Matching up well is just another word(s) for nothing left to lose, that or bad coaching
by hawksdawgs on Mar 9, 2010 9:55 AM EST
42 comments
"We should have dominated this series but they match up well and D'Antoni's a great coach."
It bears repeating, if the Hawks hit the same number of contested and open shots as the Knicks, they win. They didn't. They were not as good at a fundamental part of basketball. I believe most people call it, making baskets. But this quote naturally leaves me again disgusted with what seems to be a lack of any kind of positve impact Mike Woodson has on a game.
I looked at the starting lineup Sergio Rodriguez, Bill Walker, Wilson Chandler, Danilio Gallinari, and David Lee. Those were the starters. Who matches up well against the Hawks? Maybe Sergio against Bibby, but everyone else is at best a draw. Horford usually dominates Lee and played him to a draw last night. Gallinari obviously has a different skill set, but he sure is not better than Josh Smith, and as far as matchups, jump shooting power forwards usually are not the issue. And you don't want me to get to their backups. Eddie House vs. Jamal Crawford. Please. The Hawks don't matchup poorly against the Hawks. D'Antoni just put Bibby on Gallinari, and Woodson let him. That is a bad match up.
Last night was the difference between milking advantages down to the last drop and then cussing the advantage cow for not giving more and sometimes remembering you have them. The Hawks went inside, when they felt like it, and when they felt like it, they ran simple post ups or hand offs and said "ok take advantage." Post players can move, you can set screens for big men, you can drive more than once a possession. The Hawks offense is simplistic. We all know that, but it seems easy enough to do some things that make offense actually easier. Now, not every coach just lets you screen one of the worst defenders on the hottest shooter in the game, but still, how about a back screen by Joe Johnson to free up an easy post up for a big.
On the defensive side of the ball, it is clear, that 82 games was too long to play 4 on 5 defense anytime someone drives the ball. At max effort, the Hawks are pretty darn good on defense, but the max effort is not equally demanded across the starting five, or better put, max effort by some is needed to mask the max effort of others. I don't know any job where that goes over well day in and day out. It is a shame our coach could not figure out a way to lighten the load for Horford and Josh. Instead, he rode the horses for as long as he could. Now that it is obvious the Hawks do not have a plan B, it may be time for the organization to start thinking of one for their coaching job.
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When I read the quotes
about the “match-up problems” my head almost exploded because I realized our team was the one complaining about match-ups. The next time I hear someone say Woody is a defensive minded coach, I’m going to punch them. And, it would be in his best interest to try to get people to not think that about him since he’s likely going to have a hard time convincing the Spirit that defense is his calling card once this season ends.
@cocoqt81
But is there a difference maker coach out there?...
maybe someone can help turn it around, and I seriously doubt Woody, but who else is there? I’m not for making a change just to change, there needs to be a better choice. Maybe Sam Mitchell?
And did anyone else think Joe would look pretty good in that spread out offense? Let him go, add two more perimeter players with his money, see if Marvin is really worth it, and then work 2011 free agents to match up with Horf, Smooth, and maybe Marvin and Teague.
agree on change just for change is dumb
but outside of continuity, Woody does not bring a lot to the table. he just does not.
i leave room for not understanding how difficult it is to cover up Bibby and Crawford on defense or the fact that he may know how limited Josh and Al are on offense. i don’t go to practice, and all that good stuff.
but from a scheme perspective. i don’t really see how some cannot match what he is doing, and if you bring in a guy who has proven he can scheme for at least one side of the ball, it is tough not to argue.
If Bibby and Crawford are such liabilities defensively...
why do they spend so much time side by side late in games? One way or the other, it’s a sign of poor coaching.
Rick Sund
has eluded to the fact that he wants to build this team like that Pistons team that won it all. On the surface they looked like a bunch of Janet Jacksons who proved you can win without a Michael, except in reality they did have a Michael, it was their head coach. If we aren’t going to have a Michael Jackson type of player, we at least need a Michael Jackson type of coach. Woody is no Michael.
@cocoqt81
Maybe he'll go get Larry Brown
which would be EXACTLY what this team needs.
wrong Michael
The Hawks need a Jordan more than a Jackson.
Elite head coaches
I want someone to do some research on how we fare against teams with really good head coaches. I’m talking about the coaches that know how to create matchups. The Larry Browns, Phil Jacksons, Gregg Popovich’s of this world. I think part of the reason we struggle against the Magic is they create matchups that we can’t handle.
The only problem is we have the players to create matchup problems for the other team almost every night. What other team has 4 players on the court most of the time that are athletic 6’6"-6’11" guys. But we don’t work to create the matchups and that is why we lose to inferior teams. We need a smarter coach period.
Van Gundy is a good coach, too
make no mistake about that.
Another thought
Could we get Jeff Van Gundy? Maybe he would know how to stop his brothers team, and he was a pretty good coach in Houston and New York all those years.
It seems a little too cutthroat to say, but....
A team needs different types of coaches at different stages of a team’s development.
I strongly believe the Hawks wouldn’t be as good as they are right now without the discipline and defensive focus Woody has instilled in this team (Especially Josh Smith).
BUT, I think we’ve come to the point where we need a great coach who Woody can pass the baton too in order for this team to win a championship. The Hawks no longer have problems with effort, the problems are more nuanced and are mostly centered on the offensive side of the ball.
With Woody as our coach, our GM literally had to search out great 1 on 1 players in order to have some semblance of an “offense.” It’s about time we get an all around coach like Stan van Gundy or Avery Johnson who can maintain the intensity/discipline Woody instilled, but is also capable of developing our players offensively.
i agree
Woody was a very good coach for the task he has given. for all the hate post, I have written, i owe him about 40 good ones to even out how he has really performed.
but it is clear, woody has taken the team as far as he can.
Larry Brown might also be available.
That’d be like having a Woody that can also coach offense/NBA nuances. As presently constructed, the Hawks are about as perfect a Larry Brown team as possible. However, the symbolism of cutting the longest tenured Eastern Conference coach for the least loyal coach in history might be too much for the organization to overcome.
In my season preview
I only focused on Joe and Woody because I felt like this team would only go as far as they could take them. They are like a package deal in a lot of ways. All of their short comings are directly related to one another. Joe does what he does because Woody allows him to do so. Woody does what he does in my opinion because he feels indebted to Joe. They need to be split up or they both need to go sign with a team who is rebuilding. We can’t keep both of them, that is painfully obvious.
@cocoqt81
i was thinking about this when i wrote the post
i think i have, but it certainly is rare. and may not ever happen.
Screening is only allowed by Al and Zaza....I really don't recall Smoove setting many screens
I’ve seen Paul Pierce ( I know you guys hate him) set some of the best screens. He set the screen in which Big Baby got open for the game winner against Orlando and he set the screen for Ray Allen in the game winner against Chicago.
Bet it hit the rim!
WTH?!
Lebron sits and Jamison leaves with injury, but Cavs still beat Spurs. And yet the Hawks have a healthy roster with no starters out and can’t beat the NY Knicks.
I guess this is what the team calls focus. At the rate the team is losing now, I’m starting to see that 45 wins for the season that ESPN was talking about. This coming from one of the Hawks’ most optimistic fans. Not looking good right now. Check the schedule. I am no longer able to pick out guaranteed wins like I was before the all star break.
Losing to the Knicks, Heat, and barely beating the Bucks is starting to put doubts in my head.
Josh and Joe are playing too many minutes. The so called deeper bench is not getting enough burn. The sixth man is not making that much of a difference anymore.
I’m starting to think the team will not make it out of the first round. The fire that the team had before is just not there anymore.
You’re right, it’s just starting to get depressing. At least they should be Washington on Thursday. Maybe :-/
I wouldn't be so sure about Washingto either
They gave the Celtics all they could handle Sunday night. It feels like we’re no longer matching up with just the players but we’re up against how good of a coach that team has as well. Flip Saunders is another good one.
Bet it hit the rim!
It's a lot like last year, except with a few more wins.
And it’s a damn shame to waste such an unbelievable healthy season with so many players in their prime.
ahhh no
if the team continues to be unable to close out games the win total will be less than 47 and they will exit the playoffs in the first round and find themselves in 5th place.
Is it me or are other teams playing with more passion, intensity, and desire?
I would bet so
…and I would bet there is an inverse correlation to starter minutes played.
That's a great point
The Hawks have been sooooo fortunate on the injury front and yet they’re barely better than last year. It’s disheartening that this team is not playing up to their capabilities for 48 minutes. And about Joe and screens and moving w/o the ball and the likes, it is again disheartening that we don’t do anything to get him easier shots. I mean, if we’re going to run the offense through the guards (bad idea, but it’s what they do) then let’s at least get them clean looks at the basket.
@cocoqt81
At the beginning of this season
I thought the Hawks had a definite chance of getting 60 wins. After seeing the games this year they probably would have made that mark if they would have paid attention to detail; close out on shooters, drive the basketball, and fight for rebounds. Would it be correct to say that a lot of the team’s losses were winnable games? Let’s be positive. Maybe they actually look at game tape this time.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
what if...
Thought experiment: where would the Hawks be if they had Jerry Sloan or Phil Jackson as their head coach instead of Woodson? I have to think they’d be leading the division if not the conference.
Coaching Change?
The playoffs should decide Woody’s fate. If they squeak by in the first round again and lose in 4 or 5 to Cleveland or Orlando, I think there is a strong case to look elsewhere.
If they pull off a feat similar to 2008 and summon up their best for the playoffs, take Cleveland/Orlando to 7 or somehow make the conference finals, I think it would be hard to argue that he didn’t earn an extension.
I remember they seemed really hopeless in 2008 right before the Boston series, several bad losses in winnable games.
That game 7 was really pathetic though. I would hope they could at least stay in a game 7 until halftime if they make it again.
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