Peachtree Hoops: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: College Football Preseason Top 25 Rankings

Defining success or figuring out Mike Woodson's bottom line


Two seasons ago, the Hawks underachieved in the regular season and surprisingly lost in a game seven in the playoffs. Tough to call a loss an over achievement since it was really more surprising based on the regular season performance than it was based on the talent the Hawks had. So we can simply call that playoff series a regular, good ol' fashion achievement. It was pleasant but hardly a resume builder.

Last year, the Hawks overachieved in the regular season. I did not make any specific predictions but 47 wins was close to the best case I laid out for the Hawks at the start of the season (And my best case involved Speedy Claxton donating his salary to a homeless shelter to inspire an eight game win streak so it was pretty out to reach. Even then, I only had them winning 51.). With the injuries piled up, the Hawks more or less did what was expected of them with a first round win and second round sweep.

If Mike Woodson was not going to be fired two seasons ago, he was certainly going to be brought back after last year. I cannot even argue that. Well, I could. I mean I want to. But I realize it is more bias talking than actual fact.

Now, with Woody entering the final year of his contract, it is time to set some parameters. You can only hate so long before you become a hater, and you can only defend so long before you become a homer. I fancy myself as both so clearly I don't make too many predictions.

But enough is enough. It is time to define success for Mike Woodson. A lot of the teams below the Hawks have gotten better. The teams above Atlanta have remained elite, with the only possibility of winning less because they were so incredibly good last year. So what is a successful season for the team? Not what do you expect to happen? What do you think are reasonable but challenging expectations for a team of this talent and experience?

I do not think Mike Woodson needs to overachieve to keep his job. He needs to simply not underachieve. Coaches are not really brought in to overachieve. This is not college. The NBA already has max talent. You just have to make sure they use it. You simply need to achieve and that is done by putting players in position to do so and keeping them there through effective subbing, having players buy into a philosophy on both ends of the floor, and keeping them focused for as many of the 82 games as possible. No one overachieves to win an NBA title.

So how far do I think the talent on this team can reach? I will say retaining of the fourth seed and the ability to decisively beat an inferior team in the first round and remain competitive in the second. That is my definition of reasonable success. With that, my bar has been set. Which brings me to the difficult proclamation that if Mike Woodson reaches it, I may complain about specifics, but I will support his return to the bench in 2010.

I will put a poll up. But if you plan on defending or ridiculing the coach in comments, fanposts, and shots, lay down your definition of success in the comments. No more hiding. It is time to out the haters and the homers. It is time to define success for the 2009-2010 Atlanta Hawks.

Poll
What will mark a successful coaching season for Mike Woodson?
Just making the playoffs as a seventh or eight seed. I am a Mike Woodson homer.
0 votes
Improving the regular season win total.
14 votes
Keeping the fourth seed and making the second round.
32 votes
Making it to the conference finals.
36 votes
Being a top three seed.
21 votes
A second round playoff appearance regardless of the regular season.
17 votes
A finals apperence. I refuse to stop disliking the coaching of Woody.
12 votes

132 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 13 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

rick sund weighs in....

….just not on this post. over at hoopshype he has an interview

It’s so hard to predict. The three teams that finished ahead of us were bona fide contenders and elite ball clubs. I mean, they were really good. We did beat Cleveland once in the regular season, and we beat Orlando at their place, so we had our moments.

We just need to make sure we keep the teams that are behind us back there, and make strides to catch the ones in front of us. All the teams ahead of us have league MVP candidates on their ball club. Their payrolls are so much higher than ours, and they’ve all used the summer to get better.

But again, we just need to make strides and keep improving from within – because once you get to the playoffs, anything can happen if you get some momentum. The Knicks did it (in 1999), when they reached the Finals as a No. 8 seed. So for us, this season will be another step in the growth process. There’s no telling how good it might end up.

is no one going to go public with their vote? is it just me and Rick?

by hawksdawgs on Sep 21, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I said winning more games

I think that the regular season is a better barometer of of good we are for next year. At this point we are not good enough to take winning a playoff series for granted, although that could change by the end of the season. Of course if it does than that would mean that we took a major stepfoward that would probably be enough to keep woodson.

Personally I would need the Hawks to at least equal last seasons win total to make it a tough decision on whether or not to retain Woody. Realistically he probably just needs to not implode.

by thirdfALCON on Sep 21, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Just now getting to this, but here goes

I’ve never hidden my views of Woodson and his coaching and I feel as though I have stated very clearly where I stand on him and this team. But, to recap, I firmly believe we have the talent to in the least contend for a conference championship, I firmly believe that Woodson’s offensive and defensive philosophy cost this team a lot of close wins and is easily negated by by equal or better teams (and as has been shown, even lesser teams, i.e. Miami, Clippers, Charlotte…), and I would have no problem keeping Woodson around if he showed some aptitude to adapt to changes in game situations and personnel changes.

Again, here is a poll that I would really like to vote on a couple of the listed items. While Keeping the fourth seed and making the second round are important goals, what is even more important is how they play to achieve them. Getting pantsed in the first round by an inferior team and swept in the second round doesn’t cut it. We should easily be able to contend for a conference title, even in this defunct system, so that’s where I went. I don’t believe that under the current circumstances we could possibly contend for a finals appearance, but I will not stop disliking Woodson’s coaching until he proves that he can advance his game past six years ago. We can not hold the players accountable for progressing their games and not do the same for the coach.

So, if making the playoffs was the bar two years ago, and the second round was the bar last year, then the bar has to be the third round this year. Please Coach Woodson, go back through the tapes, but instead of asking what the players could have done differently, ask yourself what you could have done differently, then this time do it. I want nothing more than for you to succeed and take this team to the finals and bring us a ring.

"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."-----Cormican on Bleeding Green Nation w/r/t fans overreacting to the Eagles signing of Michael Vick

by Jesse28 on Sep 21, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I totally agree....

If this ball club won a championship, I would go ape sh*^%!! Atlanta would be bananas for a solid month! Oh well, I digress. Back to reality!

by dstdeelite on Sep 21, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree

this poll you really need 30 options. and really the only reason i had a poll was so people who don’t have an sbnation account or just don’t like commenting on blogs could interact with the post.

i voted 2nd round of playoffs and 4th seed, but i would be disappointed if it is getting blown our three times by an inferior team and then getting swept. but i wrote that. so i am free to heckle if it doesn’t happen.

by hawksdawgs on Sep 21, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with Jesse on this...

The Hawks are so much deeper this year. They have a bench for a change, so there’s no excuse for wearing all the starters out in the first two months. We need to at least contend in the second round. If we lose 4-3, I could live with that, but limping into the second round and then taking a nap won’t work.

And for Woody to be brought back, he has to use substitutions creatively, play Teague an appropriate amount of time, have some set plays besides iso-Joe. You know, like, plays, where people move without the ball so the defenders can’t quintuple-team Joe.

by BeauGust on Sep 22, 2009 12:27 AM EDT reply actions  

The only way I’d bring Woody back is if he showed real improvement in his actual coaching (letting Al and Joe play with 2 fouls in the 2nd quarter, giving Teague real minutes, adding something beyond iso-Joe to the offense, having a better defense than “always switch”), the Hawks overachieved in the regular season (say 55 wins), AND the Hawks either make it to the Conference Finals or lose a well contested 2nd round series while winning at least 2 games and not getting blown out in all of their losses. In other words, I think Woody has amply proven he sucks and (with the arguable exception of the Boston playoff series) has only led the Hawks to where you would expect based on their roster (and probably should have won more games in 2008 and not had to play Boston in Round 1) and therefore he should not be re-hired unless he demonstrably proves otherwise this season.

by redwards95 on Sep 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Comon.

Now you are getting picky… Its all about the result. Shaq’s team has been swept an astonishing 5 times in his career. But who cares!! he has 4 rings !!

by dkrib on Sep 22, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

See. I don’t agree. The result can be an illusion, luck, or simply the expected based on your talent and who you were matched up with. We don’t want to have just one surprise trip to the conference finals. We want the Hawks to be getting there and beyond every year. If Woodson’s Hawks make it to the conference finals this year but Woodson does all the same dumb things that pissed us off in previous years, there’s no reason to think that level of performance will be repeated the following years. Get another coach who can put in a better offense and defense and develop players like Teague, Marvin, and Horford better. It’s not like Woody is Pat Riley or Phil Jackson. He’s done nothing except be in the right place as a terrible team inevitably got better as a result of adding talent.

by redwards95 on Sep 23, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

simple

Whatever way he does it I dont care . Just give me 50 wins with a conference final appearance or a 6 or 7 game 2nd round.

by dkrib on Sep 22, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

so no conference finals

and you will say mike woodson should be gone?

did not expect that from you.

by hawksdawgs on Sep 22, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

All About Progress

I think of myself as neither a Mike Woodson hater or lover. I’m glad Rick Sund didn’t give him a contract extension yet. Why? Because there have been a number of coaches fired from teams who in my opinion were a lot better and had winning records. Mr. Woodson has had five seasons to produce results, with 2008-09 being his only winning season. I’m not convinced yet as to whether or not he should be fired or rehired. I do know this 2009-10 is the season for Mr. Woodson to convince everyone that he should be rehired. All the teams in our division are now healthy. Most are predicting big things for the Wizards and Orlando. It should be a very competitive and an interesting year.

I look at this topic from a progressive perspective. The Hawks have continually made progress throughout his five years, with the best being 07-08 and 08-09! Okay not really that much in 07-08 record wise but getting to the playoffs wise. Getting to the playoffs in 07-08 and going 7 games with the eventual champs is good. Making it to the playoffs a second year in a row, in fourth place, securing homecourt advantage, and winning the first round is great. Now 2009-10 the Hawks should take the next step in progress, another winning season, 3rd place in division, 2nd round victory, trip to the conference finals. If this doesn’t happen then the Hawks have taken a step back.

So my answer to defining success or Mike Woodson’s bottom line is a conference finals appearance. If this doesn’t happen, then consider me among those who think Mr. Woodson should be fired. Point blank, period.

by DPhenomenal1 on Sep 25, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

My Bad I made a mistake

This is what I meant to type: Now 2009-10 the Hawks should take the next step in progress,and that is another winning season, 3rd place in the conference which means 1st place in the SE division, 2nd round victory, and a trip to the conference finals. If this doesn’t happen then the Hawks have taken a step back.

Again I wanna stress, it’s all about progress, and if that doesn’t happen, then it should be bye bye Mr. Woodson.

by DPhenomenal1 on Sep 25, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about the Atlanta Hawks.
Start posting about the Hawks »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

SBNation.com Recent Stories

NEW YORK CITY NY - AUGUST 12:  Kevin Durant #5 looks on during the World Basketball Festival USAB Showcase at Radio City Music Hall on August 12 2010 in New York City. (Photo by Chris Trotman/Getty Images for Nike) +4 updates

FIBA World Championships 2010: Team USA Routs Iran 88-51, Clinches Top Spot In Group B

Cleveland Cavaliers' Delonte West, right, shoot over Indiana Pacers' Jeff Foster in the first half of a NBA basketball game in Indianapolis, Monday, April 13, 2009.  (AP Photo/Michael Conroy) link

Celtics Sign Free Agent Delonte West

Rose +2 updates

FIBA World Championships 2010: Team USA Ekes Out 70-68 Win Over Brazil

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Zaza_pachulia_small hawksdawgs

Nique_small The Human Highlight Blog

438px-atlanta_hawks_logo Kris Willis

Editors

Logo_small Fan Scribe Chris

Authors

Superman_small Bronn