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Let's get something straight about Childress.

We lost him a long time ago. People that have been following the Hawks for long enough to watch them play before the Boston series three years ago should have come to grips with this long ago. He made it very obvious that he would never play here again. So the Hawks had no negotiating power.

 

Watch this link at the 2:34 mark if you weren't paying attention or you forgot. It's a youtube video of Childress laughing at the Hawks on PTI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuoK9EFqSbs

I was understood by anyone with a brain that we weren't going to get anything of real value for Childress and his ridiculous afro. So please stop pining for him, it only makes you look ignorant and stupid

A FanPost expresses the opinion of the community member who wrote it and not that of the blog management.

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you calling people ignorant and stupid because they didn’t watch an episode of Pardon The Interruption is ignorant and stupid

by NYCHawksFan on Aug 20, 2010 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

It's not just that

There was plenty of things at the time that made everything I’m saying obvious. I’m here to educate not argue.

The bottom line is I’m right, and anyone that’s been here for long enough already knows this.

Childress gave our team and by extension all of us the finger and you all need to move on

by thirdfALCON on Aug 20, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Been where for long enough?

I have nothing but love for Childress. He was as classy and professional on the court as he was when he left for Greece. If you took his appearance on Pardon The Interruption as him giving you the finger, that’s you. There was nothing in that video that upset me or made me feel like Childress was laughing at the Hawks or its fans. Childress wanted a deal done immediately that summer, and the Hawks were focused on resigning Josh Smith (and it didn’t help that Greece threw more money at him than he would have gotten if he stayed in the NBA). You can blame the Hawks management for us getting nothing out of Childress. He went from a 1st round (6th overall pick), to our garbage man who did everything he was asked to do, to a player who wasn’t important enough to sign immediately, to a possible sign and trade, to leaving for Greece, coming back, and getting traded for a 2nd Round pick from a solid team. That’s gonna be a late 2nd round pick. He’s worth more than that.

by NYCHawksFan on Aug 20, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

He thought he was worth more than the Hawks did, so they told him to go and see what the market would give him. They did the same thing with Smooth that summer.

It was about money, not how fast they could get a contract done. If they had agreed on what his value was then negotiations would have been quick.

I’d go on but your post makes it obvious that you either don’t know how restricted free agency works, or why it’s in the CBA, and I don’t have the patience to explain it to you.

Just know that teams have made MANY qualifying offers to MANY players, and this was the first and only time anyone has opted to go outside the NBA.

You can blame either Childress or the Hawks for it if you want, but no other NBA team was willing to offer him the contract he wanted either. Otherwise the Hawks would have matched, or he’d have been playing for another NBA team for the past few years instead of for Olympicos.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 20, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

And leaving your team in such a position where they can’t get anything close to equal value for you is not my definition of classy. Opportunistic, clever, or savvy sure. You make it sound like the guy is Hank Aaron or something.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 20, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was classy....

and all of the above (opportunistic, savvy, etc.). He didn’t have any leverage because of how restricted free agency works, which is probably why the Hawks weren’t jumping on signing him for more than they thought he was worth. They figured they can take their time with resigning him and if another NBA team offers him a contract, they could always match it if they wanted to. He found a loophole by going overseas, but the Hawks still owned his rights up until they traded those rights for a future 2nd round pick from Phoenix.

If you were in his position, are you telling me you wouldn’t do the same thing?

by NYCHawksFan on Aug 20, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know what I would do in his position

I do know that he turned his back on us, so he can go crawl in a hole and die for all I care.

I’m not going to judge him as a man because I don’t know him. And that’s beside the point anyway.

The point is that people need to stop making dumb posts about what happened with the Childress situation.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 20, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your post...

is the first dumb post I’ve seen about the Childress situation.

by NYCHawksFan on Aug 20, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Way to take the high road.

I’m sure Childress as classy as he is would approve.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 20, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look son...

You’re getting all whiny and emotional like what the Hawks had with Childress was a loving relationship, and Childress cheated on the Hawks with Greece, and broke that loyalty and trust. This is a business. That’s why there are contracts.

So you saying “Childress can go crawl in a hole and die for all you care” is immature, and it sure as hell aint classy, so don’t tell me anything about taking a high road.

If you wanna post something like this, be prepared to defend your statement. Otherwise, why would you post anything in the first place?

You said, “we lost him a long time ago. People that have been following the Hawks for long enough to watch them play before the Boston series three years ago should have come to grips with this long ago.”
-No, we lost Childress a few weeks ago when we traded his rights for a future 2nd Round pick.
-Secondly, you’re implying that unless you’re a bandwagon Hawks fan who only started watching the Hawks when they faced Boston in the playoffs, you would have already known he was gone a long time ago. False. Most of us have been following the Hawks since before you were born. And like I already said, we just traded his rights away a few weeks ago.

If you have an intelligent response, please feel free to respond. Otherwise, you’re just making yourself look foolish by talking down to everyone and avoiding the discussion at hand.

by NYCHawksFan on Aug 20, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

This must be the definition of the pot calling the kettle black.

by waxmonkey on Aug 21, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then that makes you the definition of an outsider that doesn't know what he's talking about.

I never said I was nice. But I haven’t done anything out of line in this thread.

I’m not taking credit for the things I’ve said in this thread. It was all well documented on the Hawks blogosphere, and most people agreed with the take I am presenting on the matter.

Unfortunately it happened three years ago, so many people either weren’t around then, or simply forgot.

Notice how the people arguing with me are just talking about how great of a guy Childress is, and how he’s a hero for sticking it to the man or something?

by thirdfALCON on Aug 22, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

To quote Childress…“Smh”.

by waxmonkey on Aug 23, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

And FYI I didn't watch it either.

The first time I saw that clip was on this very blog.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 20, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

What Childress did was extremely risky

on several fronts.

—Had he gotten injured in Greece and his career would have been absolutely over. Surely he knew that but the tax-free cash he got was worth that risk to him, I assume.

—His reputation could have been (may have been) seriously affected. What he did was not classy by any stretch; no matter how the Hawks treated him, he bolted on the organization in a way that can very seriously affect a lesser player’s next opportunities. To wit: people wouldn’t put up with Brett Favre’s BS if he wasn’t BRETT FAVRE. Anybody want to weigh in on what the Redskins could get for Albert Haynesworth these days? I’m not saying Childress was that much of loose cannon, but his actions were not exactly those of a person dedicated to the development of his team or his own career.

-Childress returned to get exactly the same money the Hawks offered him when he left the first time, so he traded in two years of his NBA life-think about that, now, two years with the opportunity to win titles playing at the top level in the world—so he could play in teensy high school gyms against high school level players. He could have stuck around and really tried to enact a trade or held out, but he took the cash so he could LEAVE the NBA. I think he’s lucky to get the same money, on his return, hoenstly.

by rbubp on Aug 21, 2010 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Accidental strike-through.

by rbubp on Aug 21, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

That classy line gets funnier the more I think about it.

The bottom line is he took the money on the table, rather than play 30+ minutes a night for a playoff-caliber NBA team.

I really didn’t start this post so I could defame the guy, but the Naivete of some people is astounding.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 21, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thing is Josh didn't like the situation. Bottom Line

He didn’t like the way management was dealing with him, financially and personally. He didn’t like how complacent they had become with the amount of free agent moves they had left on the table. And he didn’t like the way his teammates viewed him because of his bench role and how he was given garbage time minutes more times than not. All in all, as much as he was admired in Atlanta for his energy and everything this relationship wouldn’t have worked out because he would’ve been given even less minutes with the amount of wing players we have and the it’s still the same management as before with only a new coach

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 21, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

He wouldn't have been given 30 minutes

The only viable position he would be at is back up SF in front of Mo, so 20 – 25 minutes would be a reasonable estimate

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 21, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions  

He was basically our sixth man, One of the reasons that he gave at the time for leaving was that the Hawks wouldn't let him start over Marvin, but he clearly got starters minutes.

His minutes each year as a hawk beginning with his rookie year; 29.7, 30.4, 36.8, 29.9. That averages out to 31.3 minutes for his career.

He almost certainly would have gotten thirty minutes a night had he stayed, and we probably would have never gotten Crawford. But that’s conjuncture.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 21, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

All I'm saying is if he did sign with the Hawks this season

With the pieces we have, he wouldn’t have gotten more than 20-25 minutes. Especially, Jordan Crawford taking a back-up role at SG. To many mouths to feed IMO and wouldn’t have the same impact to the team. Although he will always be one of my favorite Hawks.

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 21, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was top 5 in mpg each of his seasons with the Hawks too, btw

His reasons for leaving (feel free to add if I miss any).

1. Money
2. Hawks wouldn’t let him in the starting line-up.
3. Money
4. Hawks wouldn’t give him his money fast enough.
5. Money
6. ASG IS TH3 WORSTEST!!!

by thirdfALCON on Aug 21, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

A man’s gotta have more pairs of shoes, is all I’m sayin.’

by rbubp on Aug 21, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Woodson wasn't a big Childress fan.

I would think with a new coach, Josh would have gotten that chance to crack the starting lineup, whether or not he could dethrown Marvin Williams will be lost to the X-Files. LD said himself that every roster spot is open for the taking, and if any back-up was better than the starter he would make the necessary changes

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 21, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Everyone in the league plays for money

It’s their job so they want to get paid. Childress of all people would know how the ASG works so he took his NBA life in his own hands. I know I wouldn’t work If I didn’t get paid for it….then again I assume that’s probably not your point, but I think this Josh Childress post was brought up to tell people to shut up about Josh Childress and your video does not define what your points are.

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Aug 22, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t personally see that he has any relevance to today’s Hawks. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t want you to talk about him. The video is there to remind you of what things were like at the time.

I have a problem with posts that are basically variations of “ASG is bad so it must be 100% their fault that he isn’t here anymore”, because they a just negative BS that’s not informed by anything more than the perspective that everything good the Hawks have done over the past few years is blind luck, and everything bad they have done is a result of incompetence.

That’s some serious weaksauce. Josh isn’t here because Olympiacos offered him a 9 million a year salary, and no one in the NBA would give him more than 6 or 7. There were other reasons sure, but there’s no reason to think that there were any reasons that were as important as that.

Other than that you happen to like Josh Childress and your willing to go through the mental gymnastics that it takes to beleive otherwise. I’m always open to being convinced otherwise, but so far i haven’t heard any compelling arguments. And it’s been three years now.

by thirdfALCON on Aug 22, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally

I don’t think it matters why he isn’t here. My only complaint is what we got for him. I believe we could have gotten a slightly better deal if we had pushed for it, but I have never felt like the ASG really thinks too hard on things. I fully believe that they see $ signs and say “OK!!!” way too soon on some things.

Either way, I agree that there is essentially no pont in crying over it any longer. There’s no telling how his role would have evolved (or devolved I suppose), but I’d be willing to bet that we still would have done the Crawford deal and he would have gotten even less minutes because of Woodson’s inability to properly evaluate talent. He would have been disgruntled and he probably would have left regardless.

As for the money part, I really can’t blame the guy. Trust me, I like where I work, but if some company from overseas offered my three times ( assuming that Childress would have gotten something in the $4-6mil per range) what I am currently making and it would be tax free, not to mention pay for my transportation and housing needs, well you can be sure that I’ll be learning a new language. Blaming Childress for taking the millions offered by Olympiakos over the much less that would have been offered by the Hawks is about as dumb as blaming JJ for taking the $124mil offered by the Hawks this year. Neither player is at fault for doing what is ultimately the best option for any player, take the money.

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 23, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why I disagree about Childress' motivations...

“Trust me, I like where I work, but if some company from overseas offered my three times ( assuming that Childress would have gotten something in the $4-6mil per range) what I am currently making and it would be tax free, not to mention pay for my transportation and housing needs, well you can be sure that I’ll be learning a new language…”

Except, Jesse, that this is a standing offer for almost any decent NBA player and almost none have done it. Why not? Well, competition means something. It’s why LeBron left Cleveland—not because of the money, but because he didn’t think he could win it all there.

1. In your job, Jesse, I’m going to hazard a guess that you do not face (as I also do not) a zero-sum success situation—that your job does not expect, much less require, you to shoot for being the very best in the world in a direct, head-to-head, one wins and all the rest are losers kind of way. in fact, for most of us that kind of competitive clarity is not even remotely possible. Athletes, however, are not only in that kind of world, but in a profession where that kind of clarity is the pinnacle. In fact, often the clarity of winning and losing is what separates the players who can achieve at this level: The amount of preparation, hard work, and practice required is clearly not for many people even when they have the athletic skills. Most don’t even get to the NBA; some, like Kwame Brown, might get to the league because they are good enough but not as good as they “could be” because they lack the competitive drive to constantly get better.

2. You and I can work overseas and come back and still be at the top of our game in our jobs, while many NBA players cannot take the risk of missing out on a title
chance when they are so rare. We get 25-40 years in a career, and they get 6-12.

3. If you’ve got any endorsements at all they might not be there when you get back.
Advertisers go these guys because they are visible.

4. If Olympiakos and the like were the only ones offering “set for life” money that would offset the injury risks and demanding competition, then we would likely see a lot more NBA players going over there. But the money is good here, and the competition—what they play for at least as much as money—is far, far, far better. Nowhere else can a player be the best in the world, or on the best team in the world. They are acculturated to want this and close enough to it to go for it even if it means slightly less money.

I will acknowledge that Josh Childress perhaps just wanted the experience of living overseas while he was young…and perhaps he wanted to be a LeBron-like celebrity over there. But there are a lot of reasons why the vast majority of NBA players do not take the money to do the same. Simply put, it is not worth it for whatever reason, and we have to draw from that that for most NBA players money is not the sole overriding factor in theses kinds of decisions

And we can’t make an easy parallel with what we would do in the same situation because we don’t work in the same kind of environment. It’s not “what anybody would do”—or more of them would do it.

by rbubp on Aug 24, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

First, I never said that money was his motivation, simply that my opinion on that part of the discussion (because it seems to be the one that everyone points too when they give a reason for why he left) is that if it indeed is why, then I don’t blame him.
Secondly, you claim that those kinds of offers happen all the time to NBA players, but I don’t believe it. I’ve never heard of, or read, hundreds of articles claiming that overseas teams were offering ~$15mil per for an NBA player. In fact, I haven’t seen or read about too many since that off-season when Olympiakos offered the big buck to Childress. So, in essence, I don’t believe that many of those max-level contracts are being offered to players every year.

Finally, I completely agree with you that it isn’t all about money and that my situation is not the same as Childress’. However, my point is still valid because absolutely no one was offering Childress the amount of money that Olympiakos was and I refuse to blame any player who makes the decision that taking the money is in the best interest for himself and his family in the long run. I fully believe that Marvin should have stayed in college one more year, but he jumped early so that he could pay for his siblings to go to college and take care of his mom. He made the conscious decision that taking the NBA money was better for his family in the long run than playing an additional year in college. I absolutely can not blame him for that and to the point of the majority of this original post and subsequent comments, no one else should either.

If you want to get mad at Childress for saying something in the media about the Hawks, fine, but to point at the money and claim that he was greedy is just illogical. Also, I never once said that it’s “what anybody would do”, but I’m willing to bet that there are players in the NBA right now who would take that kind of an offer if they could get one. I’m also willing to bet that the reason why more NBA players don’t go overseas is because no one is offering to pay them enough to do so. Do you honestly believe that Olympiakos is going to offer the same kind of money to players of Mario West’s caliber?

Short version – I don’t care that he took the money and I don’t care why it took it. I don’t think that was the reason anyway. So honestly, we are in agreement, I think, on that. Yay for common ground.

"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Aug 24, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Without having any hard evidence, I submit that every NBA starter could secure a deal a lot like this if they wished.

I mean, what made Childress such a special target?…and rumors did fly about Wade and LeBron getting even bigger offers right about the same time Chills left.

I reserve the right to blame Childress for being greedy. In Marvin’s case, he was getting paid nothing and chose to receive a salary, so once again, that’s an apples to oranges comparison. But we agree that Childress was never coming back and everybody knew that…which was a big reason why we didn’t get anything for him. Did he screw the Hawks? Absolutely. Was it deserved? Very possibly.

Should we get over it already? Yeah…even me.

by rbubp on Aug 24, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

If everybody played for nothing BUT money,

a lot more players would have already headed off to Europe for boatloads of tax-free cash. But it is very telling that Childress is the only player in recent memory who did that while having NBA contract offers in hand.

by rbubp on Aug 22, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

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