Hawks Draft Reaction, 24 Hours Later
by Kris Willis on Jun 25, 2010 11:35 PM EDT
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PrintWe are now about twenty four hours removed from last night's draft festivities and I still think that KB21 describes it best when he calls it a Good Draft That Could Have Been Great. Quite frankly the Hawks draft was met quite positively by the mainstream media. AJC columnist Jeff Schultz was very pleased with the pick of Jordan Crawford. Even ESPN analyst Chad Ford graded the Hawks draft out with a solid "B" grade.
More after the Jump
Still here at Peachtree Hoops, a sense of disappointment set in once the Hawks sold the 31st pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder as we were once again jolted with the constant reminder that this team is financially strapped. Twenty Four hours later I can now see that the Hawks front office had to be overjoyed at the development. They were able to draft the player they wanted the most and move down in the draft to do so. As Bret over at Hoopinion points out the savings on Crawford's contract over the next three seasons alone is $306,400. Factor in as well the reported 3 million that they obtained for the 31st pick and Rick Sund had to walk away feeling pretty good considering the parameters financially that he must have to deal with.
The selling of a draft pick is never perceived as a wise business decision. Why? Well because fans don't get anything to show for it. There is no player or future draft pick. Obtaining money for it just makes it feel like you gave it away no matter if it actually makes sense or not. Reportedly the Hawks stated that they want to use that money to help acquire a free agent. They in fact have a rather large one in Joe Johnson that will command a lot of money to bring back. Still fans won't actually know if that extra 3 million puts the Hawks over the top in the Joe Johnson negotiation, they won't know if it was key in bringing back Josh Childress. The fact is we will never know where that money was actually used.
The Hawks will once again probably field the league minimum of 13 players. They will once again ignore taking a young player and trying to develop him. There won't be any utilization of the D-League because as Rick Sund stated before with a minimum roster you just can't afford to. Currently the Hawks have nine players by my count under contract. That doesn't include Josh Childress as the thought today is he will either return or maybe get moved in a trade that brings back a player. Joe Johnson is also not counted and like Childress can either resign or be moved in a sign and trade for a player or players in return. Which leaves bargain basement veteran signings like Joe Smith and Jason Collins yet again rounding out the roster. That is not meant as a slight against them but one of the perceived problems of this team is a lack of depth. They were extremely fortunate last season when virtually everyone was healthy for the entire season.
So twenty four hours later I feel better about this draft. Jordan Crawford appears to be an excellent pick especially with the 27th pick. Pape Sy who was picked with the 53rd pick will probably remain in France for the foreseeable future. The Hawks made some solid financial moves in the draft and still came away with the player that they wanted. Maybe I feel a little better just by realizing that things aren't worse, but have just remained the same. Still it appears Larry Drew will go into his first season with the Hawks with a limited roster and limited flexibility. Even now it is hard to make concrete judgments as free agency and what happens with Joe Johnson still will play the biggest part in what shape this franchise takes in the future.
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After thinkin bout it
I like the pick, we got a solid scorer for real cheap. Hopefully with the extra money we can Joe or someone just as important to us. And most of all, nothing makes me happier than knowing we got someone that dunked on Lebron. Im starting to draft my “Lebron Killer” poster for the pre-season games.
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
I still can't feel too good about this
If $3.3 million, over the course of a 4 or 5 year deal, is the difference between signing Joe Johnson and not, that’s okay. It’s extremely petty, but okay. The problem is, selling a draft pick is not the best way to raise that money. There’s not a lot of even financial sense being shown here.
No matter what they do, the Hawks need to fill 13 roster spots every season. Players taken in the low 30s this year will be paid somewhere from $700K-$900K. Veterans signed at the veteran minimum may be paid something like $1.2 million (we paid $1.18 million to have Jason Collins barely play last season). Over the next three years, keeping the 31st pick on the roster can be worth about $1 million over signing veterans to fill that spot, and possibly more. The rookie minimum is only $473,604, so the Hawks could have taken a player who might actually be on the bench with the 53rd pick (Stanley Robinson was still there) and they could have saved over $700,000 over adding a veteran to take up space just next year.
Additionally, the draft is probably the best and most cost effective way to build up talent. In recent years, we’ve seen guys like Anderson Varejao, Mario Chalmers, DeAndre Jordan, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Carl Landry, Glen Davis, and (cough, DeJuan Blair, cough) Ersan Ilyasova all go in the high second round. All of those are useful players. Sure, it’s a total crapshoot, with picks like Walter Sharpe, James White, Solomon Jones, and Nick Fazekas thrown in, but it’s a total non-risk situation where the rewards can be worth a hell of a lot more than $3 million. What’s the cost of a flame-out? Less than half a million dollars.
Teams like the Hawks that have serious depth issues and cashflow problems need to making more gambles like this, rather than clinging their familiar big-name player like a 3 year old wearing water wings.
I agree
Selling picks just seems to send the wrong message. You make an outstanding point about filling the roster out with rookies would be cheaper than veterans. I think Hawks management would argue that they weren’t getting anyone as good as those NBA vets to round out the roster. Hearing Rick Sund speak before I think he would prefer to fill spots 11-13 with Vets then spots 14 and 15 with the draft where they could utilize the D-League and or develop a player on their own. He just hasn’t been presented with that option from a financial standpoint.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Like Bronn said, it makes no sense to fans....
we don’t see anything tangible in a future pick or player, it’s just cash. And we can’t tell if or how it’s used, so from a fan perspective, you take something tangible with hope (a draft pick on a talented young player where everyone focuses on the good upside) and turn it into what looks like a greedy billionaire hitting the atm. From a fan’s eyes, it’s a horrible move. It can work (the Suns have done pretty well lately and they’ve routinely sold their picks this past decade), but it’s an extremely tough sell to the fans.
The draft is a crap shoot no matter where you pick...
it all depends on your scouts. As we’ve seen with Popovich/Buford, Pritchard, and others, some guys can pick in the 20s and above, and still acquire quality talent. As we’ve seen with Babcock, Knight, and others, some guys can pick anywhere in the draft and acquire crap. Sund’s track record is probably closer to Babcock than Buford.
This team still turns on free agents. A quality young big would have been nice, but are we even sure Alabi or Whiteside is going to fulfill their potential? It’s still a crap shoot, from the draft to free agency. I guess we’ll see what Sund rolls.
There was a reason that Whiteside and Alabi both fell
Still when I look at the Kings having drafted Demarcus Cousins and then getting Whiteside in the second round I can’t help but be a little jealous. Whiteside was projected as late lottery at one time. Of course there are no guarantees with the draft and Whiteside reportedly was viewed as immature in some of his workouts.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
So we could be complaining about...
taking $3m instead of Priest Lauderdale Jr or a potential nut job (Birdman Anderson without a run of sobriety)? If Whiteside turns into Solo Jones, I still wouldn’t be upset. Solo is a nice player, but he has never produced much at all (2-4 pts, around 10 minutes per at best). You can get that level of production from Othello Hunter.
That is what I am saying
We just don’t know, of course if Whiteside becomes a serviceable big then it is going to feel worse. The problem here is not taking on more than 13 players. If we felt that we could do that then Whiteside or someone like him could have been one of those last two guys. I don’t fault the Hawks for wanting some experience at the end of the bench dressed out. They just don’t go past that.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Without selling more tickets...
it’s hard to pay for going past that. Maybe they find a couple kids they really like this year and are willing to do it because of that. And all I’m saying is as high the potential is with Whiteside, if they pick right, there’s just as much of a chance you can get the same production from a dozen or more undrafted FAs. It’s doubtful, but there’s guys like Garcia, Samhan, Chism, etc who could be quality signings and produce just as much or more than Whiteside.
I agree and
although I have called Whiteside by name I should be saying a Whiteside like player. I would like to see us bring in Samhan or Garcia for the summer league. Samhan was reported as being invited to our summer league but there is some question now it appears.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
by Kris Willis on Jun 26, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
There's any of a dozen or more I'd like to see us take a look at...
Garcia obviously was said to have potential, and Samhan as a big, I think Wayne Chism has the game to possibly make it at PF, and Tyler Smith could be a solid defensive SF. Sylvan Landesburg, Manny Harris and Mikhail Torrence would be worth a look as big PGs to develop behind/with Teague. Jon Scheyer is advanced enough to be a decent reserve. Devan Downey has plenty of ability offensively, kind of Nate Robinson without the dunks. Samardo Samuels is a physical beast that would be as good as Randolph Morris imo. Landon Milbourne is worth a look, as are Anthony Mason Jr and Tasmin Mitchell, at least worth as much as Mario West in short spurt for defensive energy. Sherron Collins could be a good 3rd PG to push Teague. Art Parkhouski went undrafted and could battle with Siler, Samuels, Samhan, or others to be a C at the end of the bench. Denis Clemente reminds a bit of Juan Jose Barrea as a penetrating scorer.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 26, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Conservative
I will never criticize anyone for being conservative with their money. I don’t know what the ASG books look like, but I doubt any of them are struggling to put food on the table right now. They may or may not be cash strapped. They are losing money on their two franchises right now, but that does not necessarily mean they do not have the capital to own the teams.
I will say this though. I feel like the Hawks have a couple of astute evaluators of talent in the fold in Rick Sund and Dave Pendergraft, though Dave is the one that has done most of the leg work on the draft. If ownership did handicap them from getting more than one good young player in this draft, then that is wrong.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
Oh, and thanks for linking my blog
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
I dont mind it - I understand
I’m a GM planning to take Crawford and Pape
Someone comes up to me and says “I can get you those guys and save you over $3 million”
“No. I don’t wanna look cheap!”
I like the Crawford pick. I hope Drew finds some playing time for him. A young scorer/shooter is a nice thing to have. While the Hawks could certainly benefit from better depth than last season, that really wasn’t the reason they got smoked by Orlando in the second round. So let’s not exaggerate the importance of who the 10th through 13th players on the roster are.
This is not a good draft because it is not addressing the needs
Since when drafting for a position that we already have a superstar for, and a back-up considered a good move?
In any one’s book a good draft mean Hawks need to address needs. Wake-up and smell the coffee please.
We need big men. A center or a wide body. We need a point guard, in case Teague does not work. What do we get? a 6’ 4" scorer shooting guard that plays no defense. Earth to people on this site defending owners: we have Jamal Crawfish for that.
Ahhh I get it we save $3M, that pays for the coach’s salary (by the way he is already the lowest paid coach in the league).
Since when are folks so concerned about the financial situation of these owners? Are we not as fans supposed to be more concerned about the quality of the players and the team? IF these owners can not or won’t make the moves to right this team, keep them honest. There is nothing wrong with saving money, if you are also addressing the needs. There is something very wrong when you are saving and not addressing needs. Then you come across as cheap. Then you come across as not caring for the future. Is there a reason fans don’t buy the tickets? Yes, because they don’t believe the ownership is willing to do what is needed to address the needs.
For those of you who think Hawks did well, look at this link
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/chris_mannix/06/24/draft.grades/index.html#
Thanks for the link
Two instances come to mind. We drafted Marvin Williams despite having Josh Childress and Josh Smith on the roster because he was rated high. The next year we take Shelden Williams because we need a big over guys like Roy and Rondo. We may or may not need Crawford this season. The odds are good that over the next two that one of Joe Johnson or Jamal Crawford won’t be here.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Yes - I agree Crawford is insurance
Which makes this pick even sadder. Because we are not sure we can keep the two players (Crawfish and JJ) that give us close to 50% of our point production.
We plan on replacing a superstar 3 time ALL star, and the sixth man of the year, with an unknown, that could not even make it in the starting roster of Indiana Hoosiers and had to transfer to get playing time. We are planning on replacing the face of the franchise, a player that the cows and knicks are salivating over, with a rookie whose claim to fame is dunking in practice on LeBron.
That is the sadness that is coming over me. The sadness, that we are beginning down the slippery slope of becoming average at best. We as fans need to keep the ownership team honest.
Why?
Why is getting a third big man more important than getting a perimeter player that can actually help improve the Hawks in an area they were truly weak – perimeter defense?
Whether the Hawks had taken Daniel Orton, Hassan Whiteside, or whatever other big man you wanted at that pick, none of them were going to take time away from either Al or Zaza. This idea that the Hawks are woeful at center is so friggin overblown. Al Horford is a top 10 center in the NBA right now and will only get better, and Zaza is one of the better back ups. But I guess we have to continue this narrow minded focus on getting a seven footer because he has true center size.
I am constantly amazed at how Hawks fans drool over every seven footer that is out there thinking they will be better than what we currently have. It shows that we don’t pay much attention to the rest of the league, because the best centers in the league this past year were not seven footers. There are very few functionally good seven footers in the NBA today. The best centers are all around the 6’10" height with good wingspans and athleticism.
And exactly why should this team take a point guard when they have a young guy who wasn’t given a good opportunity to play last season?
The Hawks approached this draft correctly. They took the best player on the board with their pick. If anything, this team needs a back up small foward more than they need a third string center. Damion James would have filled a bigger need than anyone.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
You think no big men in the draft can push Zaza?
c’mon. What I am constantly amazed with is that we think its ok to be thin in the front court. If Josh or Al goes down, who in the world picks up the slack?
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
No.
None of the big men that were available to the Hawks would have gotten much time behind Al and Zaza. Do you think Daniel Orton and his 13 MPG as a true freshman in college would immediately be better than either Al or Zaza at the center position? If you do, then this conversation doesn’t need to go any further.
Now, DeMarcus Cousins, Greg Monroe, and Cole Aldrich would have gotten immediate playing time. Of the big men that were available to the Hawks though, Orton and Hassan Whiteside are at least 3 years away from contributing meaningful minutes on any team. Solomon Alabi fell in the draft like a stone in water, and I always questioned whether he had the requisite athleticism and reflexes to play on this team.
Now, a guy like Jarvis Varnado may have contributed some as a little used reserve on this team. I think he could have given the Hawks more production than Joe Smith, but we are talking about another undersized post player that wouldn’t have cured this outdated insatious thirst for a seven footer just because he is a seven footer.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
Varnado will be an NBA 4, though
Rather than a center. I wouldn’t have minded adding him because he’s clearly meant to be the back-up PF, and he’d have probably helped address some of the defensive problems we have when Josh Smith is off the floor.
With the 31st pick, my hope was that the Hawks WOULD take a project big man, like Orton (before he was scooped up) or Whiteside. That would have been brilliant-they took a wing who can contribute immediately and a project with pick that requires no risk.
Apparently they didn't like those bigs enough...
and I’m not sure of Varnado offensively for the 4, especially as the game progresses farther from the rim. That’s a huge black hole, and pair him with Zaza would be extremely weak on that half of the floor. He was a great college player but I really can’t think of a guy that thin being effective. We can say Solo Jones, but then is 4 pts, 3 boards, and 10 minutes max really worth it? Can we not get that from any of a dozen undrafted FAs if we pick the right one?
This conversation shouldn't go further...
Because my question is who’s going to back them up? Let’s be honest Zaza doesn’t have the Varejao factor
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
But like I've been saying I'll wait til after the offseason to judge this draft
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Have you watched the NBA finals or Hawks during the year?
Or are you just listening to what Sund and his PR people say?
Big man means going deep into playoffs. Read below. That along with point guard play is our greatest weakness. Do we need more perimeter defense? probably, in particular against multitudes of outside shooters that Orlando has. but that to me is not as big a weakness, if you play Teague. Note, point guard is weakness that magnifies the perimeter defense problems Hawks have.
Brief recent history of playoffs and big men participants:
NBA finals: Lakers: Odom, Bynum, Artest, Gasol. True big men all of them
Celtics: Big Baby, Garnett, Perkin, Rasheed ,True big men all of them
Conf finals: Howard and Gortat, enough said.
Cavs: Shaq, Z, Verajo, Hickson.
I can go on, but you should get the picture. These teams are deep with big men. Not one or two. Hawks have Lion and Smoove. After those two, they are in trouble.
And clearly you did not watch Hawks closely last year or you would not give me Zaza is better than those folks in draft. Zaza can not take the ball inside in traffic, he fumbles. He has a hard time tying his shoelaces. Zaza is a good defensive player, but i would not rank him ahead of potential of some in draft. And if you walk the streets of Atlanta, go by his restaurant. You will see where his focus is, changing the theme, and putting his attention there. Point being we need more than Lion and Smoove and Zaza.
Also, note I never said we need a seven footer. I said big man, and a wide body. Even your hero Sund was trying to go after that used Z man from Cavs before the deadline for trading last season because he knows where we lack depth. Even Lion has said he would love to play with a real center. Though I am of the opinion you need a deeper big men rotation not necessarily a seven footer.
ok class over.
You are obviously ignoring the fact....
….that what makes Garnett, Gasol, Perkins and the rest of those “big” men good is their length, not their size. Even with Gasol, he’s not a good defensive player at all, but his length causes people to change their shot angle. He’s also not a physical presence. Perkins is also a limited player. Bynum is a bit player who isn’t coordinated enough to play a lot of minutes.
There is a reason the most productive centers both offensively and defensively in the league are Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudemire, Al Horford, David Lee, Al Jefferson, and others like them. The game has changed. The era of the dominant big man is over, and the league is a guard oriented league now.
But hey, if you want some big, heavy, slow footed oafs like Andrew Bynum that cannot run or jump, then be my guest. I’ll take the so called undersized guy and run circles around you.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
The money from the Thunder will go to pay Crawford. The 27th slot is 3.5 million so the team will only have to pay 500,000 for him. That was why we did not pick him when we could at 24.
Actually
The 27th pick makes under $3 million for the first three years. See here
Over the next three years, Jordan Crawford will make $2.8 million. So maybe they were just making this move to pay his salary. But seriously, if you’re having to make extreme financial decisions just to pay your lower draft picks, perhaps you’d be better off by not extending an offer to Joe Johnson. The only way teams get gradually better over time is through the draft. It’s the easiest way to acquire assets with which to build your team.
Sold to who?
Liberty Media? People keep hating on ownership as if Ted Turner is waiting around the corner.
Arthur Blank...
one of the two billionaires that own Cox communications, among others. Truett Cathy.
now we don't need to resign JJ and can extend Jamal's contract for another 5-6 years
...in dixie land i'll take my stand to root for Atlanta
t's not that I've got something against JJ,
it’s just that we don’t know if he’s reliable enough. I want him to stay in the ATL I really do, it’s just that he may leave for New York or Chicago to play with LeBron
...in dixie land i'll take my stand to root for Atlanta
Reliability
can’t be a factor when comparing JJ to Jamal. Jamal benefited last season from free reign off the bench. His shot selection leaves a lot to be desired and that will become a lot more apparent if he is on the court starting.
Don’t get me wrong I love Jamal and I love what he does as a six man but he drives me crazy at times. You don’t have as many four point plays as he does without forcing shots.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
well said
Jamal is great in his own, and as he has proven, when he is hot, scores as well as any one, getting his own shots. Without a doubt the difference maker in Hawks improvement in record from last to this year.
But JJ is just a different class of player. JJ is a complete player. I don’t believe Jamal can be a starter, or he will be taken advantage of on the defensive side, to the detriment of the Hawks, and on offense, he lacks the consistency needed from a starter.
good point, but he has plenty of time to improve on defense
...in dixie land i'll take my stand to root for Atlanta
I'm digging the draft if management has this in mind....
It’s possible the Hawks will miss the playoffs next season and I’m content with that (if we take a step back now, we take 3 steps ahead the ‘11-’12 season) because I look at the Hawks as a 2 year plan. 1st I don’t think JJ is coming back. With that in mind we must find out what we got in Al and Josh. Personally I think we need a player to replace JJ(that’s why I’m in favor of trying to get Salmons for 3 yrs. max) that can command a double teams at times. And that’s what worries me the most about the ‘10-’11 Hawks. If JJ doesnt come back we dont have that luxury. But drafting Crawford allows us to trade Jamal ( I think an $9 million dollar cap hit) at the trade deadline for a better and established big man than what we would have received at #31. So we get Teague playing major minutes, the new Crawford playing major minutes, Josh and Al learning to be the alpha dogs on a team, a new big man to contribute. Possibly throw Salmons in the mix and the Hawks could look very good going into ‘11-’12 with tradeable assets.
by xavip on Jun 26, 2010 10:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Jordan Crawford is a great pick
because he’s a good player with grea upside. Not because he’s replacing anybody. But because the hawks needed cash they passed on aquiring more depth at a vital spot. Great teams have great depth and I think management thought last year’s depth was good enough to make a major run. The signing of Marvin, Bibby, and Zaza were good faith signings for Mike Woodson to show what he was made of, so because the ASG and Sund wanted to give Mike another chance (or didn’t want to spend money on a new coach and Woody) they gave no foresight to this years free agency. I really don’t agree with not selecting a young big but the offseason isn’t over and regardless of what happens to Joe I’m….willing to watch what happens this year.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Not to mention the flexibility the pick gives
Now if JJ stays we can trade Jamal’s contract with little fear. And if JJ leaves we can move Jamal to the starting 5 without worrying about production off the bench. Or we could keep both and have an insane guard rotation of Teague, Jordan, Jamal, Joe, and Bibby.
Now that your mention it
that rotation would be great
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
Jordan Crawford an A+++ pick But what went on Later left the fans wondering.
James was a very good G/F and was traded for Jordan Crawford and Pick 31.
Crawford very best pick at spot. Next comes #31 Then Shouldn’t Atlanta Hawks have then picked Luke Harangody, Gani Lawal,Jerome Butler, Antoine Coleman, Adam Parakhousi, Tim Ohlbrecht,Hamady N’Diayne, Omar Samhan, Soloman Alabi Or Boban The Magnificent (7ft 4 in Player)
Ofr Course With 63 Seniors The Scouits Overlooked many of them and Foreign Players.
Some of Above were Seniors and Unpicked Number #1 and 4 in NCAA SCORING.
Also Horford and Pachula and Josh Smith Are Among the Leaders in NBA for Rebounds per 48 Minutes
They are some of top in NBA for Rebounds Per 48 Minutes.
That's because everyone kinda gave up
you think a third-string rookie coming off the bench woulda helped out just because he’s 7ft tall?
someone who knows their role and won't leave Horford high and dry to rebound?
I think so
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Horford left the team high and dry
Its not like he was the only one rebounding. NO ONE was rebounding. Including Horford.
Meh
This draft was ok, not good imo. The James pick would have filled a better need, but I understand and am ok with trading him for the two picks that netted us Crawford and some cash. I don’t mind the Crawford pick, but I don’t see that as improving the team in any way as the only thing that accomplishes is adding depth to a position we have plenty of depth at, with or without JJ. But, like I said, I understand it and am okay with it because I think he’s a decent player.
Afterwards though, it all makes no sense. I get it, the ASG is bleeding money like there’s no tomorrow, but really? This does nothing but get you some cash today where you are just going to lose it this season anyways, so why not try to stop that from happening instead? Why not use that extra pick on a player that might actually be useful or give the fanbase something to hope for this season, ya know, maybe put a few extra butts in the seats. I’d actually been interested in going to see Varnado or Lawal play, heck I’d even buy their jersey’s. That’s money in the bank throughout the season, and who knows, maybe even help a few more wins show up in the boxscore, which we all know attracts more fans. So I’m a little put off by that move.
Drafting 53rd doesn’t really do you much, but there were more serviceable players available that could potentially contribute depth than whatever Sy provides. That being said though, the Hawks never use their second round pick for much of anything other than owning the rights to a foreign player, so this was to be expected, and frankly I agree that this is where they should have been trying to save their money, not earlier.
So all in all, I think this draft was ok, not good. But hey, who knows, maybe the ASg will surprise me.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
You know, what if the Jordan Crawford pick is trade material?
I could be wrong
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
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