Atlanta Hawks Roster Breakdown, Amnesty Clause And More
by Kris Willis on Nov 27, 2011 9:20 AM EST
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Now that the NBA Lockout has finally ended we should turn our attention to the on court product. The Atlanta Hawks have some work to do with roughly $65 million committed to just seven players for the upcoming season. The salary cap figure for the 2011-12 season is expected to be the same as last year at $58 million with the luxury tax threshold at right around $70 million. Assuming there aren't any surprises in the way that the league prorates contracts for this season, the Hawks will have roughly $5 million dollars to use to add six players just to get to the league minimum of 13 without going into luxury tax territory which we will talk about in a moment.
Here is a look at the Hawks players under guaranteed contracts for this season:
- Joe Johnson - $18,038,573
- Josh Smith - $12,500,000
- Al Horford - $12,000,000
- Kirk Hinrich - $8,100,000
- Marvin Williams - $8,050,000
- Zaza Pachulia - $4,750,000
- Jeff Teague - $1, 579,920
Atlanta also has two players that are signed to non-guaranteed deals. Picking up the options on those would bring the roster total to nine and the salary figure to right around $66.5 million.
- Magnum Rolle - $788,872
- Pape Sy - $788,872
- Keith Benson
- Jason Collins - Free Agent
- Damien Wilkins - Free Agent
Luxury Tax
Luxury tax rates: The same dollar-for-dollar as in the previous CBA for the first two years. Starting in Year 3, the rates increase to $1.50 for the first $5 million over; $1.75 for $5-$10 million over; $2.50 for $10-$15 million over; $3.25 for $15-$25 million over; and an additional 50 cents for each additional $5 million (same as previous proposal).
Amnesty
Many reports indicate that the much discussed Amnesty clause will be a part of the new CBA and will be able to be used at anytime throughout the deal. That would give the Hawks 6-10 seasons to use it depending on whether or not either side opts out of the CBE early. The Hawks could very well decide to amnesty a player like Marvin Williamsto give them some relief in their above salary cap situation but given their uncertain financial situation they may choose to hold onto the amnesty for now. Remember that the amnesty clause eliminates a contract from the salary cap figure but the player is still paid the full amount of the contract. I haven't seen anything that suggests that the Hawks are in a position to pay a player to go play for another team.
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Good stuff
In between Marvin and Kirk, one of those guys won’t make the final roster. I assume the hawks do exactly what you say and no new players will be added to the roster. The ASG is back in effect for another year….here we go
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
You think they make a trade? Or do you think they amnesty
One thing that hasn’t been talked about in quite a while is the possibility of a trade. Josh Smith? Kirk Hinrich’s expiring deal will be valuable, potentially really valuable at the trade deadline
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Nov 27, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
A trade of Smooth would be intriguing
but what’s the return?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 27, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Really have no idea
I would think it would have to bring back probably several less talented pieces along with some salary relief ideally. As far as names go I am at a loss.
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Nov 27, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
With salary relief in mind, would we package him with Marvin
and try to bring back either a big time SF (Rudy Gay, off the top of my head without looking at him or any others) or a good young C + other pieces.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 27, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Might be interesting
Given that the ASG is back in charge though, I am not really expecting anything bold from this abbreviated offseason. Perhaps they do something at the trade deadline but until I see otherwise I am expecting the status quo.
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Nov 27, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I would love if we got rudy gay
M-V-TEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Upon hearing that the nfl lockout was over, I faced in the general direction of Seattle and gave them the finger. GO RAMS
Follow me at @Th3_Prophet
MEM is unfortunately not suitors for Josh Smith or Marvin Williams. Rudy Gay is close to equal value and they would not trade for equal value esp after their playoff run.
Franchises want to be competitive. Realistically competing franchises know Hawks best players are 1) Horford 2) Smith, need shooting, and are “undersized”. and Smith and Horford arent really go to all around scorers and no team is going to bend over and give the Hawks what they want.
They’ll wait the Hawks contracts out rather than help ATL improve. Or like Mr. Willis was inferring rip the Hawks off talent wise so the Hawks can rebuild or try to attract free agents (with more $$ but a less talented team).
Not a lot of centers Josh Smith trade is not bringing in a biger big man because not a lot of centers to go around. Smith has been shopped for centers but teams need them just like we want them to match up with the Lakers and Bulls etc.
Hawks trade {Al Horford} for {PF Jon Leuer and C Andrew Bogut}
* Andrew Bogut * Jon Leuer * Josh Smith * Joe Johnson * Jeff Teague *
* Zaza Pachulia * Keith Benson * Malcolm Thomas * Marvin Williams * Kirk Hinrich *
inj. reserve: Pape Sy, Jason Collins
by PointGuardSlim on Nov 27, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
i honestly think they will use the amnesty early....
they’ve already had trading blunders and another one would surely negate all the work they did to get it.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Letting go Williams is a logical move
That’s unfortunate because I was always pullinh for the guy. Coming out of UNC, the guy looked so talented—simlar to a young James Worthy; however, he never really found his niche on the team. For a player his size, he was never a great rebounder, nor was he quick enough to play opposing small forwards. Hopefully they can trade him and get some much needed size in return. A center would be great for the Hawks—one that can move Al horford to his more comfortable power forward spot. What do you think?
by Jeffrey Thompson on Nov 27, 2011 11:32 AM EST reply actions
I agree a center would be ideal
But (A) is the Atlanta Spirit willing to go into the luxury tax (B) who is reasonably available that could be acquired?
I am still not sold that the Hawks use the Amnesty right away. If it is available for the life of the CBE then it could be much more valuable down the road. Also remember it requires them to still play any player waived under amnesty. That means they would be paying at least 14 players. The minimum 13 on the active roster plus whoever they amnesty that will likely be playing for another team.
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Nov 27, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Amnesty Clause...
I’m not sure if the ASG is going to use the amnesty clause now or wait. I say that because they don’t have a player like a Rashard Lewis or a Agent Zero who has a huge contract and is a Non-All Star. A lot of people will say cancel the Joe Johnson contract, but the Hawks are not going to pay all that money for another team’s SG. Trade him… who knows. Amnesty… no way.
Marvin William is a popular choice, since it looks like he has reached his ceiling with this Hawks team, however unless they clause says that they need to use it right away they may keep it until a favorable Free Agent hits the market. I think as of now the Hawks #1 priority is a legit center. One that can 1) play in the post, 2) rebound and 3) play defense. If they cant find that this offseason, I think the Hawks will save that amnesty clause for a future season.
As for the rest of the roster, I think the ASG is more likely to trade those players if they didn’t want them, rather than use the clause for them.
If they are still trying to sell,...
waiting so that a new owner can use it adds a little value.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 27, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
And with the labor situation settled
and a more “competitive” market, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are sold soon.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 27, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
If I'm Atlanta, I'm hanging on to the amnesty option until the end of the season.
With Jamal probably gone, this is his last chance to prove his worth and this is a great opportunity to see what Marvin can do. I’m not sure how healthy he was last season, but he did have back surgery this off season, so I’m hoping he plays better with a more defined role on the team. I envision (or wish rather) our starting line up would be Teague, JJ, Smoove, Al, and Zaza. Using Marvin and Kirk as our major players off the bench. That way if Marvin plays like he did 07-08, the Hawks will have a chance to trade Marvin for something & clear cap space (plus we will have Kirk’s cap space also) and move on. If he fails, then use amnesty to release him.
But let’s say Marvin reverts back to the 07 or 08 Marvin and we are able to trade him away, can we amnesty JJ and go after Dwight if he doesn’t do a sign and trade during the season? Crazy I know, but it’s an option worth exploring. Maybe 41 games of sold out Phillips might offset the income paid to JJ. Mix in a trade for Horford or Smoove who knows?
Do you really think they would start Zaza?
I haven’t seen anything from Drew to suggest that Zaza would start ever. I think we see Hinrich, JJ, Marvin, Josh, and Al although I think it makes more sense to bring Hinrich off the bench and start Teague because he can play both guard spots.
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Nov 27, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don't necessarily think so, except with so many games in a small time frame, I woul expect Zaza to get more minutes.
So he may not start, but that may be lineup we more of. And maybe with the success the team had w/ Collins at the 5, that might sway Drew to lean that way.
Ugh
A new CBA means I’ll be stuck learning the complicated cap rules that the NBA uses once again.
Two pressing questions are this:
1) Are there still Mid-Level-Exemptions and Low-level-exemptions to sign guys over the cap, and do they still count against the luxury?
2) Are you able to sign league minimum players without it counting against the luxury tax?
I’ll have to find out the answers to these questions. For now, I’ll just assume the answers are the same as they were last season, since it seems they’re just using last year’s cap rules for now, at least.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I think the number of years and salary has gone down
Although I admit I haven’t researched that aspect too deeply yet
@Kris_Willis
I think all signs are pointing to a big time trade
I think something we have forgotten about all the assets Atlanta has:
- Josh Smith (Trade Bait)
- Marvin Williams (Trade Bait)
- Kirk Hinrich ( Expiring Contract)
- Josh Childress Trade Exception (Valued at $2.5 Million)
That could all signify a valuable trade acquisition. I mean this same ownership did obtain Joe Johnson from the Suns for (a) Two 1st Round Picks and (b) a $4.6 Million Trade Exception. It can be done.
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Nov 27, 2011 12:33 PM EST reply actions
Its great to be able to talk about somehting again on this site
M-V-TEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Upon hearing that the nfl lockout was over, I faced in the general direction of Seattle and gave them the finger. GO RAMS
Follow me at @Th3_Prophet
besides the court cases and lawyer talk...
I’m glad to be so wrong on my opinion that a) there’d be no NBA until 2012, and that b) decert meant the season was dead. Looks like decert may have been a great move after all. Perhaps the league didn’t want to risk opening their books in discovery.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
There is so much about the process that just doesn't make sense
I didn’t think we would see anything until January either if at all. I still believe that the key was getting both sides back to the negotiation table and it took an outside party like Jim Quinn to get that done.
The reality was they were close many times but neither side would make that final concession to get the deal done. Finally the owners did. Whether it was decert or just finally coming to the realization that there wasn’t going to be a season who knows.
@Kris_Willis
I agree on the Quinn
be it him, or whoever else finally got things settled so a deal could happen, it took far too long to get that dealmaker in the room with everyone else.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I don't think the amnesty clause will be used like people think...
Take Brandon Roy for example. If Portland used it on him, they would be paying out 68 million dollars to a player that plays for another team (over the life of the contract). Sounds smart if they use the cap space to sign Dwight Howard or CP3. If GM’s don’t see the clause putting them in the title hunt, I don’t see it being used until the last year or so.
Another caveat,
If that team is already over the cap then the move won’t clear up as much cap space as they think.
For example, the Hawks are at roughly $66 million which is about $8 million over the cap. If they amnesty Johnson’s $18 million number for this year they would go from $66 million in salary to 48 million but they could only sign a player for about $10 million and not $18 million. Plus they would still owe Johnson money depending on who he ended up playing for.
A common misconception about Johnson’s contract was the thinking that they could have given a $100 million dollar contract to someone else. They couldn’t because they didn’t have the cap space. Only could give it to Johnson because they held his Bird rights.
@Kris_Willis
by Kris Willis on Nov 27, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
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