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A brief reprieve on Mike Woodson's player development skills

I have never thought Mike Woodson was good at developing players. For all Woodson's negatives, this one can actually be a point of contention. It is one area where I could lose to a debate to the few staunch Woody supporters. Whereas in game foul managmenet and the infrequency of touches in the post are slam dunk arguments for me, the facts don't always sway so easily to my side with this one.

Woodson has after all had either the youngest team in the league or one of the youngest every year he has been in Atlanta, and the Hawks record has improved with each one. Still, I have long placed more credit toward that improvement in the natural maturation of a player and the radical improvement of players surrounding those highly athletic young guys. There were no Joe Johnson's, Al Horford's, or even Mo Evans on that 13 win team. And if Woodson was truly a developer of talent, we would see Marvin improve his aggression, Josh play largely close to the hoop, and Al Horford get more touches. What I mean is that Marvin working on a three point shot has little or nothing to do with Woodson if he does not use that extra spacing said shot provides to improve and develop the surrounding players.

However, I stumble along articles like this one (via Ball Don't Lie) from the Contra Coast Times and I realize, while I may not be wrong in my assesment of Coach Woodson, I am not totally right.

After spending much of his first two seasons on the bench in Atlanta, [Acie] Law expressed relief over getting out of Atlanta when the Warriors acquired him last month in the Jamal Crawford trade. He said he was hoping the Warriors were his chance to finally show what he can do. So far, not so good. According to several Warriors staffers in attendance for summer league, Law is not in the best of shape and seems to be lacking confidence. He's shown his ability to pass and court vision — he's found forward Anthony Randolph in transition on several occasions — but he's hardly done enough to make anyone believe he'll be competing for playing time this coming season. The Warriors have the option of picking up the fourth year of Law's rookie contract (2010-11). But that seems unlikely at this point considering his lack of production and the fact he's most valuable to the Warriors as a $2.2 million expiring contract."

Well, shoot if that doesn't sound like the Acie Law of the last two years. Now, Golden State is no model franchise, and this is just summer league we are talking about (not even a finished summer league), and they just drafted Stephen Curry and could easily be doing exactly what we did to Acie here, but I long used Acie as an example of how once Woodson lost the safety net of failure and expectations began to have the word "playoffs" in them our coach stopped even allowing young talent to develop naturally.

But maybe, just maybe, Acie Law is not that good. Maybe Woodson could have given him more playing time and he could have become good, but it is hard to convince a man who has a job on the line to play a young guy so the coach that takes over the team after Woodson is fired takes over a better, deeper team. Most humans cannot follow that logic without a deep lack of self worth.

I hope Acie Law becomes a very good player. He would not be the first point guard to blossom after his second or third team. However, as of now, I can admit at least in this case, I could not see the forest for the trees and with a little perspective, those DNPs for Acie Law may be a little more forgivable.

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I wouldn't argue it's the sole reason

but why couldn’t he be out of shape and lacking confidence in part because he’s spent most of the last two seasons buried on the bench?

by Hoopinion on Jul 15, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i meant to write that

but i must have been too caught up in giving mike woodson the benefit of the doubt.

by hawksdawgs on Jul 15, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to agree

that it’s still too early to tell if Acie’s closeting was his fault or Woodson’s. Woody has a such a track record of being an idiot that it’s hard not to blame him for the demise of the dodo, the collapse of the stock market, and other assorted failings.

by rbubp on Jul 15, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Drew

I know that was hard for you : )

by thirdfALCON on Jul 15, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i was just about to write something in favor of woodson

got really scared that we were thinking the same thing and my first blog on the hawks was going to be waisted, but that is not the case.

And yeah. If he was out of shape then that explains a lot because Mike Woodson does not like out of shape players. Then again Acie was not timid in college (i don’t think) so that might be the years in the Woodson system, but only time will tell and then again nothing will ever be certain. so yeah.

by RealSquawk on Jul 15, 2009 7:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it is

Here is the link, but there are no Hawk related post up there right now.

by RealSquawk on Jul 16, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

anachronisticorder.blogspot.com

by RealSquawk on Jul 16, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s quite possible Acie just isn’t up to playing PG in the NBA. Then again we’re talking about a team and a coach that let Speedy rot in street clothes despite being perfectly healthy and gave minutes to Mario West and Solomon Jones in non-blowouts.

by redwards95 on Jul 15, 2009 8:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he was depressed cause Woodson was mean to him, and he’s one of those peoplethat eats when he’s sad?

by thirdfALCON on Jul 15, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sure, this year he's out of shape

As opposed to last year, when we had stories like this and this followed up by this one

Perhaps the reason he lacks confidence and is out of shape is because he played better across the board last year, but only got 65% of the playing time. Being punished for improving would be enough to make me timid in most areas of my life, as well. And I might lose the will to work out and stay in shape.

by Bronn on Jul 15, 2009 11:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry for the linkage overkill

I hope no one goes snowblind over the excessively forthcoming linkstorm. I’m surprised Brett restrained himself from linking to the entirety of his summer league posts from last season.

by Bronn on Jul 15, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's debatable

that he so clearly played better. I mean, he improved his threes percentage and assist rate, but it seems shooting more threes, which he’s not good at, lowered his shooting percentage considerably.

I’m just sayin.’ I think he deserved more of a chance than Woodson gave him, and your other links illustrate a player a doing the right things to be ready, but his performance on court when he did get the chance—usually against second- and third-teamers—was not good.

by rbubp on Jul 16, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re missing quite a bit-probably looking at per game numbers instead of per36 and advanced statistics, which is what you need to do because he played fewer minutes per game last year by far.

His assist % was up, his TO % was down, and both of those are very important for PGs. His TS% was still below league average, but it improve drastically because he did a better job of getting to the foul line, where he has little problem hitting his foul shots. The only significant areas where you see a setback is in steal %, but his overall defensive picture still seems to have improved drastically (according to on/off stats, he hurt the Hawks’ defense in 2007-08, but helped it dramatically last year).

End result, his PER is up, his win shares were up, and most other measures have him taking great strides forward.

by Bronn on Jul 16, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, right.

We can pick out particular stats all we want that justify our point of view. When I watched the guy on the court I saw someone who was a lousy shooter and looked out of rhythm every time. Here’s a stat that you conveniently ignored: his shooting got WORSE by a significant amount even though, yes, his PER jumped from a truly abysmal 7.92 to a merely unacceptable 10.68. Even his dramatic 3 point improvement is suspect because it’s such a small sample (and here again he went from truly awful to merely below average).

I would not call that “great” strides forward. Especially in light of his role as mop up guy—he was playing almost every minute against the other team’s worst OR when the game was effectively over.

I did look at the per 36, and the per 40, what I see is SLIGHT improvement—mitigated by what we all know was a lessened role. So we see it differently, and you this is evidence of what “great” improvement Law made from Year 1 to Year 2; I say the jury’s out, despite that I wish he had gotten more of a chance even if his numbers were not very good. I guess we’ll see.

by rbubp on Jul 16, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t often look at straight FG% (unless I’m oggling the 57% number that Childress put up a couple years ago) but yes, he did get worse. And that translates to slight negative impact on his eFG% as well, which is the measure of how efficient your shots fall. And he made drastric strides a 3 point shooter last year, despite still being rather poor. His overall FG% took a hit as a result of taking more 3s, but since more of his makes were 3 point makes, he was still nearly as efficient.

If you add the fact that he got to the foul line more (that’s TS%), he was a more effective scorer overall. A rather significant jump of .35 points, and that’s in less playing time, meaning he wasn’t getting as many opportunities. His scoring didn’t improve very much because, even when he was on the floor, he was average even fewer shot attempts.

He definitely improved in nearly every way last year, even though there weren’t any drastic leaps in any significant category. And for improving, he was rewarded with less playing time, which is the real problem.

by Bronn on Jul 16, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But don’t you see that our guard rotation was much better last year? That largely explains the lack of minutes for Acie.

It’s much easier to play when you battling Anthony Johnson, and Tyron Lue for PT, then Bibby and Flip. That was only half te season sure, but even after the Bibby trade we still didn’t have a third guard tat was worth much

by thirdfALCON on Jul 16, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

woodson was right

acie is grown no one forces you to eat and confidence comes from the inside and cant be taken away from the strong. it was the right move to ship him out cuz a lack of confidence can spread through a locker and land on other weak minded people.

besides i thought acie was a vegan, man thats a whole lot of carrots, lol

by ca$hmere36 on Jul 16, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Acie the quandary

There were times I could have sworn he was ready to break out. I scratched my head over Woody letting Acie sit while Rajon Rondo got to the lane repeatedly. I was amazed how he was the fastest player on the court at all times he played. All the promise in the world and he just couldn’t break through.

I guess in this case Woody (and now Sund) were right. Drafting Acie was a no-brainer, but so was the trade of Acie to get Crawford.

by Duff_Man on Jul 16, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They both suck and should be sent to Greece with Childress’ punkass

by Dammit JIm on Jul 16, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sugarcoating?

As a #11 pick, Acie is a bust. Plain and simple. People can say his lack of PT in ATL has damaged him but that’s crazy. Is Acie the 1st guy to not get PT with a ball club and then get traded? There are numerous players who have done great things with their second team or even third. No carry over at all from their 1st situation. So I guess if he plays the same amount of minutes in G.S. as he did in Atl this past season, its Don Nelson’s fault also?

by xavip on Jul 17, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

blaming a player for where he is drafted

is like blaming a person for where they were born.

by hawksdawgs on Jul 17, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

but I also think that alot of people assume he is good because of where he was drafted, which as just as dumb.

by thirdfALCON on Jul 17, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've always maintained that it was a poor pick.

After seeing him play, anyway. Not just for his weaknesses, but also for what the Hawks tried to get him to do.

by rbubp on Jul 17, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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