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Orlando Magic 104, Atlanta Hawks 86 or we are Orlando's Boston

Foul the other arm.

More photos » Phelan M. Ebenhack - AP

Foul the other arm.

What can you say? Maybe start by saying the Magic are great, and they are championship great when they play against the Hawks. It is tough when the team actually uses there all-pro center and shoots over 50% from the field. Actually, it is near impossible.

You have to give Stan Van Gundy credit. The Magic have plenty of good match ups and take advantage almost every time down the court. That is impressive. That is unselfish. That will beat most teams. The problem for the Hawks is they cannot adjust. They have no game plan against the Magic. The team is in response mode, and response mode relies on luck.

At the end of the first quarter, Hawks assistant Jim Todd was interviewed and said, "Well, we are getting fouled, driving the ball and trying to get to the line, and we are not getting calls." That is fine, maybe true, but Orlando is getting open shots or huge advantages that require fouling. Most of the time, the Hawks were beat so bad they did not leave the call up to the refs. Screw driving to get fouled. Atlanta has advantages. Take advantage. Spread the floor and pick and roll with Horford. Create ball movement. All these Isolation drives or shots are horrible because Howard is either going to alter the shot or get the rebound.

Defense did not enliven the optimism. In the first quarter, Mo Evans was called for three seconds....on a double team....in which he never actually double teamed. If the Hawks are waiting to see they need to double team Howard, they are waiting too long. Basically, the defensive strategy was "maybe." Maybe this or maybe that. I don't know what is the best way, but I know it is going full speed. Right now, slow double teams leads to slow close outs which lead to slow double digit deaths.

In the end, the Hawks are not going to win when opponent's tough shots are going in, refs are calling it one way, and Dwight Howard is playing like every Magic fan wants him too, but that does not mean the Hawks can't have a plan. They don't deserve to get lucky on tough shots or get the whistle or have Van Gundy keep Dwight to eight shots. The Hawks play "I hope we out shoot you" mentality against Orlando.  That is a lack of confidence in winning with skill and strategy and that will keep losing.

Star-divide

Loser Dots

  • I am currently watching the game over as to what the Hawks did wrong against Howard, and in the first quarter, Howard committed five foul obvious fouls not counting the one he was called for. Granted I am focused on him, but this is the problem with reffing Howard. He is ridiculously physical. Nearly every single foul by the Hawks on Howard was legit, but half the time Dwight was fouling too. It is tough. How do you call or not call a guy whose job and advantage is to bang? I understand Dwight getting the offensive calls, but on the defensive end, he can't be able to throw people out of the way or hammer guys. That is not a skilled advantage. That is an impossible advantage.
  • The problem with Mario West is that, since he can't play offense, he simply kills ball movement and encourages one on one basketball.
  • I cannot understand the cost benefit analysis of "giving a foul" at the end of a half.
  • Way too many early shot clock jumpers.
  • Jason Collins is Mairo West without the effort.
  • Those six offensive rebounds by the Magic were incredibly painful. Felt like 15.
  • Screw Ryan Anderson. That guy hates the Hawks.
  • What was Mike Bibby thinking on that break away by Dwight Howard? That was by definition probably a flagrant foul. Luckily, Bibby does not have the strength to commit a flagrant.

Go Hawks!

0 recs  |  Comment 45 comments |

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like i said on the game thread..

Does anyone think that orlando plays more fundamentally sound than the hawks? Their post up moves, their recognition, their positioning is more thought out than the hawks than actual talent. Because at home we seem to have more awareness on the court. The hawks are good but our loss of composure leads to a lot mental break downs on offense and defense. That being said, championship leadership plays a role of what a team needs to do in a given situation and that is what the hawks lack.

But against this team we needed more spacing to get all those Orlando defenders out of the lane (because they weren’t going to call three seconds on them). Just like when Orlando played the sixers in the playoffs and the sixers coach told the media, “It’s hard to win when Howard was living in the lane.” (not an exact quote) A cure for a complex disease is not an easy one (like i would know) so our cure for Orlando isn’t something you can quick fix. A trade for a servicable big man could be reasonable and/or a change in offensive strategy could also be it too. As we all know Joe, Jamal, and Josh will score points for us on one-on-one plays, but in games like this, the spacing has to be there to justify these iso’s so the burden won’t be on the shooter alone.

This Jeff Teague embargo has to stop. I know Woodson doesn’t want to treat him like Gohan and “throw him to the wolves” (exact quote) but he has to have a role on this team to be useful. I don’t think anyone will teach him to not show the ball to early when you drive (because nobody hardly drives) but its a simple concept. His speed is such a waste if he can’t use it in cutting, pushing the tempo, and guarding the passing lanes. And while I say this in thinking he isn’t taught this, why can’t he just go in there early and do that?

I don’t know what goes on in the locker room or at practice but one thing is for certain….we need a change in order to beat this team next time.

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Jan 30, 2010 11:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Another thing about Mario

He is a conscious defender and plays with a lot of energy. But he never gets the ball to even be considered an option on offense. Everyone on the opposition knows that unless he actually does something with the ball other than pass it. This year I never seen him drive to the basket, which he’s good at, or shoot it for that matter. Not that I want to see iso-Mario but you have to evolve him in the movement (or lack thereof) at some point in the game. If he can’t hit a layup or jumpshot why have him on the team?

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Jan 30, 2010 11:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

And it's not like he's totally useless

heck, he went 2-2 at the line tonight!

by Bronn on Jan 30, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In all due fairness

Mario was the only Hawks with a positive +/-

by axhfan on Jan 31, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Howard is only pushing people out of the way because he can.

The Hawks would be advised to put Jason Collins in against him or find a similar defender if they expect to stop that. It’s never going to come from the refs. The problem is the Hawks front line is athletic, not huge; it;s what the team is built on. Well, they can move, but when they go up against titans like Duncan and Howard they are just going to get tossed around like rag dolls.

No team can be all things against all opponents, but the Hawks have chosen a rather extreme path that works well enough against approximately all but two teams (Lakers and Magic). What can they do about this? Hell if I know.

by rbubp on Jan 30, 2010 11:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

It scares me how little impact Al has on a game when he plays a legit center. It scares me even more that these centers seem to play their absolute best games against Al.

I understand that Horf isn’t gonna be a guy that dominates the game, but there are much smaller centers that play much bigger than Al does.

by axhfan on Jan 31, 2010 1:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

An incomplete team

Hawks are not a complete team, not to say we are not a good team (double negative!!)
I thought last night we gave it a good try. I give us an A- or B+ from an effort aspect, until we got tired in second half, may be chasing those shooters all around, may be the second night of a back to back, may be may be. Against Orlando our natural speed advantage is neutralized because they are also relatively fast, just not as fast.

As others have said it is clear, we are needing 2 areas of improvements. One a big man (doesn’t have to be a big scorer) that can defend and rebound against a center, AL the Lion does not qualify, but a Ben Wallace type would. And we need a penetrating point guard(Rookie needs minutes but is not the answer yet). We are sorely missing that at this point. Bibby was doing ok until he stayed too long in the game in second half, but the decline is evident. Both of those positions could be had for not extreme investments, because we are not necessarily looking for scorers. To me this is a general manager and ownership job, it is not coaching. We can keep arguing about our strategies and lack of drawing plays, but if personnel is not there, we are not going to compete. In fact we were defending well last night in the first half(good coaching decisions), until legs gave out from chasing back and forth.

Until then, we win some, and we lose against teams that have bigger centers, or are more complete, as in being able to pass the ball around, penetrate, and infiltrate. I can not see us getting much past where we were last year in playoffs, even with addition of JC.

by ATLpaul on Jan 31, 2010 7:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

You're right, but who are we going to get?

If the kind of player who could hold off Howard and Duncan were easy t find everyone would have one. I can’t even think of a player right now that would fit the mold.

Regarding axhfan’s comments, Al’s problem is not that different than ZaZa’s—Duncan and Howard aren’t that much taller but those guys are just so wide through the shoulders; their frames are just so wide that they take up tons of space and have the upper-body strength to knock people of balance without much effort themselves. Wallace was a good defender in part because had had similar upper-body strength.

Al is not a banger in the center mold. It’s why people say that he’s playing out of position despite the fact that he has developed a good post-up game and plays very good on-ball defense in the lane. But his quickness advantage is evident, as suggested on this blog, may be part of his success as a kind of hybrid player. Well, hybrid players were what the Hawks wanted and got. Now they have to figure out how to make that work against the heavy-hitters.

by rbubp on Jan 31, 2010 8:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Some deals to consider

Here are some options. This may not be very popular but we need to package some deals, here are some proposals:

Package: Rookie, Zaza and draft pick for Brendon Haywood (Washington me be unwilling to go for trading to another Eastern teamt, and Hawks may be unwilling to part ways with Zaza).

Marcus Camby of Clippers. Definitely ready for a trade

Emeka Okaor (Would New Oreans be willing to trade him away, it all depends on CP wishes).

Finally couple others that may be had for cheaper from Golden State: Ronny Turiaf and Chris Hunter.

What is disappointing, is I don’t even hear Hawks name in the rumor mill for trades

by ATLpaul on Jan 31, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No rumor mill talk

That’s because we don’t have the contracts to make a major deal unless we wanted to trade our entire bench or trade a starter.

We’re kinda all-in for the season.

Next year we’ll be in a position to move some contracts. Plus we’ll have better depth next year after drafting Gani Lawal (hopefully).

by axhfan on Jan 31, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hey i got an idea

why dont al gain some more muscle like what dwight howard did a few years back, which what made him dominate

by bballplayer123 on Jan 31, 2010 12:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

right?

doesnt that sound like a good idea to let Al Horford gain around 20 pounds of muscle, u remember when dwight howard enterd the NBA, he was skinny and he’s bulky, I think that’s what Al should do, so he can be more physical, with more strength, reply to me if this is a good idead.

by bballplayer123 on Jan 31, 2010 12:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That should have been a priority last off season

with both Josh and Al. Right now their tweeners; they need to either lose weight to be quicker or gain muscle mass and dominate the inside. I think they really need a prominent low post coach to help their offensive game(if they haven’t already). It seemed to me that Josh and Dwight were basically the same size when they came out of high school but Dwight decided to lift more and that separation caused him to be the all-star he is now.

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Jan 31, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They're both close to the right size for the 4.

Karl Malone was kind of huge for that position, but Amare Stoudemire’s about right, and they’re both pretty close to that, maybe a little smaller.

by rbubp on Jan 31, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It takes time

Al horford will get bigger, but he’s still young and only in his 3rd year.

He probably won’t get as big as Dwight, but I’d say Al is at least as big (if not bigger) than Chris Bosh was in his 3rd year.

by axhfan on Jan 31, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The postgame comments were awful by the Hawks...

Instead of trying to figure out what is going wrong or switch up the game plan (a.k.a isolation basketball), our Captain/All-Star Joe Johnson simply said we cannot beat them. To me, you might as well not even show up to play if you are going to have that attitude. I understand it’s frustrating when the refs give Dwight 18 free throws for mostly questionable touch fouls, but when our All-Star can’t get to the free throw line because he is afraid of contact, then I don’t see the point of even mentioning the bias of the refs.

by VAHawksFan on Jan 31, 2010 1:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

well he just stated the obvious

I don’t know if Joe knows the meaning of drawing the foul while trying to score. But we’ll see what happens between now and the all-star break

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Jan 31, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know

but its frustrating to hear the Captain not give the team a sense of confidence. I hope he figures out how to get to the free throw line as well.

by VAHawksFan on Jan 31, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How much are we paying Bibby? I like the guy, but as good as Sund’s offseason was, the Bibby contract seems like a mistake

The Jordan Schafer Fan Club.

by acie4mvp on Jan 31, 2010 1:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Don't hate on Bibby

It’s a fair contract. Plus he’ll probably be a reserve at some point next year.

by axhfan on Jan 31, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

right

he took a big paycut and got 6M so he could stay with the hawks.

by nbabuff on Jan 31, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully

I do hope Al does get bigger in the future so he can match the centers

by bballplayer123 on Jan 31, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Trade

I just hope that GM Rick Sund can make some trades for the hawks

by bballplayer123 on Jan 31, 2010 1:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

he'd have to package a couple of bench players and draft picks

for anything servicable

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Jan 31, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How about

How about Brendan Haywood of the wizards, a good center

by bballplayer123 on Jan 31, 2010 1:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I went into espn's trade machine

And traded pachulia and mo evans for haywood. It worked and increased our wins by 3 games but washington’s wins decreased by 6.

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Jan 31, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They would do that trade

Unless we packaged it with picks or money

by axhfan on Jan 31, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Uggghhhh

I am just so mad that we can never beat the magic but other teams can, WE NEED EITHER MARCUS CAMBY OR BRENDAN HAYWOOD!

by bballplayer123 on Jan 31, 2010 1:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Camby's trade would require three players

pachulia, joe smith, and mo evans

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Jan 31, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What about Brendan

How many people would require to get Brendan Haywood?

by bballplayer123 on Jan 31, 2010 2:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

pachulia and evans

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Jan 31, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

pachulia and marvin for al jefferson

minnesota won’t buy it

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Jan 31, 2010 2:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

How about it

maxxj3, pachulia and evans for haywood, thats good, what do u think?

by bballplayer123 on Jan 31, 2010 2:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

its sucks we can't figure how to beat them yet but I thought the effort was pretty good last night

The bright side is that this is the only team we can’t compete against. lakers for me Dnt count cause we have went 1-1 with them for the last 3 seasons. we know how to beat them. they have one more chance to figure the magic out before playoffs, lets get it right. Let’s Go Hawks!

by Hawksgirl on Jan 31, 2010 3:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

It won't matter if the Hawks trade for a

supposed legit center if the game plan is still flawed. This recap was spot on. Like maxxj3 pointed out, spacing would help things tremendously. Playing the Magic highlights more than anything how bad of an idea having an offense mostly featuring iso’s is (it’s not a good idea against anyone, but it has a better chance at success against teams unlike the Magic) Ball movement, or hell just player movement would do wonders. If they still haven’t figured out a way to get Dwight out of the lane on defense then it’s not going to happen with this coaching staff. Also, to answer the question of the title of this post, I think Orlando does get up to play the Hawks just like the Hawks get up to play the Celtics. They actually bother to play the way they should be playing against everyone when they play the Hawks. And, they actually make their shots. Oh well, on to the next.

by Co Co on Jan 31, 2010 3:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

tru

a center also doesn’t help out our wing defenders. Our biggest problem against the Magic isn’t Dwight. It’s that we can’t close out 3-point shots so the Magic usually shoot above 40% on 3s.

by axhfan on Jan 31, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i got it

I think I got a plan on how to beat the magic, double team dwight howard ahead of time, that way he’ll have to give the ball up instead of an And1, and make him commit turnovers, what do you guys think?

by bballplayer123 on Jan 31, 2010 3:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Howard played a great game

But the truth is, that’s the best game he’s played against us so far. You can be quick to say that we’ve got personnel issues because Horford struggled against his, but that’s ignoring that the Hawks shot under 40%.

Keep in mind, before yesterday, the Hawks had the league’s second most efficient offense (just behind Phoenix). Yesterday, they played like the New Jersey Nets, and it all came down to knocking down shots. A lot of that is game-planning-you’ve got to figure out how to move the ball in order to create open shots. The isolation story doesn’t work as well when the other team has good perimeter defense and an eraser in the paint.

How do other teams beat the Magic? It’s not by cancelling out Dwight, that’s impossible. Utah did with Mehmet Okur playing Center, spreading out the Magic post players, and letting Deron Williams get in to the basket. CJ Miles can have good games against Orlando-why can’t JJ? Because JJ doesn’t a team-concept offense. Miami’s beaten them twice, and Jermaine O’Neal is not outplaying Dwight. D-Wade goes right at Howard. The hardest shots to block are when a guy is right at you-it’s easier to block from the back side.

Hawks really aren’t going to be able to make any trade of consequence without breaking down the entire team. It’s less about what kind of players we’d need in order to play Orlando, and more about what kind of game plan we’d need. Our coaching staff needs to actually design an offense if they want this team to compete against the Magic. Winging it just hasn’t worked.

by Bronn on Jan 31, 2010 4:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Way old fashioned thinking

but i understand. Fear of not losing a good thing, as opposed to strinking for gold. Black Kojak did all he could last night, it was not the gurads that were the problems. They did all they could, including superstar JJ and Bibby, though JC struggled. Too much to overcome when the frontline can’t score the points. Look at lion’s score sheet. It is fashionable to blame JJ, but wonder what without him????

As for Howard, he is only the best center in the world. So games like last night are understandable. We do have personnel issues. Hawks will always struggle agsinst this team. Hence the reason for people sceaming for a change.

by ATLpaul on Jan 31, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so what do you propose?

I mean your right jj cant always be blamed and al isnt the main problem. What would you do?

by Hawksgirl on Jan 31, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

When the ball isn't moving

that makes it super easy for the defense. The blame for that falls squarely on the person or persons who have the ball the most. The thing about it is that moving the ball would make it easier for them too. If you’re going to let Dwight stand in the paint and defend it, then you’re going to get results similar to the ones the Hawks have been getting.

by Co Co on Feb 1, 2010 10:39 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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