NBA FanHouse: O'Neal No Longer in Hawks Plans
Not only are the Hawks not making a sign and trade it now appears that they are moving on from Shaquille O'Neal.
The most damaging part of this is that FanHouse confirms our suspicions that Hawks ownership does not want to exceed the 70.307 million mark in salaries or in other words the luxury tax threshold. That currently leaves the Hawks about 4 million dollars shy and they still have to add three players.
over 1 year ago
Kris Willis
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Surprise!
Wow. Millionaires lie. File that under “proper reasons for skepticism when they make a statement”.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 16, 2010 9:13 AM EDT reply actions
Was anyone really fooled?
I note the sarcasm in your statement, but who actually thought that we were going to exceed the luxury tax? Even though I knew it would never be true that we would actually try to ADD to the team that has been bounced from the playoffs in the second round two years in a row, it hurts just the same.
I am sorry, but the team as it is currently set up, cannot beat the likes of Miami and Orlando. In all fairness, I don’t know what piece could (that we could realistically obtain), but we aren’t even trying anymore…
Instead we walk away with the guy with the largest contract in basketball (currently)…Think about them apples.
Could that not be Shaq's excuse?...
It seems he was the one talking about the Hawks, and they may have just balked at any chance of a Marvin for Shaq deal, and therefore he won’t stoop to their lowly MLE offer?
I just hope we are hard in the Matt Barnes sweepstakes. He’d be a great add to compete with Marvin for a starting gig, and at worst would be a solid backup to the 3 and 4 spots for 20+ per.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 16, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In my mind that move would be a huge + for ownership
Barnes is supposed to announce sometime today.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
by Kris Willis on Jul 16, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I've read Celtics and Heat...
although I’d have thought he’d get more interest from (and be more interested in) teams that could offer him a chance to start. That said, in my mind, he’s the best player left on the free agent market, and if he goes to an Eastern competitor that is pretty harsh. If either of those teams add him, the Hawks would be unable to matchup in a 7 game set.
Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Perkins, plus a bench of Barnes, J O’Neal, Big Baby, Avery Bradley, maybe Nate Robinson too, and then whatever they can get for the retiring salary of Rasheed. Damn that’s strong.
Or with the freaking Heat—James, Wade, and Bosh with a horrific (for others) set of ideal role players in Haslem, Chalmers, Barnes, Miller, Ilgauskas, Juwon Howard, and whatever else they add like maybe CJ Watson, Jason Williams, Nate Robinson, TMac, or Brad Miller, etc.
Hey ASG, you wanna compete for a title, for real real, look at the depth of your primary competition in Miami, Boston, and Orlando. We need to add to the damn core, not add and subtract. Add Shaq, add a SF like Barnes, Josh Howard, Rodney Carney or Ronnie Brewer, and then we might have a chance. As is, our best case scenario is a second round exit.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 16, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This Quote by Mark Bradley sums it all up pretty well
“This, alas, is the way of the Spirit. These owners talk a decent game, and sometimes you start to believe them. But there’s no follow-through, and again you stop believing.”
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
And they wonder why they have poor ticket sales?...
maybe try not being lying petty bastards with 8-10 figure bank accounts.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 16, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
+100
Never put your faith in ASG, you will always be disappointed!
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Jul 16, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Larry Drew has a tough job here.
The same lineup that ended the year with such a dark chemistry-induced cloud, and even less emphasis on defense…and was JJ lied to as well about the attempt to improve this team?
They are f***ed, IMO. I think 48 wins would be a nice year with these circumstances, and I would not be shocked if the defensive effort went through the floor and it caused them to be at .500.
Great point about JJ
…though he should have known before he signed what these guys were all about.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jul 16, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure he did
That’s how he got the money.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
No doubt.
I almost concluded that post with a comment about losing respect for JJ, but left it off. Since you’ve basically hit on where I was headed, I’ll say it—if JJ did not know, he’s kind of stupid. If he DID know he’s a money-grubbing asshole who has, through his own greed, cost himself AND THIS TEAM any possible shot at any kind of title.
Either way he’s a nightmare.
This
Here’s how I think the conversation went…
ASG: JJ, we’d like to give you three one dollar bills for your services.
JJ: I was really hoping for four.
ASG: Ok, we’ll make it four one-dollar bills. You are the face of this franchise, the hero of the city.
JJ: Aw, that’s so kind of you. In fact, I’ll cut you a deal since you’ve shown such great loyalty to me. How about you just give me three five dollar bills and you keep the four one dollar bills. Three is less than four so you’ll still have more bills than I will. Maybe you can use one of those four to sign some additional players.
ASG: Wow, that sounds great JJ! Thank you so much for coming to Atlanta all those years ago.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Still surprised he accepted and didn't wait...
and see what could happen with Chicago, NY, or NJ. The lineup of Rose, JJ, Deng, Boozer, and Noah would have been a pretty damn good one.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 16, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Atlanta Spirit Group - DON'T BOTHER CALLING ME ABOUT TICKETS THIS SEASON
…or the next 6.
It’s still the ’07 Hawks minus JChill competing against:
-Orlando Dwights
-Boston Dickheads
-Miami Redeem Team Drama Queens
I’m seriously doubt that one severely overpriced player (that is barely regarded as a superstar) will help get ATL on the map.
How to fix the Hawks problems:
Arthur Blank and Ted Turner for part-owners.
John Schuerholz for GM
Atlanta Hawks=the team that drafted big $$$$$$$$$ instead of big men.
That would be the dream-team of ownership/management
Any way we could throw Comrade TD in there?
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
why won't they go into the luxury tax?
Someone give me good reasons as to why the spirit can’/won’t improve this team. What could it be? fear?
IF YOU CANT ACCEPT LOSING, YOU CANT WIN.
by Hawksgirl on Jul 16, 2010 10:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Money
They clearly don’t have it. My opinion is that they never had the finacial ability to effectively run a pro sports franchise to begin with. They had to get a group together just to buy the teams and they’ve looked for minority investors multiple times. They have reported losses in the $50mil range each year for the last three and they have overpaid for JJ’s services twice now, not to mention overpaying for other mediocre talent and taking on players with bloated contracts. The economy over the last five years has tanked probably causing finacial stress in their other business ventures.
And round and round we go…
Basically, imo, they are trying to spend as little as possible to maintain the current level of play until they can sell. That, and they are clearly idiots.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Minor correction
>> My opinion is that they never had the finacial ability to effectively run a pro sports franchise to begin with.
I don’t think it’s running a single pro sports franchise that’s the problem. They’re trying to run two and they simply don’t have the finances to do it. I’d like to see both teams under new management, but one or the other may resolve the problems.
by SilverRubicon on Jul 16, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
They're definitely losing money
But I can’t think they’re still losing very much of it on the Hawks’ side of the ledger. Ticket sales are up 50,000 since 2007, or close to it, plus they had 6 home playoff games to bring in extra cash flow, not to mention the TV rights of those games. They also had more national TV games last year. I’d think the cashflow has increased to the point that they’re not bleeding money on the basketball side of their operation.
Of course, next season, with payroll higher than ever, it may change.
Haha, I don't think you can 'correct' one's opinion
My opinion is exactly that; I really don’t think they ever had the finacial ability to run one team effectively, much less two. I mentioned the fact that they owned both, but I honestly believe they were way over their heads when they decided to buy into professional sports. It’s a completely different beast than normal businesses.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
What more can we say about our Hawks management?
Only that the off-season isn’t over. By the time camp starts maybe they would have sold the team to the Oracle CEO who wanted to by the Warriors and we would have something to be a little excited about
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
IMO
This makes the draft day decisions even more questionable. If you didn’t want to spend money on cheap draft picks and didn’t want to spend money on free agents other than Joe, how were you going to improve the team? Will Larry Drew have any more control over this team than Mike Woodson? Was he even involved in the draft process? The onus appears to be on management more so than on the players this season.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
I'm glad they aren't getting Shaq for Marvin
i would trade Marvin but not for Shaq….plus there are some good backup players left in FA and that’s all Shaq would have been..(although he would have been a very good backup and he would sell tickets) He would have had flashes of his old self….maybe a 23 and 12 night a few times during the season, but he would have missed a stretch of games here and there, in the playoffs he won’t score much, and he hurts us at the free throw line……Kurt Thomas is a better option and we could still trade Marvin for a better offer and add some players that way
This is the beginning of the end of Horford in Atlanta...
Football is played with an oblong ball. Take your roundball and GTFO...
This isn't the end of the world - and it's not a major sign of stinginess
It’s not like the ONLY reason they’re not signing Shaq is due to the luxury tax. That is just one of the many factors that have been discussed. ASG may not have been willing to even give Shaq the MLE.
Though, purely looking at it from a cap standpoint:
-Shaq is signed for the MLE. We are now one million over the line.
-Three players are signed at the minimum. That is roughly an extra three million over the line. We are now four million over the line.
- Now, it’s arguable that Shaq does not deserve the full midlevel. But through this scenario, not only are we overpaying O’neal by one or two million, but somewhere from five to seven million once you include us having to exceed the tax.
- Now you include the one million ASG losses, that they would have received through being a nontax team, and Shaq’s contract is really around ten or eleven million dollars (MLE + 4M tax + 1M nontax).
Correct me if I’m mistaken, cause I am in no way an expert on cap/salary rules. But what I’m trying to ask is that while Shaq MAY be worth the MLE, is he worth the MLE plus all of the tax ramifications?
In short, no.
The team has to pay one dollar for every dollar over the lux cap. If signing Shaq to the MLE puts the Hawks $1mil over, then that is effectively $2mil. From there, signing the remaining three roster spots for $1mil each, they effectively become $2mil per.
And yes, saying you are more than willing to go over the luxury cap then doing everything possible not to do exactly that is being stingy.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
when you add back in what he likely adds through ticket and merchandise sales...
not to mention the need for a big, physical C (if he was actually motivated and in good condition), then yes, Shaq at the MLE is worth it. Hell even if he’s a fat, lazy bastard making sure one seat of the bench stays firmly planted on the ground, he’s probably still worth the money in through added revenue in ticket/merchandise.
Might not be the end of the Horford era
I still expect a trade of Joe Johnson to a Western contender (Dallas) by the trade deadline in a massive do over of the summer. I figure Joe was signed when the ASG had hopes that the free agents would be spread out among the different teams. Rather than rise to the challenge of Miami I see them wilting in cowardice.
Bottom line is if they don’t spend more to fill out the needed skill sets then the Hawks will be slightly above mediocre. $124M over 6 years is lot to pay to be slightly above mediocre.
I think that's wishful thinking on moving Joe Johnson's contract before 2015
That contract is toxic. I think the rest of the league was at first shocked, then genuinely confused by it.
And this is coming from a Phoenix fan who was crushed to see JJ go.
There goes Brad Miller.
To the Clutch City Rockets. One more big off the board. Three years at 5 million per.
by Fan Scribe Chris on Jul 17, 2010 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
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