Golden State Warriors 108, Atlanta Hawks 104 or thanks Dali Lama
I have now watched the fourth quarter four times. It was painful. I threw up twice. So you're welcome. One thing that is fundamentally clear is that Tim Legler is a complete idiot and ESPN does not care about informing its viewers on what is happening outside the small box the cameras works. As a rule, actual NBA fans care about more than the highlights. Without DVR, it is safe to say I would only know the Hawks sucked in the fourth quarter beyond what most scales of suck say are possible. Which I guess is all you really need to know.
The other day I caddied for the Dali Lama and at the end of the round I said, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will know what the worst fourth quarter in the history of basketball looks like." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
Still, I went back and recorded the number of passes per possession by the Hawks (I counted offensive rebounds as a new possession) in the fourth quarter after the ball crossed half court. Out of the sample size of 26 that I recorded, Atlanta had more than two passes four times. That is, for the most part, including the Bibby pass to Josh Smith on the perimeter immediately after bringing the ball over. I was not looking to make a point. The point was made. Most of these possession had one real pass. Of the four 3 pass or more possessions, two ended with Zaza Pachulia getting good shots of which he missed both. They all ended with good looks.
Isolation Joe was not the problem. Ball movement was the problem. It just stopped, but when your MVP and go to guy enjoys that mode of offense best, it is hard for him to initiate out of it. The two worst examples did involve Joe though. Josh Smith got an offensive rebound and Joe Johnson never passed the ball again. Josh Smith got another offensive rebound and Joe Johnson never passed the ball again. After the third miss of the possession, the Warriors had a run out.
No can deny the isolations led to low energy. Plain and simple. How do you pick up the energy out of that? The Hawks answer last night was more isolations. Yet everyone held on to the ball. It was not just a Johnson problem. In the end, the question is simple. if Joe is going to get the ball in the fourth, he is going to isolate. Even when other guys get the ball, that fact kills ball movement. Why pass out of it? If it goes to Joe, the dribbling will begin until a shot goes up. Can you remember the last time in the fourth quarter, a ball went to the post, left, and then returned? Or how about the last time, Joe kicked it around the perimeter in the fourth quarter? I know sometimes Joe Johnson kills in the fourth quarter, but I know it is never leadership when he does.
Also of note, there were two semi drives to the basket the entire fourth quarter. Crawford dished to Horford and was blocked and Josh Smith split a double team and was fouled. Neither driver got within five feet of the basket.There were no real pick and rolls. And the one time Marvin touched the ball the entire fourth quarter was one of the three pass possessions. And yep, I just threw up again.
I guess everyone is not in to Davidson basketball, just one more reason to dislike Woodson
No one expects the Hawks to watch game tape after game tape on Stephen Curry, but it just so happens I have. Probably seen fifty games in his career and ten or so live. You just can't let him dribble around. You just can't. I understand not game planning for him. Monta might freeze him out, his shot might be off, he is a rookie, etc, etc, but if you have seen one game, just one, you have to know that letting him move freely is a terrible idea. In college, Curry struggled the most when a long, quick, athletic guy was focused on shutting him down and random double teams came on top of that. He could not handle the pressure defense and often could not pass over the tall double team. What did the Hawks do? They switched screens. They gave him four feet to think about what he wanted to do. They treated him like he was Derrick Fisher. No adjustments were made, and Stephen Curry played like he was in the Southern Conference. But don't worry Woody, Curry is a class act. I am sure a thank you note is in the mail.
Loser Dots
- Don't let anyone tell you different. Josh Smith had a horrible fourth quarter on both ends of the floor.
- Watching the Jamal Crawford technical a few times, it was clear he got pushed or flopped pretty convincingly, but Crawford demonstratively ran toward the refs. He deserved the T. It would have been only idiotic if the Warriors actually got the ball as a result. They didn't. So it is something worse than idiotic, but I am struggling to come up with the word. We will stick with beyond idiotic right now.
- There is something worse than iso Joe. It is iso Josh. Pick and roll for the love of all that is holy!
- Mike Bibby took no fourth quarter shots. If he had any assists, they were cheap ones. Why is Mike Bibby in instead of Marvin Williams?
- One fourth quarter possession I especially enjoyed was Joe Johnson dribbling it up and immediately posting himself up, then passing out to Crawford. Al Horford came up on the other side to set a pick for Crawford with the defense all over rotated to Joe's side, and Crawford just passed back into Joe before Al even got there. Joe put up an airball floater.
- Josh Smith played help defense at least twice when he didn't need to and didn't get the block. It led to two easy baskets.
- Run outs layups and dunks might become the bain of existence every night. Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford get beat down the floor a combined six times a game. That is 12 points if you are keeping track.
- Where was Mo Evans?
- On that note, Teague had a run out "and 1" last night. The Hawks never have run outs. If we have no interest in starting the break unless Horford or Josh will it, why are the guards not attacking the glass. Outside of Horford and Smith, the Hawks had 15 rebounds in 156 total minutes. There are words for this, and they are not nice words.
- Something positive you say? The third quarter, thinking this game was in the bag, allowed me turn to USA/Canada for the final goal. I also liked Jeff Teague's four assists and Al Horford's alley oop dunk. There you go. Glass half full.
Final Long Thought
Bloggers run the the thin (or maybe not so thin but we make it thin) line of giving analysis of a game, of wanting something to say, and over stating things. We like accurate statements first, but we like our accurate statements to have punch. Sometimes that leads to overstepping. There are 82 games in this season. The only must win or defining game is the one that keeps you in or out of the playoffs. To give up on the team or the system for this year after this game would be as silly as to guarantee a sweep of Boston in the playoffs based on the regular season results. It says something, but far from everything.There are low points in the season. In every season. Let's hope this is a low point and not a trend.
And yet I cannot help but mention two things. Knowing every single player has something brought something to that horrendous fourth quarter. Shoot, I am fine if you want to blame Mario West's four minutes stint for part of the debacle. Everyone can shoulder some blame.
Still, still people. Our best player self admittedly plays the game with his number one motivation to not be embarrassed. You see it on fast breaks where he gives up instead of taking a charge or committing a hard foul or shows a willingness to get posterized. You see it in stat lines like 31-5-3 on over 50% shooting. You see it on help defense and rebounding effort compared to one on one defense. And you see it in a continually willingness to allow the team to go into isolation basketball. Isolation basketball is not embarrassing for Joe Johnson. Losing and only scoring 8 points is embarrassing. Heck, winning and only scoring 8 points is embarrassing. I don't call out Joe Johnson because he deserves it more than another guy on the team. I call him out because he wants to get paid and have the responsibility more than anyone on the team.
On the other side of things is Mike Woodson. He called a timeout with about six minutes left. The lead was gone. It was a new ball game, and the Hawks came out and played the exact same ball game. On both ends of the court. This is two games in a row where Woody has gone to the press conference and directly criticized something he is directly in charge of as a coach. I give Woody a lot of credit for persevering through some pretty horrible line ups, for improving as a coach, but if anyone thinks he is going to out coach someone deep in the playoffs, that person is crazy. That is not being mean. That is not being overly harsh. That is not overreacting to a game. That is fact. Mike Woodson has a ceiling. It is coach of a playoff team. Anything after that is on the players. Personally, I don't want a coach that's top end speed is met by 15 other guys every year.
Go Hawks!
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Last night was painful to watch
We played a horrible 4th quarter plain and simple and that’s not even mentioning the refs ability to swallow the whistle at times. We got two techs on two players who NEVER get techs but no 3 second violations on GSW when clearly they clogged the lane for most or all of the second half. I wish I had an analysis of just how often that called was missed. It’s mind blowing how Woody chose to keep Bibby in the game instead of Marvin in the 4th quarter. He did not help one iota. He played heavy minutes and scored 3 points. We are going to have to make a decision regarding him really soon because clearly he’s not the same person he was even at the beginning of the season. Limiting Marvin’s minutes in lieu of Bibby’s “offensive possibilities” are indeed offensive. Free throw shooting has become a problem as of late as well. And where was Mo? Where was Joe Smith? Where was Anthony Johnson? Sorry he was traded. My point is: short bench=gassed players. Would it be too much to ask for a coaching change mid season? It would probably kill the rest of the season so a change would only be wishful thinking. Something has to change because now we’re staring at 3 game lose streak at the most crucial time of the year because there is no way in hell we’ll win in Utah.
I'm not sure if it's good we never play GSW and PHX
or terrible. If we played them more often maybe Woody would realize that you can’t beat them with 6.5 players. We would certainly have more losses, though.
It's time for Woody to be shown the door
the guy has no cajones. We fold up like a cheap tent at any sign of adversity on the road, even against an NBDL team with post-players who could not get a run at the local Y.
It’s a joke. This team wants to be considered elite? Are you serious? They have the mental fortitude of a Swedish ice dancer. They have no killers. They are weak. It all comes from the top down.
Last night’s game was inexcuseable. I am still sick about it. How do you lose to an NBDL team and go around trying to convince people you are ‘elite’? Sickening.
You're right about how bad that Warriors team was.
I mean, seriously…half their players were out of the game. But how many would they need if they have the one player that no one other than Jeff Teague can guard (Curry), and Teague can’t be allowed to play in that role in the 4th because Bibby and JJ are too busy getting torched by the guy?
Amen...
It’s hard to believe in a coach which has not changed his brand of ball since he came here. I am so tired of the ISO’s!!! And Teague wasting away on the bench, and Bibby playing like garbage? I am still “skemeptical” of this team and until this coach, kicks rocks, catches fire, or is booted out on his ARSE, we will be the same team that does not progress and will be gone in the 2nd round!
And for all you Hawks fans who say “Yeah but at least we made the playoffs?”
Then GO WATCH THE BRAVES!!!!!!
"If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong..."
You pretty much hit on everything
I really can’t add anything without excessive amounts of profanity. Let’s just say this game showed why Mike Woodson has been asked to prove he’s worthy of an extension this season and it also showed why contract year Joe Johnson will be the death of the team in the playoffs. I can’t even really blame him though, his teammates allow it to happen so they deserve it. I wonder if they realize just how close Toronto is to them.
@cocoqt81
BTW...
I think the Hawks hit one into a 10,000 foot crevasse last night. And then they stiffed us.
one other point
i just picked up from the comment of the other thread.
one of the 72 reasons to be excited was “Marvin Williams game winners.” When was the last time Marvin was in at the end of the game?
one thing you left out
Can’t believe you didn’t mention our last possession, which is maybe the worst i’ve ever seen. Why on earth does Josh Smith jack up a 3 with 8 seconds left???
i passed out toward the end of writing this
in a heap of hate and my forehead must have pressed publish.
needless to say, plan A was Crawford and plan B was…wait we are suppose to have a plan B?
Josh Smith should not
have been in position to take that shot for several reasons. The most important being, the game should not have been that close. The other reasons are obvious.
@cocoqt81
Woody has officially lost has mind.
He should have called a time out when the lead was cut in half. I was angry when Josh took that last shot but I have to give him credit for his work on the defensive end. He had 17 rebounds. Why our guards are allergic to snagging rebounds is beyond me. Curry had 9 of his own! 9!!!! but only 3 assists. If he’d had a poor shooting night, we’d be dancing in the streets right now. But seriously, why not double this guy? He comes to the chest of almost all of our starting five. Woody’s planning was nonexistent last night. Nique was sitting right there!!!! Why didn’t he ask him what to do if he didn’t know???? Anything
He had 3 fouls with 7 minutes to go in the second quarter.
And we somehow STOPPED GOING AT HIM. He gets 4 and he sits the rest of the half. I was livid at this.
We needed to make a trade
I know “hind-sight” right? But this obviously shows the front office couldn’t pull anybody important from the offseason to now. I think we all as hawks fans should write the front office everyday and tell them how idiotic they are.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
oh and can we please
consider a different starting lineup? Maybe Marvin off the bench and Joe at the three and Jamal playing two. Let’s try to get Joe helping the front line. Who comes in for Joe…Marvin! Who comes in for Jamal….Mo Evans! This will get the bench guys good minutes and energy off the bench. Let’s try it, I mean what’s the worst that could happen?
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
I still like JC coming off the bench because he has really excelled in that role
Why don’t we start Teague? If JJ is going to dominate the ball anyway, what will it hurt? If your answer is Teague offense is not there, then my answer to that is :neither is Bibby’s. Nobody thought Collison could hold it down for New Orleans, but look at him now. I think he had a triple double the other night. With each passing game, it’s becoming evident that something is amiss with Bibby and it’s only a matter of time before he has a season ending injury. Like it or not, Woody has to develop this rookie. If they’re not going to do that, QUIT EFFING DRAFTING POINT GUARDS!!!!!!!
Or at least play Teague...
he does well in spurts, but that’s all he gets and then he is glued to the bench for the rest of the night. Let the kid play, it’s not like we’re winning right now with what’s out there.
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 22, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
yeah i agree
I posted that we should consider starting teague some time ago and a lot of people told me he’s not ready. I mean could he actually be worst than Bibby?
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
no, no he can't
Bibby has no offensive “potential”, instead he only has glimpses of his younger more productive years. He’s a turnstile on defense and I have to believe that Teague would provide much more on defense than Bibby and be better than the 3-5 pts Bibby provides on offense. I didn’t agree with keeping Bibby after last year and I still don’t.
"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC
Four times?
I hope that’s an exaggeration. I tend to think of Legler’s purpose to be pushing intelligent basketball fans toward the Daily Dime Live but I’m forgiving and tolerant by nature.
Y'all do realize
making adjustments is not one of Coach Woodson’s strengths, right? He’s not going to do anything differently, so let’s all cross our fingers and hope the isolation plays get us into the second round again.
@cocoqt81
Let me refer u to my friend Gir
"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC
teague getting more time definently wouldn't hurt
I lover my hawks but they screw up easy games. everyteam has down times so I hope we get it together tonight. win or lose I better see a class a Damn effort!
by Hawksgirl on Feb 22, 2010 11:04 AM EST via mobile reply actions
so what happened last night?
Woody: the shit didn’t work! What’s next? woody: keep trying the shit until it does. duh! I can imagine him saying this too. bite sweet
by Hawksgirl on Feb 22, 2010 11:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'll co-sign with hawksdawgs
That this is the worst loss of the season if not in the past two years. Not only were all of our players “healthy” we had a 17 point lead going into the fourth quarter. This coming against a team with only 8 healthy players and a losing record, also with a rookie point guard scoring 32 on a playoff calibur team. Saying that again makes me think this is the worst hawks loss to record considering the odds.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Following this team is becoming detrimental to my health
I slept two hours tops last night!!! I look like Elmer Fudd when Bugs Bunny wouldn’t let him sleep.
I don't know if you remember the episode, but he was holding his eyes open with toothpicks. Hilarious!!!!!!
Do we have any tangible proof that Woody actually worked under Larry Brown?
Prove it! I want to see pictures. How is it that LB can get Charlotte to play lock down defense and we can’t. Woody needs to stop preaching defense because besides Smoove and Al, no one else is listening!!!!
Or played for Bob Knight
I am starting to think these are lies spread by the Woody propaganda machine.
"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC
HawksDawgs you are a brave man
i had no stomach to even come to this site till mid-day today. I have not looked at game recaps, I don’t want to watch that game again. Trying to forget last night.
JJ will do what JJ did last night every game that is tight, because Woody doesn’t know offense and lets JJ do that stupid ISO stuff while double teamed. If JJ plays with Rose or another superstar, he will revert back to role of great shooter as opposed to trying to create his own shot when double teamed. The only way he will change his ways with the Hawks, is with Woody gone, and another coach telling him to pass when double teamed. Woody would not be gone this year, because there is still a perception that if Hawks record is better than last year and they do better than getting killed in 2nd round, he has improved us. But at this rate, he is digging his own …
It really hurts. If I were Woody, I would absolutely give Rookie more minutes. There are games he is going to screw up, but he shows how much faster he can make the Hawks. On offense, on defense, on energy. Bibby is even shying away from shooting. Rookie may not shoot like Curry, but he is every bit as fast and more athletic. It is a crime at this point that he is not getting minutes.
I love Jamal, but he should know better than that tech at the end, that is the difference between playing on games that matter and those that don’t. He will learn. As for Smoove’s jumper, he probably feels he can’t screw any worse than those JJ moments. Now note, I love those two guys, but both JJ and Smoove need to go to a higher place. Can JJ do it? Does he care? I am not sure, but the iso at the end, for any game that is tight, gets us the same results. Smoove is our best passer, but clearly he was frustrated. I am rambling, excuse me…
I agree somewhat
But I seriously doubt Josh shot that wanker of a three out of fustration.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Actually....
He shot it out of fear. You could almost see it in his face. Like, “oh no….here we go again!”
I'm seriously trying to organize a hardcore Atlanta Hawks fan club that will go to games/sportsbars to watch and support OUR Atlanta Hawks. E-mail me at beemoe75@yahoo.com
by Hawks Fan From Day One on Feb 22, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
.......
nah…I so feel where you’re coming from.
I'm seriously trying to organize a hardcore Atlanta Hawks fan club that will go to games/sportsbars to watch and support OUR Atlanta Hawks. E-mail me at beemoe75@yahoo.com
by Hawks Fan From Day One on Feb 22, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent!
GREAT post. Couldn’t have said it better myself!
I'm seriously trying to organize a hardcore Atlanta Hawks fan club that will go to games/sportsbars to watch and support OUR Atlanta Hawks. E-mail me at beemoe75@yahoo.com
by Hawks Fan From Day One on Feb 22, 2010 11:58 AM EST reply actions
Don't feel too bad guys
The Warriors just DO this sometimes, doesn’t matter who they’re playing. It’s why I can’t stop loving them even during a season like this. And it’s why I still have faith in Don Nelson.
That being said, your team would be sooooo much better with an actual coach. Last night is on him.
Now hiring?
Byron Scott? Paul Silas? Avery Johnson? I am even willing to maybe give Larry Drew a shot, but sign Woodson next year and this website will implode!!!!
"If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong..."
Dis-belief
i stopped watching game at end of 3rd quarter,..how did the hawks lose?,..did they stop punching the ball inside?,..They were playing against an 8 man team that looked exausted at the end of the 3rd,..This is by far the most embarrassing game of the year.//I guess it has to be,.i have never, ever blogged about the Hawks before,..Goodbye Woodson,..Hawks are a much better team than G. State on paper,..Thats a fact
Worst Loss of the Year
Hey, new to the site, will update my profile later, but had to say something about this. I agree with the post completely. The good thing about this site is that everyone here knows Hawks b-ball. With that being said, I agree that Woody has to go. He has hit his ceiling as a coach. At this rate if we get the 4th seed and face the Bobcats, we may not get out. He has been outcoached on too many occassions and Larry Brown will do the same to him. I think this offseason will be one of the most important in Hawks history, especially depending on what happens with Joe.
by Sterling Platinum on Feb 22, 2010 2:32 PM EST reply actions
oh an offer has been made, accepted, and closed upon! They've loss 15 straight games there.
Although the Hawks tend to like adversity. They like playing with their backs against the wall.
It pains me to type this but......
We are who we thought we were….4th best team in the Eastern Conference…..sigh…….
Tonights game
is a big one for the hawks. . . If they win it can push them into a solid three game home stand. . . . if they lose we keep losing ground on the celtics and magic. I know everyone wants to overreact to last nights game and it really really sucked, but if we win four in a row it kind of makes up for it. No one will remember a game in february if we can turn it around a get to the #2 seed. I know that seems pretty wishful thinking considering last nights game but it is possible.

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