Welcome Back J-J-J-J Joe Johnson
by Kris Willis on Jul 5, 2010 10:43 AM EDT
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PrintSo it appears that all of the recruiting and posturing that has been going on is now finished as far as Joe Johnson is concerned. Word is that he has now accepted the Hawks six year max offer for reportedly around 120 Million Dollars.
Whether it is the right move or the wrong move is still yet to be determined. The only thing that is for certain is that this story will have a sequel. There will be another chapter to the Joe Johnson era.
Joe Johnson came to the Hawks in 2005 and his signing and completed trade nearly tore the Hawks ownership apart. He has overseen a team grow from 26 wins in his first year all the way to 53 wins last season bowing out rather unceremoniously in the second round of the playoffs. He is a four time NBA All Star and has been the mantle piece for the franchise ever since his arrival.
More after the jump
It was that rather lopsided playoff loss to the Orlando Magic that had many Hawks fans saying that this group as configured had hit it's ceiling. That a Joe Johnson led team wasn't going to be able to lead the Hawks out of the second round of the playoffs. Hawks management didn't seem to agree and wasted no time if offering Johnson a max offer as soon as free agency opened. A Sports Illustrated article by Ian Thomsen says that the Hawks would have destroyed all of their momentum that they have built up over the last few seasons had they lost Johnson to another team. Critics will say that good franchises can retool without missing a beat.
Maybe this decision to retain Johnson would have been met more positively if not for those pesky critical comments that Johnson made following a Game 3 loss to the Magic. Lets keep in perspective that Johnson made those comments in a bout of frustration for a game plan that wasn't working and wasn't going to work. While it is true that Joe reaped the benefits of Mike Woodson's iso heavy system he also shouldered the burden when teams simply were not going to allow him to beat them. That was never more on display than in this year's playoffs. However, that crutch is long gone as Woodson was let go following the season and new coach Larry Drew has promised not to lean on Johnson as much. That will call for Johnson to adjust his game.
If I could give Joe Johnson any advice it would be to get ready. The offense might not be iso Joe driven anymore but the pressure is still squarely on his shoulders. No matter if the Atlanta Hawks bring in more players that are capable, this signing cements the fact that the face of the franchise is Joe Johnson. Joe has to be ready to meet the challenge head on. Much of the criticism surrounding his contract was made because of statistics showing that perimeter players tend to drop off in production in their early thirties. Joe is 29 years old and has to make sure that he is the exception to that rule.
He is going to have to let go of some of that stubbornness that we have seen over the years and is going to have to adapt his game as he gets older. Can he do it? Joe has been an overachiever his whole life but as a Hawks fan this is what we now get to see play out over the next six years. Those critical comments aside, Joe has carried himself as you would want your face of the franchise. He is a quiet leader and a silent assassin. He just must understand that there is no hiding from six years, 120 Million.
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I really hope we start playing as a team under Drew.
I was sick of seeing our team play selfishly and without chemistry last season. It would be nice to see us run an actual offense and revive Bibby, get Teague going, and actually work for good shots.
Running Joe off of more screens would be a nice start.
Not sure if that's next...
but one of the starting Fs almost has to move to retool, if that is the plan instead of a straight addition (which costs a lot counting luxury tax and all).
Oh, and it’s since, not sense above Kris. Sorry to be that guy, but sense = kind of mental understanding, since = a time or causal relationship.
Couple other things, …
“A Sports Illustrated article by Ian Thomsen says that the Hawks would have destroyed all of their momentum that they have built up over the last few seasons had they lost Johnson to another team. Critics will say that good franchises can retool without missing a beat”.
These things aren’t exactly mutually exclusive and could both be accurate statements depending on if you consider the Hawsk a “good” or well run franchise, which I think many do not. That understanding makes it a lot harder on the keep or let Joe walk idea, if you think the crap ownership/management would be incapable of adequately replacing Joe on a reconstructed roster.
I also can’t disagree with Joe on taking the fans to task. The Hawks don’t have very supportive fans. They have been horrible with attendance, even as things improved and the team became more entertaining and exciting to watch. The only time fans did seem to come out would be when Kobe, Lebron, etc were in town, which means the extra attendees are as much or more Kobe, Lebron etc fans than Hawks fans, which can probably be quite frustrating for the home team. Basically, all things considered, I don’t fault Joe for blasting the local support, and actually would be in agreement with his thoughts.
Thanks for the grammar lesson
I have been known to make typing error from time to time. Glad to know Mr. S is there to point them out.
Now a couple of things:
My point in the above post is for you to decide whether the Hawks have in your words a “crap” ownership/management or whether they did exactly as they should have. Myself as I have stated, I think this move is useless without another exceptional move to follow it up. I have no idea what that might be but several have been suggested.
I don’t disagree with Joe taking the fans to task either when taken in context. MC pointed out that Joe usually takes some time to gather himself before speaking to the media and didn’t in this instance.
Now I wasn’t around here and I don’t think I need to doubt your word but if I looked it up would your comments really back Joe up back when it happened or have you just now changed your tune since we he accepted the offer?
Thanks for the English lesson.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
I hate doing it, but how else is someone gonna learn?...
at least this way the correction is between friends and not said in spite or to make the other look bad. And enough with the Mr. S business, you can call me Tiberius.
On Joe calling out the fans, didn’t matter to me. Out of town and other reasons make me one of those poorly supporting fans considering I’ve been to one game since he arrived, and even then I didn’t pay for the ticket but got a media pass essentially to see an old friend on the opposing roster. I can’t recall my comments, if there were any, but I think they were similar in that considering the fan base’s problematic support, Joe has all right to call them out.
And personally, I’d vote for crap management. Keep a lame duck Woody? the origianl Joe rift somehow leads to support for a much larger contract when he’d likely be less productive? The lack of respect to Smoove or Chill as restricted FAs? Drafting a college backup at a position we had covered instead of one of two potentially elite players at a position of significant need, or most importantly in my mind, the tight roster restriction to the league minimum and filling those back end spots with Mario, Gardner, RandMo, etc, all due respect to them, instead of legitimate rotation worthy players. Yeah, I don’t trust the ASG to actually make the moves necessary in improving this roster, be it a straight signing of legit front court depth (Haywood, Haslem, Shaq, Ty Thomas, Craig Smith, Al Harrington, Travis Outlaw, among others) or making a good trade involving Chill, Marvin, or Smoove, or a combination of both. To be honest, I expect the current roster in tact, with minimal additions at the end of the bench perhaps including the return of Collins, RandMo and West.
Correction...
Terry Stotts was the coach of that game, so I’ve been to exactly 0 since Joe’s arrival. Geography and economics as the primary cause, but still I’m a bad fan.
No kidding...
weak front court depth as a recipe for repeated failure in the post season, plus the potential of pissing off Al and harming the chance of resigning him. We need to add at least one of 7 I mention above imo, if not two, if that’s all they’re looking to do as far as signing a mid level veteran for SF/PF/C. But we can’t let the potential value of Chill go to waste, either by having him on a one year tender and moving Marvin, or using him in a sign and trade (I’d be ecstatic if he brought back Jevale McGee, a little less so for Deandre Jordan but he might be the more realistic possibility of the two). So there’s that need to get a return for one of those two SFs, and then the big question of Smoove—can he finally develop into a consistent player? Is he the primary problem in the locker room? Is he the ideal frontcourt partner for Al? etc. Without resolving the issues of Smoove and Marvin/Chill, resigning Joe is a treading water move instead of going for a ring.
I would like to see jj trust his teammates more with the ball
This could work out if drew does what he says he would as far as the game plan.
IF YOU CANT ACCEPT LOSING, YOU CANT WIN.
by Hawksgirl on Jul 5, 2010 11:29 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Grammatical battles, please leave me out of it because I will have more than a few marks and what no part of it.
Now the only burden Joe experienced was not passing the ball out of double teams and not taking Woodson to task for continuously working him to hard. Any affect that has on Joe’s body is his fault because it clearly hasn’t hurt his wallet.
Josh and Jamal Crawford for Chris Paul and Emeka Okafor works and that would definitely help.
I looked at the Carmelo anthony trade and according to PER per ESPN both teams stand to loose more games with any trade coming from there even one that included J.R. Smith.
The Chris Paul plus three
So if that's the deal, we'd still need help in front court depth...
Paul Teague Bibby
Joe Bibby? Mo/Jordan Crawford
Marvin Mo
Al Zaza
Okafor Zaza
Yeah, Bibby would need to be moved, and we’d need to improve the backups at SF, PF and C.
you are absolutely right. I mean it just gives us a legit pg. and a center to slide Al. then we get to moving on some centers an MLE for Brendan Haywood if he would take it.
Or see if Chill can bring back McGee or Jordan as backup C...
trade Bibby for a SF or PF, then sign another F with the MLE. I’d like that.
We really need that situation in NO to fall apart
The rumblings are starting about Paul wanting a team around him. Paul may not demand a trade, but if they do really start shopping him, the Hawks need to be at the front of the line.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Agreed....
but I don’t think that’s the only move to make. I’d be fine with Chill for one of the Cs I’ve mentioned, or something else around Marvin or Smoove. There are more ways to improve the team than just Paul (who would force a Bibby departure somehow), kind of like there was more ways to stay a playoff team than keeping Joe.
Not saying we shouldn’t add Paul if possible, but we shouldn’t have tunnel vision with that as the only potential move.
I'd like him to finally apologize
for those playoff comments so we can all move on and just be uneasy about contract numbers.
Can anyone with an Insider account on ESPN.com tell me what
Hollinger said about the deal?
I think it’s time to trade someone for a Center… a legit Center… don’t care who it is. Just needs to be a legitimate Dwight Howard stopper/competitor.
Joe is a Beast
Al is a Beast
Smoove is a MONSTER!
A Dwight Howard Stopper?
That’s only a few guys in the league. Anyone we could get would just be a Dwight Howard fouler.
There aren't any Dwight stoppers
There’s a reason he’s the best center in the league
SWING AND A DRIVE, BELTED RIGHT…..and McCann makes the catch by the dugout.
by Hudson's Soul Patch on Jul 5, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Perkins sort of...
The real Dwight stopper, though, is Yao Ming.
Al Horford is not feeling all of this attention to Joe Johnson and not enough attention to the team.
He doesn’t want to play center anymore and I think he will move on if there isn’t a change made. Rick Sund and him clearly disagree because I remember any earlier report where he said he thought the size of the team was fine.
So it seems like Rick Sund has a lot of work to do cause there is no doubt in my mind that Al will take a qualifying offer and leave. And really they won’t be in a financial position to compete with what some teams will be offering him next year.
If Al wants to leave, he takes the QO...
decline the qualifying offer, and he’s a restricted FA where they almost certainly match any offer. if Al wanted to go, he takes the QO and waits one more year to be unrestricted.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67840/20100705/horford_unsure_about_future_in_atlanta/
I am not sure if it posted in the previous post.
Why does everyone want Chris Paul so bad?
Was the point guard position really the downfall of this team last year? Everyone was all over Woody for not playing Teague last year and we can’t wait to sit him on the bench again for Chris Paul. How about a legitimate center? Are there any legit centers in the league outside of Howard, Bogut, Bynum and Duncan? It’s a different league than it was back in 1987. Do you really think Horford is going to sign with another team that doesn’t play him at center? The Celtics don’t have a legit center and they made the Magic look like Y ballers because most of the time, they try harder than the other team, especially on the defensive end of the floor.
Chris Paul is a Legit Superstar
He comes he instantly makes every player on the team better.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
THIS...
and he gives us a potential vocal leader getting in guys face that Joe isn’t. He could be a big boost to Marvin opening space for him, challenge him to show up instead of hiding in the background. Or if Smoove stays and Marvin is in the deal, demanding Smoove get his butt in the paint for alley oops.
See? This is the problem with the "Legit Center" argument!
Bynum/Bogut – Al is superior to these two in virtually every fashion. The only thing they have on Horford is size. And one could argue that, defensively, they still have no clue how to use it.
Duncan – Timmy plays Power Forward. According to him, he’s not a “legit” center either.
Everybody keeps bringing up “legitimate” centers who are less than Al just because they are bigger. Tim Duncan remains as a perfect blueprint of what we hope Al will become. Yes, even Tim plays power forward; but to be honest he’s every bit a legitimate center due to being technically superior, no physically.
I think he is legit
maybe not offensively but he can defend any other center in the league
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Tim Duncan is not a center and does not like to play the center position and so for the most part he doesn’t
The spurs made it a point to put a body at the five however mundane they might be
That's what Im trying to say
We shouldnt be starting the next Oberto at the 5 just because it makes Al slightly more comfortable.
We bring up big physical, shot blocking Cs because we have none...
and adding one to the bench would be a big improvement.
Exactly!
Timmy actually played 61% of San Antonio’s minutes at center this past year, so he was definitely a center.
Here is how the NBA’s centers rate relative to their PER. Note that these are centers that played 40+ games and at least 25 MPG.
1. Tim Duncan 24.72
2. Dwight Howard 24.15
3. David Lee 22.21
4. Andrew Bogut 20.66
5. Andrew Bynum 20.20
6. Brook Lopez 20.05
7. Al Horford 19.37
8. Marc Gasol 19.17
9. Al Jefferson 18.87
10. Nene Hilario 18.83
That is the top 10 relative to PER. Of them, half are 6’10" or under in height. Only one is a true seven footer. In fact, that data is from hoopdata and doesn’t include Chris Bosh and Pau Gasol, who played more minutes as centers than they did as power forwards.
Josh Smith is a 20+ PER power foward and is in the top 10 of that position. Do you mean to tell me that Atlanta would be better off moving a 20 PER center to the power forward spot so they can get a 13 PER center to replce the 20 PER power forward Josh Smith?
It is a FACT that Atlanta will not be able to get a center that is good enough to not only move Al out of the center position, but also move Josh Smith to another team or to a position that he clearly cannot play which is small forward.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
by KB21 on Jul 5, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I could care less about what JJ said to the fans
He could have said Atlanta has the worst fans in the world and we can all go to hell, if he produced like Lebron I’d still accept him with open arms. Unfortunately, that’s the case
Not intending to change the subject
but Summer League Play in Orlando begins today. Charlotte and Utah are playing right now.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Also James Augustine
who is also going to play for the Hawks summer league team this summer in Las Vegas
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Still no official announcement of our summer league crew damnit...
is Akyol gonna be there? Will Gladyr be there as reported? Will we have Othello Hunter or Garrett Siler or other possible legit roster additions? How about Charles Garcia or other intriguing undrafted FAs.
Siler and Hunter won't be on the team
They’re on some other teams
Proly gonna feature Teague, Crawford, Akyol or Gladyr (can’t remember which was confirmed), Pape Sy, probably Mario West too.
Can’t think of who else I heard.
I've heard Landon Milbourne, and that...
Gladyr will be on it. But nothing confirmed, and the Hawks website has said on it’s summer league page for a week or more “roster coming soon”. If I’m not mistaken, Michael Cunningham of the AJC said it’d be out a week ago.
Ridiculous Upside
Still doesn’t have a full roster up yet either. Trust me when it is finally out they will have it over there.
Anybody know who Othella Hunter is playing for this time?
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Garrett Siler is playing right now
With New Jersey on the Summer League Broadband. Might be on NBATV
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Guys play with more than one team at times though...
Siler can play for jersey in Orlando, then come play for the hawks in vegas.
Roster Movement
Noone has mentioned the possibility of Brandon Haywood as a 5 option.Nor Raymond Felton at the 1 . If the Chris Paul trade isnot possible.Then maybe could push the cap goin after Carlos Boozer.
I like Haywood but I think Dallas does all it can to keep him
What are everyone’s thoughts on Felton. I happen to like him but I am not sure he is what the Hawks need. Paul is the type of talent that you shape everyone else around. Felton is a piece that you plug in and hope it fits. That said I do like him. I might want to see how Teague does though.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Felton
I grew up in GA but live in Charlotte now. Not even Carolina fans are big on Ray Felton now. Not sure I’d want the cast-off PG from an offensively inept team to become the guy distributing for the Hawks.
let Teague have it
if things don’t look like they are working out then make a move before the deadline if we can. We just need a good penetrating PG who can defend I think Teague has shown he can penetrate….now can he defend????
A recomendation
See what you can get for damn ineffective Marvin Williams none of you guys are talking about the market for him
We are in trouble now!!
Bringing Joe Johnson back is a mistake I am a hawks fan but would rather have had Chris Bosh , Carlos Boozer , Chris Paul or Carmelo sign and trade him he is not the answer to our woes this year or any other year. Sign and then trade him!!! Would like to see the hawks get David Lee or maybe even Shaq would help.
Marvin Williams
What a waste of a draft pick get rid of him should have had Deron Williams or Chris Paul instead.
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