The Official (Pure Fantasy) Chris Paul Trade Thread
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 22, 2010 11:52 AM EDT
118 comments
You've heard the rumors. You may have even read my tweets. Now, as we have alluded to previously, we ask you once more the following questions:
Do you want to go after Paul?
What would you give up for Paul?
What do you think the Hornets would ask for Paul?
Should a deal for Paul come with a contingency on an extension to take him off the market?
Give a percentage number on what you think the chances the Hawks actually are able to make a trade for Chris Paul?
My answers to these questions after the jump. Chime in safely within the confines of the Comments Area!
Do you want to go after Paul?:
Absolutely. Point guard has long been a soft spot on the Hawks and this would actually take advantage of both the final quality years of Joe Johnson and the prime of one of the Hawks young bigs.
What would you give up for Paul?
I would trade Josh Smith, and whatever side piece they wanted in a deal for Paul. This would include Marvin Williams, Jamal Crawford's last year of a contract, and either of the young guards (Teague, JC2)
What do you think the Hornets would ask for Paul?
My long standing guess is that they will take this opportunity to try and unload Emaka Okafor's remaining 62+ million dollars in any deal for Paul, so that means that likely Smith plus Marvin or Jamal plus the two young guards would be in play to fill out the contract.
Should a deal for Paul come with a contingency on an extension to take him off the market?
Absolutely. Not to invoke a painful piece of our history but, ummmmm, Danny Manning, anybody?!
Give a percentage number on what you think the chances the Hawks actually are able to make a trade for Chris Paul?
Given that we are reportedly not on the short list Paul has given as tasty destinations, (This despite "doing Joe Johnson right" and being the amazing city Atlanta is), which would theoretically hinder an extension conversation, it's a low number.
But, from the Hornets perspective, there is a lot to like about what the Hawks could provide in a trade. You have a significant primary piece (Smith), young talent (Williams, Teague, Jordan Crawford), and good filler (Jamal Crawford, Mike Bibby). That, plus a possible reticence to use draft picks might mean enough sweetener to do a deal.
Given the complexities of the Paul end of it, though, and the financial restraints of the ASG (they would be paying Joe, Al, CP3, and Okafor significant guaranteed money over the next four years at least), I would put this at about 5 percent chance....solely based on the type of deal we can put together.
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Get it done
Whatever it takes. We need to consider this deal.
The ASG can’t start worrying about finances right after they made their first power move to take joe off the market for $124 million. Miami one-upped us, Boston and Orlando will still be good, so do we concede and take the 5th seed, MAYBE make the 2nd round, and not sell more tickets, or does this team finally make the power move to become a real contender, the team that defies the Miami Heat’s big 3, and sells out over half its games (making the ASG actual money)?
And don’t get me wrong, it would be sad to see Josh go, especially since I have his jersey, but we gotta try this.
by coachkcastellon on Jul 22, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions
Wow.
1. No-brainer
2. Anyone on the team is expendable to get CP3. Ideally, we could rid ourselves of Josh, but I would not hesitate to give them Horford if that is what it took.
3. I have no idea what the Hornets would want. They are arguably the only NBA owners cheaper than ASG, so we might actually be able to “Isiah” them into a ridiculously one-sided trade.
4. I would love to get an extension done, but it is not necessary. CP3 could continue to suffer injuries and 2 years from now may not be worth max money.
5. I think the Hawks would have a good chance to do this if they are willing to be creative and not hold to the ludicrous notion of “keeping the core together.” Marvin has already proven that he is, at best, a decent 6th man, and Josh has proven that he will never be mature enough to perform well in the post-season. Horford is the guy to build around, but the Hawks should not be above trading him either.
Is there really a way to say no
I have to disagree with a few of yous on here. Trading Al would be a huge mistake. Trading Josh would be a big mistake. Using logic, it appears huge is larger than big, so if we have to give up one, let it be Josh. In my tweet convo with THHB earlier, how can any ownership not get behind a foursome group of Al, JJ, CP3 and Okafor. That right there might be an immediate championship caliber team. In one hypo trade ATL gave up Josh/JC/Teague for Okafor and CP3. This is the best case scenario for the Hawks. Although NO has Collison so they probably have no need for another young PG, if we can throw in Bibby instead, just maybe.
If I’m Sund, which I am not. I’d be on the phone with NO and Paul seeing how this can work
by Josh Smildress on Jul 22, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
You're right...
…Sund HAS to be asking the questions. Add-in the desire that Al Horford as to play more PF, and you have a serious reason to move Smith for Paul in a deal.
Though I wouldn’t be surprised if NO asks for both Smith AND Horford when Sund firsts makes a call over there.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 22, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Horford AND Smith
Would definitely not be worth the gain at that point.
I would think the point of trading for Chris Paul
is to have him play with Al and/or Josh. Losing Al and Josh (especially Al) would be regessive to the trade. It’s like if you want an engine you have to trade the transmission…..doesn’t make sense
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
I think folks agree one or the other...
….but not both, even if that’s what they ask for the first time around.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 22, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd go so far as to say neither
Trade JJ and let Paul run the show with either Crawford. I’d much rather have a Paul/Jo. Crawford/Williams/Smith/Horford five for the long haul with no worry about significant depreciation in value. I think Pauls production alone would offset JJ.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Who would not
I would give JJ for Paul but no way they want that contract, forget it
by formerlyknowna on Jul 22, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure JJ, by NBA rules...
can’t be dealt until December. That is assuming we wanted to deal him AND found a trade partner.
That's fine with me.
Trade him to NO for Paul. I’m sure they could find a way to make it work.
Basically, my point is that I would rather lose JJ than to lose Smoove or Horford.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Well, the word fantasy is in the title
I can dream can’t I?
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
You pretty much got it...
Definitely would want Paul.
Would give up almost whatever they wanted.
They’d ask for at least one of Smoove, Marvin, or Al, Smoove making the most sense with a matching contract, and also to take one of their oversized contracts, most likely Okafor but possibly Peja or Posey (or 2 of the 3).
It has to include a pre-negotiated extension or you’re playing with fire.
Chances, slim to none.
Smoove, Bibby, Marvin and the trade exemption from the Chill deal for Paul, Okafor, and Posey? Maybe, but I won’t believe Paul as a Hawk until it happens.
Smoove, Bibby, Marvin and the trade exemption from the Chill deal for Paul, Okafor, and Posey? Maybe, but I won’t believe Paul as a Hawk until it happens.
That would be my trade, think it’s a fair deal!
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Jul 22, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
let's get Kobe and Howard too
Sure I’d want the Hawks to trade for Paul, but the chances of that happening are negative infinity with this ownership group and Rick Sund as GM.
After thinking about this...
I was initially hesitant to trade include Josh or Al in any trade…because they’re the guys that I think would flourish the most with CP. However, after some thought, I’m fine with trading either (preferably Josh) and some package for CP and Okafor. A starting 5 of CP, JJ, Marv/Mo, Al, and Okafor would be stout and give the East a run for its money.
Honestly, this is the first time I’ve been excited about the Hawks this off season. I think we actually have the players to get CP (the only offer I’ve heard that might be better is Boston trading Rondo) and a strong enough post-trade team around him that would be fairly attractive to him both short and long-term. If ASG and Sund don’t go all out for this trade, I’ll be disappointed…especially if a lesser package nabs him.
I think
Josh Smith, Jamal Crawford, and Teague would get it done. It works money wise those three for Paul and Okafor. Remember Lebron was rumored to New York for years before he choose Miami, so I am not big on this alleged short list. On the other hand, I am not so in love with Paul and I am really not interesting in giving Josh up. I would really rather get a starting small forward like Granger and move Marvin, Teague, and Jamal. Finally, I think we have just as good or better shot than any of the so-called 3 desired destinations, if there was something such as a Paul sweepstakes there would be atleast 10 teams calling and we would look just as good as any, so I say 10% chance, hold up ASG, is worse than normal, so they kill our chances some, I will say 7.5%.
Definately agree about what is more important
If I could significantly upgrade our PG or SF positions, I’m choosing SF. I don’t think our point is as big a hole as others do. Though I understand CP3 is beyond being the type of player you only try to acquire to fill a need.
The Hornets will want:
Expiring contracts/TPE
Useful draft picks
Rookie/2nd year players with impact potential (preferably big men)
Houston and New Jersey have far more to offer. Orlando, LA, Portland, and Dallas have the ability to pair him with a real star.
PIPEDREAM.
Intitial thought was 10%
But 5% seems about right too. Maybe not negative infinity as redwards95 says, but you could call it “Every-Fan-In-The-NBA-Wants-This-Guy-But-It’s-Probably-Not-Gonna-Happen” territory.
I live in Charlotte, and the sports radio here is talking about how the Bobcats could maneuver to get CP3. The Hawks aren’t on the radar here, and they’re not on CP3’s radar either.
Continuing the fantasy to get Paul: Horford vs. Smith
Unfortunately, this deal comes down to who would you rather send, Al or Josh. You are going to have to give one up. I go back-and-forth with it, and basically you can make positives and negatives for both. Clearly, either big would look a lot better with Paul (not to mention what this would do to Joe and Marvin’s game). Thing was, I always thought that you would have to include Josh to make the money work: Something like Josh/Crawford/Bibby + 1st for Paul/Okafor is what has been bandied about, but I always felt that it doesn’t meet enough of their criteria. (They get locked into Josh for a while, not enough expiring, and Josh/West play same position, etc.)
I worked one with Horford this morning:
Horford/Crawford/Evans/Bibby (I assume they would want the vet, not Teague?)
for
Paul/Okafor
Gives them two expirings this year, JC & ME add up to $13.3. Bibby backs up Collison for two years then he is done when West is. And All-Star Horford is on the last year of his rookie deal. They resign him to what they want and build forward from there. With all the expirings (and maybe a 1st thrown in) this can be attractive, right?
Leaves us with:
Paul/Teague
Joe/Jordan
Marvin/?
Josh/Powell
Okafor/Zaza
We would need a 5th guard, a 5th big, and a backup SF. Which if we get Paul, we go for it and use the MLE? We are locked into a lot of money here (the whole starting 5 would be on the hook for a few years), but it makes the team better and definitely more interesting this upcoming year.
Good points
Horford may have to be the primary due to positional influence (David West also plays PF), but that would be a high price to pay for Hawks fans, though we tend to overvalue Al a bit….not too much, but a bit.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 22, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd agree with what you're saying...
and on the hypothetical offer, we could replace Evans (or Bibby) with the trade exemption from Phoenix and hold on to one of them, either Bibby to backup Paul and allowing Teague to play kind of a backup combo G role ala the Jet with Dallas, or more likely keeping Mo to backup SG with Jordan and SF as well.
I dunno
There’s a ton of people out there who believe that Josh is really a Small Forward, so it’s possible that New Orleans might believe that he and David West could play together. If they believe Josh has value as a SF, that makes dealing him completely do-able.
Teams Paul reportedly would prefer being traded to
Ken Berger reports Knicks, Magic, and Lakers.
Chris Broussard counters with Knicks, Magic, Blazers, and Mavericks
How aren't the Hawks ever on these lists?
You would think that ownership would have bought some player cred by fantastically overpaying Joe. Add in the young frontcourt and one would think Chris Paul would have the Hawks on the list.
But, as you have shown from two sources, one would be wrong.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 22, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don't understand it
unless fan apathy in Atlanta is part of the problem.
Fan apathy...
the perception/reality that the club isn’t as close to a title as say the Knicks, Magic, Blazers or Lakers (the Knicks have the MSG spotlight, New York’s bright lights, plus D’Antoni’s up tempo offense and more cap space left for additional moves like say Carmello next year). I don’t think having the young frontcourt helps all that much because that’s where we have to subtract from if we were to add Paul.
But I think a package around Al or Smoove could be done. The question is more will it be done.
I think it's ownership that fails to impress.
Primarily that it takes a week-and-a-half from news of signing Jason Collins or Josh Powell to leak before either signing is expected to be made official. Or, it takes them almost a month from letting Woodson walk to settling on Larry Drew. Nothing happens quickly.
Also, despite spending lavishly twice on Joe Johnson, the current, limited success the Hawks have achieved has as much to do with Billy Knight taking Josh Smith 17th, getting lucky with the ping pong balls then taking Horford, and Mike Woodson’s deployment of high-usage lead guards off the bench as with anyone currently in power showing an aptitude for or interest in building a championship contender.
Fan and media apathy would be trailing factors, in my opinion.
Plus...
one can’t discount the influence of agents who may be disinclined to spend extra time negotiating with a dysfunctional, fractured ownership group.
That's all true
but do the players really worry all that much about that stuff versus fan love? I would have to think fan love would be as big a factor as competent ownership in the minds of many, if not all, players.
Really?
Do you honestly believe that JJ cares more about the fans than the $124mil he just signed for?
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Not JJ.
Joe is just a ringer, obviously, who doesn’t much care what is going on around him as long as he is getting his money and his shots.
My thinking is more that some players care about this but definitely not all.
That might be what they say
But I bet it’s much less than you think. Would you care more about possible fan support or $100+ million? I love you guys, but I know what I’m going for.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
But we're talking about them getting their $100 mil potentially anywhere, Jesse
and what additional factors prompt players to make a short list.
I would say probably many basketball factors
Such as the other players on the teams making the offers, who the coaches are, chances of that team making a run at the title, and the recent history of the organization actually paying up. I’d be willing to bet that the ‘fan’ factor is the least of their concerns.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Horrible reputation..and it goes back
Time Warner previously and then ASG. I remember Matt Harpring, who is ATL and a GTech man, saying he would “never” play in Atlanta. Why? The rep that the team is cheap, not just in salaries, but perks, locker room, etc.
It’s going to take a Mark Cuban like revival in Atlanta to change that attitude across the board. I’ll go ahead and file that under “Duh”.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 22, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Good points...
unfortunately, this trade could be something that would give the franchise enough value to be sold, but because of the craptastic sellers, they can’t get it in a position for them to get out.
Not to defend Hawks ownership...
But, as to your second paragraph, Bret, couldn’t you say that about most of the teams in the NBA? They got lucky with the ping-pong balls and got a steal in the draft…and the subsequent front-office reaped the rewards and built around it.
None of the teams listed by Berger or Broussard
are really comparable to the Hawks when you compare the ability of Dallas, the Lakers, or Orlando identify (and/or luck into) a franchise player and the demonstrated commitment to building around Nowitzki, Bryant, or Howard.
Portland appears to be the platonic ideal of rich owner and nimble front office.
The Knicks are obviously an outlier to any sort of competence prior to Walsh and D’Antoni’s arrival but have access to near-unlimited resources.
Man, that is a sobering truth.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 22, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
True enough
I guess the question was “why aren’t the Hawks ever on these lists”. And, in this situation, you’re right that those teams trump our front-office without a doubt. Although, I’m not sure any of them can offer as good of trade package as the Hawks can…although, in today’s NBA, it looks like that’s a secondary consideration.
The fact that Portland has some of the best fans, good ownership, and a good front office
and STILL has difficulty getting players to go there shows you that any of those factors can be nullified when it comes to a player’s interest.
Chris Paul might want to Portland, but I’m betting my bottom dollar he won’t, and it will have a lot to do with not being a warm-weather city and not having enough black culture.
Just in case
Chris Paul shows up at his introductory press conference in Portland wearing a Quasi T-shirt, I’m remembering this.
I think it doesn't even matter if the Hawks have been a top team in the east for the last two years
Money and the people handling it is probably all what players think about when it comes to Atlanta. It’s a strange anomaly that a winning franchise can’t attract talent. And that same talent will go to another team and Atlanta will beat them like a drum on most nights.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Not going to happen
The Hawks front office as Jeff Shultz of the AJC put it, are too passive. Too much work to get this kind of trade done.
Short Answer
Anyone is expendable as long as the deal doesn’t include Josh Smith and Al Horford both
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Dont stop With Paul
Did this trade on ESPn and it Works:
To Hawks:
CP3, Emeka Okafor, Melo
To Denver:
Jamal Crawford, Marvin Williams
To N.O:
Bibby, Za Za, Josh Smith
We would still be under the Cap and the team would be able to compete with anybody
Let me sweeten the pot for Denver
Jason Collins.
Game over.
by Jman781 on Jul 22, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Haha
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Trade
Throw in some Draft Picks , if Melo don’t sign the extenstion they wont get nothing if he bolts next year
Does Paul hold a grudge?
He wanted the Hawks to draft him and they passed him over.
by alonzoisawesome on Jul 22, 2010 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
If Kobe Bryant said he wanted to be traded to the Hawks
Sund & ASG wouldn’t do it, because it would break up our “Core”.
Somebody got it correct
Sund is most definitely a bottom of the barrel GM, one of the 10 worse in NBA
I'm up for a Kevin Pritchard revival in the ATL
Thats the way we get Chris Paul@
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Jul 22, 2010 3:42 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe Jerry West can scrounge around enough money to buy the team
…Or maybe we can do it Leonardo Dicaprio style like he did in Inception and inbed
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Jul 22, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Trading Josh would be nuts
2 years ago I was screaming to trade him but his growth has been dramatic and I expect it will continue…. despite his 3 point attempts in the playoffs. Trading all the strengths the team has — Josh, Al, maybe Marvin for one maybe really in Paul would be nuts. Didn’t Paul sit out a lot last year from a nagging injury. Is that gone? Marvin is like family to the team but I believe his time is up and we could still get some worth from him. Same with Bibby. Shop Bibby, Marvin and some other relief but not the core. We can’t get Paul without dismantling the team and then we won’t have 3 years to build it back.
It’d be great if he came on over but not at that price.
Who
Who said trade Josh and Al. That’s a no-no and Marvin is not a strength IMO, his contract verses his production makes a him a weakness or liability and I do not think anyone other than maybe Cleveland wants Marvin
by formerlyknowna on Jul 22, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If we could convince Josh to attempt to become a ...
center, he’d be awesome. He’s about the same size as Horford, only needs to add lower body strength. But if he worked hard to add power and play around the paint, he’d be near unstoppable and much more skilled than his former AAU teammate.
Are we the only ones who see this?
I can’t even begin to say how much I agree with this.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
I think we are in a minority...
for some reason I’ve seen much more suggesting he move to SF than closer to the rim. I don’t get it, but hope the Hawks do. If Smoove focused hard in the weight room to add mass and power (especially lower body), maybe spent all summer letting 300 pounders post him up, I think he could be a force down low. He has similar physical tools to Howard in height/frame, quickness, leaping, explosion, etc, but is so much more skilled as a player. If he could get near his old AAU partner in power, he’d surpass him as the best C in the league imo.
But Smoove is only 6' 9"
and losing his athleticism by bulking up would kind of turn him into Carlos Boozer, no?
I don't think so...
he’s kept his athleticism the last few years while adding signficant weight (20-30+ pounds), and his frame looks like it could easily handle another 15-20. That gets him up around 275, and depending on how that weight is added (meaning not flab like Shaq, Eddy Curry, etc), I don’t think a 260-275 Smoove is any less explosive, slower than he is now. And he’s within an inch of Horford, Dwight, etc, so being just 6’9 isn’t a problem. There aren’t too many people that can play at a level higher than Josh.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 23, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
The thing is his frame is no where near as wide as Dwight's or Horford's
His arms are long enough but being a center is more or less a mind set that separates the power forward from the center. He’d have to come out next year with an agressive mindset to keep centers off the block.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
This would be my biggest concern
Not if he could have the body for it, but can he mentally put it together? Of course, that question seems to go with him regardless of where he plays…
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Is there a percent lower than 0%?
That’s the chance I’ll give the Hawks of landing the “best PG in the league.” I just want to go on record as saying, and I know I’ll be crucified for saying this, I don’t see what the whole love affair with Paul is. Would I be happy if came to Atlanta? Probably. Will I be crushed if he doesn’t? Doubtful….Is he an upgrade over an aging Bibby and inexperienced Teague? Fo sho! I think my semi-disdain for Paul and Darron Williams is the whole draft thing. I know it’s not the player’s fault how they’re drafted but to read over and over and over and over and over again about how we should have drafted Williams or Paul instead of Marvin just grinds my gears because the point is moot. Move on with your life. In fact, let’s just move on with our lives right now because he’s not coming here now. He’s made it clear he wants to be traded to either LA, NY, or Orl….not Atl….SHOCKER!!
Bet it hit the rim!
Paul is old news
I agree that Paul is good but his time has passed. Look at last year. He missed half the season from this or that injury. He’s falling apart. He might be better than some of our guards but not for big money or losing the core of our team.
by hardheadnsure on Jul 22, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Paul does not
Write his own checks, if he does not have a no trade clause in which he can wave, he will go where ever his owner sends him to, so that list holds too much weight to those who act like those are the only places he could end up
You know at this point
I’d give them anything in Atlanta except for Matt Ryan and Jason Heyward. ANYTHING ELSE they can have
get it done
They need to be working on this now they have the players to get this done. He would play here and be proud to. Blazers are the only other team that could give up enought to get him.
Long past due...
The national media doesn’t talk about the Hawks getting Chris Paul because the Hawks fans themselves haven’t been talking about Chris Paul.
I think there is a much better than 5% chance we get Paul. Since you didn’t mention it, you’re definitely underestimating the “friend” factor going for the Hawks. LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul and JOE JOHNSON are all best friends. By joining the Hawks, 4/5 can be together in the same mega-division along with the Magic.
It’s obvious that Paul would love to go to NY with Melo, but they have nothing to trade. Our strong offer and JJ’s presence should be enough to at least get the Hawks in the conversation.
Quote from Bill Simmons:
1. The New Rat Pack
Sports Illustrated’s fawning, masturbatory puff piece/cover story/PR release about LeBron, Carmelo and Wade was good for one thing: the revelation that those three young players have formed a hangout group called “Our Family” with Chris Paul and Joe Johnson. Apparently they hang out and stuff. And I can see how Paul gets an invite, but Joe Johnson? Joe Johnson??? Who invited him? More importantly, if this were the Rat Pack, LeBron is Sinatra (the leader), Wade is Dean Martin (coolest guy on the group), Joe Johnson is Peter Lawford (in other words, why is he even here?), and maybe you could even talk me into ‘Melo being Sammy Davis Jr. But Chris Paul as Joey Bishop??? I’m not seeing it. They may need to replace him with Jalen Rose.
So...just to clarify...
…the reason the national media and Chris Paul himself doesn’t mention Atlanta is because the fans aren’t talking about it or believe that it will happen?
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 23, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly...
You guys haven’t been talking about it, and when you do you dismiss it as “pure fantasy” despite the fact that:
1. We have the ammo to get it done.
2. Our ownership has expressed a willingness to take go over the cap … welcome Emeka!
3. Shaq has been leaking Hawks rumors (when there’s Shaq there’s fire).
I believe that we have a legit chance to get him, but the national media doesn’t include us in the conversation, just like they haven’t all included the Blazers, the WC team that most mirrors the Hawks. But I agree that I’m probably over-estimating the influence of blogs on national media talking points. Because that’s all we’re talking about. I don’t believe for a second that the Knicks, Lakers, Magic and Blazers are the only teams Paul would ultimately consider.
Re #2
One quoted statement and you actually believe this despite all of the evidence to the contrary? Amazing.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Despite your unnecessarily condescending tone, I agree with you...
The Hawks aren’t willing to go into the luxury tax for a marginal player (Shaq) or probably even a good player (that wouldn’t make us championship caliber).
But I 100% believe that our ownership would accept the tax if it meant that our team would be a Championship contender. If you don’t believe that, why be a fan?
I think that “one quoted statement” was actually alluding to a potential mega-trade that would put us over the cap. So, yeah, I believe it.
Nice mis-quote though, haha
My first sentence: THE NATIONAL MEDIA doesn’t talk about the Hawks getting Chris Paul because the Hawks fans themselves haven’t been talking about Chris Paul.
Your re-statement: “So… just to clarify …the reason THE NATIONAL MEDIA AND CHRIS PAUL himself doesn’t mention Atlanta.”
If you’re going to be a hater, at least play fair.
Fair enough
So why do you think that Chris Paul doesn’t consider the Hawks on such a list?
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 23, 2010 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Who would?
You’d have to get used to him putting his head down and plowing into you on the way to flipping the ball up at the backboard clumsily while hoping to get a whistle.
A man could bruise after a while.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 23, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't trust the national NBA Media, at all.
In the post-“The Decision” world, how could you?
I believe that list was generated by LMRM, and it is where Paul would ideally like to play, but I don’t think those are the only teams Paul would play for. Since we have Joe Johnson, a solid young core, and are within driving distance from his hometown; it’s more than pure fantasy that he could end up playing with us.
Good point...
…it likely isn’t Paul providing the leak.
The “Pure Fantasy” was to insure that people didn’t think he had actually been traded. But, as I said earlier, between our management’s native hesitancy to change and a net add of at least one long term deal (as defined by a re-signed Chris Paul), plus the factors on Paul’s end (Hornets don’t have to deal yet), and 5 percent still seems right, and is based on the good package of players we could gather to make it happen.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 23, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously?
The reason you wrote “Pure Fantasy” was to “insure that people didn’t think he had actually been traded”?
That ridiculous reason reminds me of the Arrested Development scene when Michael was stealing a cooler, but insisted on replacing it with an identical empty cooler:
Dad: Why are you switching out the coolers?
Michael: It buys us time dad.
Dad: What? Like a second?
If Paul gets traded to ATL, it’s safe to say 99.9999999999999999999999% of people will find out somewhere other than a Peachtree Hoops Open Thread. But you’re right, 5% is probably a good number overall, but if the Hornets are actually set on trading him, that number is much higher.
Clarify
I didn’t want to unintentionally hook people with a “CHRIS PAUL TRADED” headline.
PS: Love the Jason Bateman reference
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 23, 2010 7:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Because he doesn't see too much difference between...
the Atlanta Spirit Group and George Shinn. Or at least Leon Rose probably doesn’t.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 23, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Valid point, but
Recent history should be on ASG’s side, 1) We just signed Joe Johnson to “the worst contract in history,” if nothing else, that proves that our owners are willing to overspend out of loyalty to their start player. 2) ASG would prove to be willing to trade Josh Smith, a bankable homegrown star with a VERY reasonable contract in order to win a championship.
That's one way of looking at it...
another is 1) We just signed Joe to a massive deal that if paired with a similar max deal for Paul, when combined with ASG’s reluctance to pay the luxury tax, means it’d be those two, Mario West, Jason Collins, and Emeka Okafor in the starting lineup. And 2) they just lost one of the only two All Star caliber players Paul’s age that he’d have needed to win a championship.
So I’m not sure either of those two is as helpful as you’d like to think they are.
1) People assumed the Heat wouldn’t be able to sign anyone after LeBron/Wade/Bosh … but that hasn’t been the case.
2) You’re right … it’s going to come down to Paul deciding whether Paul/JJ/Horford is a big enough Big 3 to compete. I think it is.
Our matchup would actually look good against the Heat assuming we deal Smoove/Jamal/whoever/1st for Paul and Emeka (we need Marvin’s size against LeBron and I have no idea who would play 3 if we dealt him).
Chris Paul v Mario Chalmers/Jason Williams/Garbage = Enormous Advantage Hawks
JJ v Wade = Adv Heat
Marvin v LeBron/Mike Miller = Enormous Advantage Heat
Horford v Bosh = Even (I actually would rather have Horford, Bosh isn’t a winner IMO)
Emeka v Joel Anthony/Z/Garbage = Adv Hawks
LeBron and role players will come.
Wade’s overlapping skillset could ultimately kill the Heat if we get Paul. A dominant point guard is just more important. The Heat wouldn’t be able to use LeBron as a Point forward (as easily) because Paul would have 5 steals a game.
If we build it, the
On 1)....
that is because a) people can’t count. And also b) the Heat are willing to go into the luxury tax to afford them, which is something the ASG has shown time and again they are unwilling to do.
It's RIDICULOUS to think that the ASG's history of being cheap
would make them less willing to go into the luxury tax for potentially the best point guard in NBA history.
If the Hornets accepted a trade proposal and Paul were to agree to sign an extension with ATL, ASG would have 2 choices:
1) Keep our young team together and be competitive, but not a threat, in the East for the foreseeable future.
2) Add an absolute superstar that will ultimately force the team to pay a luxury tax, but would make the Hawks Championship contenders.
Which is more profitable for ASG? It’s pretty obvious that the answer is Option 2. It’s a risky business decision to go into the tax for a “good” player, but it isn’t risky to do it for a Chris Paul. That’s why the ASG’s past history is irrelevant to me in this situation.
Contrary to what you say my friend...
ASG will not make this deal happen. ASG is adament about not exceeding the luxury tax and not breaking up the core players we have now. Yes, that is ASG’s history, an ugly truth. But I do appreciate your optimism, hopefully ASG will make such deal. Looking at ASG’s history and current free agency moves (or lack there of besides JJ’s contact and JP), we will probably see the same team as last year, great team, but can’t make it past the 2nd round.
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Jul 23, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Paul's good.
And I would love to have him. Really. But potentially the best point guard in NBA history? Man, that moniker belongs to my all-time fav Hawk, Mookie Blaylock!
It just won’t happen. Sorry. Unfortunately, too many pieces need to be aligned for it to happen, and I generally agree with all that Mr. Sanchez has been saying (or typing? whatever).
As Hawks fans, we love our team (even if frustrated by them), and we overvalue the appeal of the team from an outsider looking in. I did the same thing when dreaming about how awesome the Hawks would look with LeBron James on the team instead of JJ…Imagine a team of Bibby/Teague, LeBron, Williams, Smith and Horford with the two Crawfords and Zaza off the bench. Sweet. But alas, James didn’t even consider Atlanta…Why not? Why didn’t he consider Chicago? Because his buddies went to South Beach…That’s why.
Paul doesn’t want to go to Atlanta. He wants to go somewhere that either has a superstar or where a guy like Melo can join him next season (like NYC)…Yes, the Hawks can talk to the Hornets all day long and throw awesome packages at them like Williams, Smith and picks, but if Paul doesn’t want to come here, then why bother? And there is no indication, on any level (national, local, or individually from Paul) that Atlanta is even a possibility. If there is, please post a link. If not, then let’s let the idea go and move on to our Melo ’11 campaign…
In all honesty, this thread is making me upset, for I realize how desperate we are for a change. Let’s not even discuss the topic of correcting past drafting mistakes regarding the same disgruntled PG…I feel many Hawks fans, including myself, just want to shake things up.
When I'm wrong, I'm wrong
Mookie Blaylock is the best point guard in history. In fact, in his honor, I’ve named every fish I’ve ever owned “Mookie,” not kidding. It got confusing for awhile when I had like 10 fish, but it was confusing for the fish, not me.
“Because his buddies went to South Beach…” That’s why I think he would actually consider coming.
Hawks fans are necessarily desperate for change, they are just desperate for a chance. If LeBron James didn’t ruin the NBA by going to Miami, I would have no problem with our team. But since he did, every team should be angling to become one of the other super-teams that can compete with the Heat.
Since the Hawks are one of the few teams that can even consider such a possibility, I think this thread should make you happy.
Opps again ... would be nice to be able to edit comments.
Para 2- That’s why he would actually consider coming because Joe Johnson is Chris Paul’s “buddy” in Atlanta. That was the point of my initial post.
I hope
Joe and Chris are buddies, I would without a doubt take on Okafor’s contract along with Chris and I seriously think that Josh Smith, Jeff Teague, Jamal’s expiring and our trade exception would get it done and most likely be better than anything any other playoff team could and would offer. Al does not make enough to be in the trade unless you go Jamal, Al, Marvin, and our trade exception. I really don’t wanna give Al or Josh up but we would most likely have to part with one of those 2, I would love to see Paul throwing lobs to Smoove and just making him better, but Al is so sound and would be a beast at PF position.
by formerlyknowna on Jul 23, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
For the sake of the Hawks...
And all Hawks fans, I sincerely hope you’re right. I would be very bummed if the ASG didn’t even pick up the phone.
Even if . . .
The Hawks made the best offer to New Orleans, which I believe they can, it still will require a change in ownership philosophy to work. Chris Paul wants out of New Orleans because they won’t spend to build a winning team. If the ASG doesn’t start using every available dollar to win I think Paul will be back on the market in 2 years.
by Evil Dallas on Jul 24, 2010 9:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1000
I agree whole-heartedly, I wouldn’t sacrifice Josh Smith, Marv, and whoever else for a year maybe 2 year rental on a player who sadly will probably be known more for the injuries than what potentially could be a hall of fame career. That would just blows our core player, chemistry, and whatever rhythm we had as a team.
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Jul 24, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What chemistry? What rhythm?
Did you see the Magic series? That’s our team, and Dwight Howard is only going to get better.
If we can get an opportunity to win a championship for the next two years, trading Smoove/Jamal would be more than worth it. And if we are competing for a Championship, and we resign Horford, I doubt Paul would leave. The Knicks can’t keep waiting around for FAs, can they?
We have no shot of being any better than 3rd in our own division for the foreseeable future with our current lineup… FACT.
Jumping to conclusions...
The only reason that we lost that series was because of the lack of an action [lan. We didn’t have a plan of what to do! Did we want to double team Dwight Howard and let them shoot open 3’s or did we want to cover the perimeter and have their way with us in the interior? We didn’t execute either and that was the reason we lost. That has nothing to do with a lack of chemistry or rhythm but a lack of coaching a.k.a Mike Woodson. Also, we didn’t have Point off of Turnovers which is where a good percentage of our offense came from.Even in the regular season we didn’t commit to one or the other and the only game we won (I think the last one) was a last second hail mary play. Give Larry Drew’s system a chance and them jump to conclusions because none of us know what he may or may not do.
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Jul 25, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The best trade offer for the hornets
comes from the hawks. Josh, Jamal, Evans, Bibby for Paul, Okafor, Posey. If the hornets want Al instead of Smith then take away Posey.
PG Paul/Teague
SG Johnson/Crawford
SF Williams/Posey
PF Horford/ Powell
C Okafor/Pachulia
This team is a contender
by alonzoisawesome on Jul 25, 2010 11:42 AM EDT reply actions
The hornets could thentrade Josh for some draft picks and an expiring contract
if they want to start over.
by alonzoisawesome on Jul 25, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think the hornets can get someone better than Josh in a trade
plus they shed Okafor and Poseys contracts. Other teams can’t take both those contracts and offer a player with some value.
by alonzoisawesome on Jul 25, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
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