FanHouse: Hawks Thinking John Salmons if Joe Johnson Leaves
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 23, 2010 8:48 PM EDT
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PrintUgh.
How much don't I want to think that the Hawks would actually spend good money bringing John Salmons in to "replace" Joe Johnson?
Let me count the ways.
1. He is a league average producer offensively, his supposed strong suit.
2. He has already played his Age 30 season.
3. He duplicates what the Hawks already have in Jamal Crawford.
Salmons only seems appealing because most people assume, because they have only heard his name in the last couple of years, that he is somehow a young player. Obviously, considering he is older than Joe Johnson, that is not the case.
His prominence in Atlanta stems from the (6) games he played against the Hawks in the regular season, upon which he tossed down his second best PPG vs any opponent played more than once (21.3). Three of his top five high scoring games of the year came against Atlanta, 32, 32, and 28, all within a tidy six week stretch of games coming down towards the end of the season when the Bucks could not be stopped. Lusting after players because they played well against your own team is called "Bobby Cox Syndrome."
The cost of bringing in a player who is, at best, at the end of his prime, in which he is still only a league average producer, is a waste of what we know to be limited resources.
Moving Crawford into the starting role at shooting guard and drafting a player to replace Johnson in the rotation would be a more cost effective move. Shoot, chasing down this guy would be much better use of funds than chasing down a thirty something year old "scorer". The Hawks could then gameplan on what to do with Johnson's and Crawford's salary slots at the end of next season if they can't find a decent sign/trade partner for Johnson.
That way they can target someone of plus value who will peak with Al Horford and Josh Smith and isn't a desperate "bargain" (read: cheap) signing to keep up with 50+ wins and likely end up producing less than expected to the point where you wonder where the bargain went.
Pass. Pass. Pass.
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But hey
At least the Salmons beard would immediately replace the Marvin Mustache for top facial hair on the roster.
"Bobby Cox Syndrome."
GENIUS!!!!!! SO true…
I definitely DO NOT want Salmons as a “replacement” for Joe… If they think he’s at all comparable, I’ve been right all along… The front office is filled to the brim with idiots.
Joe is a Beast
Al is a Beast
Smoove is a MONSTER!
You didn't need this to know you were right
There is enough evidence to support that without going after Salmons.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Highlight Blog
I like you a lot so-far you seem basketball intelligent. I said this after the season and people starting throwing Salmons around as a possible replacement. I want no part of Salmons no thanks. He is a stop gap and that’s all. I would rather bring Josh Childress back and pay him that money or try to get Ronnie Brewer or Wesley Matthews in Free agency. I really like Brewer on the defensive end and having played for Utah both guys should know how to play a team game on offensive end. Isn’t that what people claim they want. All I ever say Salmons do was Iso against us last year.
Finally, Golden State is supposedly having a fire sale, you can get anyone other than Curry. I tried to trades with the draft machine on ESPN.com. Crawford for Biedrens and Anthony Randolph would work and be great for both teams if Golden State is looking to get rid of salaries. We could also do a bigger one with them but I doubt if they would do that one.
Thanks, Truth!
Would love to get Biedrins, if healthy. Huge production in rebounds and blocks.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 23, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I was actually waiting for Salmons name to come up
He is a logical option from the money standpoint. I would much rather insert Childress in the starting lineup though if we can’t resign Joe. I like Jamal coming off the bench as that is where I see his value as a basketball player.
Peachtree Hoops
Yup
I should have made a bigger point about it, but I would much rather have Childress back than to pay Salmons. Consider that he is walking away from 5M+ this season from the Bucks, so you know he wants more than that for at least 2 or 3 seasons.
Blecch! Pass-Pass-Pass!
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 23, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I see Crawford’s value strictly as a bench player for the Hawks. If they don’t re-sign Joe, they’d want to get a SG who can at least play some defense to start. I’d rather start Mo Evans at SG than spend money on Salmons as a starter. The only way I’d sign Salmons is if they trade Crawford for some other piece or draft pick. Then you could sign Salmons to replace Crawford on the bench.
neck no! salmons doesn't come close to jj
Just another streak shooter past his prime. we need a Montae Ellis or rudy gay type of guy or guys. our team isn’t old
IF YOU CANT ACCEPT LOSING, YOU CANT WIN.
by Hawksgirl on Jun 23, 2010 9:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
heck I mean
IF YOU CANT ACCEPT LOSING, YOU CANT WIN.
by Hawksgirl on Jun 23, 2010 9:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We can do business with Golden State again
We could get Monta straight up for Jamals expiring if the rumor is true that G State is looking to cut salary. Or we could probably get Biedrens and Randolph or Biedrens straight up. Or we could possibly even get Monta and the #6 pick for Crawford #24 and probably Teague or Mo per Chad Ford below.
The Warriors are talking to a number of teams about potential trades and it looks like the No. 6 pick in the draft is up for grabs. The cost, however is high. The Warriors want whoever takes the pick to take on the contract of Monta Ellis as part of the deal. If the Warriors keep the pick, they’re deciding between Greg Monroe and Ekpe Udoh. My source continues to support what I wrote last night — Udoh has the edge.
by Truthspitter on Jun 23, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Please
Don’t do this. Don’t even think about it.
“Bobby Cox Syndrome” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The future is the present. Jason Heyward has arrived.
I would definitely go for Salmons Fish if JJ walks
Actually that is not true that most people look at Salmons performance vs. Hawks and how they judge him or want him. Salmons started to shine once traded from the cows to the deer. It is all about playing time for him. He got it and proved himself at deer, did not get it with VDN and we know what happened to him, he went UFC with cows GM.
I would actually play him ahead of Jamal. Don’t ban me from the site.
Why? Because he is more consistent and actually plays defense. Are people on this site kidding me, when they say play Jamal as a starter? Have you seen Jamal play D?
As for Childress, i love, but contrary to popular opinion, Chils is not a good match for Hawks. No outside shooting, which is what we need. Let me rephrase, not a good match as a starter.
Now note, i am not comparing Salmon fish to JJ, no comparison. But if JJ decides to walk we need consistent outside shooting. Chils does not bring it. And Jamal’s value is off the bench and not as a starter.
2-3 years for Salmons fish is reasonable at 5-6M a year. I think he likes ATL and will play here. Do not discount him so quick.
Come on guts, we need outside shooting for Goodness sake
Made me look...
…but it still comes up negative, Paul. And no, you won’t be banned from the site :-)
Salmons played big minutes per game since 2007-2008, and has still been, at best, a league average player.
Now, in his age 31 year, you are going to give him a 3 year deal at 6M per year and bank on him maintaining a level of production he has only managed to produce for a 30 game stretch in one season? I don’t like how that sounds.
We already have Mike Bibby on such a grace period, and he at least can manage the team from the point, something we didn’t already have. Salmons’ only positive is offense, and he has been fairly average at that, even through what has been his prime years since 2007.
I don’t like it…I’d rather have Childress and a draft pick playing those minutes instead of going backwards by giving Salmons a long term contract for average production.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 23, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It is all about chemisty
In my opinoin, Childress brings no chemistry to Hawks.
IT seems him being gone, makes people long for something that is not. He has ZERO outside shooting. He brings energy and hustle. Hallmaks of bench player.
I say let Drew utilize Marvin off screens. IF you look ar Marvin shooting form, it is to die foe. He has not been coached. He can become a 15-20 point a night scorer.
I would take Salmons fish and OMAR SAMAHAN. The kid is 6’ 11" 265 and all kinds of skills. But people keep wanting to go for forward. Don’t we have enough forwards? Please pick Omar
Let's think about this for a minute.
I doubt the validity of the fanhouse report. Why? If Joe Johnson signs somewhere else, the Hawks still will not have much room to spend money on a free agent. Without Joe’s salary, the Hawks still have roughly $48 million in salary committed. Looking at the last two 24th picks, the Hawks will likely be committing roughly $1.2 million on their draft pick. Then, you have to take into account that they will give a qualifying offer to Josh Childress. That QO has to be somewhere between $5-7 million for next year. Overall, the Hawks will have anywhere from $54 million to $56 million tied up next year. This year’s salary cap was set at around $57 million. I’m not sure what the salary cap this coming year will be. If I’m not mistaken, it actually went down last year. I just can’t imagine the Hawks having more than $4-5 million to spend in free agency if they lose Joe Johnson. John Salmons would have made a little more than $5 million next year had he picked up his option. One would think that he wants to make more than that after the season he had.
I didn’t get a degree in math, but the numbers just don’t add up.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
Maybe around 5M this year with raises
…he’s got to be looking for at least a three year deal considering his age.
by The Human Highlight Blog on Jun 23, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's looking for a bigger pay day.
He knows this is likely his only chance to cash in, and he’s going to try it. If he’s only looking for around $5 million with the potential for some raises, then I’m not convinced signing him would be a bad deal. I’m not for giving this guy $8-10 million, but if the Hawks can get him for $5-6 million, then they have themselves a solid rotational wing that can defend.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
Bigger Pay Day
He may be looking for one but there isn’t any guarantee that there will be a bigger one available. I am no cap expert but could the Hawks theoretically use their mid level exception on Salmons? How much would it be worth?
Peachtree Hoops
by Kris Willis on Jun 23, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think....
….the MLE is somewhere between $5-6 million.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
to atlpaul
jamal starting would be a mistake because he Is sixth man material. as far as chillz, him and marv seem to have offensive problems so my feelings about them both stop there. I know chillz game has grown but not enough. do I believe they could grow? yes. at the jj level of offense? no. and salmons may be good but as a replacement for jj I just don’t see it.
IF YOU CANT ACCEPT LOSING, YOU CANT WIN.
by Hawksgirl on Jun 23, 2010 10:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
salmons
He did kill the Hawks this year, but much of that can be blamed on the switching defense. He kept getting matched up with bigs and ate them alive. Any decent small forward could do that in an ISO.
I still think we are all going to collectively wet ourselves when Marvin goes off next year with JJ ISO’s out of the offensive scheme. (Marvin, I hope you are reading this and heading to the gym to work out)
Salmons is a JOKE.
Who the hell said he could replace JJ?? People must really hate the Hawks for passing around sh*tty rumors like that…
And what’s all this talk about Chills?? Are we bringing him back or dealing him?
I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.
-Michael Jordan, #23
Absolutely NOT!!!!
Who is starting these crazy ideas…JJ is one of the top 10 SG’s in the league. Do what we gotta do to sign him and then go from there.
Top 10 SG
We say that, but looking at the statistical comparison between Joe and Jamal, they are nearly identical players throughout their careers. Across the board, they have almost the same numbers. Joe has always been a slightly more efficient shooter. Both players have the same 111 defensive rating for their career.
An interesting thing is that this past season, Joe was 5th in the NBA among SGs in PER. Jamal Crawford was 6th in the NBA in PER. John Salmons was 8th in PER. Joe and Jamal have almost the exact same PER for their career, with Joe posting a 15.3 career PER and Jamal posting a 15.4 career PER.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
when comparing players
stats are for people who hardly see them play. I think all stats to compare players have to be put in context to what teams they’ve been on, situational play, and other players stats around them when that player is on the floor. Not saying that you’re not doing that but its not clear cut.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
To add,
…in looking at the SG’s in the NBA, only one stands out above the rest as a truly great guard. That’s Dwyane Wade. His PER of 28.2 is almost 6 points higher than the 2nd highest among the shooting guards in the NBA, and his PER is the 2nd highest in the league.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/
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