TIME TO TRADE JOSH SMITH????
by dkrib on Nov 23, 2010 6:01 AM EST
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I am not saying this out of fraustration. I am saying this out of reason.WHO OR WHAT IS JOSH SMITH?? One of the major reasons why the Hawks are struggling is the unbelieveable indisciplined play of Josh Smith.
Every team has defined roles. The problem with Josh is that he gets out of his team's defined role.. He wants to be the point guard, center, 2 guard ,small forward , six man etc. The problem with that is that he messes up the team psychology. When Marvin , Joe or Bibby takes a 3, that is within their role. It doesnt really matter if they miss it because everyone on the team knows that they are suppose to take the 3 and are more likely to live with the result.
Imagine being a team mate of Josh. When he jacks up a 3 or decides to run the point instead of passing the ball to the point guard, what will be on your mind? I bet they are saying DAMN Josh! , I bet your energy level will fall and your fraustration will rise. It has nothing to do with making the 3 or pass. It has to do with discipline and playing your role.
He( Josh) is very immature and tends to be easily frustrated when the Hawks are losing thereby hurting the team by his plays and antics e.g..Did you see how many times he let Big Baby and Kevin get the shots they wanted because of his frustration?
Too many times, you can feel the other Hawks players drop their shoulder when Josh makes a bone head play. That affects the teams psychology. Trading Josh will let Al play the 4, move Collins to the 5.We have enough shooters in the starting line up and Collins doesn't hurt you defensively,he is very disciplined and is a TRUE CENTER. If down the road this season, Teague is able to get the starting job, WE WILL HAVE A TRUE STARTING 5.I am sorry, but 2 undersized starters is a huge hole for this team to overcome.
Oh and he has great trade value right now!. We can get a solid guard, small forward or even center( or a combination) in return. Like the saying goes, the Hawks goes as Josh smith goes. If he plays well, the Hawks play well. If he doesn't, they lose. Unfortunately, the Hawks cannot go far with that kind of mentality. Especially when Josh is not Kobe Bryant.
You want more reasons?
1. He is not a small forward as noted by the career points of the opposing teams small forwards when he played the role early in the season.
2., He is not the teams best power forward. That prize goes to AL.
3. He is in his 7th or 8th year. He SHOULD GET IT BY NOW.
4. Yeah we will lose some of his rebounding and block shots...I can live with that. Marvin, Collins and Al can make up most of it.- Collins is not a good rebounder, but he is very good at boxing out, Al can be a good shot blocker as noted by his stats last year.
5.His best role might be energy off the bench.Unfortunately, you risk him pouting and losing it.!!!
6. A lot of teams will love to have him!!.HAWKS BEST TRADE ASSET
7. Contrary to popular opinion, the Hawks will be better defensively without Josh in the starting line up. Why? Al playing the 4, no undersized center, limited bone head and risky plays and most importantly- EVERYONE PLAYING WITHIN THE GAME PLAN.
8., Woody was getting some success in limiting Josh's bone head plays.Larry unfortunately, has done a very bad job and lacks the reputation to make Josh rein in his antics.
9.Forget stats , you can only win consistently when everyone plays within the roles defined by the coach and game plan. That is against Josh's basketball philosophy of doing it all.
10. The Hawks can win with Marvin, Al,Bibby or even Joe playing badly sometimes. WE CANNOT WIN WITH JOSH PLAYING BADLY BECAUSE HE HURTS THE TEAM IN SO MANY WAYS.
You think otherwise ?let me know.
A FanPost expresses the opinion of the community member who wrote it and not that of the blog management.
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Yes, he does
I posted his stats in my Zaza post. He’s horrible both offensively and defensively.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
i offer an alternative
Package Zaza and Jamal, add Marvin for spice and ship them to Detroit. Get T-prince, B-Wallace, and Stuckey. Immediately we solve toughness issues, get a wing that plays with heart and defense, and get a good point guard. Add Teague to the package if Detroit insists. I pay the shipping costs :)
No way
Detriot does this deal. Nothing to gain for them.
i have read that T-prince is unhappy
I am sure he doesnt want to go through a rebuilding phase. Gettnig Stuckey is probably wishful thinking, but i also read he and their coach are having issues. B-Wallace may want to play for a playoff team again. Just think, Ben Wallace and Smoove and Lion and T-Prince and JJ and even Teague/Bibster. What a line-up….
Great Post
You make a solid argument very good points in regards to Josh. I agree with most of what you are saying. I really like Josh and his physical ability is very rare, but the more I watch the Hawks this season, the more I realize that Josh can sometimes be very problematic for the team. Josh is good at a large variety of things, and while that may be a strength, it’s also a weakness because, like you said, he has no defined role, and he doesn’t do anything well enough that he can fit into a specific role.
Looking at the issues that the team has currently, a few things stick out to me in particular. On the offensive end, the Hawks are still suffering from lack of diversity, lack of shot distribution, and a semi-predictable offense that is heavily-predicated upon guard play and jump shooting. As many people have mentioned, continuously, the Hawks don’t run many inside plays and hardly ever run post-ups. As a result, they underutilize Horford greatly, who is the only player on the team who has a truly effective post-up, back-to-the-basket game. Josh doesn’t really help to solve these problems. He’s not a great jump shooter, and he doesn’t have a legit post game by any means, so we can’t play him as a traditional four, nor can we trust him as a stretch four. Lately, Josh is actually hurting us even more on offense, because he seems to be taking a lot more shots than he should be taking. With Joe and Jamal dominating the ball and the field goal attempts so often, I get the feeling that Josh feels like he needs to “get his”, and this causes him to put up a lot of ill-advised shots. In tonight’s game, had 21 field goal attempts (made less than half of them) and took more shots than anyone for the Hawks. This not only hurts the team due to Josh’s shot selection, but it also takes shots away from Horford, who should be one of the primary offensive options.
Now, on the defensive end, some of the Hawks biggest problems are perimeter penetration, defense against the 3 point shot, and rebounding. Josh helps here, to a certain extent, since he can help recover on those penetrations and come up with help-side blocks, but at the same time, a lot of what Josh does on the defensive end hurts us. First, in terms of rebounding, I often notice that Josh fails to box out and put a body on his man. That’s one of the main reasons why Hawks give up so many offensive boards. Part of it is due to our guards not chasing down long rebounds also, but when one of your bigs doesn’t box out his man on the defensive end, it throws everything off, because even if everyone else boxes out, the free man is free to roam and often can snatch up the offensive board while the other players are occupied with their men.
Now, in terms of individual defense, sometimes I feel like Josh is a bit overrated. A lot of people who do not have a deep understanding of basketball look at the stats and assume that when a guy has a high number of blocks and steals, it automatically makes him a top-notch defender, but that’s not always the case. The vast majority of Josh’s blocks are weakside blocks, where he comes over to help. Keep in mind that blocks like this come off of a defensive gamble, where the defender leaves his man. In a lot of cases, that free man ends up scoring. Also, I’ve noticed that Josh gambles when defending the post and playing the passing lane when he goes for steals, and a lot of times, these gambles result in easy buckets for opponents. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that what Josh does on the defensive end isn’t great, but a lot of his tendencies on defense actually hurt the team, and they are not apparent when you look at the stat sheet, so people might just overlook the errors. Obviously, Josh is not a great perimeter defender, so we can’t play him out there, but even in the post, Josh is not an elite defender, partly due to his size, and partly due to his defensive gambles. Often, Josh will try to go for the steal when defending the post and give up an easy basket to his man. So, overall, as much as Josh helps the team on defense, he may be hurting us more than most think on that end of the floor as well.
So, when you look at Josh’s impact on both ends of the floor, and factor in his field goal attempts and overall impact on the game, it may be true that trading him or benching him really would be the most effective thing to do to help the team. Think about what it would mean. As good as Horford is at center, a lot of people believe, and the stats also imply this, that he would be even better at PF. Al has all the tools and skills to not only be a good PF, but to be a great one. Moving Josh would allow us to play Horford at his natural position, and a position where he would fill the role perfectly. Additionally, this would give Al Horford the offensive opportunity that he deserves, as he’d likely get a larger number of shots and we could take full advantage of his all-around game, instead of just small samples of it every once in a while. Now, obviously, filling the hole at center could be problematic, but I think that if we could just acquire a sound, defensive center, who moves well and can run the floor, the loss wouldn’t be that bad. We don’t necessarily need a scoring threat from the center position if Horford plays the 4, because Horford would handle most of the interior scoring himself, but if we could acquire an athletic, active center to complement Horford, we would still have another player to run lobs with and to attack the offensive glass.
Hence, as much as I like Josh, it might be best if the team moved on with him either on the bench, or another another team. The way the team is playing right now, something definitely needs to change, and Josh may not only be the center of a lot of the problems, but he also is the Hawks greatest bargaining chip in terms of solving those problems through personnel change.
Josh Smith is overrated defensively?!?!?!?!
Remember, Josh Smith was voted number 2 defensive player of the year in the entire NBA last year by field of NBA experts and analysts. Do we seriously think we can replace the number 2 defensive player in NBA with a young athletic center? I didn’t realize we could get Howard
They don't break down his actual play, they look at blocks and steals.
Right now, 60% of Josh Smith blocked shots end up in the hands of the other team and save them a possession. Josh is horrible at defending shooters and he fails to pay attention to his man because a lot of times he is looking for the highlight block rather than play smart.
I am all for the excitement he brings, but he has zero basketball IQ. The other night against Boston, he very visibly quit. Coming out of halftime, you could see him doing that lip thing which means he didn’t like what coach said and he was checking out of the game mentally. I lost what little love I had for him when he threw that asinine alley-oop pass to Horford out of seemingly nowhere. They were 2 on 4 and he still tried to get on the highlight reel.
He is not going to get better than he is now. His attitude is horrendous. A lot of times his brain has seemingly been replaced with Yinka Dare’s. My patience for Smith has run out. There’s a sucker team out there that would love to trade for him and give us way too much. I say pull the trigger sooner rather than later.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
As from NBA.com link below
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/04/20/howard.defensive.poy/index.html
I tend to go with the impartial assessment of the experts. Otherwise, one can start getting subjective. For example, if one is to watch games and make assessments per personal viewing, I can also retort that for every block Smoove has made, he alters even more shots, so his value is in fact even more. But as I said, then we are getting subjective.
Bill Russell used to say the same thing “block it in bounds” to Kareem. What he ignored, and you are repeating, is the speed of more recent NBA, physicality of players, has made art of block very difficult. At this point, even for Howard, it is difficult to block and direct where the ball goes. So in my opinion, you are reaching with that point.
As for defending shooters I give you that Smoove does not have good lateral movements. But I ask you, does a Power Forward need good lateral movements? or does he need to be a force in the paint. For a small forward, protecting the perimeter is more important.
I disagree with the zero basketball IQ comment. I believe he is a very smart young man. Stubborn and not schooled properly I agree. Smoove has the best court vision of any Hawk at this point ,and with that must come basketball IQ.
His problems in my mind, are coaching. Drew has to quit babying him. When he doesn’t pass the ball to point guards, he needs to be spoken to and sat down. But we have Drew for a coach, enough said. Lastly from two year ago to now, how can one deny Smoove’s improvement.
Last, if we are to trade Smoove, I will double guarantee, he will be taken by many teams in the league, he will change balance of power for a team like NY or Deer or … I would make sure if that comes, Hawks don’t settle for less than a premium player…
Just trade him to the West or a bad team!
That will solve the balance of power problem.
Drew has to quit babying him??
What of Woodson’s approach..Did it work?…Remember Drew was with Woody for 6 years and saw Josh. Anything he is doing now is based on his knowledge of Josh for over 6 yrs. At some point, you have to concede that the Issue is from Josh and no one else.
what the heck is this crap?
just because a starter has a bad day doesn’t mean it’s time to get ride of him, these things happen, besides he’s the closest thing we have to LeBron we can’t afford to lose him unless we get LeBron
Mathew 19:26 "With God, all things are possible"
That may be the single biggest exaggeration of Smith's value I have ever seen.
Those two players aren’t on the same planet ability wise.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
But you're not...
he’s nothing like Lebron, and could be had for a lot more than just him.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 27, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
wow
do you people realize how boring the hawks would be to watch without josh smith???
he is the only player who plays with any real aggression. so no. the problem is that overpaid turkey joe johnson throwing up brick after brick. that is our issue right there people. we got stuck with him and can’t get out ouf it. j-smoove is the leader of this team. not boring azz joe johnson.
And this is the problem with fans.
Playing smart is “boring”.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
Exactly
I’d rather see a team succeed and go deep into the playoffs, or win the championship, with sound, fundamental basketball, rather than see the same team make the highlight reel each night and ultimately end up in the lottery once the season is over.
Take the Spurs, for instance. Tim Duncan may not talk a lot of trash, and the Spurs may not be extremely exciting to watch with lob dunks and highlight blocks, but what do they have to show for their sound basketball principles? Four championship in the basically the last decade and undoubted respect by all teams in the league.
Ignoring the "boring" comment
Wouldn’t you say JJ’s struggles with the new system are a bigger problem than Smooth’s attitude?
I would say
JJ struggles to put the ball in the basket have nothing to do with a new system
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
ha
getting rid of josh smith is going to get us deep into the playoffs???
yeah cause joe johnson did so amazing in the playoffs last year didn’t he? lol
besides, who is it besides last night that has been having 20+ point games. yeah that would be josh smith. while mr 120 million dollar man continues his big 6 to 10 point games. people please.
More attempts than points is not a good recipe for success
Just for the record, Josh Smith scored 20 points on 21 shots last night (9-21 on FGs). He led the team in field goal attempts. When any player has more shots than he does points, it’s not a good thing, regardless of who that player is. I’m not condoning Joe or Jamal’s sub-par play, either, but Josh definitely wasn’t efficient last night. So, I don’t think we should be patting him on the back for scoring 20+ when he scores those points on volume shooting, especially when the shots he’s taking are ill-advised and taking away from other players who may have a better offensive opportunity on the given possession. We already have Joe and Jamal compounding this problem by doing the same things very often.
trade to Denver in a package around Nene?
Nene is very underated player in this league and would work well with AL. would be probably the highest FG% frontcourt. Nene can be a great scorer just doesn’t get the oppurtunity in DEN. You make Josh sound pretty bad though. AL Horford is the man and should be 2nd DPOY moving Josh would help him
I have no issue with trading Smooth
Or any player. It all depends on who you can get back. You’re right in your assessment that Josh is worth a starting center, ect al. But who is out on the trading block that is nearly as good a player as Smooth?
Not to mention, I have a major problem with two points in your argument
1. Collins is a starting caliber center
- LIMITED play in less than a quarter of the season is not enough of a sample to say there has been a change in Collins to the point where we would rather have him in the starting 5 as opposed to Josh. You say Collins doesn’t hurt us defensively? Besides the fact that there’s a difference between the word “doesn’t” and “hasn’t”, what about the other aspects of Collins’ game has you thinking he’s such an upgrade? He doesn’t rebound, score, run the floor, or really do anything special other than remain 7ft tall.
2. Horford is an undersized center
- I’m not gonna get into how centers today are not like centers of the 90s. I’m not gonna compare Al’s size with the league average or that of his contemporaries. I’m just gonna ask: Who do you think we can get at center that will play the position better than Al? WHO IN THE LEAGUE plays the position better? Maybe 5 players? If we have one of the premiere developing centers in the game, along with one of the most dynamic players at the 4, creating such an athletic and versitile frontcourt that can cause matchup problems with any team in the NBA, why would you want to break that up?
Good analysis but
1. Collins was a starting center( in his second year) for a NJ team that went to the finals. So it is not a a stretch to make him the starting center. Considering that he is just 30 years which is still very productive for centers.We badly need a big body on the defensive end which is where we have problems.He does what we need very well- Set screens, Box out, put a big body on the other teams center to not make them kill us. We dont need a scoring center. We have very good shooters at the other 4 positions.
2. Look at all the centers in the league that have an offensive game.e.g. Yao,Shaq,Bynum and the guy in NJ. They always have a significant advantage over AL. Did you notice that any time we play NJ nets , their center always has a very good game? Come playoff time when teams have time to prepare, they will take full advantage of our weaknesses. Infact, Jeff Van Gundy said our major problem is that we are undersized/challenged at 3 positions.( Center PF and Point Guard). Moving Al will solve 2 of the 3 problems.
Wanna see how good Al will be at the PF? Go watch Al play defence on Amare in the NY game and compare it to when Josh was guarding Amare.
Please dont be fooled by Joshes recent play. LETS SEE WHAT HE DOES WHEN THE CHIPS ARE DOWN!! AGAINST GOOD TEAMS AND THE HAWKS LOSING …THATS WHEN JOSH ALWAYS IMPLODES.
I still think you're missing the point
Just because Collins started on a good team doesn’t make him a good player. And you’re talking about how he needs to only do the bare minimum. You don’t think Al can do that? I don’t think Al’s defense on starting power forwards will outweigh losing double-digit scoring from the 5.
Also, looking at the other starting centers which have a size advantage (Yao, Shaq, Bynum, and New Jersey’s Lopez):
Yao – Injuries. Will re-assess after he’s fully healthy.But looks like he may be done.
Shaq – It’s probably his last year. Definitely his last year starting.
Bynum – If you look at the stats, Al has been just as good if not better than Bynum throughout his career. Especially when you account for how Andrew is constantly injured. Al is more consistent than Bynum and way more versatile. Remember, Bynum was the guy who couldn’t win the starting job from Kwame Brown until Brown was injured. And even after that he struggled for playing time. If Andrew Bynum played anywhere other than LA, he’d be called an overrated scrub.
Lopez – Brooke is shooting under 45% and only averaging 6.2 rebound per game. So his offensive game really isn’t on the same level as Al’s.
The only real example in the NBA where Al is truly undersized to the point where he’s being dominated is Dwight. That, though, is a moot point because Howard dominates basically every center regardless of size. Any other “true centers” which dominate the Hawks like Duncan, Gasol, Nowitski, all consider themselves power forwards. Al is a true center. If all you’re using to determine what makes a center is if he’s 7ft tall, than I really can’t believe you’re taking everything into consideration. I don’t care what Van Gundy says.
As far as Smooth is concerned “AGAINST GOOD TEAMS AND THE HAWKS LOSING”
This seasons loses against good teams:
Phoenix – Good game
Orlando – Good game
Utah – Good game
Dallas – Good game
Boston – Horrible game
And I don’t know how much blame you can put on Smooth for the Boston debacle
that’s my thought
I hear all caps helps you win.
Adding an exaggerated amount of punctuation helps too.
Eye-rolling aside, this is absurd, top to bottom.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
by Jesse28 on Nov 29, 2010 1:52 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Win
Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World
by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Dec 5, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Trading Josh Smith doesn't make this team a championship team
So I fail to see what you are attempting to get me to argue. If you honestly believe that trading arguably one of the best talents in the league is the answer, then there’s nothing I could possibly come up with that would jive with your logic.
There are very few players that can do what Smith can and those can do, or come close to it, are not going to be available because they are also paramount to their teams chances at sucess. Losing Smith would hurt much more than losing JJ, as is being proven on the court right now during JJ’s absence.
I’m not going to take the time and argue line-by-line all of the above opinions because my above statement easily argues them all in one word, absurd. When the Hawks were struggling and had that losing streak, none of it was directly caused by Smith. Not once did Smith blow-up or completely quit on the game. Yes, there were some lapses in effort, but as was noted at the time, it was a complete team effort in that, or lack thereof. Many of the losses could be attributed to reverting back to ISO play, or Horford not being in because of phantom foul trouble, or just all around sloppy play by all involved. In fact, the biggest contributor to many of those losses in my mind was the complete disappearance of our bench throughout that stretch.
No, I do not like seeing Smith take ill-advised long jumpers and I definitely do not want to see the pouting of years past, but from what I can see thus far he really hasn’t been that pouty this year and he’s draining those jumpers with much more consistency than he ever has so maybe we are simply witnessing yet another progression in his game. If that’s the case, then I’m more than willing to forgive him for taking a couple of bad jumpers every once in a while, especially considering he is draining three’s at about a 46% clip. As for the pouting, well, that is probably something that we are all going to have to learn to accept as part of who Smith is and that if we want all of the good that he brings that we are going to get a temper tantrum every so often along with it.
If you want my opinion on how to make this a better team with a better chance at winning a championship, then I say stop overpaying psuedo-stars and use that money to upgrade the bench. Look at LA, Orlando, Boston, and the Spurs. yes, they have legit superstars, but more importantly they have quality bench and role players that can come in and hold a lead while letting their superstars stay fresh throughout the entire season. If we could actually field a true two-deep lineup then I think our chances of making it to the finals would increase greatly.
Trading Smith, who has a more than reasonable contract, wouldn’t change that and imo is not an option.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
Ok but
Overpaying Joe is not the problem. The Hawks were willing to pay Shaq but he did not want to come here. Experience has shown that losing 1 good player for 2 average players is not the same. Our major problem is not the bench. Our major problem is the lack of size at the 1,4 and 5. Trading Josh for a defensive center would solve 2 of the 3 problems.
Wow… Did it take a genius to note that inserting Jason Collins into the starting line up cures a significant part of our problem with Orlando. Imagine if we had an upgrade of Jason Collins at the 5 ???
Just because we are winning without Joe doesnt mean we dont need him. Did the big 3 not win games without one of them? Did the Lakers not win games without Bynum?…
I disagree with this
I don’t see us having a size issue at any of those positions outside of a few very isolated match-ups, which can easily be addressed through efficient roster management. Playing Collins at the five didn’t solve anything with Howard as he still scored a ton on us. Not double teaming him is a coaching decision that was made by Drew, but not by Woodson, and Woodson just threw bad bodies at Howard hopeing to get him into foul trouble. Plus, it isn’t explicitly Howard that beat us all those times, it was everyone else destroying our perimter defenders and forcing Horford to guard not only Howard but also anyone who made it into the lane. Frankly, the “we have to defend Howard” meme is a piss poor and overplayed argument for getting someone else to play center other than Horford.
You mention other teams winning with their core players and I strongly consider Smith to be one of our core players. I agree with you that we can not win without our core players and to me that means we can’t lose Smith. I didn’t believe JJ to be an absolute must before the season started and the more we play without him the more I stand by that. I believed that it was possible for Horford and Smith to grow as players and that the Hawks could have found upgrades for the bench and a suitable replacement for JJ that, while not replicating his production from last year (and keep in mind that not even JJ has been able to replicate his production from last year, injury noted), could provide enough to keep us in the hunt and maybe make this a much better team in the process.
So that’s where we differ. I think Smith is not replaceable and is a part of the core group that we need to continue to be successful, but not JJ. You think the opposite. Whatever squirts your skirt.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
by Jesse28 on Dec 8, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope the last few games have
made you realise how much Josh’s indiscipline is costing the team.
That's such a BS move
You’re just gonna wait until a bad run of games and use that as evidence? A few games neither confirms or destroys your argument. He could have the worst game of his career and it still wouldn’t make you right. If you’re gonna make your point then make it. Don’t just point at a recent bad game and say he’s costing us. Because as a whole, he still helps the team win more games than he makes lose.
I THINK ITS TIMME TOO....
TRADE JOE JOHNSON. with him out its clear he doesn’t fit with the team and we could get a point guard and a big man and still resign crawford.
Thanks Maxxj3
Hardbodi82? based on your logic, the Lakers should trade Bynum and the Celtics should trade Perkins. After all, they are winning without them.
That's the same logic that I could hand to you about trading Smith.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
have you ever known Joe to get pulled in the third quarter
for having poor shot selection? And then his team winning in spite of his “antics?”
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
No, then yes
No, of course no one has ever pulled JJ for poor shot selection even when there have been times that they should have. Woodson would never do it because JJ was his bread-n-butter. Drew simply hasn’t had much time to do it, though I doubt he would because of the organizations perception that JJ is franchise player of this team and I doubt they would take a liking to Drew benching their $124 million star.
However, we seen plenty of games won despite JJ’s insistence on the ISO and taking bad shots. The difference is that in the past JJ has made many more of those bad shots not unlike how Smith is trending this year. If Smith had been making those bad shots at the clip he is this year, it never would have been an issue and we wouldn’t be discussing this.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
I guess its opinion-based on whether you believe Josh misses is better than Joe's misses
but it seems to me a lot people favor the flashy stats guy over the high basketball IQ guy. I don’t know why there’s still an air of favoring certain players instead of finding ways to be positive about the team, but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
sooo
your confused why ppl like the flashy stats over the high basketball I.Q.? flashy stats is filling up the boxscore and getting your teammates involved. how high must ones I.Q. be to brickshots and refuse to be a benefit to the new offensive style.
No doubt
It truly is an opinion. But what would we do if we didn’t have opinions?
Trust me, I’m definitely not making an argument over which player is the smarter player here. I’m only stating that my opinion is that Smith is much more valuable to the team than the OP suggests and that JJ is less important than the OP suggests. I’ve tried to back that entirely subjective opinion with objective data based on the way the two are playing right now without copy/pasting numbers all over the place.
Also, I wouldn’t say that it’s an opinion on one players misses being better than anothers because a bad shot is a bad shot regardless of who takes it, but it’s just a matter of how many of those bad shots end up going in and which player tends to take and miss more of them. In the past, the answer would have been easy, Smith. But this year, it’s not. Smith has greatly improved his percentage in making shots that he normally wouldn’t make in years past. JJ has always been a player who can take bad shot after bad shot and make a high percentage of those consistently. In both cases, they are still bad shots that neither should be taking.
At this point though, I feel like I am just re-stating things. So, yeah. Good discussion though.
"Everybody talks about SEC speed. The 27 fastest guys at the (NFL) combine, how many of them were from the SEC? Three. But if you say it enough, everybody will believe it."
-CPJ
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
think were on the same side
im all for keeping josh smith on this team no matter what. i think with his 3-point shot slowly becoming consistent that hes more of a star now. id be willing to trade jj over josh and take a chance on a wesly matthews than taking a chance on a jsmooth replacement.
joe johnson doesnt fit this teams' offense
anymore like he used to. al and jsmoove are the future and jamal crawford is what this team needs at the sg spot. hes more clutch than joe. trading joe could get us a big and a pg plus free up money.
if hes soo instrumental then why are we playing without him? i mean hell we even beat the magic without this guy.
jj could become carmelo and nene in a trade.
just a thought
jj/marvin/bibby for carmelo/nene/and jr smith and it works after dec 15 too
http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/4/
crawford
melo
smooth
horford
nene
thats a championship team there and melo would get max money and he would actually deserve it plus he would fill the seats!!!
again i say
Melo and Josh on the same team???? Nope I don’t see any character issues there (end sarcasm)
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
and yeah right
like Denver would give up their three best scorers.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
honestly
id trade jj for wesly matthews and marcus camby from portland.
http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/4/
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