Atlanta Hawks Choose Cash Over Winning on Draft Night
This may not be fair, but it's how I feel: On a night that could have shown the Hawks as a savvy, clued-in franchise, they chose thrifty instead in their approach to the 2010 NBA Draft.
Let's be clear, they got a first round talent, Jordan Crawford, and even wisely traded down to do it. But to focus on that one player and that one pick is to bury the lead of the evening, ignore the obvious truths that surround this franchise, and to blindly believe that the Atlanta Hawks are serious about being any kind of champion.
The night started grand, with a ton of talent that the Hawks were looking at drifting down the draft board to them at the 24th pick. Big men like Solomon Alabi, Daniel Orton, Hassan Whiteside, and Jarvis Varnado were all on the table, as were the backcourt players they looked at as well. As the picks came off the board, it was clear the Hawks would have multiple players they liked to choose from.
So they did what any really savvy franchise would do: Trade back, pick up an extra pick, and get two of the players you wanted instead of just one. And they did just that, first drafting Texas forward Damion James and then shipping him to New Jersey for the 27th pick and the coveted first pick in the second round, #31.
Euphoria swept the Hawks fandom as we quickly added up that the Hawks could address both a small and a big with the two picks. Sure enough, when #27 came up, Xavier's Jordan Crawford was the pick.
Crawford, who can be compared to Jamal Crawford and Ben Gordon, was a good value there, and it allowed the Hawks to begin to focus on a big man with their next pick. Alabi, Whiteside, and Orton were all still available just before the Hawks were set to pick at #31. Then Orton came off the board, leaving the Hawks with two big men to choose from, as well as Varnado.
This was it. We were going to be one of those teams who played the draft with precision and skill, picking up a couple of players who can help the team and improve the overall depth. No more Jason Collins type player, even if it were a project big man coming into the fold. It was an odd feeling of "we're doing it, we're that team this year". Odd because draft night has been historically a collective stomach punch for Hawks fans over the years.
So the 31st pick seemed like it took forever to be announced. We just knew something sweet was coming. We were going to pull one over on the league, get a scorer and a shot blocking big man by trading back. This was going to be sweet. Folks even started to wonder what we could get at #53, daring to dream about getting (3) guys who could help even this season.
Something became amiss when the pick was announced, and it was Tibor Pleiss, the German center. Then, ESPN announced the worst: Not only was this pick not going to be a Hawk, rather, it would be going to the Oklahoma City Thunder, the Hawks weren't even going to take a player for the pick.
Nope. They sold it for cash considerations. Guess somebody needed some rent money at the end of the month.
So long two for one. So long caring about the depth of the team. The Hawks are a financially strapped organization, you see, so they couldn't afford to have a second player they would have to pay coming out of this draft.
At #53, the Hawks again went cheap, selecting Pape Sy from France, which means he can continue to "work on his game" overseas and the Hawks don't have to pay. If he becomes anything, they can either bring him to the States or pawn him off for something else..a la David Andersen of the Rockets.
Terrific.
To sum it up, the Hawks traded down, and got some cash. Why trade down and help a team if you are not going to even use the extra pick you got to trade down to help your roster?
Well, you see, the 27th pick has a cheaper salary slot than the 24th pick and they can make a couple of extra bucks by selling, as the network described it, one of the most valued assets in the draft, the first pick of the second round.
Oof.
Watching a franchise like the Thunder, who expertly moved up and down the draft, doing the things that winning franchises do to build a champion, and then watch your club make the money grab is a sobering comparison indeed.
Last season, the Hawks carried the minimum amount of players required by NBA law last season. They consistently eschew quality toward the end of the bench for as yet undetermined reasons. They had the opportunity to greatly improve the quality..or at least the potential quality of the bench by simply taking advantage of the situation in front of them.
Instead, they punted, and got paid to do so. Swell.
Further sad truths come when you understand that these second round picks can be, especially at #31, incredibly financially efficient assets for the team. Certainly what you would pay for that pick (or top players in the D-League, for that matter) would be better, dollar for dollar, than forking out the vet minimum for Joe Smith and Jason Collins. Easily.
The Hawks need a lesson on financial organization. If they are so strapped for cash that they can't even put the #31 pick on the roster, then please don't overpay John Salmons to come in here and play at the league average (you hope) for three seasons or pay Joe Johnson a six year max deal for the two decent seasons he might have left.
To trade back and get nothing more than some green for your bottom line when the opportunity was there to improve the depth of your roster and get one of the big men you had been looking at is a transparent money move for your entire fan base and the league to see.
This, on the heels of making another miserly decision on coaching, going with the extremely affordable Larry Drew versus Dwane Casey.
Spare us the script on how much money you spent on the roster last season. These are the types of moves that tell everyone whether you're serious about winning a championship, or that you would like to win a championship, if we can get it on sale.
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C'mon loser Hawks fans...
I don’t know how many times the Minnesota Timberwolves were ridiculed for having so many draft picks and being able to load up on young talent.
GOOD TEAMS, ESPECIALLY ELITE TEAMS, DO NOT USE THE DRAFT BUILD THEIR TEAMS.
Trades and free agency is where the elite teams solidify their rosters. Losing teams have rosters of projects. Hawk fans don’t you have to stop believing in the hype of the draft. THE DRAFT IS ONLY EXCITING FOR TEAMS THAT PICK IN THE TOP TEN, BUT THAT ONLY MEANS THAT YOU WERE BAD ENOUGH DURING THE SEASON TO GET A TOP TEN PICK.
At best, ELITE TEAMS add good rotation players, a la San Antonio. The fact is, no player (or specifically big man) will have a significant impact on the court for the Hawks. Solomon Jones would have a higher impact this coming season than either Whiteside or Alabi (who fell as far as to the 51st pick).
A veteran big will service the Hawks in the best way and that is what Sund’s plans should and seem to be.
Hakim Warrick is available. Al Harrington is available. Udonis Haslem is also available.
There are some bigs availble in free agency and trades that can help now.
AT THIS POINT, THE HAWKS DO NOT NEED ANY PROJECTS. WE NEED NOW!
Were Dwight or Lebron drafted in the 2nd round?
or even 24th or 27th?
Bynum? Kobe? Rondo?
ok
Paul Millsap? Daniel Gibson? Monta Ellis? Andray Blatche? Marcin Gortat? Carl Landry? Glen Davis? Marc Gasol?
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Exactly...
Outside of Monta Ellis none of those players will be All-Stars. At best they will be good role players. Those caliber players are easily availble through trades and free agency.
Hakim Warrick? Al Harrington? Udonis Haslem? Brenden Haywood? Raymond Felton? Tyrus Thomas? Nate Robinson? David Lee?
so what do you think the hawks have done to build through free agency?
And how easy is it to get some now? Those players I’ve mentioned are solid, rotational, CONTRIBUTORS from the 2nd round. Not people that you stash in Europe.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
You are right...
Those players are solid contributors… and so are the players I mentioned. My point is that all is not lost because similar but proven players are available outside of the draft.
And we have gotten solid players in free agency and trades the last couple of years which makes me think Sund will do what it will take to improve the team this summer.
In the summer of ’08 Sund picked Flip Murray and Mo Evans who were proved to be very valuable.
Last summer Sund picked up Jamal Crawford (who became the sixth man of the year) through a draft day trade.
And so with the draft of Jordan Crawford, this year has started off very positive despite not being able to add what many believe are LONG TERM development players.
There are
proven bigs the Hawks could pick up this summer that we know will be able to play good quality minutes.
Those are also proven, more expensive players that are free agents
I thought the ASG were trying to get quality on the cheap, so when you have bigs gift-wrapped for you in the draft you don’t draft them because you want to spend on vets? For their sake I hope you’re right. I hope assuming players won’t contribute won’t hurt them in the future like previous drafts.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
You started the list okay
but Tyrus Thomas, cmon
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
Yes, Tyrus Thomas lol
Tyrus Thomas didn’t turn out to be a Lamarcus Aldridge caliber player but he is a good rotation player that can play valuable minutes and who is also a free agent
I just keep telling myself
we got the lebron killer. it doesnt really help, but its something to do
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
We got a good player, no doubt
There is some fun in thinking we may have stolen a scorer down there…that’s tough to do.
But that only begins to tell the story. For every good thing that happens to us, these guys’ financial situation rears its head and sobers me up.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 25, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point
im optimistic about he rest of the off season. maybe its about the future of him and teague
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
we also got a guy who can possibly guard
Dwight Howard. The reason the Hawks traded for money is to try to resign with Joe Johnson
...in dixie land i'll take my stand to root for Atlanta
We haven't
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
you didn't watch the draft
the trade with NJ, we get 2(Crawford one of them can’t remember name of other) draft picks and they get the guy from Texas
...in dixie land i'll take my stand to root for Atlanta
Then clearly you didn't see the rest of it
You’re right, we traded James for two picks, one of which was Crawford. Where is the other one and our second round pick? The second pick we sold to OKC for right under $3mil and then we drafted a french player who will never see the light of day in the NBA with our final second round pick.
Again, we didn’t draft nor get through a trade any player that can guard Howard. We left that night with 1 player out of three picks, and that one player is a guard, not a big.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
sorry I didn't realize that they traded the guy 'till the next evening
...in dixie land i'll take my stand to root for Atlanta
One Day
Someone will buy the Hawks, and actually PLAN to win… not just make it another “season in black…”
Neither the fans or the NBA can respect a team like this…
Joe is a Beast
Al is a Beast
Smoove is a MONSTER!
Needed a center
Tonight was disappointing because we sold out and in doing so failed to address a large need for the team. Boo management, boo that man! Grade: D
It's a D because Crawford was the only person not making this an F draft
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
The offseason isn't over yet
Still got time to makes some moves and sign some players and see what the ownership group really wants to do with their lives
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Fuck this ownership.
I have rooted for this franchise since I was a little kid (attended first game when I was 3 years old), and I stuck it out and continued to have hope when we went through The Drought, but the Atlanta Spirit disgusts me. (what a ridiculous and entirely innapropriate name).
I just can’t root for or care about this team anymore. I’m not going to jump ship and starting rooting for anyone else or anything, but this franchise is dead to me until someone else who actually gives a shit about winning runs this team.
I am an NBA widow from this day forward. (ht: Bill Simmons)
Best of luck to Big Al and the rest of you guys troopin’ it out who follow this team.
by get swoll yunel on Jun 25, 2010 2:31 AM EDT reply actions
I’ve posted a couple times before this back in the day… mainly I just loved to come here to read hawksdawgs recaps after watching games. I tend to be a reader and not a commenter. Duff Man is usually pretty awesome in the game threads….
I’ll still follow our boys, I just can’t take this franchise very seriously when ownership clearly doesn’t give a shit about improving our team.
by get swoll yunel on Jun 25, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
"Why trade down and help a team if you are not going to even use the extra pick you got to trade down to help your roster?"
I still understand the move. It was a smart move, though disappointing. If the Hawks decided they were only gonna draft one player that would be on next year’s roster, then it was smart for them to play it the way they did. The draft was still disappointing though because it did show the importance of money on this team.
Maybe they didn’t draft a big because there is some credence to the McGee rumors. And it is possible that 3 rooks were just too many (though I’d rather have three rooks fill out the depth chart rather then NBA re-treads). The Hawks are probably gonna go w/ the league minimum again this year. So if we add Jo Crow, McGee, and the guys we’re getting in the JJ S&T, that may have just left no room for the Hawks’ two additional picks.
Overall, it was a SMART draft but not one that anyone is gonna get anyone talking.
Having said that? I LOVE JORDAN CRAWFORD!
Also
I’m not sre if we would want a team with three rookies, one sophmore (who’s really a rook), and possibly euro exports all of which would be led by Smooth. We do need some vets.
Guys, Guys! It's okay!
As much as the Hawks need a BIG MAN/CENTER, I would rather that Big be a veteran player…Now I’m not sure what plans the owners have after getting the money they desperately wanted, but I figure that the Hawks may be looking at Free Agency to fill that Big Man void.
or at least I’m praying they are.
sigh Go Hawks.
I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.
-Michael Jordan, #23
by King_of_Hearts on Jun 25, 2010 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions
The fact that we made 3 Million of the 31st pick
made this A LOT better. We can get a PROVEN veteran in free agency, instead of a German center that plays at his local YMCA.
SWING AND A DRIVE, BELTED RIGHT…..and McCann makes the catch by the dugout.
by Hudson's Soul Patch on Jun 25, 2010 4:46 AM EDT reply actions
We didn't get three million
ASG got 3 million. There’s no gurantee that they are going to use it on the team or if they are going to use it to pay bills.
What makes this so unbelievable is that sund didn’t even demand a future 2nd for the pick. the #50 pick got cash and a future 2nd. we just went for the money. hell you can flip the pick next year for all i care at least give fans that are thinking of buying season tickets a reason to do so. don’t be like phoenix and blatantly say “we broke and are going to scale back our operation.” with every move this team makes, it makes it more and more likely that the team is going to be sold at some point.
by Bryant Singleton on Jun 25, 2010 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions
if it's draft day, the Hawks are making a joke of themselves
I have this fantasy where the Hawks are saving money because they plan to trade away all their expensive spare parts and go after Lebron. LOL. Yeah right. Jordan Crawford isn’t a bad piece, but the Hawks could have done better than just him and cash with even a little creativity.
If Alabi or Whiteside pan out...
it’s a horrible move. Of course, we don’t know if those guys turn to crap and Sy actually becomes another Boris Diaw that we actually keep. But as of now, not taking a potential 7’ to join the front line rotation is disappointing to say the least. Now let’s see how they handle their two quality free agents in resigning or trade (JJ and Chill)
On second thought, I'll reserve my thoughts until the Wizards thing shakes out...
if they are trading Chill for Jevale McGee, then the need for a C isn’t there, and it was a great day adding a wing and legit big to the mix, plus a potential guy in Pape Sy. The Chill factor changes draft day, especially if they are adding McGee (or maybe Hinrich/Foye if Joe is gone). Keep Joe, and add more post depth with Siler or others, and the rotation gets pretty solid, especially if Drew is willing to use Joe’s size at SF. That’d make for a nice core of 3 Gs (Teague, Bibby, Jamal), 3 wings (Joe, Mo, Jordan), 2 Fs (Marvin, Smoove), and 3 bigs (Zaza, Horf, McGee). I’d love that group of 11, especially if you add Siler, one of the Euros (Sy, Akyol or Gladyr), and maybe another F for depth and round out the end of the bench.
I think the Hawks draft Euro players in the 2nd round strictly so they can avoid paying them while they continue to play in Europe. They have no intention of ever having them play for the Hawks unless lightning strikes and one of them turns out to be the next Manu or Dirk.
That is not too different from everyone else though...
if you include a willingness to add a decent bench piece like Sasha Vujacic, Nenad Krstic, etc. If Akyol or Gladyr (or Sy) are good enough to be the 12th, 13th, 14th man, then bring them over. Why have Mario West again when one of those guys might be able to give as much or more. That is where the Hawks seem to have failed , in using them to supplement the end of the bench for cheap (although other than Anderson or the aforementioned 3, who else has been drafted from Euro and not played for them? They had Diaw but dealt him in the package for Joe).
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The Hawks seem to think Sy plays in the frontcourt
but Le Havre list him as a 2/3 and he didn’t rebound at all in the French League.
If Joe leaves
I say we go after Rudy Gay. He younger, more athletic, capable of filling the void for Joe and can also play the 2 or 3 if the lineup is going big or small. Since Drew claims to have a motion offense where the ball moves, iso Joe will not be needed. If the Javale McGee trade goes through, I could consider this draft to be a sucess, but for now…..not so much…
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Jun 25, 2010 8:23 AM EDT reply actions
Besides
It’s evident that Memphis is try to rid themselves of Rudy Gay by picking up Xavier Henry….just food for thought. Rudy would be much cheaper than Joe, leaving room to get decent bench player instead of carrying the league minimum. ASG, WAKE THE HELL UP!!! IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY!!!
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Jun 25, 2010 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
We don't have the cap room for Gay unless it's a sign and trade
If Joe leaves, and it’s not a sign and trade, we only have about 5-8 million to spend (although with the mid level exemption too, I’m not sure if that means we can get two guys in that range, or combine it with our cap space and spend more on a single player).
And there is no way that Joe will agree to a sign and trade to Memphis
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Rudy Gay is a free agent
so why would we have to do a sign and trade? If Joe leaves, we wouldn’t have to pay him the max and get Gay for cheaper since we are strapped for cash. Also, lemme make sure I am understanding this correctly. If we resign Joe, will we only have 5-8 spend, or will we only have 5-8 mil to spend with or without Joe? IMO, Joe only have 2 good years left before his decline starts. Signing him to a max deal would be a bad investment…
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Jun 25, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
With Joe, we have the mid level exemption and that's about it...
and an ownership that hasn’t seemed very fond of using said exemption either. Without him, we have between 5-8, plus the exemptions also. At least that’s how I’ve read the situation.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh ok
That kinda makes sense. so it the mid level exemption the amount between the salary cap and luxury tax?
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Jun 25, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
HHB I understand you
But what can the Hawks do, they are strapped for cash. Many people were saying that they would just outright sell the 24th pick and use the cash for free agency (Joe or another free agent). Instead, they still got the cash and got Jordan Crawford. I know everyone on this site is a supporter of the Hawks, the problem is there aren’t enough of us in the city and thus the team cannot make enough money to spend money like the other teams. I do agree the ownership can do better and hopefully they will or just sell the team, but I like what we did last night and I’ll wait and see what they do in free agency before I write them off.
In other news there was a rumor floating around that J-Chills would be moved to Washington for Javel McGee. I think this would be a solid move as you would add a 22 yr old 7 footer who can rebound and get up and down the floor. Be patient everyone, I do have faith in Rick Sund choosing players (we will see about coaches).
"Opposition in my face, trying to play the fence, I'm bigger than this dude, this don't make no sense, I Air Jordan on 'em". - K-Drama
by Sterling Platinum on Jun 25, 2010 8:58 AM EDT reply actions
It's not a single move that defines this group
It’s the overall cash-strapped decision making that prevent taking this team from the level they are even higher.
They made a choice to grab the cash instead of an inexpensive quality player at 31 and it defines their ownership.
Sund said they will take that money and spend it on “some veterans”. How many good veterans is he going to get with that not-quite 3M? Instead of someone who can help, they are going to scan the vet minimum market and come up with more Joe Smith and Jason Collins like transactions.
It would have been cheaper to draft rookies and likely, more productive. But it’s not about that…it was about money.
I like McGee and we’re loaded now at the 2 with both Crawfords and Mo Evans, so accommodating Childress while bringing in an energetic big man (and shot blocker!) would be nice.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 25, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
By the way...I voted "C" for the draft.
Missed opportunities count as much as cashed in opportunities. Liked the Crawford pick, and the rest is spoken for above.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 25, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, +1
Let me ask you something HHB, are we really strapped for cash, or is it the owners are not willing to spend up to the luxury tax threshold?
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Jun 25, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
They are bleeding money.
That’s why they are looking for more investors as minority share owners.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 25, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
According to reports last off-season and throughout this year
The ASG has lost a combined $40-$50mil a year between the Hawks and the Thrashers for the last three years. That’s a lot of money. Many people tend to forget that they also own the Thrashers and Arena, plus whatever business ventures they were a part of or owned before buying the sports teams, which I can only assume plummeted during the economic downturn over the last five years.
It’s not just the Hawks franchise, everything they touch is probably bleeding money. If you have to get a group together to buy something, you probably have no business buying it to begin with.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Are we sure it's McGee for Chill?
if that is the case, I can understand the cash grab a lot easier. Without McGee, we still need that big body behind Horf. With him though, Pleisis might make sense as a stash guy to see if he blows up, but a project like Alabi or Whiteside would be wasted as at best the 5th big behind Horf, Smoove, Zaza, and McGee. That’s makes them almost worthless and the cash could actually help. My opinion on the trade changes depending on Chill to the Wizards.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
No, because nothing can be officially even be discussed until Free agency begins.
And it’s not about who would be a waste due to a rumored deal, because remember, they spent one million dollars on Jason Collins, the 5th big man, last season, and 1M on Joe Smith, the fourth big man. Two rookies would have provided upside and cost savings.
This was about cashing in 3M dollars by sellling the pick….nothing to do with basketball.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 25, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
We can say that now, and it'll probably be the case...
but if that’s what gets them signing a mid level exemption guy instead of a Collins or Joe Smith, would that change your mind? I kind of hope the 5th big (if they get McGee) is Garett Siler, but really I think we’ll learn a lot after free agency gets going. The question is, will it be any different from the past when they went for inexplicable cheapies like Smith, Collins, Mo West, etc.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Thought the telling piece from Sund's comments after the draft..
…was that Pape Sy impressed the Hawks by “paying his own way over here”. That kind of fiscal avoidance had to get the attention of everyone at ASG.
It leads me to wonder if Sy will eventually pay the Hawks to play in the NBA, perhaps opening up a revenue stream for the owners: Charge billionaires/millionaires a hefty sum for a roster spot on the team.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 25, 2010 10:07 AM EDT reply actions
Damn, just damn....
making workout kids pay their way. Damn. I guess that’s why he worked out twice, maximizing his value for the money.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
disappointed . . .
. . . but the fact is, this is a team that, as Darren Rovell reported, lost TWENTY million dollars last year during a great season last year. Until this city figures out a way to put a better financial foundation under the Hawks, they’ll never be able to amount to much. I don’t fault anyone for making move after move to save money when they are bleeding $20MM a year despite providing the best product they’ve provided in ages.
Hey, you're right...They have to do what they have to do.
But they don’t state it that way. They still try to sell this like it’s a basketball decision, which is laughable.
They would like the Hawks to win a title, I believe that, but they are financially unable to put us in position to do so fully.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 25, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm skeptical
about the amount of money they’re losing (if any) on the basketball side of things but if they were augmenting money-saving moves with creative ways to acquire cheap assets I’d cut them some slack. But they’re not.
Bingo.
In fact, they make odd moves that defies such a move as last night by overspending on backend bench “veterans” who don’t provide anything positive for the team, save for raising the average age of the roster.
It would actually be more cost-friendly to take advantage of the draft (and the D-League for that matter) to fill those roster slots than to toss millions at poor performers with NBA tenure.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 25, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
If i remember correctly
veterans with a certain amount of years in the league get a good bit of their paycheck covered by the NBA. i don’t even think joe smith and jason collins was paid that much salary. mario west was paid a half season’s pay, and randolph was on the second year of a contract made for the most part on potential.
you can be cheap by going for old players, but its only a short-term band-aid on a long-time wound. you are essentially admitting that your bench is going to be of no use. at least young players give fans hope that they will surprise you.
even if they didn’t want another rookie on the team, they would have made a MUCH better impression with the fans if they would have just gotten a future 2nd pick from the thunder. OKC maybe would have said no, but it would have shown that you want fair value. at this point fans are realizing that to have a great draft and organization you need assets. the hawks squandered their chance to get some.
by Bryant Singleton on Jun 25, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Very well said...
…and if that’s true about the Vet minimum being subsidized, that’s even more damning.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 25, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
It's the difference between
the veteran’s minimum salary (based on service time) and the 2-year veteran’s minimum salary that goes back to the team. Even with that rebate, the Hawks overpaid Smith and Collins.
Come in off of that ledge folks..
I have a perspective I feel is somewhat unique, maybe you’ll agree. I am a a Hawks fan, but not a diehard. I live here in ATL, but I am from Seattle. You may have heard that the Sonics are now the OKC Thunder. My NBA teams now are ATL, OKC, and to some extent Portland. I know that sounds weird, but what am I supposed to do?
The Sonics had Rick Sund as their GM just before their demise. Sund built his career on the Gary Payton for Ray Allen deal. At the time it was far from clear cut that the trade made sense. Sund ended up being right that GP was on the way out and Allen was a star in the making. The rest is history and this deal was the proverbial slam dunk for Sund- the type of deal an entire career can rest on, and has. Sund was a horrible drafter though. In fact, Sund’s best pick from his seven drafts with ATL and Seattle is Nick Collison. That’s it, a consistent rotation player, not even a consistent starter. Sund selected three project big men in the first round for his last three Seattle drafts. The team needed a big, but none of those guys stuck in the league. This blunder is what got him fired from Seattle. This is why I wasn’t suprised that Sund stayed away from the project bigs considering how badly he was burned there in the past.
I do really like the Crawford pick. Although I maintain my opinion that Sund is a moron, he has been good in one area throughout his career and that is shooting guards. The Ray Allen and Jamal Crawford deals have been the two big hits of his career. Add in the Flip Murray pickup a couple years ago and you start to see a trend. Crawford doesn’t have star potential, but now the two Crawfords on the team give you a solid committee at the 2 spot assuming Joe leaves. Should Jordan impress, you turn jamal into a very attractive expiring deal. The Hawks can now use their remaining cap space and possibly the ability to sign&trade Joe to address their biggest need: PG.
I personally don’t see C as such a pressing need for ATL like so many others do. Horford is a good center that is still improving. He is a bit undersized, but putting in a much less talented center that is bigger will not make the team better. The sort of guys that were in the discussion like Alabi, Whitesides, etc. those guys will be lucky to have careers as good as Pachulia- and thats a few years down the road. Horford/Smith/Pachulia is a very talented frontcourt. Keep in mind that this unit is unlikely to reach its peak until the season after next, and then should maintain that peak for a good 3-4 seasons. These guys are all 24-26ish right now so their peaks should coincide, which is excellent. Outside of picks in the top 10, no one in this draft was gonna be too likely to supplant any of ATL’s top three bigs in the rotation anytime soon. It’s frustrating that this is the reality because we just watched LA ride their fantastic size and length to a title, but theres a lot to like about these bigs.
Hopefully the Hinrich rumors are true. This team desperately needs a point. I think if they can get Hinrich either via Joe S&T or a childress deal, that will improve this team immensely. The drop off from Joe to the Crawfords will be more than made up for by the upgrade at PG. From a team standpoint, a facilitator that can get Al and Josh involved at a higher rate (plus those two guys natural improvement) is invaluable.
just stop it people
losing Joe in no way makes this team better…I keep hearing that and some of you really believe it. LOSING JOE JOHNSON WILL RUIN THIS TEAM’S HOPE FOR NEXT YEAR….unless we are getting D Wade
I disagree
The ASG has already ruined our hope for next season.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Sund said we will get better by addition
if we keep JJ and and add some parts the ECF is in our grasp
Im with you CMART
plus do you remember last time we got rid of our good players, we didnt make the playoffs for 10 years and had a 10 year loosing streak
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
man do I
for like 8 years straight I could go into a sports store and when I could find hawks gear it was like shirts for $3.99, playstation controller for $5, everything was on clearance ( I racked up) but got laughed at all the time……ain’t going back to that we are so close
It was a dark time in our history
I would do just about anything not to go through that again
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
If we get rid of star players
history repeating (though a fashionable cliche) would be an understatement
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
we see it happening again
I think that’s why alot of us are hanging on every report that comes out on the Hawks
these next moves are critical …either get Pape Sy swingman jerseys for $19.99 +20% off or Jordan Crawford replicas for $75
But that's the problem
We aren’t adding much of anything. Let’s say we keep JJ (without getting into money atm). Given that the ASG refuses to keep more than 12-13 roster spots filled, the Crawford pick means that at best, he will be replacing Mario West as the fourth 2 guard on the roster. While yes, that in itself is an upgrade, we didn’t need another 2 and being that he would be fourth in the rotation, nothing to little has changed. Where’s the improvement?
Now, you start talking about what it will take to actually keep JJ, keeping in mind that the coaching hire and the way they handled this draft, then you can bet your last dollar that the ASG will find a way to not pay the other rosters spots to make up for the amount they will have to pay to JJ over the length of the deal. More than likely that means our bench will be no better than it currently is or it will be worse because the cheaper the player, typically the cheaper the skill. Again, where is the improvement?
The only way JJ leaving ruins our hope for next season is if we let him walk and then do absolutely nothing to replace his production. Yet again, if the ASG is so strapped for cash, I could easily see them letting that happen and just pocketing the money it would have taken to sign him while maybe adding a token replacement (Salmons, etc) just to feign an attempt at replacing him. However, if they are stable enough to at least stay the couse with the current payroll, they could come close to fully replacing JJ’s production by upgrading the bench rosters and adding players such as Roy, Gay, etc through some clever dealings. Combine that with Drew’s new motion based offense and allowing Horford and Smoove to be the focus and it’s not difficult to imagine this team still being able to make the playoffs. I mean, it’s not like they need 53 wins to do that in the East.
I understand people’s concern with falling back into a decade long downward spiral, but this isn’t the same. This isn’t the same players, it’s not the same coaches, it’s not the same ownership, it’s not the same management. We’re not talking about a team full of older vets reaching the ends of their potential. We’re talking about one of the youngest teams in the NBA that still has room for growth so long as they are given the freedom to do so. But even if the team does take a step back, it’s just as possible that doing so could make for a better run the next year or the next.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Hinrich?
Hinrich isn’t going to beat orlando, cleveland, or boston.
we’d be better off developing teague.
by Bryant Singleton on Jun 25, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont Hinrich and I know he is not the answer.
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
Center is a need
Both finals contenders have/had front court depth be it already drafted or through free agency or trade. God forbid Josh or Al get hurt who will back them up?
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
But if it's McGee and not Hinrich...
(please let it be McGee and not Hinrich), that gives a pretty good rotation.
PG-Teague/Bibby
SG-Crawford/Crawford
SF-Marvin/Mo
PF-Smoove/Zaza
C-Horf/McGee
That’s at least a start. Could use one more wing (preferably a starting caliber SG. if not Joe resigned, then maybe Ronnie Brewer, Anthony Morrow or Wes Matthews, among others) and a F to work behind Marvin and Smoove (Hakim Warrick? Travis Outlaw? Linas Keliza?). You could get fill both spots either through a sign and trade of Joe (Wilson Chandler from the Knicks?), or through him just walking and using the free agent money open AND the mid level on someone. The big thing is, will they actually use that exemption.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Last night's actions suggest No to the Mid Level
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
by Kris Willis on Jun 25, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
True, it does...
but we won’t know until after the fact if it, in a deviation from their history, is actually them acquiring the cash flow to do that. Again, doubtful based on their past, I know, but IF, big, big, big, IF they do this one time. Especially if you resign Joe, then commit to at least one year of someone at the mid level, give the team a legit chance at making a run if you add McGee, Jordan Crawford, and a mid level vet at F to last year’s core of Joe, Bibby, Teague, Jamal, Marvin, Smoove, and Horf. IF they did that, we’d actually have the depth to make a run. Without Joe and no mid level signing, we’re gonna be in a fight for a 6, 7, or 8 seed.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Love your optimism
Mainly because getting stabbed my the franchise you love hurts so deep and any hope that it will stop is good for the soul. However, it ain’t me, so I can’t believe that what I watched last night is part of some elaborate plan by the ASG to better us once FA begins. That’s giving way too much credit to the ASG, especially considering there is absolutely nothing in the track record that suggest that have the intelligence to think that far ahead.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Plus, it may be tough to work out everyone's schedule for a conference call
once free agency starts. July’s a big vacation month.
Actually
Shouldn’t it be easier for them during July, ya know, since they don’t have enough money to go on vacation. Oh wait, that’s what that $90K savings was for.
I see what you did there ASG.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
*suggests that they*
Next day emotional posting + no editing = forum fail.
Not to mention work hates on FF.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
I can't disagree with anything you said...
but I’ll keep hoping in spite of how foolish it is. We’ve got a nice start to a rotation, we just need one more wing (a starting caliber wing), and two more rotation caliber pieces for the front court. If the McGee mess somehow turns out true (I’m still finding it hard to believe the Wizards would give up on him with the potential front court of McGee and Blatche to go with Wall), then just one wing and one big. You’ve got tradeable pieces in Joe and Chill, or you could resign one of them to be that starting caliber SG, and the mid level. With a legit GM and ownership, that’d be a great start. Of course, we don’t have a legit GM and ownership (speaking definitely on ownership and suspect on Sund), but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt, for now. Of course, by August when they’ve been cheap, lost Joe and Chill for nothing, and added nothing of substance, I’ll feel different, but today at least, they’ll have a chance to prove they aren’t incompetent asshats.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think the report from Greece is true
which makes acquiring JaVale McGee a second-generation fiction. Not to say it won’t or couldn’t happen.
And if that turns out false...
then I’m right there with everyone else on the insanity of selling the pick instead of using it to a) see if Plesis becomes a legit player, b) get Whiteside or Alabi to fill the backup C with legit, low post size and shot blocking that McGee would fill.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
And if it's Hinrich for Chill, that's even more nuts.
Hinrich isn’t bad, but he certainly isn’t a good answer for what ails this team.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 25, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I’d much rather see what Teague can do. He’s younger, faster, and for the ASG, much much cheaper.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
it's definitely Teague's year
If he’s not starting he is going to have tons of minutes….I hope
But everything else should be about getting a C, and backups for our bigs
I seriously doubt
that rumor is true
1) tampering charges would have run rampant
2) childress is gonna demand more than the wizards would want to give
3) a SnT with the hawks would be hard to do since they aren’t trying to add payroll unless their wowed by the offer.
4) even if childress decided to sign a genorous contract with the wizards without the sign and trade, there is a good chance the hawks match.
by Bryant Singleton on Jun 25, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
i think Chilly wants to come back now
he realizes that as long as GM’s are not seeing him on a regular basis he’s not going to get the money he wants. He’s been gone a few seasons and he is still seen in the same spot he was when he left. A bench player/ 6th man starter
I dont know what everyone is worrying about. ITS THE YEAR OF MARVIN WILLIAMS!!!
I feel that with the new coach, Marvin will be a 20 and 10 guy next year.
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
i sure hope so
I have been waiting on that egg to hatch for a while…I gave up after these playoffs I was ready to trade him and some bench players if we could get a great player or two role players in return just somebody who will produce under pressure
Here is a thought
what if we get another SF and move him to the bench. I mean he did win a championship coming off the bench???
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
Did you miss the 24th pick in the draft last night?
We did that, but ownership punted that happy thought a mile away.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
I apologize Jesse
I did see that and thought about how great of a pick it was. Then we traded, dam
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
It's ok
Just click on the link in my sig and you will be briefly relieved of your misery.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
sounds good to me
but I don’t know if Josh can cover the good Small Forwards, I don’t know if he is quick enough, that’s when we would need Marvin. I think Marvin is better for our bench, but his value to another team might be enough to give us more depth
Kind of tough to make one much better with the draft
when you are picking at 24 or 27 or 31.
The truth of the matter, is that Hawks had a chance to be as good as OKC. All those draft picks wasted on Sheldon and Marvin and Chils (wasted since he is gone) and trade for JJ (a good trade but lost a lot of picks) has left Hawks in a difficult spot.
To me drafting Crawford seems like either insurance for JJ leaving, or getting ready for when Crawfish leaves. This is what hurts. Hawks are not really dealing to win or they draft a big man. Instead, they are positioning to save money for future.
You can do both if you are drafting high (we had that chance), it is much harder to do, when you drafting 24.
Also it is just a dream, Wizards will never let go of Mcgee. He is the reason they traded their center to Dallas. He is 22 and seven feet. And world of potential. There is no way they are trading him for Chilz.
The Grades are Interesting
It seems like everyone is happy with Jordan Crawford. How much would those grades have went up had we drafted Whiteside with the 31st pick? Mine certainly would have been an “A” grade vote
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/
Agreed
2nd rd picks are cheap! And I would rather have a young big project, than to have a Collins or Morris at the end of our bench!!!
This ownership does not give me that “loving feeling”…. And I hate when that happens.
" If ifs were fifths, we would all be drunk..."
it was the Shelden, Salim, & Acie picks that hurt back in the day
now looking back…..there was so much talent still on the board……but i thought Acie was going to be good…what if we had a Monta Ellis
another gaurd?
do we not already have enough? especially if we resign jj.
bibby, teague, crawfordx2(jordan and jamal)…and joe(maybe)

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