Real Games Lost #1, Atlanta Hawks Vs. Minnesota Timberwolves
by Kris Willis on Nov 2, 2011 7:32 AM EDT
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Under normal circumstances, we would be preparing for the opening of the Atlanta Hawks 2011-12 season tonight in Minnesota. Instead, we are left to think about what might have been and speculate about what will happen once this lockout is over.
The lost summer of the NBA offseason has left teams like Atlanta will many unanswered questions that they will have to answer in an abbreviated sprint once the lockout is finally settled. Questions like who will fill out the roster for the team? What about Jamal Crawford? If you count Magnum Rolle and Pape Sy, the Hawks have nine players under contract for this season which is four shy of the league minimum of 13. Atlanta is expected to try and bring back Jason Collins and Keith Benson is also a candidate but who fills out the remaining spots is a question that we really have no idea how to begin answering.
Another question is who will be in the starting lineup for the team once the season does begin? Joe Johnson, Josh Smith and Al Horford are locks but does Larry Drew once again opt for a big lineup or does Marvin Williams take his customary role at the small forward position?
I feel that the biggest story line for the Hawks coming into this season should have centered on Jeff Teague and his performance against the Chicago Bulls in the playoffs. Given past circumstances, did Teague do enough in that playoff series to secure the starting point guard position for the Hawks? Does Kirk Hinrich come off the bench and how often does Larry Drew play Teague and Hinrich together with Joe Johnson sliding to the small forward position?
All questions that would have been answered at least in part tonight against the Timberwolves. Which brings us to the games themselves. What would have happened in tonight's game we will never know although some have taken it upon themselves to speculate. Personally I think Jeff Teague would have made Ricky Rubio wish he was still in Spain assuming that the Spaniard would have even gotten off the bench for Rick Adelman. Thus is the reality of the hand we have been dealt by the NBA Lockout. Nothing will settled on the court, all we can do is just speculate.
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103-88 Hawks
Imaginary final score
-Josh Smith: 23 points, 12 rebs, 7 asst since Beasley nor Love would play a lick of defense
-JJ: 28 points
-Horf: 18 points, 11 rebs
-Jeff Teague: Continues momentum from playoffs, 15 points, 8 asst, 1 turnover
…If only if only…
"We did a lot of good things last year, and now we've got Julio ... That does nothing but improve the offense, and we expect to do better. That's our goal, to lead the NFL in everything. Every offensive category." -Roddy White
How about the Spanish point guard and the number 2 draft pick?
To me Ricky Rubio is a an interesting question mark we know nothing about.
and the rookie of the year candidate Derrik Williams (IMO should have been number 1 draft pick) makes Timberwovles this year’s Clippers. A team really worth watching and a very tricky first game.
I do LOVE Beasely though. Who knows may be we can have him one day.
Beasley is too much of a knucklehead for me to ever want him on my team
All world talent but I am not sure that you could ever actually trust him
@Kris_Willis
We need someone to take pressure off JJ
With Jamal gone, we need a dependable scorer. Yes Beasley is a knucklehead, but he loves the game (see he is going around the country and the world wanting to play). And in my heart of heart I believe he is a good guy.
Listen i know of his problems with Marijuana, but kids do that these days, and they have to be corrected not punished. That does not make him a real head case like a Isiah Rider.
So net net, i would kill to have him on the Hawks. It may be possible, it just depends what Timberwolves think of Derrik Williams (is he a PF to them or a SF?). But we need a scorer and we simply lack anyone outside JJ with Jamal gone.
I agree on the scoring need
I am just skeptical to take on a scoring player that has never really played on a good team. Beasley is an all world talent but there is a lot of risk there. Remember the Heat essentially gave this guy away for nothing. There is a lot more to that story in my opinion.
@Kris_Willis
True they did give him up
But lets remember Heat took on the best player in the world at that same position. So realistically, a talented player like Beasley could not get any more minutes on that court.
We have to take risks and use this time. If we can not get decent center, we have to at least improve the SF position. I have simply given up on Marvin ever being the answer. It is time to go after a great SF
I am all for grabbing a starting caliber small forward
but two things. The Hawks are upside down on the Marvin contract and if you are going to take risks players like Beasley and Rider, etc have more of a history of not panning out.
@Kris_Willis
well i was'nt putting Beasley in saem category as Rider
Any way, it is probably wishful thinking.
Can we have like a post per game lost and analyse the teams we were to play to see if their players can help us or not?
We really need to start thinking who can help us
I am actually planning such a thing until a new schedule is released
Should be able to take an interesting look around the league that way.
@Kris_Willis
Beasley would be worse defending SFs than Josh
or Al, or Teague. He’s just not a quick defender. He has a lot of offensive skills, but while Rider might be a bit harsh, I don’t think he’ll ever pan out. He’s still young, and has time, but the red flags have been around for a long, long time. And there are plenty of red flags, not just that one green flag.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Yes agree on defensive liabilities
But I am concerned about our scoring. How are we going to score with Jamal gone? Who is going to be the creator in half court outside JJ? And we all know what happens when JJ gets doubled.
Well if not him, I be happy with T-Prince also.
But Beasley doesn't create points
he’s iso dependant in game, and duplicative of Joe in that regard. He doesn’t help create points. We need a creator more than a scorer. As Beasley’s not a catch and shoot guy, doesn’t pass well, and doesn’t dominate the post with moves galore for points in the paint. We need a scorer who can help make others better, and Beasley isn’t that. He’s Joe, but a lot worse.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
iso dependent
sorry just had a thought of beasley joe and jamal on the floor at the same time
M-V-TEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Upon hearing that the nfl lockout was over, I faced in the general direction of Seattle and gave them the finger. GO RAMS
Follow me at @Th3_Prophet
This is too funny
He had a 20 point scoring average last year, while he and Kevin Love are the only two threats on the team. How would you say he scores if he is not a scorer, when the other teams can focus totally on him and Kevin Love?
If you watched the games last year, we had Smoove our best defender defending him.
Back in Miami, year 2, he struggled with off-court issues and finding a role. The sky is the limit for him.
You assessment of him could not be more wrong. It is just funny.
Here are his career stats
http://www.nba.com/home/playerfile/michael_beasley/career_stats.html
ps – he has one of the smooothest shots you are every likely to see, God given talent
And you clearly failed to read
did I say he’s not a scorer? No, I say we “need a creator more than a scorer”, and don’t say he can’t shoot, but that he’s not a “catch and shoot guy”, which would be similar to Joe, in that he needs the ball for a few seconds before he hits shots instead of quickly off a pass from say Teague after he drives and kicks out, or Al after they collapse on him in the post.
And if you haven’t noticed, on NBA teams that lack ability, guys like him are routinely 20+ pt per game scorers. Then we they had to teams where they are more than the only option, they struggle severely. See Ricky Davis, among several others.
I’ve actually met the kid, and been watching him play for years. My first “assesment” of him was several years back, and has been proven true every step along the way (praising his complete offensive skill level, but questioning his foot speed,floor vision, maturity, consistency, and willingness to work). You got anything more than raw numbers?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
More than raw numbers?
So you don’t believe full season statistics playing for one of the worst teams in the league??? with just one other really good player on that team.
No, other than his college career (a great career) and general shinning in the hodge-podge leagues this year. What I have seen of him, is shooting is not a problem at all. He can shoot quick or he can create.
But again I gave you his stats and you are still disagreeing, so point to debate
You gave stats
that didn’t dispute anything I said. Again, find where I say he isn’t skilled offensively, and can’t score points? You won’t, because I never said it. If you are going to “debate”, at least responding to my points instead of twisting them in to something they aren’t.
If you want a bigger, thicker Ricky Davis, that’s all you.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
In all honesty
I would like to see the offense go more through Jeff Teague than Michael Beasley. With him on the floor that mean less touches for Horford, Teague, Hinrich, and Josh Smith (which might be a good/bad thing). I would like to see all them evolve more than Beasley. That’s what would happen. With him on the court our already porous defense would be horsesh*t compared to what it is now. This guy played for Minnesota of all teams so his defensive inefficiency was masked by… well… the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Beasley is not a SF and never will be (successfully) because he is just too slow. It goes beyond the statistics because he did post decent to average numbers on defense but what the stats don’t show you is losing touch with his man; not knowing whether to switch, to stay, or to show-and-recover; aimlessly wandering in no-man’s land; getting faked off his feet by guards near the bonus-arc; and not even thinking of boxing out in the battle of the boards… He can’t switch correctly and that poses great problems for us. He plays when he wants to and with that kind of attitude I’d rather have Marvin Williams then see him.
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Nov 2, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeff is a great difference maker
No question.
But we do need production from SF position. Which is why i think we should start Captain Kirk at SG, and JJ at SF.
Now if we have a scoring SF (Beasely is hypothetical because he is under contract and we have no means of getting him), he could compensate for losing Jamal, and giving us some production at SF position.
No he is not a defensive stopper, but we really need a seven footer for that, not a SF. The SF position in NBA and the SG positions, are the positions that score the most. That is what Beasely brings to table.
Now SFs that are available T-prince, Battier, Grant Hill (old), Caron Butler (risky) are better on D. Of those I like T-prince the best because of slashing and scoring and D. But still none of those will compensate for loss of Jamal.
To get someone you have to take on some risk and flaws, it is difficult to find a Rudy Gay without giving up something of value.
I think we should focus on SG personally
JJ has SF size and thickness, and it fits as he gets older and loses foot speed to take him to the position where quickness is less necessary.
I’d love Battier as a solid offensive player, who provides great D at SF and PF. Prince could fit but he’s too old and brittle to be more than a role player.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
The starting lineup should include both Captain Kirk and Teague
With Lion at center, Smoove at PF, JJ at SF.
Until the day we can find a real seven footer with a pulse, except for games against muscleman, and some other really big teams like Lakers, where I bring in Jason Collins. I would like to go with the more mobile team.
Loss of Jamal hurts, so we need firepower off the bench and Marvin is the logical player to come off the bench, with outside shooting and size.
Big question is can we get a small forward and a big body in addition to keeping Marvin? Or do we put Marvin in Amnesty and fill his spot with a SF and an able bodied center. If so, here are some options to consider:
To me there are some forwards Hawks can go after such as Grant Hill, Shane Battier, Caron Butler(risky because of injury), or my own personal favorite, T-Prince.
Then we need a big man. Personally I go after one of the Dallas centers, but they are probably out of reach and expensive. I also love DeAndre Jordan, but again out of reach and expensive. So then I look at next centers available, Dalembert, Jeff Foster, Kurt Thomas and Nazr Mohamed. Any of them would be an upgrade to our existing center situation. I probably still won’t change our starting lineup, but at least then we have depth for big man and forward positions. And there is the risky one, Glen Davis. Celtics are down on him, but he has the beef to play center, if not the height, can be had for cheap, and if he is psychologically boosted, he may be helpful
If the Hawks go with Teague and Hinrich in the starting lineup
then they are going to have to bring in more guard depth. Interesting possibility if they were to resign Jamal but I don’t see it as a full time option just yet.
@Kris_Willis
I'd rather have Kirk come off the bench
since bench depth has been a main issue for many years. Marvin and Kirk can come off the bench and Damien and (Rolle or draft pick or FA center) can start with the other guys. We’ve never had bench balance because we always figured that when we aquire guys they can’t start because they’re not better than the starters. Most of the time that hasn’t been true or we haven’t seen enough of them to make a judgement. I’d say a change in the starting lineup has to change once games start; Marvin, Kirk, and maybe Josh will have to earn their positions.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
agree with kirk off the bench
atleast with this we still have the joe johnson size advantage that he gives in the 2 spot
M-V-TEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Upon hearing that the nfl lockout was over, I faced in the general direction of Seattle and gave them the finger. GO RAMS
Follow me at @Th3_Prophet
Well i think we have a problem in SF position if we don't find someone to replace Marvin
We need some production. If we start Damien scoring will be very limited. Who is going to score when they double JJ? We have to the depend on Teague. Lion and Damien won’t be able to make their own shots. And Smoove takes bad shots.
I just think we need the outside threat of Captain Kirk to keep teams from doubling on JJ. Captain Kirk and Teague together, can compensate for lack of a true SF.
Now we are going to hurt on rebounding front. We are just too small. Which is why we should be looking for help on the center front.
Damien doesn't have to score
because his defense makes up for that. Make no mistake, he’s no Mario West, but he’s proven he could score. Besides Marvin hasn’t proven he’s consistent at scoring or playing defense. Like I said you need balance from starters to the bench. You don’t put all your eggs in the basket like we’ve been doing and expect fresh players for the playoffs. This is why Jamal came off the bench, sort of, even though he played starter minutes
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Except I don't think Lion or Smoove can create their own shots
Whereas, i was pleasently surprised at Captain Kirk ability to get his own shot, and of-course our last best hope, Teague, are the ones that can do that.
I also think Marvin can create his own shot, but only once every 10 games, when he wants, that is so sad
In a perfect situation, I would hope that our offense can produce open shots
Perhaps Teague is the key to this whether it be off of his penetration or of pick and roll/pick and pop situations. Granted with a 24 second clock there is going to be plenty of one on one play but the reality is at the end of the clock the ball is going to be in Joe’s hands most of the time.
@Kris_Willis
i miss the duffman kevin love comments
but this will do
M-V-TEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Upon hearing that the nfl lockout was over, I faced in the general direction of Seattle and gave them the finger. GO RAMS
Follow me at @Th3_Prophet
THE CAPS LOCK GUY
and i miss truthspitter and his meltdown when the hawks passed on whitehead or whatever his name was
M-V-TEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Upon hearing that the nfl lockout was over, I faced in the general direction of Seattle and gave them the finger. GO RAMS
Follow me at @Th3_Prophet
This makes me too sad.
Don’t think I can participate. : (
Almost afraid to ask but . . .
How did the imaginary Marvin Williams do?
As for the creator discussion, shouldn’t that be Jeff Teague? I mean if Joe can remember how to play without dominating the ball, so that he doesn’t disappear when Teague is running the show. If that can happen then we still need a creator to come off the bench. JR Smith (if he returns from China) or Nick Young seem like possible substitutes for Crawford in that capacity. Too bad Marvin couldn’t take coming off the bench like a man and relish the role with more offensive responsibilities. 8M a year for the 5th option in the starting lineup that’s not a true defensive stopper is a luxury that we can’t afford.
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