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Around SBN: Chauncey Billups Injures Achilles Tendon

Like it or not, ASG got it right this summer.

(Editor's Note: We don't think it's crazy, and wanted to offer a more positive outlook on this offseason than we offered thus far. Nice job.)

Please fellow Hawks fans, before you think I am crazy  and have lost my mind let me explain my reasoning on this scenario by scenario...

 

1) Joe Johnson contract - Like it or not he was going to get a max contract offer from multiple teams. You don't think once the Clippers, Knicks, Chicago and Jersey missed out on Lebron, Wade and Bosh; Joe wasn't next on their radar? For some reason people think that only superstars get max contracts. That's true if other teams are not waiting to give Joe the max. This year was a players market so 2 other players that aren't superstars got them as well. For those who don't know, he is only the 16th highest paid player in the league this year. Everyone wants to be down on Joe based off the playoffs last season. If Joe goes to NY then the Hawks ARE NOT a playoff team and folks are bashing the ASG for being cheap. No way another superstar comes here if Joe leaves.

2) Not Trading Marvin for Shaq - Correct again. 1) Shaq's focus is on TV shows and endorsements until the playoffs come. 2) You don't ship away one of your starters for a guy that wants to start over your decade younger, All Star center.  3) His production: Shaq only gives you 12 ppg last year playing with Lebron AND in the starting lineup. What does he give you a year older  and only playing bench minutes? What do you do with ZaZa, let him ride the pine? He is only 26 (on paper) and still bigger than D. Howard.

3) Not signing Shaq straight up - If Shaq wanted ATL to pay an inflated price just to sign him when he would take the minimum to go to Boston or San Antonio, I rather him walk. Even if we did sign him, that makes us less flexible for any trades during the season.

4) Selling the draft pick - Just because the ASG didn't overspend on a bench player this summer, doesn' t mean they don't plan on using that 3 mill they got for that extra draft pick. They could make another major move during the trade deadline. With the extra cash and less signed draft pics, the Hawks will have more flexibility.

5) Not going in the luxury tax.... yet. - If you look at the teams with the highest payrolls, most of them are not close to a championship. Indiana, Philly, NO and the Charlotte all have a higher payroll than Atlanta now. Even with Joe's max deal. Let's let Orlando blow their payroll on guys like Brandon Bass and plant them on the bench.

6) Keeping Jamal Crawford - This man is an All-NBA player who is an assassin at the 3, and can blow by any man in front of him. Why in the H would people suggest trading him for anything less than an all-star? Who could you get that could score like him? ASG need to go ahead and give him the extension. 

Not saying that the ASG is perfect, but they didn't do anything this year make the Hawks go in the wrong direction. If Teague turns out to be a average starter, the Hawks are the 3rd best team in the East this year.

A FanPost expresses the opinion of the community member who wrote it and not that of the blog management.

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Got it right

Great article Kennis.. With regards to No1 point, I remember I wrote a comment on Joe getting the max and most people disagreed…http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/12/4/1186223/joe-to-the-max
With regards to Chills, he was not coming to the Hawks after the burnt bridges and the Hawks tried for 2 years to trade him but could not get anything better than a second round pick, Considering that we were not going to match, that was the best we could do.
Marvin and Bibby did not get bad deals . They are both starters on a 50 win team.

by dkrib on Aug 8, 2010 8:37 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm with ya 100%

People are trying to play GM and figure out the cap situation 4 years from now. That’s what teams like the Washington, Indiana, NJ, Minnesota, etc. are doing because they are not close to a championship. In my opinion, Atlanta is a trade away from having a team that COULD win it all.

Everyone complained about Marvin and his deal, until Shaq wanted to come here in a S&T for Marvin. Then everyone jumped on the Marvin bandwagon, lol!

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 8, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets get a few things straight ...

From the get-go lets remember one thing: Never Trust The ASG

1.) Signing Joe Johnson was good for the short run but absolutely horrible for the long run. As said throughout this blog, he has a good 2 -3 year max where he will perform close to or right under the contract that he was given. What about the remaining 3-4 years of his contract? He’ll be in the same position as Tracy McGrady… Overused and Aged. He will take up almost half of our salary cap which will make us virtually impossible to make adequate moves with free agency and we’ll be trying to find the next “fix.” Also the All-Star Center doesn’t want to play that position and seeing that he is a Restricted free agent, you want to save as much money for him and try and get pieces that complement him.

2. & 3.) The ASG once again blew smoke up our asses when they were “trying” to sign O’Neal. All it took was a 2 year $2.8 million deal. He was probably turned off from this dysfunctional ownership group who didnt know how to come to single decision that he took less money and a lesser role on a team that knew what it wanted to do from the start. What do we have in return. Jason Collins returning for the veteran minimum ($1.3 million) and Josh Powell who signed for a one year deal ($1.1 million). Wow ASG youve really outdone yourselves.

4.) I would’ve really liked to draft a young Big in the draft to see what we wouldve done. First rounders automatically count against the salary cap, but second rounders do not and come at a fraction of the price… So instead of seeing a potential bench player come in and work for minutes we rely on people who don’t really contribute on the court. ASG did overspend for a bench player and his name is Jason Collins

5.) Yeah, they aren’t going into the luxury tax unless they come up with a Chris Paul trade idea… and knowing how hard it was to trade for Joe Johnson that isn’t happening from this ownership group.

6.) The only reason ASG would sign Crawford to a multi-year deal is if Johnson went somewhere else… It’s not happening and he’s most likely going to get traded by the trade deadline.

So, ASG promised to put pieces around JJ if he signed and they have done jack squat but put the same pieces as a year ago only to a more inflated salary… I dont blame Rick Sund as much as ASG because they are the ones making the decisions in this game he is pretty much a puppet in the whole scheme. Way to go, ASG

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 8, 2010 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

My spin...

1) Kobe will be 35 and making 30M for the Lakers. You think anyone complained about that? How about Dirk making 22M when he is 35? Peirce making 15M when he 36? If you don’t think Joe is that good let me ask you a question: Who was the last Hawk you see get double team in ANY game that name wasn’t Joe Johnson? We can’t say the Joe deal paralyzed the Hawks until it actually does. Sund turned Acie Law and Speedy Claxton into Jamal Crawford. How stupid would we look if the number 3 team in the East let their best player walk because we where worried about the team flexibility in 2014?

2&3) First, Shaq didn’t want to sign here for the vet minimum when he could go to Boston for the vet minimum (http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/08/05/atlanta-hawks-no-shaq-now-what/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks). Second, Shaq could go to Boston and start right away. He had no chance to start in ATL. From everything I read, unless we used a MLE and overpaid for Shaq’s services, he wasn’t going to ATL.

4) First, how can you overspend on a player that makes the vet minimum? Second, I agree that a young big would have been a great addition. However, we can make that move next year if we need to. I think the ASG wants to have the most flexibility for trades and this gives it to them.

5) We don’t know that, lets wait and see before we bash them…

6) JC ranks #6 for SG in the entire league. People don’t value him because he doen’t start. Why do you think giving away your best players will make the team better. Which other guard duo in the league is better than JC and JJ?

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 8, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

you lost all credability

when you mentioned joe is the same sentence as kobe/dirk/paul pierce

this question: If you don’t think Joe is that good let me ask you a question: Who was the last Hawk you see get double team in ANY game that name wasn’t Joe Johnson?

is so dumb….just cause he is the best player the hawks have does not mean he deserves a max deal

i guess this blog post was easy for you to write b/c in 2013 when this IS handicapping the hawks, you will be no where to be found

by StottsEra on Aug 8, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll take Joe over Dirk and Pierce

When the last time you saw a team double team Paul Pierce?

I like Dirk but he’s no better Joe on Offense and worse than Joe on defense.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 8, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahahaha

you need to stop rating players on how often they get double teamed

and really? joe over dirk? thats just silly

by StottsEra on Aug 8, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dirk and Joe are about the same...

Career Averages:

Dirk – .473 FG and .380 3P and 2.7 Ast

Joe – .443 FG and .373 3P and 4.5 Ast

To me they are about even. Really good. Not great. Just play different positions. Dirk shoots a lot of long jumpers (and hits a lot of them). Joe can hit jumpers well also, but he also can drive to the whole and hit the floaters.

My personal reason for picking Joe over Dirk is because joe can defend 3 positions… well. I don’t watch a lot of Mavs basketball, but from what I hear, he is a below average defender.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 9, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

For awesomeness.

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 9, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

HAHAHAHAHA

So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it

by Throw on Aug 9, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

What do you mean Shaq wouldn't start if we got him...

Thats why we are going after him in the first place. He would start at C, Al would start at PF, and Josh would have to start at SF

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 8, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

Seriously? I’m just making sure that’s not a joke.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

anyone who thinks

josh smith at SF would be good for this team does not watch the NBA

by StottsEra on Aug 8, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

I rather have smooth come off the bench than have him start at the 3.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 9, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

And he wouldn't come off the bench behind Shaq...

both he and Al are vastly better players right now. Not in their prime of course, but today, Shaq is nowhere close to either.

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 9, 2010 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have never seen a worse idea of what the team needs to win in the playoffs.
Of course if your idea was to have the team NOT do as well in the playoffs then you are absolutely correct. The rest of us want OUR team to be better. Are you on the Hawks payroll and protecting your salary?

by The Real Hawk on Aug 8, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Amare and Boozer where the 2nd best players on thier teams last year

and got a max deal and nobody complained. We give our best player a max deal and everybody mad.

The worst idea I see are pretend GMs thinking you blow up a 53 win team with a young core. Folks act like they have to pay them guys out of their own pocket.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 8, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

My favorite thing about all the haters...

For Woodson’s entire tenure they blamed him for everything, and thought that the Hawks would do better if we had any other coach.

Now that we have a chance to find out, they think that their is NO WAY that we will be any better than we were last year. And they even have the balls to criticize ASG when they blame something on Woodson now.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 3:21 PM EDT reply actions  

And the way they KNOW IN THEIR HEARTS(or something) that the ASG are making all the decisions.

Like any of you know how to run a proffessional basketball team, or how they should conduct buisiness.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't like I used too.

There’s still alot of great content in the Hawks blogosphere, but the loud minority has been allowed to turn it into a bunch of jackles that will kill the franchise that they are “fans” of to satisfy their own sense of entitlement and to soften the disappointment of picking the Hawks over the Heat

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think "blame Woody" might have been the all-out case

—until the playoffs. Honestly I think at that point many fans on these blogs realized that, in addition to the Woody problems, the team was flawed enough that they would not make a serious run no matter who was coach.

After that, talk about trying to win now and going into the luxury threshold to get an impact player created a flicker of excitement that quickly turned to disgust when it became obvious that ASG were full of it. People tend to get more irked when they’ve been led on.

by rbubp on Aug 8, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm honestly baffled...

How can you beleive that after all the shit you’ve talked about Woodson over the years. Are you really willing to discard all the potential that you never saw fulfilled because of Woodson?

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you have more than one man running the show, which is the case of ASG...

Things do not get done in a timely manner, people have different ideas, and its frustrating to fans trying to find cohesion in a dysfunctional group. Players dont want to come to an organization where the owners can make a damn decision

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 8, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

You said that we should move Smooth to SF to facilitate Shaq of all people

That’s really all O need to say to you. Go think hard about what you think about our players and then come back and try to argue with me.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said i wanted to move him to SF

I said if we got Shaq then we most probably would have to out of necessity or trade him in the end. I think he has matured to the point where I dont think he would make the same mistakes that we saw when he was playing SF a couple years ago especially if he gains a solid 15-17 ft. jumper. The only issue I would see is, is he quick enough to handle other SF in this league which has yet to be seen

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 8, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody said Woody is somehow redeemed, TF.

But come on, man. You really believe this team is capable of more than third place/second round flame-out after what we saw in the playoffs?

I’m glad Woodson’s gone, don’t get me wrong. But I think Drew needs more.

by rbubp on Aug 8, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think your saying he's redeemed

Imo I don’t think he needs to be redeemed.

We aren’t talking about the same thing. I’m saying that after all the arguments you’ve made to me about how Woody’s tactics and style were costing us games and holding the team back.

You don’t think there is potential for this team to improve based on better coaching? If so, it seems like you didn’t really beleive yourself all those times we argued about Woodson.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm very sketptical that the team can improve.

That’s because Bibby got worse as the year went on and now he’s a year older; “chemistry” issues became a problem; other teams got better; and the Hawks had no injuries last year.

Maybe Miami is good and Cleveland is worse, and maybe Boston gets worse and we’re still in the same third place. But the thing that really cost the Hawks games in the regular season last year more than anything else was poor defense, I think, not poor offense. THEN, in the playoffs we saw Woody’s inept offensive coaching…but we also saw a team that, for whatever reason, gave up. Is that Woody’s fault alone? I’m inclined to think not…I think that’s also a crisis of player leadership. Not sure how that has changed, or our lack of perimeter D, or our ability to stop D Howard in the playoffs.

by rbubp on Aug 8, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

How Much Does It Take?

Stop drinking the koolaid ASG is about keeping their money and not building a winner.
If they were so good Woodsen would have been fired years ago.

by The Real Hawk on Aug 8, 2010 3:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't care about ASG at all.

What I do care about is the 53 win team that has something to prove. Every year people trash our everything about the Hawks organization, and every year they do better than the last year.

What’s so horrible about this franchise front runner?

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a winner?

We are the 6th best team in the NBA. That’s not a winner?

Keeping their money? Didn’t they just offer Joe a 120M dollar contract?

Woodson did a great job with the players he had. I think he reached his sealing with Atlanta, but I wouldn’t say he was a bad coach. He turned JJ into a 4 time all star when he was the 4th best player in PHX before he left.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 8, 2010 3:55 PM EDT reply actions  

what???

who ranked the teams in the NBA?? the hawks are 6th? we wouldnt have even made playoffs in west last year and the bulls have passed us this offseason, so we are now 5th at best in east

by StottsEra on Aug 8, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bulls better than the Hawks?

Not even close. They have us beat at ONE position! That’s it! Joe is WAY better than Brewer. Marvin and Deng is a wash. Josh is better than Boozer (counting offense and defense) and Horford is better than Noah. Crawford is better than the rest of Chicago’s bench combined.

FYI, Boozer averaged 9 ppg and 8 rebounds last year when they played the Hawks. Smooth averaged 17 ppg, 7 boards and 2 blocks when they played Utah.

Plus the standings ranked the teams in the NBA, not me. Now your are going to tell me that the actual games won don’t count right?

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 8, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

you know

its an uneven schedule, right? you do know that the conferences play their own conference more often, correct?

by StottsEra on Aug 9, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your an idiot for saying

“we wouldn’t have even made playoffs in west last year”

At least have your facts straight if your going to be so condescending.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

our record doesnt matter b/c

we played 2/3rds of our games against the crap in the EAST

anyone who thinks we are a better team then the thunder is mistaken

by StottsEra on Aug 9, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're an idiot....

and not a true Hawks fan. You think because the Bulls picked up Boozer and a couple other pieces that they are better than the Hawks? Leave the drugs alone my friend. IMO, there are a ton of supposedly “Hawks fans” on this blog that doubt what we have in our team. I think the only this team needs to show is that they have heart and will not give up like they did in the playoffs. 53 games is great, but the playoffs is where things matter. Boston won less games than the Hawks in the regular season and were robbed from the NBA title last year. Case and point, the regular season doesn’t mean anything unless you win in the playoffs!

by Anonymous HawksGuy on Aug 9, 2010 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

What Is A WInner?

A winner is a team that does not use stats to prove it self. The object of sports is to win a championship. Progress is what is expected. We have not done that in the playoffs. You cannot win the championship in the regular season.

by The Real Hawk on Aug 8, 2010 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Change your name dude.

To the Front runner Hawk. Because that’s what you are if you aren’t willing to give this team a chance just because you don’t think they can win a title.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amen to that!

The Hawks were 5-1 against the two teams in the finals last year. I think they have a better chance than some folks in this blog think.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 8, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

the regular season

doesnt mean anything. this is so obvious seeing when the celtics did in the playoffs this year.

peachtree hoops – poor of ya’ll to let these homer opinions continue on here

by StottsEra on Aug 9, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

A championship takes time...

Unless you get Lebron, Bosh and Wade in one summer there is no instant, quick championship formula. Champions have to do well in the regular season, that’s step number one. Playoffs in the NBA comes down to match ups lots of times. Lebron went out the same time that round as the Hawks. So did the Jazz and the Spurs. The Mavs and Denver went out in the first round. I guess none of these teams are winner, huh?

The Hawks increased their win total, went from the 4th to the 3rd seed, got better individually (Al and Josh). I think last season was a step forward for Atlanta. I’m not saying that the ASG is the best ownership group in the NBA. I just think they got it right this summer.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 8, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get why everyother comment I read predicts the hawks failing for some reason

I thought this blog was suppost to uplift these hawks and we being diehard fans behind them 100%. But all I see is negativity. I understood that some just like to tell it like it is and criticize when needed, but when is beating a dead horse enough? this post brought positivity but somehow had turned negative

IF YOU CANT ACCEPT LOSING, YOU CANT WIN.

by Hawksgirl on Aug 8, 2010 4:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Just a bunch of haters...

The Hawks are finally on a roll and doing some good things, BUT supposedly they do everything wrong. They won 53 games last year and beat every playoff team (except OKC) but they are so horrible. I rather have the Hawks front office than Cleveland, Detroit, Indiana, Clippers, Minnesota, Golden State, Charlotte, Washington staff. Not to mention they got all those wins last year by not going into the luxury tax. I wish these Hawks haters would go to another blog :-(

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 8, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok let's stop the madness...

The Hawks are on a roll? Since when is beating inferior teams in the regular season and getting blown out with no chance in the playoffs against the top teams in the east on a roll? Either they (management) have unbelieveable faith in their players or they are totally delusional about championship aspirations

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Aug 8, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that their were so many inferior teams proves that the Hawks are a good team. Just because they weren’t the best last year, doesn’t mean they won’t be better this year.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 8, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

the post makes sense

Sund may be infuriating, but think about the Sonics in the 1990s- some playoff failures but persisting with the core got them to the Finals- where they were beaten by the Bulls. Realistically if Joe went the Hawks would not regain enough to be able to improve on last year. Overpaying a veteran for more than one season (what nearly all players who could have fit the Hawks system were given) would have been ridiculed when it comes time to extend Horford. EXTEND CRAWFORD NOW! Overpriced scorers always have a trade market further down the line if things don’t work out- particularly if Cuban still holds sway in Dallas.

by Travis Mays on Aug 8, 2010 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree with hawksgirl and kinnis gosha

we are going to get better, and hawksgirl is right I thought this was a place where we talk positive and cheer on our hawks. And the hawks are still better than the bulls overall. And the hawks won 53 games last year. I’m postive and optimistic they will continue to improve and do better =)

by bballplayer123 on Aug 8, 2010 6:48 PM EDT reply actions  

It's a place for discussion.

You want blind cheerleading, go check out the Hawks’ official site.

by rbubp on Aug 8, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand the blog is a place for discussion because I love discussing the hawks

But when your(not particularly anyone) discussing the same thing that more than likely won’t change and keep comparing them to teams you haven’t seen play yet consider “top” teams in some peoples books. it gets annoying to hear " the hawks won’t make it past the second round" " we need a big(to match d.Howard basically when no one can shut him down effectively w/out fouling the ish out of him or vice versa)" " Marvin for shaq(really?)" look all I’m saying is where is the hope and support?

IF YOU CANT ACCEPT LOSING, YOU CANT WIN.

by Hawksgirl on Aug 8, 2010 8:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Just saying

I appreciate the post which gives a positive take to the outook at what the Hawks did and didn’t do but it would be naive to think that it going to be sunshine lollipops all the way through when the reality of the situation is that we still have unanswered questions with the line up and what the management has done so far. I want to see what the Hawks pull at the February trade deadline, I mean we have to pieces to pull off something great but I’m not getting my hopes up looking at their track record so far.

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 8, 2010 9:33 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah

an even worst second round finish with the highest margin of defeat ever is better

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Aug 8, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

But haven't we make substantial additions from each year to year.

Whether through the Draft (Horford) or Free Agency (Crawford, Bibby) or Resigning valuable key assest (Smith, Marvin Williams, and Zaza) which has made our team better whether addressing key positions or creating a sense of continuity. This year haven’t really seen that yet other than Johnson, I assume we acquired Jordan Crawford which make Jamal expendible if Jordan can hold his own.

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 8, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess it's posts like this that makes you stop and wonder...

on the buisness side of basketball….is winning a championship the primary focus of most franchises? We as fans would want our teams to try and win it all every year, but how many owners worry about that? Owners should know their odds of winning a championship better than we do, so you could say the ASG got it right because they know we can’t win a championship this year even with significant additions. This could explain the attitude of the Hawks for the past 7 or 8 years of the ASG era…..If you don’t have a chance, don’t take a chance.

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Aug 8, 2010 10:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Fourth

On paper, the Hawks should be the fourth-best team in the East. The Bulls may nip them for fourth.

Unfortunately, the Hawks have been outclassed by the Celtics, Bulls, and Heat this offseason. Unless Larry Drew is a miracle worker, there is nowhere for the Hawks to go but down. It’s disappointing but true.

by Thrashy Thrashy on Aug 8, 2010 11:38 PM EDT reply actions  

And then they're that debacle that happened against the Bogut-less Bucks, yikes

their on the rise too

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 8, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

In terms of regular season standings...

I can’t pick Boston over Atlanta just yet. I think Perkins and Sheed are better or at least even with Shaq and Jermaine O’Neil. With their over the Hill core, I think that they will be similar or worse than last year. The only person with any real upside on that team is Rondo.

With the Hawks, I can see Teague, Smooth and Lion getting better next year. Not to mention contributions from Powell and JC2.

Even if the Hawks come in 5th or 6th, I just think they need to focus on developing their young players so that they can contribute in the playoffs.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 9, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Boys, play nice!

The Hawks aren’t wet behind the ears anymore. We’re going to have to bet past the “53 wins during the regular season” cop out. Cleveland won 61 and? Until we have a gritty, hard fought 2nd round exit, I’m not handing out any congratulatory pats on the back. They should want better than that. They get paid to produce better than that. They’re a group of talented young men that SHOULD have a chip on their shoulders after they were straight up destroyed in the 2nd round. Somebody needs to step up and hold every single guy on the roster accountable for his actions and play. If not the highest paid guy on the roster, then the one with the biggest heart needs to do it.

Bet it hit the rim!

by dstdeelite on Aug 9, 2010 9:16 AM EDT reply actions  

lots of dumb in this post

the hawks have gotten absolutely embarrassed in 5 out of their last 5 playoff appearances. I cannot believe so many people here are fine with that. Name another top 10 NBA team you can say that about.

by StottsEra on Aug 9, 2010 1:25 PM EDT reply actions  

agreed

Good to see TF go dormant for a year only to come back and stir things up!

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 9, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been lurking

I just got tired of arguing around in circles with people, but the demorilized state of our fans is sad to see so I hope I can bring some of the fire back.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 9, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what do you suggest?

We let Joe go, we might not make the playoffs. What do you think?

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 9, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

You make some really great points.

In fact, I agree with all of your arguments. But I still take issue with the signing of Joe Johnson to a max deal. Joe Johnson has done nothing for your team. How many times do you need to watch your team get beaten in the second round of the playoffs before you realize that he can’t take you to the promised land? Sure, if Joe Johnson isn’t on the team, the Hawks are not making the playoffs. But as long as Joe Johnson is the best player on the Atlanta Hawks, Atlanta will not win a championship.*

So now you’ve committed $120+ million dollars to a player that can get your team swept in the second round of the playoffs, and locked him up for six years. Terrific.

I suppose, from an owner standpoint, a playoff team makes a lot more money in ticket and merchandise sales than a non-playoff team and losing your best player because you don’t want to pay him is certainly not good PR. But if winning a championship is your ultimate goal (and I hope it is) then paying Joe Johnson through the nose so you can keep losing in the playoffs while he averages 16 ppg and takes money baths after every game isn’t going to get you there.

*It is my opinion that to win an NBA Championship you have to have one of the ten best players in the NBA. After that, there are plenty of ways to build a team, but first you must have that top ten guy. If you disagree with that, that’s fine. I can’t really objectively prove that, so it’s more of an opinion than a theory. I think that Joe Johnson is a top 15-20 guy, and could absolutely be the second best player on a championship team (if he somehow made it to Orlando or Boston, for example, I think they would have a great shot). If you disagree with my assessment of his talent, I cannot fault you. Perhaps I don’t watch enough or know enough about the Hawks, and he’s better than I’m giving him credit for.

by Cannonater on Aug 9, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

If Joe walks who do we get?

You think Carmelo’s coming here? Dwight Howard? Chris Paul?

Is Joe Perfect? No. Are there better players in the league? Of course. The problem is that if we give away Joe, why would Horford or JCrawford want to stay here? Why would elite players come to a then lottery team? We go back to Hawks of 2004-2005.

Until the ASG turns down a trade or a move that is put us in the finals I don’t know what everyone is mad about? Everything thinks that we went out and signed Jamal Crawford. We got Jamal from a trade for Speedy Claxton and Acie Law. That might be one of the best moves in the history of the NBA (outside Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol). Not saying our front office is perfect, but I feel like as fans we should give them a shot before we make them out to be the worst ever.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 9, 2010 4:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Kinnis, I can buy your argument for keeping Joe

but I think we have to acknowledge that it means the Hawks need to try to win as much as they can right now because The Contract hamstrings the future Hawks pretty tightly. Not being aggressive about going after Paul or, really, anyone else worth a snot is really the issue for me.

by rbubp on Aug 9, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

THANK YOU, KINNIS

Overall, our team makes the right moves. Listening to some fans you would believe the Hawks are headed for the lottery. Other than signing Jamal long-term, I wholly agree with your article.

by axhfan on Aug 9, 2010 5:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Signing Jamal Long Term is a wild card right now...

I think it depends on how Teague pans out and how JC2 comes along. I don’t think the Hawks make a move until these things are known.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 9, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

That’s why I think it was so smart to restrain from trading Jamal for anything. Now we either have 1) A viable trade option 2) A great bench scorer 3) 10M coming off the cap.

by axhfan on Aug 9, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Post

I actually like this alot. you are finding the positives amongst the negatives that many people enjoy bringing up.

So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it

by Throw on Aug 9, 2010 6:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks, I'm trying here!

I just think there are so many teams that are worse off than the Hawks right now. As fans we should be looking towards the upcoming season with optimism.

I know a lot of fans are hurt about how we went out in the playoffs last year. Take the Dallas Cowboys for instance. They had a really good season and the front office made moves to make the team better. They got beat down in the NFC Semis by Minnesota, but they aren’t suggesting that Jerry Jones sell the team or that he is a bad owner?!? I’m not vouching for ASG to be the ownership group of the decade. I just think they didn’t do a BAD job this summer.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 9, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

the joe johnson deal was a loss either way you see it. had we gave him up, atl would have been criticized for not keeping its star player. had we spent money on him, we would be criticized for spending money on a player on his decline. So I agree with you there. I agree with keeping marvin, he is our 1 good sf on the team and giving him up for a player who should have retired when he was with the heat would have been a dumb choice. I like what you wrote, you just keepin hope alive even though it seems that everyone that claim to be hawks fans are putting the team down. If your a fan of the team, why not support them instead of criticizing them. Besides it only matters when the season starts and we see what the team can do.

So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it

by Throw on Aug 9, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Frankly...it doesn't look good.

Taking money out of the equation, and only looking at the upcoming season, where have we improved from last year? We still have a hole in the pivot (Shaq wasn’ t gonna fill that hole, and if K. Perkins wasn’t out till January at best, he wouldn’t be in Boston), we still have a hole on the wing (unless by some miracle Marvin plays up to his draft position), we still have no real bench outside of JC(no backup at the 3, Mo Evans is very much past his expiration date, bigs are nothing more than filler), and our PG can’t guard anyone that moves faster than a tricycle. People keep harping on the fact that we won 53 games last year, but all that got us was 7 games with a Milwaukee team that was at maybe 70% of what they are capable of, and a 4 game, 100 point plus whitewashing embarrassment. We all know that we are not championship material, and anyone tha t thinks otherwise is coo coo, dumb, and crazy. Miami will switch places with Cleveland, Chicago and Milwaukee have gotten as good as we are, and Charlotte and Washington aren’t that far behind (and they made moves to improve, unlike us).

You need either three great players or two superstars, one of them being a big man to win a championship (the only exception is Detroit since 1980). Right now, we don’t fit either of those templates. We have three very good players…one of which has the potential to be great. Let’s be real…we are a first round playoff team, who with the right matchup, can get to round two. And while I hate that this is what we are, it is better than what we were before, and it’s OK to accept that. We can all hope for the best, and I’ll be right there watching and hoping. But let’s not hope and wish from an unrealistic foundation. We are what we are.

'Bama fan since birth, NIners & Hawks fan since '86, Braves fan since '90

Championships: 'Bama - check. Braves - work in progress. Niners - playoff berth is hoped for. Hawks....maybe in my lifetime

by ronniemac03 on Aug 9, 2010 11:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I see atlanta improving with...

1) Development of Teague

2) More efficient Joe Johnson (since he won’t have to stick Rondo, Brooks, Paul and D.Williams every night

3) Different Head Coach and Offensive Philosophy

4) An upgrade at the backup PF position (Josh Powell)

5) Another scorer off the bench (Jordan Crawford)

6) More growth and maturity from J. Smooth (as he gets his first All star birth)

7) Growth from Horford (who hasn’t reached his sealing yet).

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 9, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

We'll see

1 – Agreed
2 – Maybe, but doubtful. Joe will still be asked to defend the opponent’s best guard every night because Bibby and JC can’t and we still don’t know if Teague can. We know he can stay in front and keep up with them, but can he defend them effectively?
3 – The offense wasn’t the problem and there isn’t much more to improve on when you are the third most efficient offense in the league. The defense is the question mark. Can Larry Drew improve that? I’m not sure because eventually it comes down to the players and I don’t believe we have the perimeter players that can make the best use of a different defensive system. I’m willing to give Drew his shot though.
4 – If you mean over Joe Smith, then yes.
5 – One can hope, but unless he turns out to be the next Tyreke Evans this isn’t something you can bank on just yet.
6 – This gets stated before each year and while we have seen some vast improvements over the years, we are now looking at Smoove being in the league for 6 years. At some point the improvement is bound to stop and I’m willing to bet it’s going to happen soon. I sure hope not and it sure would be awesome if he got his damn head straight.
7 – Agreed, he hasn’t reached his ceiling yet.

Warning – Wall Of Text (skip if reading hurts your brain)!

While I appreciate anyone looking at the bright side of things, there’s a difference between being realistic and overly optimistic. The same is true for the opposite and I admit that I have had an overall negative opinion of this ownership group for a very long time.

However, there is definitely some faulty logic happening in this thread. Most importantly, while some may have thought not signing JJ was the best option, the majority here have not argued against signing him but yet argued against signing him for the amount that the ASG put down. No team could have signed JJ for more than the Hawks and everyone knew exactly what that amount would have been, so why did the ASG feel it absolutely necessary to sign him for roughly 15-20 million more than any other team could have possibly done so? Claiming that other teams would have signed him to a max deal is a moot point considering the amount that Atlanta could pay him.

Secondly, the thought that not signing JJ would automatically make this team a lottery team is flat out ridiculous. Yes, we may not have been able to replace every last drop of JJ’s production last year because JJ is clearly a multi-stat guy, but when people make this argument they end it there. We don’t sign JJ, we don’t make the playoffs, we only win 10 games, end of story. That couldn’t be further from the truth and to continually spew that mess is illogical. Does anyone honestly believe that we wouldn’t attempt to sign other players to help replace the loss of JJ? Why isn’t it possible that the above mentioned growth and development of players (Smoove, Horford, Teague, Jordan Crawford) plus signing a few more not help to facilitate that replacement? The money spent on one JJ could be better spent on two players that would fill greater needs.

As for the ASG, they have proven time and time again that they are not capable of spending money wisely. Yes, paying JJ 124mil proves they will pay the big bucks, but the problem is that they could have spent less and still signed JJ, at which point they could have still spent more money to help improve this team. Instead they sat on their rears and did nothing while many FA players that could have greatly improved this team got signed to deals for much less than what most had expected. Some mention the selling of the draft pick as adding flexibility but that is a farce. Every last penny made from that went to signing JJ and Sund even said as much. Selling that pick was incredibly short-sighted and it’s a one-time deal (we don’t keep getting that 2.8 every year) so there is no future flexibility gained from this.

Essentially, I have little faith in the ASG to do what it takes to put this team into the ECF, much less win a championship. They seem oddly content with keeping as many things the same as possible for whatever reason (money or fear of not making the playoffs). Over on Hawk Str8Talk, I proposed a completely different perspective on the ownership group that I think might actually be closer to the truth than anything. It might just be possible that this was the plan all along, or at least became the plan not long after the ASG took over ownership of the franchise. Maybe their ultimate goal was simply to buy low and sell high. There have been very few cases where a franchise sold for less than it was bought for and the ASG took over the Hawks in the midst of arguably one of the worst decades in its history. The team has slowly been built into a perennial playoff team and the value of the team is at its highest in decades. They also seem to have reached their limit in operating costs and spending potential. Owning the Thrashers and Philips Arena hasn’t helped matters and I’m sure the economy falling on its face in 07 and sliding downhill throughout 09 haven’t helped things in their individual business ventures outside of owning two pro sports teams. Maybe all they are doing is making one last attempt to push the value higher before selling out. They have been rumors that the team was being shopped for two or three years now, so it makes sense. In fact, once you look at things from that perspective it all starts making sense and honestly, I don’t blame them. They aren’t basketball people, clearly, but they are successful businessmen.

My only counterpoint to that is that I think we all could agree that winning the whole damn thing is a sure-fire way to improve your franchise’s net worth and the ASG could have done things better in that regard.

Either way, I’m more than willing to give Larry Drew an honest shot with this team. Do I agree with the JJ signing? No. Do I agree with the backend of the squad? No. But keeping the core of this team together is a huge plus in my book. I’m not willing to trade Smoove yet. Trading Horford would be plain stupid. I’m willing to give JC another year to prove he can sustain last year’s performance level. I’m even willing to give Marvin another year under Drew to see if he can salvage his career. Sure, I complain about things, but what fan doesn’t? It ain’t all bad and I think we’ll be in the playoffs again this year, 3rd or 4th or 5th, doesn’t really matter to me.

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 10, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 11, 2010 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with most of your points...

However, lets play a tale of three teams for a minute.

The Suns can let Amare Stoudemire go because they have a PG is Steve Nash and a system that allows him to be dangerous with subpar players around him. Same situation with the Utah Jazz where they master the art of Pick and Roll basketball.

With the Hawks, not only is Joe our best scorer, but our leading facilitator. If we let him walk then we have to fill in that position with a player who is less talented. Would the Hawks make the playoffs in that situation? It depends on a lot of other factors, but I think if they did make the playoffs, they wouldn’t get better than a 7th or 8th seed which means another beatdown in the playoffs but this time in the first round. In addition they will have won enough games to take themselves out of the lottery. Which means no real help via draft.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 10, 2010 2:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Only if you look at PPG

Looking at last year alone, JJ was the third best player on the team by PER, taking out anyone who didn’t play at least 1k mins he was the 7th best by TS%, 6th in eFG%, and 6th in ORtg. Looking at the Per36 metrics he was the 4th best in FG% and 2nd in Pts. The only metric that makes him our best scorer is in PPG and imo that’s simply a result of his high USG% and the benefit of playing in Woody’s sytem that absolutely made him the focus.

I went further and calculated our players PPA (total points/total attempts – or what I call scoring efficiency) and JJ is tied for 4th best with Williams at 0.81 points per attempt. This has been discussed in the past and I have posted these numbers before. Horford is simply the most efficeint scorer followed closely by Smoove, even with his long jumpers.

This is not to say that JJ can not score or is a bad scorer, but only to show that by the numbers he is clearly not the best scorer on this team. Anyone who has ever watched him play knows full well his ability to score. However, myself and others believe that he could be a much more effective scorer if he wasn’t the focus of the offense and if the offense wasn’t so predictable. A lot of people like to point out the fact that JJ gets doubled more than anyone else on the team. Well, if you were the coach of the opposing team and you knew that the Hawks offense was completely predicated on running the ISO-Joe, wouldn’t you double him and force him to beat it every time? If you take that out of the equation and let JJ be one of many options instead of the only option then you completely change the way teams have to defend you.

And just for those you like looking at numbers…Player – PPA (Points per attampt)
Horford – 1.03
Smoove – 0.89
Pachulia – 0.85
Williams – 0.81
Johnson – 0.81
Crawford – 0.77
Evans – 0.73
Bibby – 0.70

I calculated these from data provided by Basketball-Reference. All numbers provided in this post exclude players with less than 1k minutes because of small sample sizes and they do not include playoff stats. What that shows us though is just how limited we were with regards to depth. An eight man rotation…ugh.

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 11, 2010 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

In this case I don't think stats tell the whole story.

While your points about usage and PPG are valid—the others did not do all they could have because they were not they were only spokes in the wheel—it’s also true from simple observation that Joe Johnson has the most varied offensive repertoire on the team and is the only guy the Hawks have who can score from anywhere on the floor.

So it has to be noted that JJ is and was the defensive focus too, and that the PPA numbers are skewed by the fact that the other players were NEVER the defensive focus when JJ was on the floor.

Do I want JJ to be less of the focus? Yes. He clearly can only carry the team so far. Do I think the other players are capable of doing the work JJ would otherwise do? Not unless they improve their weaknesses rather rapidly. Joe has tendencies on the floor that can be defended; the other players have weaknesses. Where moving Joe away from tendencies lessens the chance he will score, he still makes shots in those conditions, moving Al or Smoove or Marvin or Bibby away from their sweet spots means a much lower rate of success. They are far, far easier to defend than Joe Johnson.

You don’t have to be an NBA scout to know that.

by rbubp on Aug 11, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Both of those were good posts

I think that usage rate as a stat is very easy to overate, however. One of the reasons that Joe’s efficiency numbers aren’t static are because he’s so good that he can try extremely difficult shoots and make them with enough frequency to still end up with a decent FG%

Every good basketball team needs a guy that can do that, and it doesn’t have to be Micheal Jordan or even Scotty Pippen. The Magic almost one a championship with Hedo Turkalo of all people playing this role, So there will always be a place for that at various points in the year.

But that doesn’t change the fact that Joe would be a much more effective player overall if he switched to a role where he played off of his teammates more often. I also beleive that he would be more effective when he does take over since he wouldn’t be over-exposed as he is now.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 11, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

And that is the sum of my stats post above. JJ is the most versatile scorer on the team and he scores a ton because of a high USG%, but he’s not very efficient. I essentially agree with the last two sentences 100%.

To counterpoint rbubp though, defenses never had a reason to make the other players on the Hawks the focus because we all knew exactly what was going to happen just about every offensive possession. ISO-Joe. Why would they even bother focusing on any player when you know once the ball reaches JJ’s hands that he’ll try and force it almost every single time? You didn’t have to be an expert to know that the Hawks had two ultimate rules, ISO-Joe and always switching on defense.

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 12, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes to both of you

TF, really good point about the tough shots.

Jesse, you’re exactly right about defenses having no reason to focus on the others. That’s my point exactly—the PPA factor is skewed because of this focus. It’s a lot easier to be more effective when the defense is geared to stop someone else.
I am not arguing for keeping the offense the same; I am arguing that 29-year-old Joe Johnson has more offensive value than the numbers suggest.

What I personally would like to see this year is keeping defenses more honest by running more plays for players not named Johnson; JJ trusting his teammates more and dribbling far, far less; and JJ learning to GET TO THE M-F’ing FREE THROW LINE. I think that last item is really an issue for stopping opposing teams’ momentum and closing out teams in the 4th quarter… and kinda separates the good players from the great ones in the NBA.

by rbubp on Aug 13, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also am skeptical that much or even all of those wishes of mine in the last post will come to pass.

It would be really nice if Larry Drew could get JJ to dribble less and get to the line more. That would be amazing coaching, IMO.

by rbubp on Aug 13, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let's remember,,,

that a SG will always have a higher PPA than a four and a center.

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 12, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you mean not always?

I haven’t looked at all players, but if you meant not always, then my brain is telling me that is a logical theory. Just what I remember from watching the games it seems that a SG should have more total attempts than most 4s and 5s.

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 13, 2010 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

spellcheck ftl

*system
*efficient
*attempt

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 11, 2010 7:53 AM EDT reply actions  

Joe Johnson's contract is horrible

He is overpaid from year 1 of the pact…..one cannot legitimize the thoughts behind such a move by simply saying “someone else would have paid him that”. Oh yeah? Let them!Besides, if he wanted that high paying 6th year, whoever was signing him would have to play ball with the Hawks (like give them young talent/picks) in a S/T. Instead, they are locked in to a mediocre player who’s best days are past him.

As far as trying to say signing Shaq would have been a bad thing, well way to try and be a company man, cause your reasoning doesn’t make sense. Shaq deserved better than the ATL franchise in its current state and thankfully for him, he got it.

ASG is horrible. HORRIBLE. Trying to justify their existence purely by saying they (over)paid JJ is flawed at best

by Julie H on Aug 11, 2010 9:57 PM EDT reply actions  

So the ASG is horrible and Joe is horrible...

so how did the Hawks get 3rd place in the East last year? What is your reasoning?

by Kinnis Gosha on Aug 12, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

ASG has gotten lucky.

They’ve done almost none of this through their own initiative.

by rbubp on Aug 13, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I have issues with 3, 4, and 5

3. I don’t think, rather I don’t know if Shaq upped the price for Atlanta simply because of Atlanta. These were one of the teams Shaq was considering in the first place. If Shaq was coming here with a large role to play of course he’s going to ask for more money. And considering the roster why would he be on the bench if he’s healthy? In the end the Hawks didn’t show Shaq that he would only be complimentary piece for the veterans minimum, they wanted him to be the catalyst for the veterans minimum.

4. So Jason Collins and Josh Powell are better than any draft pick the hawks sold this year? Well, that’s yet to be seen I guess. But that is assuming that the other NBA teams are picking up garbage.

5. The three highest payrolls were also in the conference finals

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Aug 18, 2010 10:49 AM EDT reply actions  

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