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Phoenix Suns 88, Atlanta Hawks 80 or too many Joe Johnson's

boxscore

recap

It has become clear more and more, the Hawks can only talk about being elite in this league without blushing if they are turning the ball over in the single digits. They just cannot give the ball up and remain an effective offense. Certain facts are just facts. I can't go to the beach without sunscreen. I don't pretend otherwise. The Hawks should take note. And yes, sometimes I wear a t shirt at the beach to avoid sunscreen. So you may be asking what is the Hawks t-shirt? Well, that would be running.

The shell of Mike Bibby cries out to us all

Depressing watching this on DVR, seeing Mike Bibby hit his second shot attempt of the game and saying "well, I can close the book on Mike for the game." There were 44 minutes left to play. Bibby is like Marvin Williams without any belief that he can go for 20 points anymore. Mike Bibby is basically Bruce Bowen on offense but Bibby can't play defense. I have long believed our starting point guard offers a lot intangibles. His skill at alley oops and selling illegal screens alone are worth at least 15 minutes a game. And in Woody's offense, most nights Bibby's reputation as a three point shooter is a good enough role to be effective. Plus, Mike knows the offense and knows his own weaknesses better than anyone on the team. All true, and in that sense, I am a Bibby supporter. It is not as if we have Steve Nash on the bench....but we do have Jeff Teague. And he has to get some burn. He just has too. Shoot, at the very least, Teague can contest the run out layups.

Give me one Josh Smith, not two Joe Johnsons

People often ask why I like Josh Smith so much. Why I think he is so important. In some sense, Josh Smith had a Joe Johnson night against the Suns. Five boards, 1 assist, 8-15 shooting. The four blocks were the only real Josh-esque stat line. And on the other end of things, Joe had a perfectly good Joe night as well. And the Hawks scored 80 stinking points. When Josh Smith has a Josh Smith night, when he flirts with a 5x5, he transforms games. 20 point scorers don't transform games. Every team has a 20 point scorer. No other team has a Josh Smith. The man can single handedly swing the score ten points without scoring.

Star-divide

Loser Dots

  • Zaza's assist to Joe Smith for a (double clutch?!?) dunk made me happy. Like irrationally, borderline pathetic happy.
  • In the second quarter, on a long miss by Channing Frye, Marvin Williams was tracking the rebound, and instead of skying for the board, he alligator armed the effort. It looked like he was scarred to fill up the box score. Someone needs to burn that onto a DVD and put it in a nutshell.
  • More pick and rolls please.
  • When the offense is struggling, force Marvin Williams to take a shot. That is possible is it not?
  • Al Horford did not have a great night, but he did make the only two shots he took in the fourth quarter.
  • So I guess this game against the Jazz is now important.

Go Hawks!

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Well.......

Your right we dont need 2 jjs. Though I felt jj was paaing more than usual which is a good sign but they just couldnt produce the points last night. Teague should have gotten a run or atleast a minute in the game. He could have helped……..On to utah. I like playing them so dont embarass yourselves hawks.

by Hawksgirl on Feb 20, 2010 9:10 AM EST reply actions  

well we do have the Warriors first

you could accuse me of looking ahead, but i don’t actually play so I think the team is safe.

and i was not saying Joe had a bad game. I think he played slightly above average. I think it just shows if Joe is not making piano music in the fourth quarter, the guy that really can change a game is Josh. We knew that. Nothing new, but seeing josh have a very Joe night made it all the more clear.

i guess it is good when Jamal can hits shots too. i guess….

by hawksdawgs on Feb 20, 2010 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I wasnt saying you said jj had a bad game

I was just saying that he is passing more than usual which could mean he is letting the rest of the guys have effects on the game(though woody still rides him like a horse).

by Hawksgirl on Feb 20, 2010 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

yes very true

when josh is being all about josh it isnt productive for the whole team. And I look forward to the warriors now too. I like stephen curry and montae(injury) So we play golden state first?

by Hawksgirl on Feb 20, 2010 9:33 AM EST reply actions  

It's remarkable, but the Suns really played defense last night.

And they match up well individually, because they have a lot of quickness and athleticism. The Hawks could not beat them to certain spots on the floor and it resulted in turnovers and few good shots.

Unfortunately, there was more than just turnovers; the Hawks got pounded on the boards too. Add to that that Bibby used to be a good three-point shooter—he has shot significantly worse each month of the season, from over 46% in November to only 19% in February—and it’s clear there are two factors that have been consistent problems, lack of rebounds and three-pointers.

The turnovers last night were an anomaly, but the lack of threes and rebounds were not.

by rbubp on Feb 20, 2010 9:36 AM EST reply actions  

Furthermore,

Teague is not going to provide an offensive spark in the manner of stretching the defense the way Bibby could when he was making the 3s. That’s why, even though I think Teague will be good, I wish the Hawks had taken Toney Douglas, who not only is an assassin from out there but is good defensively too.

Then there’s how much Blair would have helped them in the second round, given the rebounding issues…but no, we have to get guys who are interchangeable and athletic and especially in the second round we have to take people that will never play for the Hawks.

by rbubp on Feb 20, 2010 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

percentage wise

teague actually was a better 3 point shooter in college.

Toney did take about two more a game though.

by hawksdawgs on Feb 20, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Not sure why the Hawks seem to have a problem with this

but Acie Law was supposed to be a much better shooter too. I submit that poor shooting is why Teague hasn’t played more.

But Hoopinion is right…I also noticed how the Suns’ bench was pounding the Hawks in the late third and most of the fourth—and I wondered if perhaps that is just a better defensive group than what Nash and Stoudemire can provide. But they shut the Hawks down, period, and yeah, it would be nice if Woody would play his damn bench, again.

by rbubp on Feb 20, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Too many turnovers but this game was still winable

In the end, our starting lineup was totally gassed. How Woody couldn’t see this is beyond me. Ever since Bibby hurt his ankle at the beginning of the season, he hasn’t been the same. It’s so odd how rapidly he declined. We really don’t need this right now. All of the more reason to give Teague minutes to at least get the 2nd unit out and running. The kid is a regular Flash Gordon out there. Sitting on the bench is doing nothing but killing his confidence. Clearly JC’s shoulder is still an issue. I think he was throwing shots up because he thought he’d get a whistle. Not! No whistles are called on the road my friend. Even when they got to the charity stripe they clanked off the rim. Al missed 4 free throws!!! That’s unheard of. Woody has got to find a way to play his bench more effectively. He does not have to have all bench players in at one time. He can mix and match. He just needs to figure it out because while we’re losing, Toronto is winning. We’ll find ourselves in the 5th playoff spot before we know it without homecourt advantage. We all know that’s all Woody strives for.

by dstdeelite on Feb 20, 2010 10:35 AM EST reply actions  

Oh I forgot the number one reason they lost is because they lost focus in the 4th quarter

It could have been fatigue, but they were definitely not focused. Nobody was in the right spot. How many passes sailed out of bounds to the guy in the 3rd row last night. That was not Hawks basketball in the 2nd half last night. Sulk now, make adjustments, win tomorrow. It’s just that simple.

by dstdeelite on Feb 20, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

i'm glad you brought up bibby's hurt ankle

his game has certainly declined since then, just when we need a solid performance from him. but i think it’s mean when some people say that when he sits there laughing, it’s because he has duped management into signing him a 3-year contract for the lousy performance he’s giving the team. it’s no joke playing when you are not 100% fit.

about last night’s game, it’s not everyday that the suns’ bench shows up like that. maybe they just wanted to make a statement: they were happy they didn’t lose amare.

by nbabuff on Feb 20, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

Apparently this game was tied 70 to 70 and Phoenix’s lock down defense won the game.

The Hawks are hard-headed. I think everyone had their share of jump shooting the team out of the game. We again get outrebounded mainly because of that. That alone will get you blown out of games, more times than if a team is better than you and you play flawless. Am I wrong for thinking that? Can anyone agree with that assessment?

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 20, 2010 11:36 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed.

And in addition to not making shots, not rebounding, and turning the ball over, they got several easy shots right at the rim in the crucial 13-0 run that decided the game. There may have been some merit to tired legs on that, because Phoenix certainly motion offenses the hell out of any defense in a half-court set. It would seem yet another case of starter burnout when you put all this factors together…Q. a fresh Phoenix bench and tired ATL starters= sloppy passes and poor shooting on offense, no rebounding on either end, and susceptibility to back cuts on defense? A. YES.

by rbubp on Feb 20, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Prediction: 2-2 on this road trip

There is no way we win at Utah on Monday. It is the second game of a back-to-back and the hawks do not play well in back-to-back games. They don’t even play well at home on a back-to-back (Miami Heat Thumping). The Clippers game is a must, because Utah will beat us. We have to learn how to bring it every night, swing the ball around, and bring some fire on the road. Until we do that we will be the number 4 seed. There aren’t many games left and we need to start taking care of business if we want to try to take the 2 seed.

by BravesFanScout on Feb 20, 2010 12:13 PM EST reply actions  

There's 29 games left

I honestly don’t think the celtics have it in them to have a better record according to next month’s schedule. The hawks CAN NOT accept the 4 seed and expect to go to the ECF

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 20, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Yet, the Celtics just had a road back-to-back where they beat the Lakers

and then blew the doors off a rested Portland team the next night. Does not bode well, especially when we know this year’s Hawks just cannot do that.

Boston is still capable of putting runs together and being quite fearsome— certainly more capable of that than the burnt-to-a-crisp Hawks.

by rbubp on Feb 20, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Bench play and StanVanGundy as a Profit

To me last night’s game was only winnable if we played five on five. But Suns have a bench. Whereas our starters had to log major minutes last night. Frye and Dudley and Dragic were major contributors.

In the fourth our starters were going against their bench for majority of time. We are not going to win many games when our starters including Bibby are putting in over 38 minutes a game. And if Jamal is having problems, like he is (health or something) our bench is just not there. Losing Childress and Murray in years past is coming back to hurt us. Right now Mo Evans misses open shots, Zaza is in the wrong place majority of time, and the rest, …. It is incomprehensible for Woody not to let the rookie get into the game for a few minutes each half. Surely he could not have hurt us any worse than Mo Evans last night. Sorry I am down this morning, but hate the fact that Van Gundy predicted how thin we are on the bench and it is coming true and we have done nothing about it. We have been lucky with no injuries so far, but a teams needs to be built assuming one or two injuries a year. Bibby’s decline is really hurting. At least it is sunny in beautiful ATL today

by ATLpaul on Feb 20, 2010 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

Real talk

It was a total team loss, to the point I actually went to sleep on the game, woke up at 4 in the morning just knowing we’d lost that game and verifying it one minute later on NBATV. You could just feel it. Can’t hang this on one Hawk, either. I was telling people not to make much out of Al’s 30+ the other night. In my opinion, Smoove should never outscore JJ….not when Joe is wanting max money. I’ve learned to stop expecting anything out of Marvin. Sad to see the decline in Bibby. Really thought he and Joe would play like they had some family and friends there. Jason Collins is the worst waste of skin EVER. At least Joe Beast had a nice effort. Coach mismanaged the bench, as usual. I agree with ATLpaul because I’m just down about it. There was nothing to really get excited for. We started missing dunks. Granted, the Suns did, too….but I’m focusing on my team. JJ just came out after the break and was flappin his gums once again….this time about hitting first every night. As this team’s leader, I expect more than the lip service. Lang Whitaker says that the team may go after Drew Gooden or Big Z. I can only hope so……

I'm seriously trying to organize a hardcore Atlanta Hawks fan club that will go to games/sportsbars to watch and support OUR Atlanta Hawks. E-mail me at beemoe75@yahoo.com

by Hawks Fan From Day One on Feb 20, 2010 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

Our biggest weakness is our bench

Plain and simple. If Jamal doesn’t produce, we get nothing from the bench.

AND, even when they do have good games, they get less than 10 minutes.

Joe Smith was looking like Joe Beast tonight. So Black Kojak promptly took him out of the game before he could be of too much help.

We need to do something to rejuvenate our bench. Maybe move Marvin to the bench?

by axhfan on Feb 20, 2010 3:11 PM EST reply actions  

Hey

I was thinking the same thing last year that Marvin should come off the bench. Although, that would definitely be a different look offensively and defensively that might backfire.

But, on this subject of too many Joe Johnsons. When Josh Smith doesn’t play his role…we lose. Josh Smith is the only one who believes in his jump shot even though he is about as successful at it as Shaq hitting free throws. I feel great about Joe taking jumpers because he makes most of them. That’s his game. I feel wonderful about Josh dunking or layuping. That’s his game. The less jumpshots he takes the more rebounds he will grab by setting up camp in the paint. Now if we as bloggers know this, then the players sure as hell could write a book on it.

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 20, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Woody Strikes again

So in this morning’s AJC, Woody says he intentionally played six players only in the second half as his strategy.

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/02/20/woody-short-bench-strategy-backfired-on-me-vs-suns/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks
  
What is he freaking thinking about? Well I did mention as part of this thread, that he is handicapped by some of the players Sund has given him. But for him to have said his strategy was to play six players is unconscionable . Now we know he doesn’t believe in offense, and just wants to let players do their thing. One can fire him just for that reason. But to come out and so blatantly say that was his strategy to limit us to six players. I am just amazed, that a head coach after six years of coaching in NBA is saying what he is saying. Even a rookie coach will not make that mistake. We in the game thread that night saw the problem with the starters getting tired in the 4th going against their bench, and here is Woody pontificating after the fact. It is hard to overcome lack of solid bench players, it is doubly hard to overcome a coach that doesn’t even know how to take advantage of what it is he has on the bench. Inexcusable. And I don’t believe him that he will change his strategy going forward becasue he is incapable of doing that. He does not trust any one but the starting six.

by ATLpaul on Feb 21, 2010 9:04 AM EST reply actions  

Mike Woodson = Idiot

Mike Woodson is dumb. He has no idea what he is doing. He has been coaching these guys for 6 years now and he still doesn’t get it. At the beginning of the season he was using the bench really well. As the season has gone on he has used them less and less. The hawks went on their best win streak when he was using the bench well (back when they won 6 in a row and won a few of them by over 20). He is burning the players out and they will have nothing left by the time playoffs come around…. And the offense he runs or lack of offense has killed us more than a few times this season. This ISO bull sh*t is ridiculous. Teams win by moving the basketball unless you have Lebron James or Dwyane Wade. Joe Johnson isn’t even close to those guys. We have to move the ball. We have enough guys that can score. I’m glad he hasn’t been given a new contract. This team is underachieving and if we don’t compete in the second round again this year then it might be time for a change.

by BravesFanScout on Feb 21, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

It's hard to conceive that Woody

thought this would work against Phoenix. Naw…he playing with us. He has to be kidding. (Sigh) Will the Woodson apologists defend this?

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 21, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok this had to have been a gut check

Or some kinda Zen thing. If this is his MO we are in TROUBLE.

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Feb 21, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

When Al is off, Bibby is in a slump, Jamal hurt, and Marvin is not agressive – what do you expect. Woody did not use his bench in the second when they held their own in the first. We were tied after the 3rd qt and then went to pieces. Plenty of blame to go around.

by RivBoatGambler on Feb 21, 2010 4:39 PM EST reply actions  

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