Josh Smith's value to the team?
by bigdawg9292 on Aug 13, 2010 10:35 PM EDT
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This won't be a really long fanpost but I've heard rumors that the Hawks would be willing to move Josh Smith if the right deal came along. Just curious as to what that deal would have to bring back. Would T.J Ford and his expiring contract, someone taking Mike Bibby back and bringing in Jason Thompson so Al Horford could move to PF be enough, or is he worth more? I'd love to hear from the fans.
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He's worth more than T.J. Ford...
Josh Smith put up All Star numbers last year, he’s always one of the Top 5 candidates for Defensive Player Of The Year, he was the youngest player to reach 500 career blocks and he’s still only 24 years old and hasn’t reached his full potential. Plus, his high flying dunks put fans in the seats. T.J. Ford is lightening quick and he has good court vision, but he’s older than Josh, he isn’t as talented, and I don’t think that would be a fair trade. When the Hawks said they were willing to trade Josh Smith if the right deal came along, I think they were thinking more along the lines of someone like Chris Paul, or another player of his caliber. With Collison getting traded, I don’t see Paul going anywhere until he becomes a Free Agent. I heard the Hawks offered Josh Smith in a trade for Chris Paul, but the Hornets wanted the Hawks to throw in Horford and Crawford, and the Hornets would add Okafor. I’m glad the Hawks declined because that would have been a terrible trade for us, and so would T.J. Ford. I’d rather see what Teague can do this year than to trade away one of our best players for a PG who has averaged 12 PPG and 6 APG over the course of his career for losing teams. I don’t see Josh Smith going anywhere anytime soon, because I doubt many teams would be willing to give up a player of his caliber in a trade, and I don’t think the Hawks would be willing to trade him away for anything less than a proven star.
As for the Bibby and Thompson trade, I don’t see that happening either. Thompson is 24. Bibby is 32. The Kings would never go for it. NBA players tend to lose trade value as they get older, and Bibby is coming off a year where put up career lows in PPG, APG, SPG, BPG and RPG. Yeah, basically almost every statistical category. I know he played less minutes, but not much less. I don’t think Bibby would spark the interest of many teams at this point in his career. All we got for Childress was a 2nd Round pick and a lot of teams were interested in him.
I meant a multi-team deal to bring in Ford and Thompson AND take back Bibby
I feel like that would be pretty fair
by bigdawg9292 on Aug 14, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Disagree...
neither is that caliber of player to be worth it. As said below, replace Thompson with Cousins and Evans, or Ford with Granger, then maybe.
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 14, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Bibby still has value to our team. And I don’t know if Ford can stay healthy walking to get the morning paper much less play a full NBA season.
Thompson could go a long way to solve our rebounding problems but he’s not the defender that Josh is. Pus I don’t think this trade would put us that far under the cap. So the players we are getting would have to be different.
That would be tough to pass up
I’m not sure if we’d have to throw someone else into the deal to make the numbers work, but I can say that we would be a significantly worse team next year if we make that trade. I think a lot of people (possibly including the Hawks organization) wouldn’t like it.
If we could capitalize on the cap space and the draft pick it would be worth it in the long run imo. It would feel like hitting the reset button and taking a few years worth of steps back, however.
One thing to think about is that with the CBA coming up it’s tough to gage how much cap space is going to be worth, or if it even exists as a concept past this year.
I wish I knew why Joe Johnson was given $120 million this summer though
He’s a valuable piece but not for that much and I’m not sure how much further he can lead the Hawks.
It’s because we would have been a much worse team without him, and the Hawks weren’t willing to take a step back this year for cap space in the future.
basically they would be looking at an empty arena and getting trashed in the local media had they let him go.
Still
That doesn’t justify $120mil when they could have accomplished the exact same thing at $105-110mil.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
I'd take 75 cents to a doller if it meant shipping out a bad contract.
Much as I like Smooth, he is a bit of a headcase. I just don’t see him playing out his whole career here.
So if we could get some financial relief by shipping out a bad contract like Zaza’s or Marvin’s, I’d do it. The package of guys coming back would have to be able to do a reasonable job replacing whatever we gave up though.
I don’t know if your underrating Deron Williams, or overrating Josh Smith, but your crazy if you wouldn’t take that trade straight up. Granger for Josh is probably a wash, but only because we don’t really need more scoring.
How about Beno Udrih and Samuel Dalembert for Josh Smith and Mike Bibby?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=236fplz
This would give a strong, defensive minded banger down low (and elite blocker to replace Smith) so Horford can comfortably move to four, and upgrade to a better and improving point guard as opposed to a declining one, all for about the same money. Dalembert’s contract would also give you some flexibility in 2012 to match a front-loaded offer sheet for Horford if you need to.
Jesus you guys
What is up with all these Pacer trade ideas? Either you guys (Pacer Fans) really want Josh Smith or their are some undercover Pacer fans posing as Hawks fans trying too do some incognito mission to mess with our guys.
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 15, 2010 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm just not sure how much further this nucleus can go.
It seems like the Hawks need another legit big guy inside to go with Horford and that Mike Bibby can’t be point guard on a championship team. Joe Johnson’s contract doesn’t help things and if Horford is to be resigned, there doesn’t seem to be the money to get more pieces. Seeing as Smith seems to have the most value and play the same position as Horford (ideally) moving him for a young center and flexibility seems to be the best option to avoid stagnantation.
by bigdawg9292 on Aug 15, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Just cause trade machine says it works doesn't make it so...
The Hawks are giving up the two best players in that deal. Not no but are you freakin crazy no!
Improved starting lineups all around is what makes it a good deal, not whether or not the trade machine calculates that the contracts legally work.
As far as the best two players in the trade being Smith and Bibby, you’re obviously insane. Smith is the one best player, but Bibby is the one worst player. You don’t need PERs to see that, but If you do average the two PERs from the Hawks and from the Kings, the trade is remarkably even between the three teams (all within one point) – not something you rarely see.
More importantly, if Horford is moving to PF, as that earlier article implied, then you have two highly talented, highly paid players looking for the same position and minutes – with a desperate need for a quality point guard and center. You can hold out hope that Chris Paul and Dwight Howard will ask to be released by their teams to sign with the Hawks if you like, or you can take a hard look at your situation and see what best you can make of it.
I'd rather have Bibby than Udrih or Dalembert
and while I understand the team isn’t likely to surpass Orlando or Miami, what you offered doesn’t make the team better. I said above, for Smoove, the return must be all star caliber at PG or C. Try Bibby and Josh Smith for Robin Lopez and Steve Nash. You scoff, but that’s the package it’d take to get the young talent at PF. The front office isn’t fond of trades and would be very difficult to deal with. Unless the return is Chris Paul or another dynamic difference maker, it’s not gonna happen.
Your not really readin the situation here at all.
I’m guessing your a Phoenix fan? Throw in some draft picks and find a way to take Zaza or Marvin of our hands and maybe we could talk. Trading Josh would have to set us up for the longterm, and this is basically giving us Udrih and a small amount of cap space. We’d need more of it, and draft picks.
Of course I am.
I recognize the need for cap space. ASG is going need to either drop players or go into the luxury tax next year to hold on to Horford. The nice thing about Dalembert is that he gives you mobility, since he’s a large expiring. If he works out and resigns for less money (which he should), then the money is available for Horford. If he doesn’t, you can still afford Horford and have some cash left to search for a cheaper center.
I understand wanting to move Zaza , but you really want to drop Marvin Williams? Who do you want to start instead?
Both of those players are improvements.
Unless you’d rather take Bibby over Udrih, and Pachulia over Dalembert?
In that case, you might be looking through rose-colored classes.
Dalembert is a freaking moron and Udrih is mediocre and never going to be better than he is now
Josh Smith might be our best player. We would be giving yup the best player in the deal for Udih and less than a million in cap space. That would be asinine.
by thirdfALCON on Aug 15, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, you're generally alone in those opinions of Dalembert and Udrih.
Dalembert is considered a good center (waaaay better than Zaza), and an excellent defensive center, and conventional wisdom (and the numbers) say that Udrih is continuing improving, and is already better than Bibby.
If Smith is the Hawks best player, will he be starting him Horford when he moves to PF? Or will Smith just be an extremely expensive (and skilled) backup? The Hawks have two good PFs, two good SGs, one acceptable SF (with potential to improve), and no PG and C to speak of. It seems that moving one of the “extra” PFs or SGs for a PG or C (or both) is in the Hawks best interest.
If you prefer to trade for someone better, I understand that. Wouldn’t we all? But I bet that’d be hard to find.
Horford isn't moving to PF full time
Read the article at least if you are going to cite it in your arguments.
Maybe I’m being a little tough on Udrih, but he’s not going to get that much better at age 28, and Dalembert has been know as a cancer at every and a space cadet at every team he’s played at.
We’d be much better off just keeping Josh.
I think Horford strongly wants to move to a full time PF.
And it might be a good idea to give him what he wants with RFA quickly approaching. Besides, he’d kick ass even more at PF.
As for Udrih and Dalembert, we’ll just have to disagree. But I know what it’s like to be a homer too, so nothing personal.
Horford is our C, not Zaza....
And Dalembert is worse than him. Just because he’s more of a C (and not considered a good one; he’s considered one dimensional and inconsistent) and Smoove and Horford are natural PFs, adding him makes the frontcourt worse if he replaces Smoove no matter how it’s configured position wise.
And Udrih had one good year. He’s a borderline starter, costs more than Bibby, and has that extra year of a player option.
It’s not so much “prefer to trade for someone better”, it’s prefer a trade that doesn’t make the team worse. And Udrih/Dalembert for Smith/Bibby makes the team much worse.
Why is Zaza to Dalembert?...
It’d be Dalembert to Smoove, and that is a massive downgrade. And yes, an argument can be made for Bibby over Udrih. Udrih has turnover problems, isn’t a great shooter or defender. He doesn’t bring much you can’t find for cheap in free agency, so you’re offering two crap players for one overage vet and an All NBA caliber talent (he doesn’t play at that level consistently, but when he’s on Smoove is a top 10-20 player in the league).
Because it's positional upgrade with the assumption that Horford is moving to play more PF, as your article suggested.
Which would mean Horford starts and the four, Smith backs up the four, and Zaza at the five, unless you find a better center.
As far as Bibby/Udrih argument, it’s not a good one. But hey, to each his own.
I've never suggested any such thing...
starting Zaza over Smoove would be a starting in name only type deal and never gonna happen anyway. It’s not hard to figure which one will get 30-35+ minutes and who will be around 20.
And whether Udrih’s better than Bibby or not, he’s still not worth his contract, which includes a player option for 2012. It’s a useless trade that doesn’t make the team better, and if you think it does, then yeah, “to each his own”.
Are you crazy?
The upgrade we get from Udrih for Bibby is not that big. The downgrade from get for Dalembert/5 million dollar free agent is huge. How does that make us a better team?
by thirdfALCON on Aug 15, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Beno Udrih's a 37 percent three point shooter
and a 49 percent shooter overall plus his usage is much higher than Bibby’s. Let’s face it Bibby is on the way out and a lot of people here wanted teague to get some time a PG. Not to mention all the “bibby defense” hate that’s been spewed over the years. And I say all this to say I would trade Bibby for Udrih straight up 100% but not the Smith/Dalembert
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
We would have to get at least one good young guy and your trade didn't even work.
We aren’t just giving him away for cap space. Bibby’s contract isn’t even that bad. Zaza’s and Marvin’s are much worse at this point
by thirdfALCON on Aug 15, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The trade does work after tomorrow.
Yeah, I understand about Zaza, and (for his performance so far) Marvin. Seems like Marvin’s still got room to grow though.
I’d also understand wanting youth. But it’s really hard to find youth and talent together in a single package that someone is actually willing to trade.
Ok
So after this trade our starting lineup would be Udrih, Joe, Marvin, Horford, and Dalembert. Not really a better team next year considering all the things Josh does for us.
And after Dalembert’s contract expires we would have less than 5 million in cap space. Not enough to replace Josh long term. So how does this trade make us better than just keeping Josh? we aren’t just going to give him away.
It’s pretty obvious that you don’t know much about the hawks, and just want to find a way to get Smith on the Suns.
I know more about the Hawks than most fans of a different team. I really like the Hawks, and root for them whenever they're not playing the Suns (what, 80 games a year?)
This fact does nothing to affect the legitimacy of my argument.
Remember, I’m assuming that Horford will generally be moved to PF, and Zaza will be in your starting five.
Udrih, Joe, Marvin, Horford and Dalembert
vs
Bibby, Joe, Marvin, Horford and Zaza. (with a great backup PF in Smith and Horford splitting some time with Zaza at C in order to get Smith more than 13m/game)
If you think that won’t happen, you might be right, but it risks Horford being more inclined to take the qualifying offer next year and walk the following. No Hawks fan wants that.
We all love Josh and he certainly does a lot of things for the Hawks. But the hard question is – is it really in the Hawk’s best long term interests to have two starting caliber (and highly paid) power forwards on the same team when pieces are missing at other positions?
If so, hey I understand why you wouldn’t want to move him for anything less than an all-star level piece that also fills a need.
If not, the five million goes to replacing Dalembert with draft/FA, or more likely resigning Dalembert with non-bird rights to a max of $14.64m/year (which is obviously way too much, but the point is can be resigned to whatever), and a 13 min/game backup PF is found another way.
By the way, I’m not here to insult Hawks fans or players. We’re all basketball fans. I found a trade that seemed to benefit all three teams and wanted to share it with Peachtree.
These two lines disagree with each other...
I know more about the Hawks than most fans of a different team
.
and
Remember, I’m assuming that Horford will generally be moved to PF, and Zaza will be in your starting five
It is that assumption that affects “the legitimacy of my argument.” Because Zaza is not starting over Josh. He’s just not, and you can not find anything anywhere that would even suggest such stupidty. That Horford will play more at the 4 is a completely different statement than Zaza starts over Josh Smith.
If Horford starts at the four
as much as I’ve seen you push for it, Josh Smith is not starting at the five.
If the difference is that Horford starts at the five, then plays the majority of his minutes at the four, then we’re still in the same position. If instead you think that Horford will only play some time at four, and still most of his time at five, then I already addressed that as well.
And my point about being more familiar with the Hawks than most fans of other basketball teams (who aren’t primary Hawks fans) stands, regardless of your disagreement with and personal dislike of me.
It's not personal...
it’s just you seem to be a one trick pony, and it’s a tiresome trick (unreasonable trades to make Josh Smith a Sun).
And I guess there’s a big reading comprehension failure, because if you’ve seen me push for Horford to play more 4, you must have missed that included the idea of Smoove working to increase strength and sliding to the 5. I’ve never once suggest Josh Smith isn’t starting on any basketball team he’s playing for, because he will be.
No, I read well.
And I read members of this forum ridicule your “Smith is as good at five as Horford is ‘cause he’s the same size and just needs to bulk up” posts, though I personally didn’t join in the fray.
I have responded in a thread discussing what could be received in a Josh Smith trade. It’s not out of place. I have never started a thread on that (or any other) subject. Just because you don’t like me for pointing out your “reading comprehension” problems in a different thread three weeks ago doesn’t mean you need to be rude to me every time I post about Josh Smith. If you don’t want to have these conversations with me about Smith, then feel free not to respond to my suggestions.
I’ve also posted about the ASG’s luxury tax issues and how it effects Al Horford and Jamal Crawford. Only recently have I discussed possible moves for Smith, and even then only when responding to other people’s discussions. All the while I’ve listened to your various insults, and refrained from replying in kind.
If you think that was what my posts said...
then you have completely missed what it was saying. And what do the ones who disagreed with the idea have to do with anything, when plenty agreed as well.
Bottom line...
Horford’s better at the 4 and the Hawks need a legitimate center (not Josh Smith who’s better at the 4 or even 3 than center.) waxmonkey’s trade isn’t the answer; Udrih’s not that good and neither is Dalembert, but it’s asinine to say that playing Smith at center for extended time would make things any better. Why not just bench Marvin Williams?
I don’t know what degree this will affect the new offense, but the old one needed shooters to space things out.
I’m guessing the new one will need that two since I’ve rarely seen a team that didn’t need shooters. But that’s a huge issue with moving smith to the three. Also it may in courage him to take those shots.
by thirdfALCON on Aug 15, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
which is why the Hawks would probably be better off trying to trade Smith for a viable center rather than continue to play Horford out of position. They seem pretty committed to Horford but I’m not sure how far they can get with both of them.
by bigdawg9292 on Aug 15, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
EXACTLY...
He is a 4, not a 3 or 5… Its not just one article or how Wax Monkey interpreted an article, there has been a lot of talk lately how Horford prefers the 4 and wants to play there. This means that ATL would either move Smith to a reserve role (not likely), or move him to the 3 (not likely), and Zaza would be the one taking the extra minutes at the 5 that Horford gives up (starting or not is not in argument here, its minutes). SO the question is, what does ATL do? Keep Smith or Horford or both? It doesn’t seem like the pieces are all in place for a championship team as of yet, so who do you go with as your second max player if you move one to get other pieces? It seems Horford is the guy, so therefore you would need to move Smith. Smith will not get you a CP3 or Deron Williams, but getting a TPE and a draft pick could be even better. As many teams have shown, getting yourself “flexibility” is sometimes better than getting even value. Therefore I agree with Wax Monkey on some degree, but disagree with Udrih in that his contract does not give the team MORE flexibility, actually less. Dalembert would be the answer (used loosely) at 5, and would need to be resigned for it to make sense, so he doesn’t provide flexibility… but a high draft pick on top of it all could put the Hawks in a great position if they could get a potential stud PG out of the draft. Even a TPE can be viewed as valuable in many aspects, especially when teams are shedding salary at the deadline and the Hawks always seem to have a lingering need that never seems to get fulfilled… I’m a Suns fan, but have taken interest in the Hawks ever since JJ made his way to you, and I would love to see ATL take down the South Beach Bums, so its more a matter what makes ATL better (maybe not immediately, but by next year), not just “how can we ship SMith to Phx without giving up anything”… for it to even be discussed we would be giving up J-Rich who was more valuable to the Suns than anyone come playoff time… Basically, I’m not for giving him up, so that puts us out of the running (unless we are out of the playoff race come trade deadline, then that’s another story)…
what are you going to do with Earl Clark
not giving up Josh for him….but I might consider Marvin for him..and some additional parts (cash, draft pick)
The Suns are overloaded on small forwards as it is.
Right now Clark is going to camp at the end of the bench with Gani Lawal and Matt Jennings and pick up throw away minutes.
He has a lot of potential, but so far hasn’t much lived up to it. He takes too many jump shots probably because he often seems to not know what to do next in his offense, and there’s questions about his drive to succeed.
However, he does have raw talents similar to (but not the level of) a rookie Kevin Durant, and if he gets his act together, should provide some excellent athleticism, defense and mismatches.
Yeah dude Josh Smith would really be perfect for you guys.
Too bad you can’t have him. Maybe you should have drafted someone like him with the 2 first rounders we gave you
Yeah he would be perfect if he learned to shoot. As it is, he's just really good.
Too bad you don’t get to decide, or else I’d have to take your denial seriously.
Really?
I’m pretty sure your the one making dubious trades that get him on my team. But your saying that was me?
Ok, that’s cool I must be doing that because I’m in denial about how good he is.
Your wit is on par with your trade machine skills.
by thirdfALCON on Aug 18, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
What?
I’m pretty sure your the one making dubious trades that get him on my team. But your saying that was me?
…what?
I suggested a trade that put him on the Suns. No, I didn’t say that you made a trade that would move Josh Smith to the Hawks.
Ok, that’s cool I must be doing that because I’m in denial about how good he is.
…what?
I didn’t say that either. We have agreed in this thread that he is outstanding. If you feel like debating whether or not an improved jump shot would help his game, then feel free.
Your wit is on par with your trade machine skills.
Now that makes sense.
It certainly is. It’s not that easy to set up three team trade that matches salaries, covers positional interests without creating positional holes, and leaves an average PER difference of less than one point between all three teams. Your respect is flattering.
This is probably one of the longest reply threads
I’ve seen in a long time
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 18, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude it was sarcasm I really don't understand how you could not get that.
If your trying to troll me by playing dumb please find something better to do with your time. At no point has this even been funny to anyone.
by thirdfALCON on Aug 18, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, hear me out
I am a nuggets fan with a incredibly logical and reasonable trade to propose.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29p9a2d
Atl receives:
Nene, scrubs to make the salary match. These guys can be cut.
Den receives:
J Smoove, Pachulia
Why Atl does it- they cut the contract of Zaza and get a guy capable of playing C, so horford can switch to PF.
Why Den does it- They get a younger, better version of Kmart and Zaza as a backup. Josh smith is a better player than Nene, although only slightly, but they have the same value in a trade because Smith is a small guy.
This is better because I'd rather have Nene than Udrih, or Dalembert
It need a least a good young player and a high draft pick to be a sure thing. Only one of those things and it’s very borderline. Nene is not “slightly” worse than Josh.
Plus his career Rebound rate is 13.2. We need a center that can’t rebound like we need a hole in our head.He’s a nice second player, but he can’t be the primary.
by thirdfALCON on Aug 18, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Nene is the best the hawks can get
A straight-up Nene for Smith would happen if it were offered by the nuggets. You are not the hawks GM, and they are better for it, lol.
He is one of the best post defenders in the league, so defensively the hawks would have the best post defending frontcourt in the NBA. see this link for what I am talking about. http://www.raptorblog.com/100422b.php
Dont diss nene. He had 0.188 WS/48 last year. Josh Smith, who is supposedly more than “slightly” better had 0.155 WS/48. Nene had less pt compared to josh smith, and yet, his output is only 1 reb and 1 point short of Josh’s. Josh Smith shoots 10% less from the stripe, 8 less from the floor and his TS% was only 100 points less. Nene’s ORTG was 124, one of the best in the NBA. He turns it over less than smith and he is big enough to play C! Do you really think that Horford’s switch to PF would make up for the lost stats of josh smith and then some? No team defended Dwight howard better than the Nuggets, that is because of, you guessed it, Nene.
Dont say something if you dont know what you are talking about.
I'm not dissing him, he's a good player.
But we already have one of the best defensive frontcourts in the NBA. Our weakness are perimeter defense, rebounding, and dominant centers of which there are one in the league (hint he doesn’t play in Denver).
Everything Nene does Josh can do about as well, and he does many things that Nene can’t do.
Aside from that Nene has as much if not more baggage than Josh, including a history of injuries albeit not recently. Also Nene is three years older than Josh. There’s no compelling reason for the Hawks to trade Smith straight up for Nene. We’re not getting better for doing it.
This isn’t what could the hawks get for josh in a fire sale. It’s what would be fair value.
if your a fan of another team, ask yourself; “Would I be happy if my team made this trade.” If the answer is yes, then it’s probably a bad move for the other team.
by thirdfALCON on Aug 19, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Hell, I'd be happy if I were a Hawks fan
Size is a big deal in the NBA. 5 of the last 7 NBA champs were using a dual center setup, that is the Spurs and Lakers. Not sure about baggage, Nene had cancer once, but since has been quite healthy. I think the Hawks would be better off as a bigger team. If the Hawks had a pass first PG, they would be really good though. Right now, I dont think Bibby is really helping. I am sorry to remind you guys, but if the hawks had chosen D-will, they would be NBA champs right now.
QUALITY SIZE, not simple size...
Bynum and Gasol are two highly skilled 7’ers. Those Robinson and Duncan Spurs were the same. Nene isn’t 7’, and isn’t as skilled as any of those 4. Maybe Bynum, but not near the other three.
And teams don’t trade players like those 4, so it’s really a non-option
If Nene was a sure thing healthwise, this would be a different debate, but he’s not, so Smith has much higher value.
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 20, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
If they were to move him
They wouldn’t get much for him. Unless you move someone else like Bibby with him, they will not get anything but a big man b/c we have enough wings and guards. With that being said, MC at the AJC made a good point, Teauge has to earn Bibby’s spot and Bibby is still valuable setting up the offense and being a spot up shooter. So he is not going anywhere. The ASG got that trade exception for J-Chill so they can trade away money and not take as much back. Don’t be surprised, if he is traded, that it is for inferior talent, but for a servicable probably pretty good big man like some mentioned above, solely for Al to play the 4. This I am all for because I believe Horf at the 4 is at least 17 pts. 10 reb per night if not more. LD will play him with Zaza more often this year b/c he knows it too.
"Opposition in my face, trying to play the fence, I'm bigger than this dude, this don't make no sense, I Air Jordan on 'em". - K-Drama
by Sterling Platinum on Aug 14, 2010 6:50 PM EDT reply actions
With all the low ball contracts that went out this summer
I don’t see why we wouldn’t get a lot for him.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
My two cents...
First, you don’t trade the 2nd best PF in the East last year for TJ Ford, Jason Thompson, and 3 first round draft picks. We are not in the luxury with no chance of winning, so we won’t give away our players like that.
Second, if the sorry Pacers don’t want TJ ford why would we? I still haven’t figured out why people on the Hawks blog want to blow the team up after we have done so well the last 4 years with the same core.
Third, Al is an All Star Center. The only other center I can see the Hawks trading for is Chris Kamen because he is an All Star Center (if we was on a winning team).
Last, we don’t even know what players to trade for yet until the season starts. Let’s see LD’s offense and defense before we do a fire sale for all of our players.
this is what will probably happen
The first 10 -20 games will be evaluated to see if the hawks have improved since last year. If we are .500 expect a trade. If we are winning our division or are at least second place expect nothing until the trade deadline
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
resigning your current players doesn't make you better
The Hawks have not added any of the pieces they need… if you don’t get it done in the playoffs year after year, then you have to add pieces. The Suns are a perennial playoff team but haven’t been able to get it done. We lost a stud but have made a ton of moves to try and get better. If we got Amare back, I still expected moves to be made (albeit not a complete roster shakeup) in order to get us “over the hump”. Unless ATL gets a surprise performance from a rookie this year I do not see how they matchup any better against the powers of the East. No doubt you guys make the playoffs again this year, most likely with home court in the first round, but I am not seeing how you matchup against Boston or Orlando better than last year… ANd now you have Miami to worry about too, so unless JJ earns that 120 million by performing like a beast in the playoffs, I just think you need to spread the talent out a bit. You have arguably two of the best “big men” in the league, but they both are best at the 4. Why not get yourself a serviceable 5, and a nice prospect PG for Smith (there are a handful of good PGs that came in the league last year)… Nene and Lawson come to mind as a great scenario of young PG, serviceable 5 and expiring deal, but I haven’t checked if that is even a possible scenario, just throwing out names to show that there’s more than TJ Ford and Udrih and Dalembert… Hey even Carmelo seems to possibly be a trade possibility, though I don’t think he fills a need…
Carmelo > Williams
So he definitely fills a need. Marvin is the only true SF we have on the roster and he hasn’t exactly been knocking the socks off it lately. If I had to have only one then I would choose Carmelo over Williams every time.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
true...
anytime you can upgrade a position you have bettered your roster, but I was more referring to needs as in what the team needs to get over the hump… Obviously you have a stud center , but he wants to play the 4 (so we hear), and a stud 4 (that everyone wants to take away from you)… I see the 1 being your biggest issue, but I could be wrong, I’m an outsider looking in…
We'd agree...
Marvin isn’t bad as a complimentary SF, although it’d be nice if a former #2 pick took on a larger role. But PG and C are the two main question marks on the team. An improvement at SF (either starting or backup) would be a welcome thing, but the primary problems are PG (where Bibby is getting too old and slowed down, and Teague may or may not be a quality player) and C (where Horford is an All Star, the question remains if he and Josh Smith are truly a championsip capable front line, and in the least a good backup that can rotate with those two would be a welcome addition since Zaza is more a 2nd or 3rd big off the bench than a 1st one off the bench for a championship caliber team).
I don't think so.
Offensively yes, Carmelo is leaps and bounds over Marvin. But Marvin is an underrated defensive player, a commodity that not too many teams have, and we already have alot offensive minded players on this team. So how exactly is it going to work with one more mouth to feed. Carmelo has no defensive ability at all and could become quite a liability too when guarding other SF. In this league you can’t out shoot your opponents because your bound to get cold.
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Aug 19, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to get Carmelo for Josh, but I think we’d have to send more to Denver. Carmelo would be the best player on our team. That’s the kind of talent that we need.
Even if he doesn’t solve any of our weaknesses, Marvin and Josh for Carmelo would be a no-brainer.
Aside from that you would have to look really hard at Lawson and Nene for Josh. Picks and expiring on top of that would be gravy.
I'm not so sure about that
DRtg #’s by year per player:
Williams 112, 110, 110, 108, 107 (Career 109)
Anthony 105, 107, 108, 108, 107, 107, 109 (Career 107)
Anthony has been the better defender by the numbers. Even if you wanted to call it even, the huge gains from the offensive side alone would be enough to justify taking Anthony over Williams. It would force teams to not double JJ also.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Hi guys Bobcat fan here
I was wondering if there was any chance that you guys see of Josh Smith being traded to the Bobcats. Like if there was any trade that could go down that doesnt involve Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson?
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