Can you enjoy another team's superstar in the playoffs?
by hawksdawgs on Apr 23, 2009 4:12 PM EDT
35 comments
Well, it only took one loss, but I am over Dwyane Wade, which I am pretty sure makes me a bad loser.
And I had a whole rant lined up ridiculous it was that he stared down Joe Johnson after hitting a three on a lucky freaking bank and how he guards the weakest defender on the Hawks and how superstars should demand the toughest defensive assignment. It was going to be great, mostly unfounded hate.
But the more I thought about it, the bigger the actual issue seemed to be. In today's NBA, is it possible to enjoy the play of a superstar wing when that player is playing against your team?
See I think Dwyane Wade is awesome. I have always enjoyed watching him play. During the Olympics, dude was a revelation. I had no ill will toward him going into this series. Just fear. And yet, two games in, and I have begun to loathe him.
A game here and a game there playing super stars allows fans to gear up, get excited, enjoy the show. The small annoyances do not really have time to settle in, but a seven game series makes these opposing players like family you cannot get rid of. And Dwyane Wade's act has already begun to wear thin.
That fourth foul on Joe Johnson last night was a dumb risk by Joe, but the flop by Dwyane Wade was just loserish. You got made fun of for that kind of stuff when I was eight. A few minutes later Dwyane was called for an offensive foul and played hurt for the next possession. The crowd cheered as he lay on the ground. I don't think maliciously as much as they just knew he was not injured. You did not even make fun of the kid that faked injuries back in my eight your old world. You just talked about him behind his back.
And it is not just Dwyane Wade. Watch Paul Pierce or Chris Paul. And you know what I blame? The hand checking rules. They have given birth to flops 35 feet from the basket. They have created whiners and people that are skillful at drawing fouls (and notice how I didn't say contact). Everything is a complaint because literally everything can be a foul, and if you are a superstar, you are just used to getting fouls called when you are fouled. And the whole thing just builds on itself to where you are faking injuries for a possession and falling down 80 feet from the basket. If you are the fan of the other team, it all just piles on top of the awesome so that you forget about respecting the skill and start asking, "What's to like about this guy again?"
I remember when the superstar call was Michael Jordan pushing off. Did that dude ever flop? The only reason he wanted to be fouled was so he could get that third point. It is why I have loved watching Derrick Rose in the playoffs (and granted the Hawks are not playing against him), but the man just goes at it. Sometimes the shot goes in and sometimes it doesn't, but he lets the skills speak, and it makes for great basketball. And it is not that you need to be shy, I actually think Kobe models the old style of play quite well.
Anyway, the argument sounds so sour grapes. In a way, it is. The Hawks do not have a superstar. The closest thing we guy we got only allows himself to speak three words a game. Plus, Dwyane Wade is a great basketball player. Let's work out a trade and get him on the Hawks. But if you are rooting against him, he angers you for more than the great shots he hits, and that is a shame. But what can you do, the NBA made him that way.
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And it is not just Dwayne Wade. Watch Paul Pierce or Chris Paul. And you know what I blame? The hand checking rules. They have given birth to flops 35 feet from the basket. They have created whiners and people that are skillful at drawing fouls (and notice how I didn’t say contact). Everything is a complaint because literally everything can be a foul, and if you are a superstar, you are just used to getting fouls called when you are fouled.
I think you nailed it in “everything can be a foul.” I think that’s exactly the issue.
I completely agree with everything you wrote.
What if centers/power forwards got the type of calls Dwayne Wade gets? If the officiating keeps progressing like it is, the game will eventually be a free throw shooting contest.
But the NBA has no incentive to loosen up the rules because they’re getting the results they want … Superstars advancing in the playoffs.
If the Hawks move on to play the Cavs, I look forward to reading about Lebron’s favorite officiating problem … the continuation.
I totally agree
It irritates me to no end when a player leans into another one to “draw” the foul. The call seems backwards to me. I guess it just depends on the refs. In Game 1 he spent most of the night sprawled out on the hardwood. He didn’t get a 1/3 of the calls he did last night. I guess Stern had his say so. The media wants a LeBron/D-Wade. After ousting Wade, they want LeBron/Kobe. It’s written in the heavens….it’s ordained…..I would give my right arm for an upset of any kind….beginning with the Hawks! Go Hawks!!
All correct...
and the only thing I have to add is that it will bring actual legitimacy to the tired old “us against the world” motivational approach Woody was bringing to this series.
What Am I Missing
For one D-Wade has not done anything special in this series. 33 pts is a mere 3 pts above his average. The Hawks have done a good job on dude. Also who says the Hawks or maybe even the Heat play the Cavs in the 2nd round. Last time I checked NBA realigned in the 2nd round if any upset takes place and the Sixers and or the Bulls are going to win their series. So, that would put the Cavs against the Sixers or the Bulls. Finally, I dont enjoy the Wade hype. We beat them with highlight after highlight Sunday and we get mentioned in the late 2nd or 3rd segment of Sportscenter. They beat us in a game where their were few highlights and its the lead story, because they want to market this guy as the series. I could care less about Wade or Lebron. Dont like either as a basketball player. Dont like the way the league promotes things. Makes you think things could quite possibly be fixed not only by the falling ref.
How definite?
As definite as you were about Flynn not coming out?
by Hawks-Semi Fan on Apr 23, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Brackets are set
NAS designed your BLUEPRINT, who you kidding?
Is he H TO THE IZZO, M TO THE IZZO?
For shizzle you phony, the rapping version of SISQO~Nas
by I blocked Patrick Chewing on Apr 23, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
What league
does re-seed? i’ve never heard of such a thing happening anywhere, any time.
didnt mean for the post to be a ref bashing necessarily
or that i don’t like wade because he is good and/or beating us.
just that the way games are called now, it has conditioned a lot of star players to play and act in a way that is hard to enjoy.
Fouls are why I dubbed some scoring nights "Paul Pierce Nights"
Make 9 FGs and score 35! Players relying on fouls is a big problem. Drawing fouls has become primary, and making skilled shots has become secondary. Unfortunately for the Hawks, they get to the line legitimately and then don’t make the FTs.
LOL NO Mention of Queen James?
How about 3 second call on Howard in Cleavland, Magic down by 1 with the ball 30 seconds left.
3 seconds?
LOL you can’t hate on Howard for any of the offenses above, He does not see the ball in the 4th and When he sees the ball in the other 3 he gets fouled and shoots 59%
LOL@Howard at the Free throw line
NAS designed your BLUEPRINT, who you kidding?
Is he H TO THE IZZO, M TO THE IZZO?
For shizzle you phony, the rapping version of SISQO~Nas
by I blocked Patrick Chewing on Apr 23, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions
above all the worst
is the lake of pride some of these guys. which isn’t to say they are humble but more that they don’t take pride in playing the game. the whole “pump fake and get you in the air but now i’ll jump in to you even though there is no way this would be a normal shot just to get a foul” bullshit is ridiculous. I’m glad no one on the hawks does that crap because it irritates me. There needs to be some sort of rule where you cannot try to jump through someone and initiate the contact. it silly that the defender is at fault because he was in the air even though he did not intrude on the space immediately occupied or above the shooter. It’s the baseball equivalent of jumping onto the plate and claiming you deserve first base because the pitcher hit you.
I thought there was already
They added it before last year I thought. The defender is entitled to his immediate space just as much as the shooter. If the defender jumps vertically, then the shooter can not jump into the defender to draw a foul, instead that would be an offensive foul, turning the ball over. If however, the defender is jumping toward the shooter, then as far as I can tell, the shooter can still jump into the defender drawing the foul. I saw a few of those get called an offensive foul in the early half of the first year, but it wasn’t called as often as it should have been, and I can’t remember it being called at all down the stretch or since.
The game has gotten worse over the years from an officiating and rules standpoint, while the level of play and the talent involved has gotten much better. I’m not as concerned with the rules so much since everyone has to play under the same rules, they are what they are. Sure, I think some of them need to go away and some need to be adjusted, but what concerns me more is the mentality of the players who abuse those rules and the officiating of said rules. I personally believe that those two things are intertwined and that it all starts with the officiating. It’s so inconsistent from not only player-to-player, but also from the inside to the outside. How is it that playing down low both offensive and defensive players can push and shove constantly against each other, vyeing for position, yet no calls, but if a shooter 35ft from basket gets looked at wrong, brushed against, then it’s a foul almost every time? Especially so if the player is a whiner and actor.
Which leads me to the part of this game that I hate most. I hate players that whine their way to a foul call. I hate players who flop constantly. I hate that mentality and I blame horrible inconsistant officiating for rewarding it and nuturing it. If I wanted to watch that crap, I would go watch La Liga or some other European soccer league, and I’m an avid soccer fan.
But back to the post, if there is anyone I already hate, it’s not Wade. Dude hit everything he threw up, nothing to hate about that. But Chalmers, that guy needs a serious hard foul to put him in check. I tend to be one who doesn’t watch the ball while watching games and over the course of these two games I’ve noticed Chalmers throwing elbows, bumping and pushing, after the whistle constantly, like he’s been around the league for ten years. Someone needs to put that rook in check quick. A good Smith hard foul would make me happy. He’s the guy that I wouldn’t doubt would nutcheck you if he thought he could get away with it.
"If Woody were Captain of the Titanic, he'd argue the boat sinking speaks to how effectively they put rich people in life boats and lock the poor folks below."
-jrauch commenting at Hoopinion on Woody's (non)logic in his post-game comments
Demons to exorcise
While carpingly stating the obvious (some NBA stars thanks to foul calls), the Hawks have a bigger problem to worry about. It may be common knowledge, but the Hawks have lost 11 straight road playoff games dating back to May 2, 1997 against Detroit. That was a team basically built around Grant Hill, similar to the Heat we’ve encountered. If we can do it then, we can do it now. Josh Smith needs dunk in Beasley’s face, make him cry. Bibby and Joe need to drain some 3s. Zaza needs to spit on somebody. And we go up 2-1!
2 things
1: what does the may 1997 team have to do with our team? stats like that are useless. that was a different team, coach, owner, arena, and color scheme. They are unrelated to one another and more coincidence that (a) we haven’t been IN the playoffs in some time (b) have been underdogs in most of our series and © ran into a buzzsaw last year.
2: your name makes me hungry.
superstars vs. you
It’s one thing to root for players on other teams that are NOT playing your boys, but when push comes to shove, how can you root for your enemy? I’ve always found in every sport that regardless of a player’s likability, as the series progresses I begin despising all the big and subtle things he does. It’s how hate rivalries are made and there’s no greater thing.
Spewing sports nonsense in podcast form:
http://shortshorts.tumblr.com/
I have trouble with your theory as I do not see Wade as likeable at all. They try to market him as a tough guy who always gets up, but watching him flop around makes Divac look like a warrior. Plus I cant stop picturing him crying and being taken off the floor in wheel chair after hurting his SHOULDER. Its not related to his ability to walk. I know the injury he had and have experienced it as have others I know and not one other person I know of has reacted like him. He has to be one of the softest players in the league.
Excellent piece
… and it had to have taken a lot of guts to write this on this blog as well. I completely agree with your point, but sometimes it’s difficult, especially when there’s a vested interest in the home team. Oh, and good luck convincing the Hawks management to pay Dwyane Wade’s contract. ;-)
Wade Is Overrated
My brother and I have agreed on this for years, we both believe Wade is very much a product of NBA propaganda and marketing. Futhermore; the championship that they won went against everything that supposedly happens in the NBA. If defense wins in the playoffs how did Dallas ever end up in the Finals? So, whatever he did against Dallas gets overblown because we all know Dallas has never had a defensive mindset. Lastly, the problem in this series lies with the fact that Joe is showing that he may be overrated also. I’m starting to wonder if Joe wouldn’t be better as the 3rd best player on a team rather than the best. Joe has basically been in a slump all of 2009 with the exception of 3 of 4 home games in which he went for 30+ during one of those big homestands. IMO there overrated guy is better than our overrated guy. So, our supporting cast must when this thing. Nothing has changed that’s how it was before the ball ever got tossed up.
If you guys truly believe the drivel on this page, you are nuts.
Sure, Wade tries to draw fouls, but he shoots nearly 30% better from the foul line than the field. Isn’t that therefore an intelligent thing to accomplish?
Doesn’t Wade also get the majority of his foul shots from actual fouls? Don’t act like he’s getting 6 FTs a game that he doesn’t deserve, because that’s just not true.
Wade overrated? By who? The general public ranks the best players in the league as Kobe (who is seriously overrated), Lebron (who is accurately rated), and then Wade. If you want to argue that Chris Paul is better than Wade, I’d hear you out, but who do you guys think is better than Wade that makes him overrated? He’s an undersized shooting guard who scores a ton of points in the paint (once again, a higher % shot = intelligent), has a pretty damn good midrange game, has become a much better defender (First player 6’4 or under in NBA HISTORY with a 100 block season), has an uncanny knack for making good, quick decisions, plays well in the clutch, makes his teammates better, and most importantly, is efficient. You don’t shoot 49% because you are a great shooter, you shoot 49% because you are a consistent shooter. That number tells you that this guy comes in and plays well nearly every night.
Wade makes mistakes on the court. He turns the ball over A LOT. But the thing about his high rate is that they are almost always caused by being overaggressive (what a terrible thing…), and very rarely come from bad decision making. It goes with the territory of being somebody who puts pressure on a defense. Another thing of note is that the Miami Heat TEAM had the third fewest TOs in the league this year.
And sometimes Wade’s act even gets on my nerves. Sometimes I wanna tell him to shut up and get back on defense. Sometimes I get pissed when the refs make a bad call in his favor because I know there are idiots out there who only see that.
But you know what? I’m a long time Heat fan and Wade has been here a while and he still amazes me regularly. And I’m not just talking about the highlight dunks. I’m talking about the passes when there’s absolutely no way he could see his teammate at the speed he’s going. I’m talking about the rejections against 7 footers. I’m talking about the off balance jumpers. I’m talking about the use of his left hand. I’m talk about the anticipation on defense. He’s full of things he does on a nightly basis that are absolutely stunning.
Maybe you don’t understand how good Wade is because he has generally struggled against the Hawks. Its a pity you guys don’t watch him more often, because he’s really a unique talent that should be appreciated, not ripped by a bunch of “know-it-alls”.
And please, please, please, I hope someone replies to this saying that Wade is not at Kobe’s level. I will tear you a new anus before you can say, well, Kobe Bryant, haha.
lmao
without kobe they win silver in china & wade’s best year doesnt come close to kobe’s.
did you forget 62 in 3 quarters,remember 62-kobe mavericks 61 lol unbelieveable.
who cares about the 81 lol lets talk about 10 str8 50 points gms,wade career high is 50 lmao.stop please stop.
lmao
come on please reply, im saving my best for last lmao.
do you remember kobe’s left handed 3 pointer at the buzzer against the mavs? at the buzzer lmao
KOBE WILL WIN 4 OUT OF THE NEXT FIVE CHAMPIONSHIPS,YOU DO THE MATH
7 LMAO THERES NO MORE TALK AFTER THAT.
2ND BEST ALL TIME-KOBE
Not about Kobe
This has nothing to do with Kobe. However; Kobe is only overrated if you are comparing him to Jordan. Know way does a Jordan team lose at home in the finals up by 20pts. Other than that; Kobe is not overrated.
Wow, you guys are horrible.
You know what’s a terrible reason to say someone is the best? Stating a few games they’ve had. Sure, Kobe can have the amazing nights, but how often are they?
Listen, I have no problem whatsoever admitting that Kobe is the most skilled, technically sound athlete in the game. I just would REALLY hesitate to call him the best player in the game for a very, very simple, logical reason.
Kobe is touted as the best offensive player in the league. I agree that he can make more difficult shots than anybody else. My problem is that the object of the WHOLE FREAKING GAME is to get the ball in the basket, and Kobe only does so at career percentage of 45.5, with a career high of 46.9 in 2001-2002. I just don’t understand how somebody is so amazing at scoring, but doesn’t do so at an efficient rate.
And like I said earlier, a player’s FG% is really a measure of consistency on a nightly basis rather than how good of a shooter you are. So even with the fact that Kobe has always been below average at consistency, I’m supposed to believe he’s the best scorer in the league? Ummmm….no thanks. That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Why do so many of the other superstars in the league have a better FG% than Kobe? Lebron 49%, Wade 49%, Paul 50%, Howard 57%, Roy 48%. It’s because they are smarter players than Kobe. Kobe takes soooo many 3s, and he’s not even that good at em (career 34% shooter). WHY???
If Kobe really wants to be Jordan (which we all know he does), why doesn’t he grab one of his basketball cards, look on the back, and see that he never shot more than 300 3s in a season (only 4 seasons over 127 in career), while Kobe has broken 300 attempts 6 times (career high 518 in 05-06). Kobe has taken more than 127 attempts 12/13 seasons, the only season he didn’t was strike shortened. Jordan shot 49.7 from the field in his career, and only wasn’t higher because of two bad seasons in Washington.
And please don’t take this as me saying Nene is one of the absolute best players in the NBA. We’re talking about wing players here really, and if we’re talking about big men, we need to talk about the ones who take a good amount of shots. And if you haven’t figured it out, this is the reason why teams want dominant big men over dominant wing guys, its because they shoot a higher FG%, meaning they are more consistent, meaning that its easier to win a playoff series when your best player shows up for more than 3 or 4 games.
I hope you guys watched the Blazers/Rockets game last night,
that was basketball. There wasn’t a foul every single possession. The players weren’t trying to draw a garbage foul 5 ft outside the 3pt line. It was actual basketball, it was a wonderful sight.
lmao
wow,you must be another kobe hater,u said how often does he have a great night lmao.
when they had smush parker,brian cook,luke walton and kwame brown and took the best team in the west to 7 gms.
your argument is that he doesnt shoot 47 or 48 % and shots way more jumpers than every other player in the league and hes still a 45% shooter for his career lmao.
u said he dont drive the ball like jordan but why when his jumper is twice as good as jordan’s.
please,please come harder than that,im waiting for you to tear me a new asshole lmao
lmao
dont get me wrong jordan’s is the best ever but please dont compare wade to kobe.
its like comparing tom brady vs matt cassell, you get my drift its really ignorant and just plain stupidy to kobe a man who has being doing this for 10 yrs and wade’s just really took his game to a diff lvl.
GO HEAT GO HEAT!
Give me a break u r all mad that he is sooo damm amazing …he is worth more than your entire team put together. If D-WAde was on your team I am sure you would be screaming D-WAde is the MVP! D-Wade is a superstar just accept it.I dont compare him to anyone because he is on a level all his own. Just enjoy the series and watch his magic lololol GO HEAT
Was that a joke?
Seriously….. was it?
I believe the title of this post is, “Can you enjoy another team’s superstar in the playoffs?”… The focus is the fact that the “superstar” is on the opposing side… No one likes losing, plain and simple…
That’s why everyone in Miami will hate LeBron James if we allow (lol) you all do advance…
Joe is a Beast
Al is a Beast
Smoove is a MONSTER!
by Garrison Hayes on Apr 27, 2009 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
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