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Is Jeff Teague different from Acie Law?

Jeff-teague1_mediumT1-law_medium

       via dimemag.com                                                                                                                                    via i.a.cnn.net

Jeff Teague is not a true point guard. Acie Law is not a true point guard. Acie Law does nothing exceptionally well. Jeff Teague does nothing exceptionally well. The Hawks drafted Acie Law. The Hawks also drafted Jeff Teague. Mike Woodson enjoyed playing Mario West more than Acie Law. Visa vi Jeff Teague will be playing for Sacramento in three years.

Could it be clearer? Acie Law is Jeff Teague. Jeff Teague is Acie Law. Finkle is Einhorne. Or at the very least, Mike Woodson will make that comparison a match no matter how true the reality is.

It seems to be an open and closed case. Jeff Teague either is or will be forced into being just like Acie Law. If no major skill jumps off the page forcing Woodson to play him, our coach has never shown a pension for wanting or having the ability to find minutes for young point guards.

It all makes sense. And it is all so wrong.

The Youtube case.

Is it a bit of a cheap argument? Of course. Does it say something about their style of game? It must.

Acie Law has two game winners. Great game winners. And they have well deserved youtube videos. But that is it. He makes no other substantial appearances. Jeff Teague has highlight mixes. He hurts peoples' feelings. He dunks. He crosses over. He hits the three. Acie may do a lot of that, but not with the athleticism of Jeff Teague.

The college years case

Acie Law finished four years of college. Jeff Teague finished two. Both guys improved every year. So those similar stats at this juncture with Jeff only being a sophomore would seem to dictate that Teague would have been a better player as a senior than Acie Law was.

Acie increased his scoring each year from 7.5 his freshman year to 18.1 in his senior season. However, for many of the important stats behind that point increase, the large jump came between freshman to sophomore year. His fg%, assist total, and rebounding numbers all jumped very close to what would end up being Acie's college career highs.

The two biggest improvements that did not show themselves until Law's senior year were three point shooting and the ability to get to the line. In a sense, Acie found the two easiest ways to score more points. In leveling off early in the other areas of his game, he also demonstrated the player he would be if he ever understood the NBA game as well as had come to know the college one. Acie had improved and then peaked in most areas of his offensive game by his senior year.

As a sophomore, Jeff Teague scored more points than Acie Law did in his senior year and accomplished the feat with less shot attempts. Teague had roughly the same efficiency and PER (17.4 and 24 respectively) as Acie did in his senior year. But compared to Law's sophomore year, Teague had an almost 6 point advantage in PER and four point difference in efficiency. (All stats from Draftexpress.com).

Stats can prove just about any point of course. But as you look at the entire picture, you see two guys at the end of their sophomore year. One (Teague) is noticeably statistically better and has a style of game and an athleticism that seems to suggest drastic improvement could continue. The other player (Acie) has a game that had reached its rough peak and would only be able to add a more nuanced approach to scoring.

In a point guard/combo guard heavy draft, the Hawks have a player that may have been drafted lower than Acie Law but who offers a much greater upside that will force the team to pursue that potential.

Star-divide

James-teague_medium

The GM Affect 

 

 

I understand Woodson has a penchant for forgetting players exist on his team. That he used to bring Josh Childress in at the same time, for the same person (Marvin), every game for an entire year. That he decides his player rotation and sub pattern by picking out lottery balls with each players name on it in mid October. That he only eats whole chickens for dinner. I get it.

But if for one second, you think Rick Sund is going to let Mike Woodson stifle, in any way, Teague's development, you are on the crazy train taking the crazy pills. Jeff Teague may in fact be the same kind of player Acie Law was or at least the kind of player Acie was allowed to be in Atlanta, but we are darn well going to know.

GMs don't want their draft picks to fail. It makes business sense, it makes personal sense, it makes basketball sense. You just do not draft a guy to play five minutes less in his second year than he did in his first. I am not saying Teague will come out averaging 20 minutes a game, but his playing time will be much more calculated than an 18 minutes stretch followed by 2 DNPs and then a six minute go at it.

The end date

Mike Bibby has a three year contract with the Hawks. Going into the final year of said contract, the team will have two seasons before they will tender Jeff Teague a contract and possibly sign him to a long term deal.

Jamal Crawford will no longer be under contract. Bibby will be 34 by the end of the season. A very old 34. The timing works both in terms of need and development for Jeff Teague to be the starting point guard in 2011-12.

Acie Law was drafted in a point guard light draft where the Hawks only real pressing need after drafting Horford was at that position. He joined a team needing to make the playoffs and he was not ready to lead them. The Hawks went and acquired Mike Bibby, and with a year and half left on his deal, the trade knocked Acie off his path to the starting spot. By the time the decision rolled around whether the organization needed to resign Bibby, a point guard heavy draft was at hand and Acie's potential or lack thereof was not enough to keep the Hawks from moving on without him.

Teague joins a team that has enough talent and skill to make the playoffs without having to go out and get a piece at point guard, and the player ahead of him on the depth chart has an end date.

All this mumbo jumbo is a very long way of saying the path ahead of Jeff Teague will not change and has an end. Acie Law had neither of these things.

Final thoughts

Is Jeff Teague a starting point guard in the NBA? Obviously no one knows that. But does his talent, skill, and situation give him the opportunity to be one? You darn right. Acie Law and Jeff Teague have two things truly in common; they will play the same position and have the same coach in the NBA.

Mike Woodson may do the same thing, every game with each specific player. But he does not do the same thing for every player every time. And Jeff Teague's upside and skills and the organization's timeline, makeup, and leadership will make sure Mike Woodson boxes Jeff in a new and different box.

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Color me unconvinced. Which of Bibby, Joe, and Crawford do you expect Woody to give less minutes to than he did Bibby, Joe, and Flip last year in order to give Teague more minutes than he did Acie? Unless one of the top 3 guards misses a lot of time with an injury, I wouldn’t expect Teague to play much more than Acie did.

by redwards95 on Jul 28, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it will certainly take coaching i will give you that.

but joe should be avg. 36-ish minutes a game like Kobe does.

bibby is going to be most effective at around 30 minutes.

you play joe at the three for say 8 minutes a game with a teague/bibby, crawford, joe line up.

that leaves 36 minutes left over. I would take two strong 7 minute showings from Teague in his rookie season and that leaves 24 minutes for Crawford.

bam. that just happened.

the overall point is that he may only get/need/should have about 14 minutes a game his rookie season. but i expect that total to grow each year and if he is actual player, to be at 20 plus by year three.

by hawksdawgs on Jul 28, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in no way was the above post

endorsing joe as a kobe caliber player. just that with some kind of depth, you don’t have to play your best player the whole time. that is actually the point of adding quality bench players.

by hawksdawgs on Jul 28, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like the rotation is set. Now all we have to do is figure out how to get Zaza 20-22 minutes per game, and we’re golden.

by Bronn on Jul 28, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't expect him to play more than 10 minutes a game either

but I think it is important to note that Acie played twice as much minutes than Greasy, both per game and total.

But yeah Teague won’t get more than spot minutes

by thirdfALCON on Jul 28, 2009 1:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i just said that woodson "liked" playing mario more

not that mario actually played more.

woodson loves him some mario.

by hawksdawgs on Jul 28, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL don't we all

that’s true though, Mario was more likely to get into the game if the score was in doubt. I was pretty surprised to see that stat myself. I would have thought that Greasy played more.

by thirdfALCON on Jul 28, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We all love us some Mario…at least every now and again. Remember that 3 point shot he made last year? That was cool.

by Bronn on Jul 28, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fyi

i was at the team gear store yesterday and the mario west jersey has a very prominent placement.

however, he seems like the kind of guy that should have a nickname on the back his jersey instead of his actual last name.

by hawksdawgs on Jul 28, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like Ocho-Cinco

Oh wait, that IS that guy’s last name.

by Bronn on Jul 28, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

cuz..

mario actually plays defense thats y

by ca$hmere36 on Jul 29, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's exactly it.

Woody much more often put Greasy on the floor in situations where the outcome was still in doubt. This is why I feel Acie’s numbers last year, even with his slight improvement, could not be taken seriously, because his role was reduced almost exclusively to end of the bench mop-up man.

But not Greasy! He was our best end of the half Kobe lock down guy.

by rbubp on Jul 28, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good post...

BTW, nice post here, Drew. You’ve almost convinced me that the Hawks may have someone they can use and develop.

I do think Woodson will have to grow some stones where he hasn’t before had them, though, to play the guy. remember, he’s going to have to tell Joe to sit down EVEN WHEN JOE DOESN’T WANT TO.

by rbubp on Jul 28, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

agreed

it hurt my woodson disliking heart when i heard joe (and not woody) often is the one who pushes his minutes above 40 a game.

although i guess their is still room to blame the coach there….:)

by hawksdawgs on Jul 28, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, i think there's plenty of room left

to blame Woody for that. I mean, who is the coach here? Isn’t it HIS job to decide how to use the players, especially to not risk injury or overuse in meaningless situations?

by rbubp on Jul 28, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most of the people that post have no understanding

Acie Law was the show at Texas A&M. Teague played with atleast 2 other NBA players last year. That makes a huge difference when playing at this level. It will help him develop much faster than Law. Also quickness is something that jumps out. So, anyone saying that Teague does nothing exceptionally well there argument is already flawed. Acie is not quick or does not understand how to use it effectively which goes back to looking at who he played with in college. I never got the feeling that Acie could do whatever he wanted on the court. I always thought of he and Marvin Williams as brothers of sort for their unagressive lackluster carefree play, but they are suppose to be so,so, talented. The bottom line is Acie never really learned how to play with others and that’s a skill Teague already has.

by Hawks-Semi Fan on Jul 28, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So, what are you saying Teague does exceptionally well?

“Quickness”?

Is that a skill? If it is (it’s NOT), Teague may have it, but Acie was supposed to have it too.

I’m not arguing for Acie or against Teague. They look the same, their scouting reports were the same, they have the same no-court-time no adjustments coach.

by rbubp on Jul 28, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Teague is quicker than Law and shoots the ball better

The most common comparison I heard about Law when we drafted him was Sam Cassel. In other words he was going to have to be crafty to be a successful pro. So I think there is an easier path lined up ahead of Teague than there was Law.

by thirdfALCON on Jul 28, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love that photo of Woodson. He looks so excited to be there.

Caption this photo: “Damn, another man I have to work into the rotation. Oh well.”

At any rate, i think Teague is more talented than Acie Law. Remember, when we got Acie, we thought we were getting a guy who was fairly well developed, and would transition to the NBA fairly quickly. That was supposed to be the plus side of Acie-a player that Woodson wouldn’t need to develop, one he could just plug in.

Of course we saw when Acie got here that his point skills were a little raw, and his shooting needed work, so of course, he never got a chance to develop within games. The role he was asked to play also didn’t fit his skillset, so his learning curve became even longer than it needed to be.

With Teague, I’m hopeful that he doesn’t end up pegged as a pure distributing point, and actually gets a chance to display the range of his skills on the floor. He’s probably got a better chance of succeeding than Acie, but he almost certainly ends up with fewer minutes his rookie season.

by Bronn on Jul 28, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

agreed

he seems like the kind of guy that in order thrive is going to need a little free reign in regards to shot selection and ability to have the ball in his hands.

by hawksdawgs on Jul 28, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“Of course we saw when Acie got here that his point skills were a little raw, and his shooting needed work”
—which were in ALL of the scouting reports…

by rbubp on Jul 28, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff teague is NOT Acie Law

Please guys Acie Law was not the PG of the Hawks. Dont blame Woodson for that. There has been countless guys that have been drafted and did not make it. Why does Woodsen get the blame for Acie Law not being " the guy". Acie Law could not shoot ( he had very poor shooting machanics). He could not drive past anybody.
Did any of you watch the Golden State games in the summer league? Here was a guy that had a lot to prove. He is in a new situation, he is in the last year of his countract. What did he do? He played horrible!!!. You want to go ahead and blame Woodsen for that? Until Acie becomes an All Star on another team, it is unfair to blame Woodson for not developing him.

by dkrib on Jul 28, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Deciding that Acie is a bust following this year's summer league performance

is like expecting a break-out season following his summer performance last year.

I honestly believe Acie could, and perhaps will, turn out to be a quality NBA starter. He plays solid defense, and he’s got good instincts with the ball in his hands. Asking him to hang out on the perimeter and wait for the ball seriously marginalizes him as his shooting from college didn’t translate. He was asked to fill the Mike Bibby role during his time on the floor much too often.

by Bronn on Jul 28, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deep down I do too

Plenty of point guards took several years to turn into good players. Steve Nash, Sam Cassel, Chauncy Billups.

But I think he’s going to have to really learn how to play perfectly. He’s a guy that’s not going to be able to do it on just talent, he’ll have to be smarter than everyone else. Who knows if he is capable of that or not.

by thirdfALCON on Jul 28, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff Teague=Acie Law V until I see otherwise from either Woodson or Teague.

by rbubp on Jul 28, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey how about

we get avery johnson next year to coach the squad?

by ca$hmere36 on Jul 29, 2009 8:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

A tell tale sign...

is who comes and goes the next few years as a free agent.

One of the better things about the Bibby deal is he is now cheap enough to be a backup, or moved elsewhere. Does Marvin eventually resign? Likely, especially knowing the sloth-like pace of Hawks and restricted free agents, but if not a 3 G lineup of Bibby, Crawford, and Johnson running with Smith and Horford makes a lot of sense, and opens up time off the bench for Teague. If Williams does resign, for how long comes into play, but it just blocks bench time.

Then comes 2010 with Joe Johnson a free agent, among so many others. I can’t help but think Crawford was brought in so that Johnson would be expendable considering the similarities in position and game.

Combine the free agencies of Marvin Williams and Joe Johnson, that allows the Hawks to break in Teague slowly as a rookie, and either get a big spike up in minutes next year or resign them to continue to block his path towards minutes. Add the relatively cheapness of the Bibby deal, and Teague can essentially play as much or as little as his play on the floor demands it. Nice options to have if the Hawks can actually play the hand properly.

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 29, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that is just cheesy enough

for me to start using as a joke and use it so much that I forget to preface its joke status and people will just assume i use cheesy nick names.

HERE IS TO THE 3G NETWORK!

by hawksdawgs on Jul 29, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

INTRODUCING YOUR 09-10 HAWKS!

Starring an all new 3G Network! See amazing Wing-ISO’s at a blindingly fast pace of 89.9ppg!!! Watch as Tiny Mike, Crawfish Crawford, and Super Joe dribble down opponents 20 seconds at a time! You’ll be so amazed watching the action that you will think you are watching it in slow motion with piano music during each and every possession!!!

Even Woodson is impressed with how easy and predictable the new 3G Network is:



http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/111156/610×.jpg

by Jesse28 on Jul 30, 2009 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Acie Law Spained a Finger and Hurt Foot , Ankle, or knee in First year or Two. Although generally Healthy , he sat a little for that.

Acie Hurt a Foot or ankle or Something and sat a little for that.
       If Teague can Stay Healthy He Should Get Plenty of Playing Time I See Joe Johnson, Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford, Jeff Teague Getting all type Of Productive Minutes next year as Well as Other Subs.

by Jeff Gibson on Jul 29, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comparing Jeff Teague to Acie Law is like comparing Jesus to God

by acie4mvp on Jul 30, 2009 12:20 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

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