deng was crashing the boards and playing great D. Of course, every one on the Bulls was crashing the boards-the only Hawk who even tried to rebound WAS Horford (14, no one else in double digits).

Game 3, we lost because Derrick Rose couldn’t miss in the first half. Seriously. He could have put on a blindfold and thrown shots in. I don’t know what else we could have done. Hawks seemed to give up in the second half, which is a sin in the playoffs, but it’s not like we’re going to be able to change the entire dynamic of the team with one move.

Game 4, we won, Horf and Josh both played great.

Game 5, we had that ridiculous fourth quarter collapse. Teague had been AWESOME that game, but he only took on shot in the fourth quarter, and that was with like 11 minutes left in teh game. He barely touched the ball after that. Jamal was throwing up bricks. Actually, Jamal was a disaster in that fourth quarter-I remember BEGGING for him to be benched and for Zaza to come back in. It didn’t happen. He wasn’t playing defense, he was missing every damn thing. Some poor officiating mixed in it, of course-that was our game to take, and we handed it away with Larry Drew’s stupid substitutions. Jamal played the entire 4th quarter, and didn’t score, thereby making his floortime useless. I don’t think the lack of a legitimate center cost us. Zaza Pachulia fueled a huge comeback for us that game, hit 5-6 FGs, 3-4 FTs, and brought a ton of energy. Then he didn’t play in the fourth quarter. So we HAD a useful big, and failed to utilize him.

Game 6, Hawks just wanted the series over, I guess? Teague got hurt, Jamal played like crap, Horford played like crap, Marv didn’t start and played like crap, JJ scored 19 DESPITE playing like crap…it was a game we were going to lose regardless of who played center. Actually, Horf didn’t really play center in that game, anyway-it was Collins, Zaza, and Hilton Armstrong getting a lot of minutes at the C position. And Zaza was the only one to do anything useful, with 13 rebounds.

So, I’m not sure having someone like, I dunno, Javale McGee instead of Zaza Pachulia would have made much difference in that series. Zaza played really well, Horford played decent, except for a crappy last game when he didn’t play center. If it was McGee instead of Jamal Crawford, and we could have had ALL of Crawford’s minutes played by someone else, then perhaps we do beat the Bulls. But that’s more a coaching thing than a personnel thing, really-coaches who fall in love with crappy players can fall in love with other crappy players.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 12, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions

+1

@Kris_Willis

by Kris Willis on Dec 12, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions

The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

You arguments, are truths(The Good), half-truths (The bad) and untruths(The ugly).

The Good:
“For the fact that he’s played center for years and that it’s worked. "
Yes he has played center because we have no others. And yes he used to fight inside. I loved that. Did what he had to do. Until his jumper became sweeter and sweeter and he started going outside and outside. So if you want to base your argument on how he used to play, you have a point. Otherwise, based on recent trends, you must be concerned. No offensive rebounding. And he does not intimidate inside. You want a center to defend the basket. I think your argument is mostly based on offensive numbers (good field goal percentage) and times before his jumper became sweet.

The bad: “It gives us advantages against other teams?”
Now that is a suspect statement. Advantages against whom specifically? You are being generic and vague. Give me examples. Against Javale McGee? You got to be kidding. Against Stoudemire and Chandler? No way. Against Muscleman, let’s not even go there ok? You even say he gets Collins to come in and help which is half agreeing with me vs. Orlando. Against Bogat? Nope. Noah? No. Lopez? Nope. Who are you comparing him against? Kwame Brown? You got a point. The curly hair Brazilian in Cleveland? You got a point. But you know what, against playoff teams he is going to have issues. That does not make all the others I mentioned better in totality, but center skill vs. center skill, most of others I mention are better.

The Ugly: " Horford played decent, except for a crappy last game when he didn’t play center"
Did you not say earlier against Orlando that Jason Collins played center (which is correct) So if Al can not also play against Chicago, when exactly can Lion play center if not vs. Chicago and not vs. Orlando???

I am confused, because you are not making sense You are defending a lost proposition. Against Chicago our best center was a mobile Zaza.

Yes Javale would have done much better than Al vs. Chicago. There is no comparison. Now don’t take that to mean Javalle is a better player than Lion. he is not. Javalle is just a center, as is Turiaf. They are not better players. There is a distinction.

More untruths about your argument:
Your recollection of the Chicago series is incorrect and untrue.
Game 4, we only won because of Smoove.
Want truth look at box score and link below
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310508001

Josh was the star. Lion was the recepient. More truth about game 4:
http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=310508001

Game 3:
Horford again missing in action. Smoove fought, but made silly move like throwing jumper out. Still he fought.
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310506001

More truth: who was the guy trying to fight Boozer? Who was the guy throwing his headband to the side mad? Smoove. Who was the guy fighting inside? Zaza. Where was Lion? Out in the bushes around the periphery where he was taking jumpers.

Now join me, ask Sund and ASG to get us a center, we need to support the Lion

by ATLpaul on Dec 12, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions

Health played at least a small factor in Horford's ineffectiveness agains tthe Bulls

Putting that aside for a minute, you’re really not watching much Hawks’ basketball if you haven’t seen Horford matched up against guys like Noah, Bogut, and Brook Lopez, and outplaying them in generally every aspect. He can do it, he HAS done it, and he generally continues to do it.

Is he Dwight Howard? No.
Is he Shaq in his prime? No.

He’s better than having a Shaq right now. In fact, even if we did something like trade Marvin Williams for, I don’t know, Spencer Hawes or Brendan Haywood or something, we would still be best served by playing Horford at center than giving minutes to the kind of lower-tier center we could acquire. Horford doesn’t like it, but he plays the position because it’s best for the team. It will continue to be so unless we luck out and find the next Shawn Kemp-that is, a guy who becomes a plus center outside of the top 10 picks.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 12, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions

If you are referencing the fall because of Blake's UFC move, I thought he had recovered

At some point he is going to be disheartened.
He keeps asking for helps, and he keeps being ignored.
Just like the treatment you are giving him. He scores, and he plays well, so he must be doing good as a center. That is your logic. The same logic that prevents Hawks from changing to improve, for years, while everyone around us changes, even if the change is not good as in case of Orlando. At least they roll the dice.

A center’s role is to stop others from coming inside and attacking, how do you put a value on that?

Al Horford is not the center Lopez or Bogat or Noah are. Those are much better defensive presences. In the case of Lopez and Bogat they score inside on good moves too, something Lion simply lacks.

In case of Noah, he is not really expected to score. Much more of a defensive player, which is all Al needs. Someone that takes away the burden of fighting players that are bigger and taller away from him.

To say Al Horford is a better center now than a Branden Haywood is simply a joke. Note I am not saying he is not a better player, just not a better center. Comparing him to Shaq, depends what year Shaq we are talking. I agree that last 2 years of Shaq he was a shadow of himself. Again point is not to replace Lion, it is to augment him and help him.

We need a frontline of Smoove, Lion and a big man. They both have said as much, saying the big lineup helps. Why do you disagree with what they have asked for? They want the help. Give them the help.

I feel like I am repeating myself, and people like you don’t see the big picture. Or people talk about the ownership is not willing to go into luxury. I is crazy tlak. I is like ok we pay someone 3-4 M to go into luxury, but have a chance to go to ECF. How much more is that worth? Or how about the fact ASG does not have the burden of carrying Thrashers any longer? OR the fact they got some money from that sales. All of those things are forgotten.

And we just parrot what ASG says. I promise I stop now.

by ATLpaul on Dec 12, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions