Hawks players think Mike Woodson deserves a contract extension
by hawksdawgs on Dec 7, 2009 12:38 PM EST
54 comments
You are not going to find better quotes from Hawks players than CelticsBlog look at Mike Woodson's contract extension. It gives you a peak inside Woody's coaching style. I have to admit, his gruff, unpolished way with the media, emphasis on defense, and inability to trust certain players has always overshadowed what this article shows, and that is Woody has a loose, carefree style. I guess you have be that way in order to allow a 13 win team mature into a perennial playoff team. But seriously, if you told me two years ago, that Mike Woodson would be described as a "player's coach," I would have washed your mouth out with soap.
Go read the whole post. It is really great. These insights into how Woody operates will probably give credence to whichever side of debate you fall on, but it is nice to have some quotes to back it up. One of my favorites is from Mike Bibby.
I love him and I’ve had a lot of coaches in my time. For some coaches I say I like, and got along with, and some coaches I didn’t. You know, I mean I love Coach Woodson. He’s relaxed. He has fun. I think that’s what you got to do.
I love coming to work here and…I can talk to him. I can give him my input on the team and stuff like that and not a lot of coaches let you do that.
I don’t think, right now, I could be in a better situation and actually that’s another reason why I came here, came back here.
Just how… being comfortable with the coaching staff and my teammates.
How do you rate him with all the other coaches you played for?
Definitely one of the top. I’ve had a couple…I’ve had Lionel Hollins, umm….Rick Adelman and Coach Woodson’s right up there with those two, too.
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That was a really good read
I can’t bring myself to register for the Celtics forum though… Anyway, maybe we fans are too hard on Woody, but the fact still remains that he’s only had one winning season. Improvement is great, and it is what has kept him employed thus far, but I don’t think Rick Sund is asking too much of him to prove that he can sustain it.
Woodson's ability to change his style is impressive.
I’ve been thinking about this after Mangino just got fired after rebuilding Kansas’ program.
Kansas was horrible before he got there. He came in like a drill sergeant and instilled discipline into the program and the program completely turned around. The same was definitely necessary for the Hawks when Woodson came.
Mangino wasn’t able to make the switch to players coach once his program turned around, and that’s why he’s fired. Woodson probably would have been fired too a couple years ago, but we fans weren’t able to see that Woodson’s coaching style was transitioning as the team improved.
here is the thing
so Mike Woodson finishes out his contract at the end of the year. would another team try and sign him?
i have always said no way. no how. but if the hawks win mid 50s, I have to change my tune right. someone would give him a look. I certainly would not be 100% anymore.
I don't know how a rebuilding team wouldn't want him right now.
I know everyone dismisses the fact that his record has improved every year because of the talent the Hawks have had, and their natural development. But there is not doubt that Woodson has/is succeeding in changing the culture around the Hawks. A team like the Grizzlies, T-Wolves, or Clippers could definitely use a make over like the Hawks have had.
Hawksdawgs thats a huge insult to Woody.
Before this season did you really think there were 29 better head coaches and or candidates in the NBA? I could name at least 10 to 15 coaches that if I were a GM I would not hire before Woody.
Also
This "But seriously, if you told me two years ago, that Mike Woodson would be described as a “player’s coach,” I would have washed your mouth out with soap."
literally made me laugh out loud.
Joe, Joe...
JJ’s response to whether Woodson’s presence would impact his own contract situation was downright HILARIOUS. At this point I just want to know what would make a difference to Joe…the guy is beginning to look horrifically materialistic. Even LeBron gets that there’s only so much money that can matter versus being in the right situation.
it certainly looks like he is going highest bidder
good news for the Hawks.
1. the economy.
2. the salary cap.
3. the Hawks can offer the most.
i am on record as saying reason number 3 is not good news if it need be made a reality. still could scare other teams off. if other teams know he is a mercenary of sorts, the Hawks ability to out offer any team could work like a mini restricted free agency.
of course, that is a perfectly rational thought that is entirely hypothetical wishful thinking.
After further consideration
Would the players say anything else right now? Fellas, it’s just like if your girlfriend walks in and says “Do these jeans make me look fat”? Um, even if she’s gained 30lbs since last summer, your response is going to be some variation of “no”. I expect them to say that. Now on the subject of whether or not we fans are too hard on Woodson, I say no. WE watch this team game after game. I might be going out on a limb, but I doubt the guy who wrote this wonderful article watches the Hawks as much as we do. None of us denies the improvement the team has made, but I still feel like there are many nights where they win in spite of him. That may be a little unfair, but that’s how I see it. He, just like Joe has every opportunity to prove his worth to this team this season. There are some things he needs to work on. He needs to address his disdain towards rookies, his inability to make adjustments, his inability to control Joe when he’s clearly having a bad game.- His unwillingness to sit Joe when he’s struggling, his allowing the guards to treat Al and Josh like they’re nothing more than dirty work players on many nights. I could go on, but I’ve got work to do. Those are just basic things that you don’t notice if you only watch the Hawks pull off a gritty win every now and again. The Hawks (even prior to Sund) have made everyone else prove they deserve whatever they’re asking for. They did it with Marv, Josh, Josh Chills(they didn’t agree with his number) Bibby, Za Za. They’ve literally taken the wait and see approach with everyone (except Joe, they made him an offer). Woody is no different. I was worried about how the players would react to a lame duck coach, so far they’ve been model citizens. 20 games in, I can’t really argue with Sund wanting to see the end result.
THIS...
comparing him to Lionel Hollins? Huh?
And they do still play for the man, so unless things get abysmal, I expect these comments. For our man hawkdawgs, what were Georgia kids saying about Dennis Felton 12 months ago? Now look at the comments for the past several months.
It just goes to show we have classy guys on the team.
Bibby and Josh have to by lying, but don’t want to be jerks or disrupt team chemistry this season.
by coachkcastellon on Dec 7, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
It's true that it's in their best interests to give him props
But they don’t have to fawn over him. And really what is Woodson gonna do? Not play Bibby? Players have always had more power in the NBA than coaches, this is no different.
But I totally agree that it’s completely reasonable for Sund to want Woodson to prove himself. Most GMs would have fired the coach when he came in just because they wanted their own guy in there. Woodson is very fortunate to still be the coach of this team with all the turmoil that his bosses have had.
LMBO
That’s just like upper managment asking me what kind of job my boss is doing with her standing in the room with us. However he does seem quite sincere. When they followed the team on NBATV, they were very playful. Bibby was throwing paper at Woody doing his interview. It was quite entertaining. Since Bibby has free reign to go to Woody about problems, why hasn’t he felt the need to tell him how utterly ridiculous it is for them to ALWAYS switch on defense. Bibby switching to matchup with Dirk was a nightmare. It was like Groundhog’s Day….over and over and over again. Unbelievable.
Actually the switching defense makes sense.....
if the other team does not or can not take advantage. So far so good. Dirk scored almost half of the Mavs points while every other Mav player was horrible. And that was a good thing for the Hawks And if memory serves me correctly that same defensive switching was the main reason for the victory in Boston as Rondo primarily didn’t take advantage of the switches.
I don't hate the switching defense, but EVERY SINGLE TIME is too much. All I ask is for Woody to make adjustments as necessary.
by dstdeelite on Dec 7, 2009 9:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes
Bibby/Jamal on Dirk made me laugh and cry all at the same time! I’m not saying they aren’t genuine, but if they are, I’m even more worried about the team, because no one recognizes their flaws!!!!!!!!!!! There’s not one damn person on the team who can see what they’re doing wrong during a game and actually bother to do something about it. That’s a bit unsettling.
Hey guys.
Interesting to read all of your comments. I’m the guy who wrote the piece.
Just a few thoughts….
1) the idea that – of course they would all say great things about the coach they currently play for……
I thought about that. In truth, they didn’t have to be so emphatic about it. Players can and will give more tepid answers when they aren’t enamored of their coach. You sometimes have to read between the lines on their answers. The only really somewhat reluctant response was J-Smooves and even the way he answered was interesting.
Here is a part of his quote that I didn’t use in the article….
I’ve read that there are two stories with your own problems with your coach.. 1) that there are problems and or 2) that its’ been overblown.
So coming right from you… which is it?
It’s been over blown. It’s been over blown. We have a good relationship and he wishes the best for me just like I wish the best for him.
So if he got another contract for next year, you would be happy with that?
I don’t believe in having people get money taken away from them and their families so I mean I’ll be just as happy as he would if he could get another contract.
No player and coach’s relationship are ever perfect. Would you say that over the years, he has helped you become a better player?
I mean all the coaches have helped me become a better player. You know, I was young. I came into the game at 18, very inexperienced and I’m in my 6th year and I’m 23 years old. And I have a different, a better outlook than what I did when I was 18.
2) Why I did the piece…
I’ll do any article that is interesting. As the piece explains (and everyone here knows) this is an interesting situation – not unlike Doc Rivers’ when he coached his previous contract’s final year without an agreement.
The players opened up with some good stuff, so I went with a longer piece. They said a few things I’d never seen in print before. It deserved the space and effort, IMO.
3) Atlanta has an interesting and up coming team. I like a number of aspects about the Hawks. I hope you all go to games and support them – except when the Celtics come to town!
An aside…many poo-pooed the signing of Crawford around the boards. I felt was a solid pick up for the bench for you. Seems to be true so far.
If the players on this team wanted Woodson gone, the meltdown would be occurring as we speak. It would be that easy. We have all seen it before – some would even say this season with Byron Scott.
Be well all.
T
That's an excellent point.
If the players really didn’t like what Woodson was doing they’d have left or quit by now.
Thanks for a great post!!!
Thank you so much for clarifying that for us.
Now can you tell us about Joe? Do you get the feeling he’s going or staying? This may be an unfair question being that he rarely displays an emotion. Just wanted your opinion.
by dstdeelite on Dec 7, 2009 10:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Most likely...
Joe will test the waters.
I was surprised that he even said “maybe” when I asked if Woodson getting re-signed would influence his decision.
The big thing that might stop him from looking for other scenarios (in my humble opinion) is getting to the Finals.
I don’t know how money driven JJ will be and how much Atlanta ownership will do to keep and improve this team.
This summer will interesting for a whole lot of teams and players.
I just don't get the guy.
He’s going to test the waters to find a better team? And still be the number 1 guy? How does that square?
Unless, as I suspect, he really just wants the moolah. ‘Cause I can’t see Joe being happy with second fiddle.
What's to get?
If the Bulls offered you 75million, and the Hawks only offered you 60, can you honestly say you would say no to an extra 15 million dollars?
Or even if the Bulls offered the same amount as the Hawks,
I would expect JJ to take Chicago’s offer. Chicago is a bigger and better market compared to Atlanta in the NBA landscape. Plus the fans in Atlanta don’t even compare the fans in Chicago( home attendance leaders or top 3 the last time I checked) and in JJ’s mind of thinking, a JJ led Chicago Bulls is better team than a J-Smoove led hawks team minus JJ. I won’t give JJ a hard time (or any free agent for that matter) for testing the free agent waters if they are not getting a max contract. But if I was Sund I would see what’s out there to see if an offer could be had at the trading deadline. I’m not sure if Chicago would need a sign and trade to offer JJ the max this summer.
i disagree
i dont think a player would want a change of scenery with the same amount of money, on a team that isn’t as good.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
That was my point with Childress
For some reason people didn’t understand that money means much more than they think it does to these players.
"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC
Speaking of Chill
if JJ walks, I think Bibby, Crawford, Marvin, Smoove, Horford, Teague, Chill, Zaza makes for a nice 8 man rotation.
My pleasure.
I understand that there are certainly different POVs, even from the local beat writers here.
More thoughts, the merrier.
Kudos
to Hawksdawgs for bringing this to us. It is a BIG SHAME that we have to go to other team websites to get any evidence on how good our coach is doing. FYI this is not the first article that gives kudos to our coach. I have seen numerous positive articles on other team websites about our coach especially on night that the other team loses.
Why are other writers more positive about our team and coach than we are ?
Is it because we are in the trees and do not see the forest??
Well perhaps you, dkrib.
Go ahead and find these other writers.
One for you rbubp
Looks like Woody is getting the credit he deserves around the league
Or because we actually watch him...
on a nightly basis and have a more intimate, detailed understanding of what he brings. It’s an old question I’ve pondered before.
Because they don’t watch close to every minute of every game. Therefore they don’t see that the Hawks could have won, say, 52 or more games last year instead of 47 with better coaching. Or that they could have beaten Miami in 5 games rather than 7 with better coaching. Or they could have won at least one game versus the Cavs with better coaching. Or that they could win 58 or more games this year and make it to the Eastern Finals instead of the 50 or so they will win and lose in the second around again with better coaching. The problems with Woody’s coaching (the foul out paranoia, the failure to develop young players, the iso dependent offense, the switch always defense, allowing Josh Smith to take too many jump shots, not using Horford or Marvin enough in the offense) are subtle and are only visible to those of us who watch the Hawks intensely.
So basically, You have very specific problems with the things Woodson does, and that outweighs the overall results of his time here?
Isn’t that pretty much a different way of saying your judging the individual trees instead of the forest as a whole?
No
It means that we could have been a better team sooner. It means that while Woodson has turned things around over the last five years, that he still has problems. Just because we are on track this season to potentially have the most wins in almost two decades doesn’t mean that Woodson is infallible or beyond reproach and shouldn’t be subject to criticism.
The problem with the outside opinion that Woodson must be doing spectacular and the arguments made by Woodson apologists such as Dkrib is that all they look at is the win column and see that over the last five years the Hawks have increased that number each year. All they think is that because the Hawks finally made it into the playoffs, finally had back-to-back playoff appearances, and look like a completely different team this year, that all the bad coaching that came with that should simply be forgotten as if there was never a problem to begin with.
The difference between most of us here and the rest is that while we point out the negatives, we also point out the positives of Coach Woodson, yet Dkrib and yourself refuse to even acknowledge that Woodson has faults. I’ve noted in game threads how awesome a job I thought Woodson has been doing this year and that if it continued then I would have no problem giving him an extension. While there are still games where he reverts to his bad habits, this is the first year that he’s shown actual signs of improvement and I’m more than willing to give him credit. I’ve yet to see you or Dkrib acknowledge Woodson making a bad decision, instead pointing to everything else you can that isn’t named Woodson.
"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC
I've said plenty of times that I don'y even think Woodson is thst great of a cosch
I think he’s interchangeable with 80% of the coaches out there. I’m just put in the position of Devil’s advocate because everyone can’t stop directing all the frustration from everything that they want the Hawks to be at Woodson. I’m just enjoying the fact that we have a good basketball team, and while I don’t think all the credit should go to Woodson, I’ve yet to hear a great argument for way he’s a bad coach.
I have never heard you say anything positive about the man. So please, what do you think his positives are?
Are you kdding me redwards95 ?
Do they see that the Hawks are 4million under the cap competing with teams like Orlando, Boston and Cleveland that are 14million over the cap( Heck that difference can get you an all star player).Do they see that the Hawks are among the best teams this season in offensive efficiency despite all the so called iso dependent offense? Do they see that every season for the last 3 years, the Hawks total wins have exceeded the analyst prediction prior to the start of the season?
Do they see that the Hawks low post scoring has increased in line with the improvements made by the players in the off season? Maybe I am missing something…Do you need to watch every minute of the Miami Heat games to know if the coach is good or if Dwayne Wade is good? Cant stats tell you some of the information you need?
Clearly you aren't watching the games
The Hawks do not have a high offensive officiency because they are running the ISO exclusively, they are efficient because we are moving the ball more and scoring through our front court more than in any other year with Woodson at the helm. Thank you for proving my (and others) point. The games we have lost have, compared to the ones we have won, much more ISO offense and a complete lack of low post scoring or ball movement. I’m baffled that you have yet to pick up on it because it has been discussed on more than just this site.
And speaking of low post scoring, you just gave credit to the players for making their own improvement during the offseason, which is exactly what most of us have credited each year as the win totals increased. I’m glad to see ou come over to the side of reason, but I have a sinking suspicion that it won’t be for long.
I’m sorry, but where a talking head predicts my team before the season starts get absolutely zero credibility with me and I’m doubtful it will gain you any with anyone else. The fact that you have brought that up so many times is indiciative of your inability to do any thinking of your own.
And what does the Miami Heat or Dwayne Wade have to do with anything? Their coach is not good, he’s young and he’s getting a load of talent through the draft and he has Dwayne Wade, who was more than good before the coach arrived. He makes plenty of mistakes, but again, he is very young (and not just meaning age) so it’s very likely that so long as his young talent continues to improve themselves and he learns from his mistakes that he potentially will replicate the job Woodson did his first three to four years in Atlanta. Of course, Spoelstra’s first few years will probably look closer to our seasons from last year and the year before because he is starting with a much more talented baseline than Woodson did.
"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC
Regarding your analysis of the reasons for our increased offensive effeciency
Where that falls apart with regards to blaming Woodson for not having his team play that way sooner is that you assume that our frontcourt was ready and able to play up to their increased roles. Like it’s as simple as Woodson waking up one day and saying, “you know what? maybe we should feed Al in the post! And I’ll tell Josh to stop shooting threes!”
The things that the players did on the court were symptoms, not the illness. It took time and persistence to treat them.
On the Al Horford front, yeah it really would have been that easy. Everyone was calling for it last year. Also we are getting away from that a little bit as the PPG of our front court has been in decline. I blame this on Woody and it has been extremely evident in the games where we are blown out. These are the games where we take jump shots and they may or may not fall at the beginning, but we continue to take them and go ice cold. However, we don’t adjust, we just take more jumpers.
As for Smoove, not so much. Although maybe it would have come about sooner if they had developed a better relationship.
great update hawksdawg
And perfect update from T. I love reading about the hawks and appreciation but I’m wishy washy on woody. He is great on any given night but on some nights you wonder what he says to them in the locker room or during a timeout. But he has been very good this year and focused on wins and his team. I’m behind him for gettin an extension. as for jj, I believe he will test the waters but when you look around the league we are the new up and coming team and still need him. He may be testing the front office……
by Hawksgirl on Dec 9, 2009 10:46 AM EST via mobile reply actions
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