What the hell, haters?
by thirdfALCON on Aug 9, 2010 12:18 AM EDT
Email
PrintSo we didn't get any new players, who cares? There are many ways that our team could be better next year.
First of all it's hilarious to see so many people, that were confident about Mike Woodson's incompetence, to the point that they thought that anyone who thought he was a good coach was a fool, now see no reason to think that a new scheme from a guy that would know better than anyone the problems with Woodson's tactics could possibly bring further improvement.
What happened to all the armchair point guards that were clamoring for Woodson's head? Did you need someone to bitch about, and used Woodson as a convenient whipping boy? Did you even beleive what you were saying then? I want to think the best of you guys, but you all look like hypocrites right now.
Meanwhile the Hawks are currently on a streak where they have been gotten better every year, and they could just as easily be better next year.
Case in point; Marvin Williams.
He was our biggest underachiever last year mostly because he was so passive. But keep in mind he was having no plays run for him in a system that was heavy on isolations. Also remember that Marvin was in the first year of his new contract when players have historically had down years.
If Marvin could get close to his previous season's contribution that would be a huge boon for us. It would not only give us another threat, but would lighten the load, and the coverage on everybody else.
But our biggest issue was rebounding. and it seems like the organization knows it as we have been looking for centers. Not that they are likely to find anyone good, but there's something about that Drew can do that your pariah, Woodson refused to do, play Al and Zaza together.
Then we have Jeff Teague who, with development, could potential stabilize the offense when things break down at bad times, and provide some much needed perimeter D. Or at least in theory he could, but at least now we get to find out.
And we might even start to see a limit to Joe's minutes! This would make us less reliant on, and save wear and tare on him so he doesn't break down in the playoffs.
Now, I've given you several reasons why we could be better next year, but while i'd like to take credit for them, I can't because I learned them all when many of you argued them to me during the last couple of seasons.
What happened? Are you all willing to contradict yourselves and give up what you believed then that easily?
What the hell, haters?
A FanPost expresses the opinion of the community member who wrote it and not that of the blog management.
20 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I don't know who you're addressing with this rant, but....
I’m excited to see what Larry Drew can do for this team. The fact that he’s giving Teague a chance proves he’s different than Woody (who never gave our young PGs a chance). Teague was impressive in limited minutes last year. It’s a shame he didn’t see more playing time, because he might be more ready to run the show this season. If Teague is, in fact, starting at the point next year, you can expect it to be a learning process, where the Hawks may not win as many games as they did last year, but it will be for the best in the long run. And I wouldn’t be so quick to give management a lot of credit for placing Drew at the helm. They did it because he will be the least paid NBA coach in the league. We’re just lucky it’s Drew.
As for Marvin, I hope he goes back to the way he played a year ago when he developed that deadly 3 pointer in the offseason. I blame the meltdown from a year ago, against the Cavs in the 2nd round, on the fact that Marvin & Horford were both injured for a majority of that series. People seem to forget that. And it didn’t help that they had an MVP ceremony for Lebron literally right before the tip off of game 1. The Cavs did a dance routine and the Hawks were intimidated. I get fired up when facing adversity, but the Hawks don’t for some reason. That’s why Joe Johnson gets a lot of hate. He doesn’t take over games like some of the other stars in the league. He needs to be more aggressive at times, and I think that aggressiveness would trickle down to the rest of the players on the team since he is a silent leader. But people need to stop hatin’ on Joe, because if the Hawks didn’t resign him, the Hawks would be a mess. Joe contributes a lot to this team, and isn’t as replaceable as a many people seem to think. I questioned his, and the whole team’s, heart in the series against Orlando last year, but the real reason we lost that series is our lack of a true big man.
The Hawks need a big man that can handle Howard if they want to have an edge against Orlando, and get over that hump. That’s one of the few teams the Hawks don’t match up well against. A true big man has been an issue for the Hawks for years, and ASG doesn’t seem to want to address that hole. You seem surprised that Hawks fans are upset this offseason. It’s disappointing to see a majority of the teams in the league upgrade their roster while your team sits back and does nothing aside from signing Collins & Powell. I think Hawks fans would be happier if we signed a 7’5’’ 350 pound center from Ukraine who has absolutely no talent or skills whatsoever. At least we would know that we have someone to sic on Howard when the time comes, because as of now, we don’t have an answer for him. No, Collins & Powell are not the answer.
Our playoff failure wasn't Joe Johnson breaking down
I think it was a lack of a defensive scheme, I don’t know what happened in the Milwaukee Series but after the first two games the Bucks reorganized and made the Hawks run those Iso-Joes (when those don’t go in their is a problem) and ran amuck inside. In the Orlando they didn’t know whether to defend the perimeter or double team Howard and essentially did neither, and Crawford & Johnson were cold / defended well respectively going 18-57 and 17-57 through the 4 games
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 9, 2010 11:24 AM EDT reply actions
no not really
Agree with the whole “Marvin Williams needs to untap his potential” thing, but we’ve been saying that for quite a while now. Hopefully, the Larry Drew era will provide some kick in his step offensively and remain the same defensively. I think our reliance of Jeff Teague is necessary but it don’t think it’ll correlate in wins with the amount of turnovers and mistakes he’s bound to make, I mean really it technically his first year, unless he’s just phenominal IMO.
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 10, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the post
I think the Hawks will be better in some areas and worse in some areas under LD. Every system/scheme has its strengths and weaknesses. I think Teague will do better in a system that was less Iso Dependent because he is not a pure shooter yet like bibby is.
I also think that Teague will play better and have less TO playing with the first team.
Awww
You guys should hook up, for reals.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
by Jesse28 on Aug 11, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The problem
is that this core has thoroughly proven that they are incapable of winning a game in the 2nd round of the playoffs, much less an entire series. This became even more evident after the MIami Super Friends got together. This team, as constructed, will not make the Eastern Conference Finals barring a massive wave of injuries to other teams.
Since that fact is nearly indisputable, why not make some changes? Why not deal your aging, about to be on the wrong side of the curve, star SG for a younger piece? At least why not learn a lesson from mid market teams that become hamstrung by giving max contracts to non-max players and offer Joe less than the max? At the VERY least, don’t offer to pay him until he’s in his mid 30s. I had so much hope for a prudent decision last summer when they offered 4 yrs for 60 million.
That's ridiculous
There is nothing mystic about the second round of the playoffs. They are games just like any other.
Talent, match-ups, Tactics, and motivation wins games. The coach can improve three of those things.
I don’t know what you thought about Woodson, but do you not think that Drew could change things for the better?
I have a Str8talk question for you, TF--
Do you believe in your heart and mind that the 2010-11 Hawks are a serious championship contender?
Just yes or no, please.
I'll do my best to give you as st8est of an answer as I can.
I beleive that something unexpected would have to happen for them to win a championship.
This could be a trade, a player or two getting much better, a wildly successful scheme that surpasses what we think this team is capable of, or more likely, some combination of the above.
Teams are never the same at the end of the season as they were at the start. Some get better, and some get worse. Some teams get dramatically better. Some fall off the face of the earth.
As a fan, I am prepared for any one of those things to happen , and I’ll enjoy the season regardless as long as we aren’t tanking or something similarly disgraceful.
So the bad news is that it would take some changes, but the good news is that things are guarantied to change every year for every team. If your asking me if we could win a title if the playoffs started today, then of course they couldn’ t, but we have a long way to go till then.
and the atmosphere and effort level of the players and coaches might be different in the playoffs, but they are still just basketball games. The only thing that makes them different is the importance everyone places on them. I’m sure that as our team gets more playoff experience they will handle the pressure better, and preform better as underdogs in the playoffs. Although the playoff losses are another thing that everyone blamed on Woodson at the time.
Well, that settles it.
You answer is “no”:
“I beleive that something unexpected would have to happen for them to win a championship.”
“So the bad news is that it would take some changes”
So why are you irked with the people who believe this same thing, again?
“but the good news is that things are guarantied to change every year for every team.”
They are? Like for the Clippers, you mean? Or for Memphis, or Minnesota, or New Jersey? Golden State? Portland and Utah—good but not great teams that never are able to get over the hump?
These changes you speak of are not at all guaranteed to be big enough to make a real difference on a year-to-year-basis. Maybe there are small changes each year that culminate in large change over time, but huge changes in one year from the same roster? Even with a new coach, I think HUGE changes are rare.
So when you say this:
“If your asking me if we could win a title if the playoffs started today, then of course they couldn’ t”
after saying this:
“So we didn’t get any new players, who cares? There are many ways that our team could be better next year”
It seems to me you’re coming pretty close to hypocrisy yourself.
Regarding the playoff games…Woodson lost the games in the Milwaukee series by refusing to adjust to a zone defense until it was almost too late. Skiles made the change that made the difference for the Bucks—attacking the basket every time and running simultaneous back-cuts that confused the switching. It worked because the hawks’ interior defenders got caught out at the free throw line repeatedly, allowing the Bucks’ guards to score on layups or find cutters. Woody’s inflexibility was the problem.
Versus Orlando, though, the problem was the players. We all know Howard could not be stopped, but the Hawks had no decent perimeter D for their shooters or the driving Jameer Nelson, either. I think most of us realized no coach could have solved that problem because the Magic were just a better team.
Like you say, there will have to be pretty significant changes for this team to compete at the highest level. The coaching may or may not have been fixed; perhaps now the Hawks will win a first-round series in suitable fashion instead of getting snookered by the opposing bench. However, I think most of us now are convinced, after two straight blowouts to top teams, that personnel is the next problem. And not only is that not apparently getting fixed, but the personnel problem is very very likely to be a bigger impediment in future years.
Ok so things aren't exactly rosy right now
We still have a good basketball team, with many good players. And lots of things to look forward to as fans. I agree that their are plenty of red flags. But you said nothing in that post that you know for a fact is going to be a major issue. It’s all just predictions that are based on hypothetical models that may or may not be calculating results based on sound assumptions.
Nobody really has a clue what the NBA landscape is going to look like once the season starts. So it’s really not possible for me to answer your original question honestly. I don’t think the Hawks can win a championship without something to put them over the hump. But I wasn’t really thinking about championships in the first place. Not at this time of the year.
To be frank, I actually think that always looking at everything “through the prism” of whether or not a team will win a championship is something that only a troglodyte would do. The only fans that should do that are ones who’s teams have won so many championships that anything else seems mundane.
All this worrying about our roster is just a silly “sky is falling” attitude from people who are raging about not being able to beat Orlando. Orlando is only a problem if we have to play them in the playoffs. The odds are we won’t. And there’s not even a quarantine that they will even be good anymore by the time we are ready to challenge for a championship.
Was anyone who knows what they talking about ever say anything about the Hawks being in position to win a title by now at any time in the past few years? Who decided that this is the point that we say the Hawks have hit their ceiling? They’ve gotten better ever year so far and 2 of out best 3 players still haven’t reached their full potential.
Everybody seems to think we’re about to Plataea but everyone always thinks that.
Speaking of prisms
It seems like you are looking through a regular season prism as well my friend. Yes, the team has improved every year in the regular season to the point that we are now a top five team in the East. I understand that this team went through a decade of futility that most fans do not want to go through again, but we really shouldn’t be looking at the regular season as a barometer anymore.
That success should be expected and the playoffs are where we want to see improvement. We saw no improvement during these last playoff series and in fact, it would be easy to say that we actually say a decrease in performance. If you honestly believe that bringing back the exact same team with the exact same horrible bench and limited roster depth will increase our playoff performance, then I’d definitely say that you aren’t looking towards the future and are setting your expectations too low.
And there’s nothing wrong with that. Each fan is equally entitled to their own expectations and opinions of what they believe this team should be trying to achieve. Knowing and understanding the past and being content with simply making the playoffs each year is not wrong. However, thinking that just making the playoffs isn’t enough is not wrong either. It’s simply a matter of where each individual wants to set the bar for their team. There’s nothing wrong with having different opinions.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
We're close to being on the same page here
But I want to be clear that teams like the hawks should be using the regular season as a sort of practice ground to get ready for the playoffs. So It is correct to say that I am looking at things and thinking about things "through the prism of the regular season, but that’s only because that’s whats next and because it’s foolish for us to focus on the playoffs at this time of year.
We aren’t the Celtics. Their players have been around long enough to know what’s going to be needed of them when the situation is win or go home. They are more experienced, and they need less preparation from their coaching staff. They can turn “it” on because they have done “it” so many times.
With the Hawks, the only times I’ve felt like they exceeded their talent level was the first Boston series, and to a lesser extent the first half of last season. But I’ve never thought that they could raise their level of play when they needed too. That’ something that’s mandatory for any title contender.
And this is also one of those area’s where the statistics will mislead you. A lot of y’all like to point out that most of our core is old enough that they are mostly as good as they are going to be already. Not that they can’t get better statistics than they have right now, but they aren’t going to have a dramatic increase from their current baselines. And this is mostly based off of information that is gotten from studying how the numbers of similar players change at various ages.
But that doesn’t measure the intangibles that I’m talking about. I’ve watched most of these players for their entire NBA careers, and I have seen nothing that convinces me that any of them cannot develop those intangibles to various degrees. So I still don’t beleive I have seen this teams ceiling yet. And I think that if they ever get there then they will be able to play with anyone.
Well
My only counterpoint would be that if you believe this team, but more importantly it’s core players, have yet to reach thier ceiling, then there’s no reason not to expect regular season success and you should be looking at the playoffs as the teams true barometer for success. Your own expectations mean that you believe the team to still be a 50-win, 3rd-5th seed playoff team, which is what I expect as well.
However, if that is indeed the case, then some of us are simply stating that the ASG has done nothing to show us that they are trying to improve the team in a way that will lead to playoff success. We are basing our opinions from two years of playoffs and saying that if nothing has changed then we highly doubt that the playoff result will change either. I agree that the current core group of players can still perform better, I’m just not sure if they can perform at a level high enough to overcome the record margin of defeat that they set two years in a row.
And that’s the kick to the sack right there. If nothing has changed, then what do we have to believe that this team is going to overcome 20-30pt MOL (margin of loss) this upcoming playoffs? Are we supposed to just believe that they can do it? I think I’ll just keep my expectations where they are (45-50 wins, playoff team, bounced in the second round) and let the team surprise me if/when they get better.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Fair enough
I was never thinking about either of you when I wrote this post. My main point is that so much is going to happen between now and the playoffs that it’s better to just take the season as it comes until the second season starts. Then decide what we think their chances are
it’s fine to think that the Hawks can’t do this, or can’t do that. But most people can’t give credible reasons for why they think the Hawks suck.
The ones that can refuse to say anything but variations of "The Hawks suck and everyone involved is the WORST!
The reason they can’t is either because they are losers projecting themselves on to the Hawks, or because they are blatantly trolling. Usually it’s a bit of both.
The difference is between thinking about the point your making, and thinking about how to prove a point you already made. Without people like you guys on the board there would be little reason to come to these boards at all.
Back at you, TF
I like reading what you have to say even when I don’t agree. Keep up the good work.
What?!?
Trolling?!? Surely you jest good sir.
Haha. Well, I think I’ve plainly admitted to being overly negative at times, especially when it came to Woodson, but I’ve always tried to back my opinions up with logical and objective points. Of course, that doesn’t always stop me from blasting a doom-n-gloom every now and then, haha.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
- The Facebook campaign to hire Will Ferrell for All-Star Game player intros is underway
- Video: Meet the infamous bearded guy that goes nuts by the 76ers’ bench
- Video: Russell Westbrook makes the TNT crew go nuts
- Video: Boston works in a half-court football snap after winning the tip
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
