Mike Woodson out: The Hawks are no longer playing not to lose
Jeff Schultz sums Mike Woodson's firing expiring contract well.
Firings shouldn’t be celebrated. But the message that a firing sends can be.
Mike Woodson is out as Hawks head coach. Don’t celebrate a man’s unemployment. But celebrate why.
Rightly or wrongly, I will admit to celebrating. The why of it, the how of it, the who could be next of it, the change in scheme part of it, most everything but the fact that Mike Woodson will have to uproot his family. Everything else is a positive. There is just a lot to be excited about.
I know no guarantee exists that Woody's replacement will be better. This could be a Maurice Cheeks for Eddie Jordan situation. The new offense might not jell, we may find out how bad Jamal Crawford really is on defense, and some real discipline might turn Josh Smith into a useless disgruntle on the bench. These are all unkowns that someone can point to as they stand strongly against the very impressive known fact that Mike Woodson guided the Hawks to a better record every year he coached.
It is certainly a strong argument against change, especially when you consider 90% of fans hate parts of their coach. If NBA coaches were fired because "this thing he does annoys me and sucks," there would be turnover at about 28 teams every year. One cannot simply say change coaches because they want change because almost every team wants change by the end of 82 games. Coaches are scapegoats. It is clear, and I am guilty of it.
But there is one other known fact. Mike Woodson never tried to alter the game. He provided no advantage when he was the underdog. He never out coached his opponent. I can only think of a handful of times when Woody actually made a move that costs the Hawks a game. (One of the few examples was the Jason Collins sub so Al Horford could play some against Gortat). No, Woody rarely made coaching blunders because he made no coaching moves. It was the same thing every game. The same plays and the same sub patterns, the same post game quotes and the same defense, the same first two offensive plays to start the game and the same non reaction to bad fourth quarter shots down the stretch.
It was the same. Always and forever. All the way down to that patented Mike Woodson stare, and what that same did was provide superior athleticism and a familiarity with a system to win more games season after seasons as skill caught up talent, but it never came close to maximizing anything. You just cannot get the most out of a team when you play not to mess things up.
The wins came, but what never came was an identity. Players got better, but they were never pushed into roles where new skills could have some accountability. And because of all this, the Hawks were a team that was good but not one that was feared. In the NBA, teams fear the unknown wrinkle and the known identity that cannot be stopped. Mike Woodson was never able to produce either. He was a man of consistency, a consistency that should be commended and thanked. But six years in it was clear that consistency was based on a fear to fail and not a drive to win, and in the end, that will only produce mediocrity. And I for one celebrate the Hawks for choosing the unknown ahead over the consistency of being average.
Go Hawks!
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Comments
Next in line?
Beside Avery Johnson, who does the Hawks go after? I think we need a coach that the players would respect and buy in to.
Whoopi Goldberg
the Knicks respected her
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 14, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's throw the picket fence at 'em
Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it? NO, SENSEI! Pain does not exist in this dojo, does it? NO, SENSEI! Defeat does not exist in this dojo, does it? NO SENSEI! - John Creese, Kobra Kai
there are rumors Hawks don't want to pay a coach much
woody or anyone else so i think that would rule out the big names if true.
Smartest thing you have posted
They dont want to pay anyone so raising the bar, raising the ceiling all those signals that are being sent out are a lie. This team would probably go back to St.Louis before really raising the bar
by Truthspitter on May 14, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously man
Are you related to Woody or something? Because otherwise I really don’t see the point in that comment.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Seriously
That guy is barely 40 and was barely a competent NBA player, I would not listen to him
by Truthspitter on May 14, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry, I must have missed your storied NBA career
How great were the careers of Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, and Greg Popovich? I guess we can see why those scrubs sucked as coaches compared to greats like Magic, Bird, Jerry West, and Zeke Thomas. If their time as an NBA player meant a damn thing, then why not hire Dominique? Fucking douchington.
Profane
You can be profane all you wish, but my opinion does not change. I would definitely not listen to anything Monty Williams is trying to tell me, he has never won a thing, never been a coach, and you telling me he is suppose to lead a team into the Eastern Conference Finals or NBA championship level, I don’t buy it and his team will not. Not the place for him
by Truthspitter on May 14, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So, how long was your career in the NBA and how many All Star games did you make?
until then, I’ll guess Monty Williams knows a bit more about the game than you. Considering your past comments, whether or not you’d have the intelligence to “listen to anything” an NBA vet would tell you about the NBA speaks volumes.
And while he isn’t a “head coach”, he has been “a coach”. He’s been a coach for 5 years now. But again, knowing that would take a level of intelligence you have yet to show you possess.
Sticking with statement
I would not listen to a thing Monty Williams tells me
by Truthspitter on May 14, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd listen to him before you...
considering he has actually spent a long career in the league, and several years as a coach since retiring. And you, well, I guess if you can’t say anything nice you shouldn’t say anything at all, especially since it can get you banned for accurately describing someone.
He had a strong staff too...
I’m pretty sure he’s given Rick Carlisle a lot of credit for coaching and scheming. It was also a veteran team that didn’t need a whole lot—Miller, Smits, the Davises, Mark Jackson, Schrempf, etc.
by Mr. Sanchez on May 15, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Well said.
Woody never had the fire or passion I wanted. He coached strictly to not lose his job at times. He mismanaged foul situations and allowed too much “me first” basketball. The Magic series was a strong indication of what happens when you refuse to make any adjustments on defense. Hell, 90 year old Hubie was ripping the switches. It became apparent that we were only going so far with Woody as coach, and I commend Sund on making the change. Woody wasn’t the worst, but we maxed out under him. A change needed to be made.
by Duff_Man on May 14, 2010 2:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Seriously
Raising the bar is a lie. I was talking to a friend moments ago and he made a good point, when a coach does what Woodson does its easy for everyone on the outside looking in to think someone else can take what he has done and build on it. It’s all on Sund from now on IMO, sund has a long history with building teams wrong IMO. Why is Nate Mcmillan such a great coach now but he wasn’t in Seattle. I wanna see what this guy does, I’m pretty sure it will be a step back or a couple of steps back
i think you raise a good point
you have to get to your players or your not going to be good. from post game quotes, this years playoffs, and antidotes throughout this season, it is clear Woody was not getting to his players.
i don’t think he is that good of a coach period, but he was not reaching his players anymore either.
the true reason WHY is that we cannot afford him
the safe thing to do, which is what sund has done in his tenure hese (RE sign bibby, RE sign zaza, both safe), would be to resign him. but we cant afford him
if that's true than Sund put this team in the financial problems its in.
Why sign those guys and they didn’t put up dividends? Anyway, I believe the next coach to really lead this team is dependent on the UFA signing.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Don't get me wrong
I’m not happy or mad that they let him walk, but raising the bar as posted on ajc.com by Jeff, that’s just a lie, you will without a doubt need to spend money, find a true C, find a starting PG,SG,SF to do that, and this team is not going to do that,
I'm tired of that BS
Horford is a top starting center. The only guys he can’t defend are the guys that no one can defend.
God I Pray Arthur Blank Buys The Hawks Lol!
Watchin' Bobby Cox Turn Falcon Red Since 1991...
(A True ATLien)
by Dirtybyrdatl4life on May 14, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions
If only we can get Doc Rivers if he doesn't extend his contract with Boston
he along with Woodson were former Hawks players
...in dixie land i'll take my stand: to root for Atlanta
But the reason Rivers isn't staying in Boston...
is to enjoy his family. Maybe he can do that better in Atlanta since it’s closer, but I wouldn’t expect him. And as said by others, we’re likely going cheap with the new hire considering the poor billionaires running the team, so we’re likely going for an assistant, not a head man. Which means if we’re plucking from Boston, it’d be Thibodeaux not Rivers.
I agree
Hawks will probably promote one of their current assistants. It is the easy way out. Continuity for the sake of not messing with a 53 win team. Some warmed up politically correct nonsense like that will accompany the announcement. Who is the better Hawks assistant relative to offensive strategy? That is the top candidate, i am willing to bet
darn shame
...in dixie land i'll take my stand: to root for Atlanta
They say Larry Drew Sr. is the offensive guy
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 14, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
And that to me is one of the dumbest coaching moves ever made...
outside of retirement or a coach moving on, why would you let a head man go, only to replace them from within? I will never understand that philosophy, although it seems more prevalent in college sports than pro. Fire Tommy Bowden, keep Dabo Swinney. Fire Larry Coker, keep Randy Shannon. If the assistant coach was actually worth it, wouldn’t things have been better under their former boss? Why were they the assistant and not the head coach with the former head man under them? I will just never understand the logic behind letting a head coach leave and replacing them with an assistant, outside of a retirement or coach jumping up.
The Randy Shannon experiment might be working though
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 14, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, we'll see if it continues to work going forward...
but then, that is likely an exception to the rule. Shannon was there pre-Coker for actual success so he predates the decline and it can be argued they just picked the wrong Butch Davis assistant. Also, he’s coaching in Miami, not a very difficult place to load up on talent and win a bunch of ACC games.
Hey!
GaTech fans say the ACC is a tough conference. They’re smart, you know.
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 14, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i think they may go with Larry Drew
because he can control Smoove (i have seen it in games), and as hooter baby says, he is an offensive man. I think those are two big pluses for him
Screw Thibodeaux
I really hope we don’t go for him. Remember the game against the Hawks when Rivers was ejected?
And is Doc really an improvement?
Boston fans hate his tendencies as a coach. Yeah, he got a ring, but so what?
but so what?
Why da hell do you think the players play the game…….TO WIN A RING! He’s won a ring, he knows how to win! Why wouldn’t we want him? -1 for you sir…
by Anonymous HawksGuy on May 14, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe a ring isn't the best indication of a good coach
A lot of great coaches don’t have rings, just like a lot of great players don’t have rings. And a lot of nondescript coaches have won a ring, just like a lot of Scrub players have a ring or rings.
Agreed
But Doc is agreat coach PLUS he’s won a ring. Why wouldn’t we take him. His track record proves he can take a team to the championshop, am i missing something here?
by Anonymous HawksGuy on May 16, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
His players respect him
and Doc has the biggest heart and just like when he played for the Hawks, he gives it 300% 500% of the time. There is not a better man for the Hawks as a coach. I repeat not a better man for the Hawks as a coach
Jerry Sloan is arguably the best coach in NBA history. No ring.
Rings don’t mean anything. WOODY has a ring.
as an assistant coach
rings is why players and coaches play and coach the game. THEY MEAN EVERYTHING!
by Anonymous HawksGuy on May 16, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just glad Woody’s gone. Whoever replaces him at least gives the possibility of fixing what Woody was unable to do. While it would be awesome if the team signed a quality, veteran coach, I’m okay with hiring a cheap assistant coach or college coach as long as that person has a track record of running an offense and defense better than Woody.
Woody a victim of circumstances
Was Woody really a coach that was not flexible? or did he become a victim because no coach wants to lose as bad as he lost when he had zero players and had to start from nothing.
Because of those huge losses in the first few years, Woody latched to what little rays of hope he could. Like a man that is sinking deeper and deeper in a well, and finally is thrown a rope, he latched on, and held tight, for dear life.
The little talent that was around, he used it. The game with the Celtics in playoffs, where JJ went all crazy, may have cemented it in his mind. If he did not have the talent, he would make the few around who had the talent the centerpiece of his operations, at the cost of future, at any cost of adjustment. He could hold on and get to safety or as close to it as possible Remember he was almost let go two years ago.
That series may have changed everything. It may have even made Woody force ISO Joe. It became his way out of the well.
We may very well find out Woody is a good coach at his next assignment, where he may start with some key even talent. In Atlanta, it was the right move and the easy move to do at this point. The move everyone expected. The hard part is just starting. I am not happy, but I understand and I agree.
Voted
I voted waiting on the next coach because I am about the team, city, and franchise. Not some Woody hate, if Woody is gone and the next coach is horrible, just as bad in defensive strategy and offensive sets, why would I be happy that Woody is gone unless I hate Woody as a person?
Better, worse, I just want it to be different
Even if a new coach brings new problems, at least we will have learned more about our team through the experience. We would have learned nothing by keeping Black Kojak as coach.
I dont condone or endorse any of these candidate
Tom Thibodeau, Brian Shaw, Eddie Jordan, Randy Whitmann,
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 14, 2010 3:03 PM EDT reply actions
Tom Thibodeau
Intrigues me because he is being given credit for a lot of the defensive success of the Celtics even though I don’t know how influential he really is with that aspect
by Truthspitter on May 14, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i always like thibodeau for the reasons you mention
until i watched him have no game management after Doc Rivers was ejected against us. did not make one sub the rest of the game.
obviously you can learn that stuff, but still, freaks me out a bit.
I'm also waiting for the next hire
One thing I can definitely say about Woody-he did improve as a coach in his time with the Hawks. Some things did change marginally. During the Magic series, it was apparent at times that the strategy was to NOT switch Horford off of Howard. That constitutes an important change. The “sub out with 2 fouls” rule was much more lenient this season.
The complete lack of recognition about the team’s strength and weaknesses never changed, though.
We’ll see. There’s a chance of the next coach being even more incompetent. I’ll say this-they can’t afford to say a couple of million dollars by going cheap on a head coach. A couple of million dollars worth of players is entirely negligible, so let them spend what it takes to actually get a quality coach in here.
I was thinking it, but you said it
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 14, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd
Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it? NO, SENSEI! Pain does not exist in this dojo, does it? NO, SENSEI! Defeat does not exist in this dojo, does it? NO SENSEI! - John Creese, Kobra Kai
I know I'm gonna be crucified...
But you gotta ask…. How bad of a coach would Nique be???
Joe is a Beast
Al is a Beast
Smoove is a MONSTER!
Not very good
It’s generally understood that superstars have a hard time as coaches. So much of their ability is natural that they never have to think about it, and in the end, they get extremely frustrated because their players simply can’t “Do it the way I used to .” Jordan will never be a coach, LeBron will never be a coach, and Shaq will never be a coach. Not a reasonably good one, anyway.
I’m not trying to insult Nique’s intelligence by saying he lacks awareness, but the great ones were great because the game came as second nature to them. Being in charge of a unit and creating game plans, recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of the players under him is going to be difficulty. Put a ball in Nique’s hands 15 years ago, and he knew exactly which guys had the lateral quickness to stay in front of him and which didn’t, but to give someone like Josh Smith (who has strengths, none of which is lateral quickness) and he might have a tough time recognizing how to utilize him.
It doesn’t work in other sports, either, usually. The types of players who make the best coaches are always the limited athletes who get the most out of their abilities. That’s why I’d have a lot more confidence in say, a Tyrone Corbin than in a Dominique; they’re more relatable for the guys who actually need coaching.
Did you already know Corbin was being considered?
by Mr. Sanchez on May 15, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Whoa
I havent heard that name in a long time
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 15, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
depends on his assistants...
considering they’d probably be the ones doing all the coaching. Not saying Nique is lazy, just that he’s never done it before and would be very inexperienced at best.
Don't know if he's coaching material.
But who knows. He had the same opportunities to influence the hawks season being the vice president of basketball operations
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Dwayne Casey
…is probably first in line to be interviewed once those start
'Bama fan since birth, NIners & Hawks fan since '86, Braves fan since '90
Part 1 -Fire Woody, hire new coach with legitimate offensive and defensive game plan
Part 2 - Sign & trade Joe, deal Chils and/or Marvin for a shooter at the 3
Part 3 - FIND PG AND C, STAT!
Hopefully Avery Johnson is Second...
and subsequently chosen.
Joe is a Beast
Al is a Beast
Smoove is a MONSTER!
by Garrison Hayes on May 14, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
All Coaching Speculations Aside
Let’s be real here… We don’t have a Championship team right now. A new/better coach could improve our chances… But in the end, we are missing a few pieces.
What do the Hawks need to
1.) Win the Eastern Conference Finals
2.) Beat Kobe in the Finals.
???
There are a lot of big name players free this summer… Who should Sund make a run for, if anyone? I’m starting to believe the speculations that management will go CHEAP again and sign Dwayne Casey, allowing Joe to leave and letting Childress take him place…
Boring at best.
Joe is a Beast
Al is a Beast
Smoove is a MONSTER!
You are so far off
Winning the eastern Conference Finals is not the first step. Getting to the Eastern Conference Finals is the first step. Or maybe having a winning road record.
Here's the new line up!
Good move with Mike Woodson gone! Let Joe Johnson go too! Steal Butler’s coach Brad Stevens! Bring in Garret Siler at center! Keep Horford as a starter at power forward! Trade Bibby for more cash! Bring Bosh and Childress back to Atlanta! Give Mario West more playing time off the bench! Teague in as starting point guard! Crawford in as starting shooting guard! Teach Josh Smith to stop whining and stop shooting long jump shots OR learn to actually shoot and make them! Also teach him to DRIBBLE! Make him all that he can be! Teach the team to MOVE THE BALL!
You want a good new coach?
Patrick Ewing! Worked with SVG so he knows defense. Hall of Fame player. Respected by players. Probably not overly expensive. Fulfills the minority interview requirement.
You guys should insist he get a chance.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."; Carlos Boozer
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
The only way to stop LeBron is Smith and Wesson, but even that's a double team.
I GOT IT
how bout we get Charles Barkley as our head coach and hire Dennis Rodman as the assistant. who will want to mess with us then?
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
Its a nice idea except
Barkley can’t read.
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 14, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
neither could woody
obviously the back of Josh’s jersey said Smith, not smoove
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
Or we get the combo of Mutombo and Reggie Miller.
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
Samual L. jackson, he did a good coaching job in that one movie.
Denzel Washington could also be a strong possibility
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
Ooooooo
I like Sam Jackson. He can yell with the best of ’em.
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 14, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
and more women at the games with Denzel
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 14, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats right
the next thing we should do is bribe stephen jackson into retirement, so we can get him on the coaching staff
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
Denzel helped Ray Alle….I mean Jesus Shuttlesworth with his game
Watching Bobby Cox pick boogers since 1995
by a hooter's baby on May 15, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point
besides I think coach carter was undefeated until that final game
So throwed that Randy Moss jumpin up couldn't even catch it
AND THE WINNER IS........
Dwane Casey welcome to Atlanta where the Iso is are steelo
Hmm
Now that I think about it, the hawks should have fired Woodson last year. It would have been better for both parties. Woodson would still be paid and can look for work and hawks could have hired a big name coach to be serious about winning a championship. When the hawks did not extend Woody a contract, that in itself was Woodson being fired without a replacement to come in. The Hawks literally cost themselves a season by not hiring a new coach instead of worrying about paying two coaches.
Now, the hawks have to find a coach, resign Joe, sign some quality pieces, and do so without any flexibility or leverage. BTW, I need to get some more sources, but I heard Woody ripped the hawks organization on NBATV
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
The Hawks literally have no leverage on Joe
or any leverage in talks with free agents with no coach on board. Sund could have signed some guys to one year contracts last year to free up cap space, but I guess no one would have signed deals like that.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday

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