Cavaliers 106, Hawks 101, or We've seen this show before
by Bronn on Dec 30, 2009 10:23 PM EST
Email
PrintWhile last night emotionally resembled the Thanksgiving game against Orlando, tonight's game bears an even stronger resemblence. Hawks outplayed Cleveland in the first half of this game, clearly, carrying a 12 point lead into half-time. The artist formerly known as Joe Freakin' Johnson was on full display early, scoring 16 in the first half on 8 shots before picking up his third foul. But LeBron went nuts in this game (aided, perhaps, by a quick whistle, scoring 48 points on 23 shots and 16 free throws.
That 12 point lead at the half wasn't enough to sustain another really poor scoring effort from the Hawks in the second half, as they scored only 36 points. How a team can be such an offensive force for the first half of basketball games and then a trainwreck in the second half is close to shameful. The reason is clear to disagnose-Hawks get predictable late in the game, if the score is at all close. After weathering a 10-0 run by Cleveland to take an 8 point lead into the fourth quarter, I assumed the Hawks were in the clear, but the ISO-Joe monster reared its ugly head again, and the Hawks were held scoreless for the first 2:52 of the fourth quarter.
The great defense of Marvin Williams was absent-he played well off of LeBron, daring him to take jumpshots, and LeBron did, making 6 of 9 shots from outside of the paint. Of course, this doesn't entirely explain the absence of Marvin Williams during the final 7 minutes of the game. During the stretch run, the Cavaliers' best scorer was facing a tandem of Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, and Josh Smith attempting to guard him, all of which are good match-ups for him. Meanwhile, Jamal Crawford followed up a terrific night in Atlanta by being nearly useless: 11 points on 12 shot attempts, and a really sub-par defensive effort. Of course, he did come up with 5 rebounds, so he deserves a bit of credit there.
Overall, JJ did play a great game. He scored 35 points on 25 shots. But only three assists while he was touching the ball every possession creates some bad situations late: on a really late possesion, Josh Smith catches the ball with 5 seconds left on the shot clock 20 feet from the basket. Not shy, he of course bricked the jumper. And Bibby was forced into rushing a few jumpshots as a result of passes that weren't quite timely-most specifically the last one in the game that bounced harmlessly off to be rebounded by Jamario Moon.
Josh Smith continues to frustrate-after foul trouble kept him on the bench during some key stretches last night, he was very unever in his performance tonight in Cleveland. He got an early block on LeBron, but continued to take high-degree of difficulty shots, resulting in a 4-11 night, and a technical foul. With Josh, it's not that he's overly confrontational or foul-mouthed; the officials allow him 20-30 seconds in which to complain about calls, and he's still moaning about it two minutes later, which is when he draws the whistle. Bibby also gave away a point for a technical foul while the Hawks were leading, which makes one wonder just why this team is so allergic to success. Those two points ended up being huge in a game that came down to one possession.
Overall, this game was much more encouraging than the disaster that was last night-it took Varejao's first ever 3 pointer with 2 seconds on the shot clock to give Cleveland the lead with 17 seconds left. But the story was the same-the resulting Joe Johnson isolation play didn't go anywhere, and Bibby was asked to bail him out. That seems to be Bibby's role on offense as much as anything else-bailing out poor offensive possessions by knocking down jumpshots.
Loser Dots:
- While I feel, unlike several of you, that last night's game was well officiated, I cannot say the same for tonight's affair. Marvin Williams in particular was on the wrong side of the whistle on both sides of the ball. Josh Smith was in a bad way as well, though his incessant complaining makes me wonder how he ever gets any calls at all.
- Jason Collins played several useful first half minutes tonight. I never thought that he and Joe Smith would give useful, meaningful minutes together, but it worked out well early when Horford and Josh Smith were resting.
- Another DNP: CD for Teague. Considering that the Hawks delved deeper into their bench tonight, and the poor shooting effort by Crawford, I'm beginning to see that same old trend emerging from Woody.
- Speaking of Joe Smith two dots ago, he grabbed 4 rebounds in under 7 minutes of playing time. Would have been nice to have him later, while the Hawks were getting killed by Varejao on the boards late.
- LeBron James is just really tough to stop when he's knocking down jumpshots.
- The same is not necessarily true about Joe Johnson, who attempted only two free throws.
- I still can't get over Marvin Williams sitting for so long down the stretch while Jamal Crawford was in.
- Hawks end the year 21-10...the exact same record as last season at this point. Remember that poll about how many end of year wins were needed for this team to earn an A?
Try to have a happy New Year, be safe. I, for one, expect I'll drink enough to get over this game.
110 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Very clever....
…no mention of what might be the biggest story to come out of the game (beyond the 48 points from LBJ that ESPN will no doubt create a status for in Bristol.)
The call was reviewed, zoomed in, and the two point play was actually reversed. By a millimeter, it was a 3. An absolute killer for confidence, though.
yeah, and with only 17 seconds to go in the game
..and it was just the biggest piece of lucky trash—for a guy who gets nothing but lucky trash shots.
a nice drink....
sounds good. This was another winnable game (that might be replayed if the rules apply) and we didn’t make the plays we should have. I’m not discouraged because the hawks played two tough games well enough to win. In a few days we will ring in the near year and 51 more games to go until playoff time. The hawks will learn and the hawks will win. I believe the more the hawks stay focused of themselves instead of the other team and refs, they will be just fine. The sky’s the limit
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
I just wonder
when in holy hell Woodrow T. Woodson is going to learn about this whole take-your-team out of its rhythm thing in the 4th quarter of close games. Can we get Jerry Jones in here to say something about it? You know, like he mentions that Felix Jones or some other Cowboy ought to be used a certain way, maybe we can hire Jerrah to publicly own the Hawks for a few days and mention that he thinks the Hawks should continue their offense through a whole goddamn game?
Further...
I missed in the loser dots how good LeBron is when he is allowed to use his shoulder to run people over and get a foul called on THEM. Which was just about every time he drive the ball tonight. Just sickening. I will always hate Dwyane Wade more because he a is flopper as big as a shamu whale, but I am beginning to hate LeBron almost as much for this shameful and pathetic babying from the referees.
Those of you who did not have to listen to the Cavs’ TV announcers call that game got let out of even more frustration. if I could have reached through my computer and punched Austin Carr I surely would have.
Can I say now that I hate the Cavs in a way I never did before??
my position on Lebron getting all of these foul calls is simple and true. If you separate that shoulder when he charges at with you he won’t do it anymore, but if you keep getting barreled over by it and waiting for the refs then what does he care.
Knock him down until he learns to change his ways or continue to get man handled by him.
Austin Carr
As a cavs fan all i can say is ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh
The man. is. awful.
Better to watch the game on mute
Like I told these guys last night I listen to Joe when it’s on FSO…he tells it like it is
by cavslandrocks on Dec 31, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
This recap in no way depicts what REALLY happened in this game...IMO
I quit reading after the first few paragraphs. Maybe I can stomach reality tomorrow.
Nothing against you Bronn
But tonight we NEED a hawksdawg recap. We need to hear about this from a Hawks fan perspective. Eff all the politically correct analysis. Leave that to the AP writers. I want some bonafide homerism from Drew.
by Co Co on Dec 30, 2009 11:14 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Say it, CoCo
we need some balm for the hurt.
F*** the Cavs!!
Lol
I feel ya.
This was a poorly officiated game, but the Hawks lost this game more than they had it stolen from them. LeBron rushing in like a bull in a china shop is not a new development-that’s one thing I DO remember from the playoff series. Yes, the officiating was bad, but the game was played in Cleveland, so aside from one clock malfunction, it’s not much worse than I expected.
What bugs me about this game is that LeBron was going nuts in the first half, and the officials were making bad calls, and the Hawks still led by 12. I can’t say the second half was called any worse than the first, or that LeBron was getting away with more stuff.
And I purposely left out the clock malfunction because we all know very well that it happened. Nothing the Hawks could do about it.
Well, respectfully, i think they were worse in the second half.
And the Hawks and their 4th quarter yet-again meltdown cannot be excused, but the free throw imbalance was more pronounced in the second half and as the intensity increased the calls got more obviously lopsided.
And the clock thing was absolutely inexcusable and actually did do a fair amount toward costing the hawks the game—don;t forget that the rushed play attempt resulted in a fast break for them that turned into a rebound basket by Sideshow Bob to give them the lead. It was kinda big.
Hopefully
The Hawks can channel their frustration into some kind of a run in January. This team has really been depressing me over the past two weeks. Bad loss in Denver, at Chicago, and at home. And then letting this one get away from them tonight.
Bronn
I appreciate you keeping our heads up.
I am personally disgusted by how this game turned out but nothing is going to change the fact that the Hawks lost a close game or that lebron is a clown (literally…see above photo). I really hope the Hawks use this as motivation and go on a tear the next 10 games. Thats all they can do right now. I am proud of the way they played this game.
Time is on their side
That clock “malfunction” really did matter. Instead of being up 1 and burning clock, we were up 1 and rushing (and ending up losing the ball). This, and the awful, awful calls cost us the game. Yeah, if we hit every shot we take we win. Yeah, if not for a garbage 3 we win. But it’s a lot to ask us to beat the Cavs AND the refs AND the clock-manager. The Cavs are a pretty good team on their own. I say we let both teams play a straight up game. Tonight felt like playing poker with a rigged deck.
Then why didnt your coach call a time out and complained about the shot clock, instead they waited and only complained once the following plays didnt work out for them, they tried to have it both ways. If they stopped the game as soon as it happened the clock would have been changed.
by CavsLebronFan on Dec 31, 2009 2:52 AM EST up reply actions
you're wrong buddy
when the clock malfunctions it is the refs, scorekeepers and clock workers fault. Don’t put this on the Hawks and expect them to call a timeout. Why didn’t the Cavs call a timeout, they knew they were cheating.
So don’t put it on the Hawks and don’t put it on Mike Woodson. They are not responsible for messing with the shot clock as your last attempt to cheat and win the game. Its the officiating that is in the wrong, not the players or coaches. The shot clock is not their responsibility.
and your double wrong buddy
Actually the Hawks weren’t trying to have it both ways the Cavs were.
Because if the Hawks call timeout, now they have to burn a timeout because of the clock malfunction. So that is unfair because they lose a timeout for no reason.
The Cavs had it both ways and it was 100% premediated. Why didn’t the Cavs have a problem with the shot clock, why was it the Hawks? Because the people who are in charge of the game are all in agreement that when they can fake calls and get away with it they will.
So mess with the shot clock. If the Hawks score it will be in 14 seconds, not 24. If the Hawks call timeout, they will burn one for no reason. If they try and score and miss, they will get screwed both ways.
The Cavs should have called the timeout to fix the clock. Mike Brown should have called the timeout. It is their arena and their homecourt, and they all knew they were cheating.
I’m not biased when it comes to all these conspiracy theories. When other cavs fans say their is a conspiracy against us in any game i don’t believe it and it goes the same way when people think we’re the ones involved in it.
You really think the NBA pulls strings to get us wins? When we made it to the finals in 2007 it was the least watched Finals series in history because two small town teams were involved. That means less profits for the NBA, If they really pulled strings it would be to make a Boston-LA series every year.
Having said that, hawks fans that say you guys got bad calls against you, i do agree with that. The referee’s in this game were not great, but that doesn’t mean there is a conspiracy to steal a win from you. It just means they made a number of mistakes because they are human and a majority of those turned out to not be favorable for your team, and because they’re human you never know how much the home crowd affects those 50/50 calls. But it still doesn’t mean there is a widespread conspiracy that includes the NBA head office, the referees, the time keeper guys and everyone else involved. And to throw around the word “cheat” isn’t fair in my opinion.
It’s called bad luck. Everyone gets their fair share of it eventually.
by CavsLebronFan on Dec 31, 2009 5:18 AM EST up reply actions
Nope
There’s no real conspiracy. It’s just pretty well known that there are “rules” and then there are “Lebron rules.” Again, I’m not saying the refs were TRYING to give the game to the Cavs, but the huge disparity of free throws when our players spent so much time in the paint speaks for itself. Lebron can lower his shoulders and clearly charge a player. He can stomp around and moan about calls forever without fear of a T. Meanwhile, Josh Smith practically has to lose a limb to get a call in his favor. Things like this tarnish the game. We all remember the Jordan push. I can think of about 5 plays (last night) which make that look like nothing. I was watching with Cavs fans, and they’ve coined a phrase I’d like to introduce: "Lebrules. " Short shot clock? Lebrules. Lebron out of control in the lane and somehow getting a call? Hey, that’s just Lebrules. These are two good teams and I’d like to see them play straight up. No Lebrules; just THE rules.
Anyone who doesn't believe there is a separate set of rules for Kobe, LeBron,
DWade, et. al., CP3 just doesn’t have eyes. Last night was a fine, fine example of that. Tine and again LeBron lowers his shoulder and knocks people out of the way and gets the foul called on the other team rather than himself, and of course on the other end the visitors cannot so much as sniff initiating contact without a call of them. Marvin Williams and Josh Smith were victimized with this crap several times. And if you cannot at least admit that these stars get a boost from the refs than you just haven’t watched any games in the last 10 years (particularly the 2006 finals).
This is just weak sauce, Cleveland fans. Weak.
Huh?
Why should we have to burn a time out because the clock manager can’t or won’t do his job? BTW Woody did call a time out to point out the clock “malfunction” when he realized what happened. And, you guessed it, nothing was done about it. No extra time. No replaying the play. Nothing.
Paging David Stern
Surely the end of this game will have to be replayed since the Hawks had to redo the end of that Miami game which wasn’t anywhere near as close. Hopefully there will be a different officiating crew too — one that actually calls blatant fouls by the Cavs in the paint.
Touhger Loss to take
Hmmm that recap does not really get into the meat of what happened in the game. It is putting burden on the Hawks by looking at the end score, and unfortunately that is just a result of what all transpired.
Clearly on Tue, Cleveland won the game and was the better team on the court. On Wed night, ATL was the better team and should have won the game. Yes the clock malfunction occurred(operator error very convinent!!!), but also taking 2 points away from Marvin on his drive was a joke(reminds me of JC not getting his 2 points on Tue night). LeBron putting his shoulder into Josh and doing his NFL thing was a joke. Now i understand LeBron is a gift to basketball, and we need to have him on the court so that NBA ratings and fans get their money’s worth. But that is going over the line. Also, I love the king, but his showboating even if in fun at the beginning of the games (same as last year’s playoffs) seem childish and almost putting his opponent down. May be I am an old timer, but i never saw Magic, Bird, Jordan, Barkeley, Kareem, … do stuff like that. I never see Kobe or Shaq do that. Grow up young man, you are a great player, act it.
This was an excellent game by the Hawks. No reason to hang our heads down. To fault Hawks for a game that they gave everything they had, is not being realistic. Not many teams can go into that environment, and win that game. The story is the calls, but it happens in NBA when you go against a team with a legend in making. He has earned it, and we move on. Go Hawks
Glad
to see ESPN sticking up for us (http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-091230/daily-dime). Chris Sheridan expresses his shock and chagrin over the refs/clock-keepers miserable botching of this game. Unfortunately, now the star-crazed midget czar, Stern, will promptly deny our appeal, due to our status as persona non grata in the NBA. Sucks not having a Lebron/Kobe/Wade on your team!
I'm with you dchawk
I think the best quote from that article is "What matters is the “L” — and the fact that the Hawks didn’t have a fair chance to come away with a “W” in what they themselves described as a two-day litmus test of their strength in playing the Cavs on back-to-back nights."
Yep, that pretty much sums it up. All we want is a fair shot. If the Cavs beat us like a rented mule (like they did last year), so be it. Let’s just play the game on a semi-level playing field, shall we? It’s fine if Lebron gets the super star treatment. But this one was just ridiculous.
Defensive laps
As a Hawks fan its great too talk about “fair chances” and someone getting preferential treatment but the Hawks have got to explain why their defense gave up a 17 point lead in the third quarter, then pushed it out to 8-10 again but the Cavs erased all those leads quickly with their defense. The proof is their 37 points in the second half. If the Hawks want to take the next step they have got to learn how to play lock down “D” like the cavs and stop complaining.
Sure
We lapse on D, we seem to stink it up in the 4th; there’s plenty wrong on our end. The problem is that the real story is the clock and the refs. It’s not just overshadowing our problems, it’s overshadowing the fact that Lebron really did have a great game. And this is what worries me: Jordan didn’t start getting calls like Lebron until he was truly legit (rings, etc.). I worry that Lebron, and the players who come after him are going to have their legacy tarnished by the fact that the refs are deciding the outcome of games with poor officiating. In 20 years will people be talking about Lebron’s great play, or how the refs helped him out? It’s a real concern.
Or could it be....?
sheridan was not invited to lebron’s birthday and he was fuming. he didn’t realize that the party is off limits for idiots.
So I told her," I'll be nicer if you try to be smarter!'..That was a mistake.
Austin Carr
Love Austin Carr. “Throw the hammuh down!” “From Deeeep in the Q!” and my all-time favorite “Get that weak stuff outta here!!”…. Its so bad its awesome and he says each one about 6 times which is even greater…..
hmmm i guess that is a reference to some Cav announcer
FYI, this is the Hawks forum, and we have no idea what you are talking about and your local announcer. If the point is the rough stuff is ok in NBA, it really is not, may i remind you why Cavs have not done well come playoff time. It may be ok in Ohio, where Big 10 plays, but may i also remind you what happens to Big 10 basketball come NCAA time. They lose because they play too physical and they get the calls go against them. As for football and Ohio state style of play, well let’s just not go there with the obvious, as this is an NBA board, but again, please stay to stuff related to game, and not localized Ohio stuff which is irrelevant to results of a game that at best are suspicious.
Austin Carr is a punk who has no respect for the other team.
He never has seen a foul on his team, but he sees many on the other team. Also, the the other team is just a bunch of goofballs who don’t know what they’re doing.
Can’t say if he’s like this every night, but his repeated derogatory comments about the Hawks have helped me become a Cavs hater. That guy is an arrogant jerk. Well, he played at Notre Dame, so I guess that comes with the territory…
Austin Carr is an idiot. I cant stand announcers who try to come up with ‘signature’ lines which aren’t cool or funny and then use them over 9,000 times a game. It’s annoying.
If the same game is on tnt or espn I happily turn to that when watching the cavs. I would listen to the radio instead all the time…but the delay screws it up.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 31, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
but then again…jeff van gundy sucks too…Half the time the other commentator can’t figure out what the hell he’s saying. He spent about 10 minutes of the Cavs/Lakers game talking about how he imagines ‘Mo Williams’ golf game to be…then finally gave up when the other announcer basically told him there’s really no point or relevance in anything he’s saying.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 31, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Now i understand
Thanks rbubp, now i understand. it hurts this morning to get some of the comments f rom Cavs fans with no objectivity. My objective part tells me Cavs are probably still slightly better than us, and leBron is indeed a player for all times. On the other hand, can’t help but feel the calls last night made it such that a game that was ours was stolen from us. That is ok, i understand the rules of the game and superstars. We are still learning and a very young team
Cleveland Perspective
Hi, everyone:
Cavs fan here, was curious to see how the other side felt about last night’s game and really, the two-game series.
First, as a Cleveland fan (all teams) it’s not a stretch for me to feel cheated by officiating, because it’s happened to our teams time and time again. If I were a Hawks fan, I would be absolutely livid over what happened. It’s beyond me how such an oversight could be made at the highest level of basketball in the world, particularly in crunch time of a meaningful game. In short, it’s disgraceful.
That being said, I’m not sure I buy the argument that it rushed ATL’s next possession. They didn’t rush the ball up the floor, Bibby dribbled the ball in place for several seconds, and Josh Smith didn’t look like he was in a hurry either. Frankly, why should they have been in a hurry, they should have thought they had a full 24 seconds. I just don’t think it affected that play any. I will say this: Mike Woodson is not, absolutely not, responsible for calling a time out in that situation to review it. As someone else pointed out, why should he burn one of their timeouts to do so, and even more, why should such an egregious shot clock error be in the back of his mind? No one’s selling me that it’s his responsibility.
So, while I don’t think it affected the game play, if the Hawks protest and the NBA demands the last two minutes be replayed, you know what? OK, if that’s their determination, I accept it.
As far as the LeBron rules go: Yes, he does receive many calls, but he is extremely aggressive attacking the basket, and I always think the referees favor the players who do that. I have seen him been called for traveling and charging at the end of tight games, both in the regular season and the playoffs. Last year he was called for a very touch foul on Danny Granger on a lob play with less than a second to play and it cost them the game. Why do I bring that up? Because it shows that they will call fouls on him late in the game against another small market team (I’m sure no one would make the argument that the NBA slants toward the Indiana Pacers). Additionally, two or three times per game he will get whacked in the head driving to the basket without a call. I’m not talking about touch fouls either, I’m talking forearms and eye pokes. If you don’t believe this, I challenge you to watch the Cavs play against teams that aren’t yours. He gets his share of calls yes, but Michael Jordan superstar level? No, not even close.
All that said, the Hawks are closing the gap on the top three.
Maybe you should watch what Bibby does on that play.
And then get over yourself.
You Cleveland fans….man. You come onto the Hawks boards after a game like that and try to tell us how wrong we are. Where do you people get off? Seriously…Are you all just stupid? Who does this? Step the F off!
Grouchy this morning?
yeah….it sucks to lose but the Hawks are a good team and most Cavs fans know it.
So I told her," I'll be nicer if you try to be smarter!'..That was a mistake.
Yes. I am usually grouchy but last nice was a game of monumental grouch-inducing proportions.
And I really resent all the Cavs fans showing up to point how we shouldn’t be upset.
Understood
It’s NEW Year’s Eve…take it out on a bottle of Jack Daniels #7
So I told her," I'll be nicer if you try to be smarter!'..That was a mistake.
I felt the same way....
looked like Bibby was trying to hit Smoove on a cut, and he didn’t handle it well. I didn’t think they even noticed the shot clock.
Didn’t look like it to me, unless someone yelled out the shot clock was low at the very end of the clock. Like I said, I have no problem if the NBA decides to replay the last two minutes of the game, it’s a very unacceptable error in a big game. I don’t think I sound unreasonable to say that, do I?
You apparently did not notice what Bibby did the other 10-12 possessions in the last 7 minutes of the 4th.
What he did was initiate a play without the whole team in the front court. The hawks have a screwed-up 4th quarter plan, and we all know and get that it’s screwed up. But there was no numbers advantage, more than one player was in the back court, and the Hawks’ strategy on EVERY OTHER POSSESSION was to space the floor and give the ball to Johnson.
Now would you please just STFU?
My post was both very sympathetic and complimentary toward your team, so no, I don’t have to shut up. If fans from different teams can’t have reasoned discussions, than that’s pretty sad. If I was some homer I would just say something like “oh, that’s just how it goes.” Instead, I say that if the league determines that the game must be replayed from that point I’m okay with it and you’re still upset.
Read the Whole Dime Article
The reporter notes that the Hawks’ protest will almost certainly be denied. So yeah, you do have to STFU. You know they aren’t going to put the Cavs in a position to lose. Watching the NBA is getting close to WWE (as someone above pointed out).
dude....
At any other point of time, us Hawks fans would have a cordial, healthy debate with you. But right now……after last night’s game that was robbed from us…..now is not the time to have a healthy debate. We appreciate your concern and sympathy and I hope that the last two minutes is played over. But to try to have a debate about Bibby not rushing the ball up the floor (agree to disagree w/ you on that) is not the concern here. The officials should have stop play and made adjustments to the clock at a critical point in the game. Again, thanks for your concern, but let us have our time to vent right now.
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Dec 31, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
HawksGuy, that’s a fair point. It’s good that you guys get behind your team and I think we both have that in common. So, I won’t do it again right after a tough loss. Deal?
To the other guy: Read the post again, never, ever, said your team is wrong. And yeah, I know replays almost never happen, however, 10 seconds on a shot clock is a huge error. And I did not say Lebron gets treated like every other player. You keep putting words in my mouth.
Timebonus!, what do these things mean, then?
If you weren’t saying our “team is wrong” (i don’t even know what that means)…what were you saying? Here are the “words i put in your mouth” that I was interpreting to mean “You Hawks fans are wrong on your take on this”:
“That being said, I’m not sure I buy the argument that it rushed ATL’s next possession. They didn’t rush the ball up the floor… I just don’t think it affected that play any.”
“As far as the LeBron rules go: Yes, he does receive many calls, but he is extremely aggressive attacking the basket, and I always think the referees favor the players who do that…Last year he was called for a very touch foul on Danny Granger…they will call fouls on him late in the game…”
Please, no need to explain. Your earlier mea culpa is accepted, and I think you get why everyone here is hot. All we have are words, and they do mean something, and everyone should know exactly what they’re saying when they say it, because you can’t add a hand gesture or a smile or whatever to soften the blow. And I know, I give lots of blow around here (ahem..) :)
I’ll step down now and yield the floor.
“All we have are words, and they do mean something, and everyone should know exactly what they’re saying when they say it, because you can’t add a hand gesture or a smile or whatever to soften the blow. And I know, I give lots of blow around here (ahem..) :)”
That’s very true. If you were and I were kicking it with a beer right now, there would be zero animosity – not that there is too much right now. I would have even bought you the drink based on last night’s events :)
No matter how nice your tone is, you came here right after a very tough loss to your team
to tell us how wrong we are.
That’s rubbing it in, and it’s neither polite nor appropriate.
"I mean, Golly gee, Hawks fans, you're so right to be upset. But really, don't you see that there's nothing to see here?
Gee, whiz, Hawks fans. I mean, you can plainly see that LeBron gets treated like every other player, and you know we’ve had it bad here in Northern Ohio for the last 60 years. But you sure are nice, Hawks fans, even though you’re dead wrong and your team lost so just deal with it. Thanks for being so nice, Hawks fans."
Do you think he scored 48 points all because of the refs help?
How many were because of the refs?
So I told her," I'll be nicer if you try to be smarter!'..That was a mistake.
nobody is talking about his damn points!!
We are talking about the shot clock violation! Stay on the subject or go back to Cleveland’s blog w/ your nonsense remarks!!!!!!!!!!! These effin Cleveland fans don’t quit!!!
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Dec 31, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Will do. Sorry
I used to hate Jordan too but as I matured, I came to appreicate his skills
So I told her," I'll be nicer if you try to be smarter!'..That was a mistake.
timebonus
your post was objective and fair, even if I disagree…thanks for coming on to post. Looks like you guys and the Magic are still the teams to beat.
Thank you DC. A lot can happen in the 2nd half. I doubt many fans saw the Magic going to the finals last year, who knows? None of the top teams is without a flaw, so I think that leaves it more open than people think. The Hawks are a pretty resilient team and should have won last night—they’ll be fine.
Bibby's quote
“I think we should have won this game, and I think they know that, too,” Bibby said. “I was bringing the ball up, and that’s why I started to go because the clock was down. I didn’t know, it was the middle of the game, I thought it was kind of quick. You look at the shot clock, you see the shot clock down, and you play.”
Bibby’s job is to get the play the possession, not dictate the clock, that’s the ref’s job. On top of the clock being down, if the refs were paying attention, they would have call an 8 second violation on the Hawks since the clock was at 14 seconds instead of 24 when Horford grabbed the rebound.
You Cleveland fans are truly unbelievable in try to defend a violation that was wrong on all cylinders. The officiating, not even going to go there, everyone on here already knows how bad the officiating the game was, but the shot clock violation was beyond officiating…..it was staging in its purest form.
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Dec 31, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
the refs don’t use that scoreboard or backboard clock for time line violations…they count…I’m sure you’ve seen the hand move in a horizontal “wave” motion??…Did you think they were waving at the floor?
by cavslandrocks on Dec 31, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
i think the clock situation
magnified because of varejao’s luck three.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
ugh
I’m proud of the boys either way. they played well and showed why they belong in the top bunch. if we get to play a double game, then so be it but if we don’t we still played a great game and need to take it out on every team we play from now on…just ridiculous
by Hawksgirl on Dec 31, 2009 11:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
robbed
all i will say is that most are right on this thread bout james. i mean if u let someone rob a store and dont do nothin about it then they gonna keep robbin stores. the refs wont call the falls. i say get a flagrant on him. woody is also converting to his old ways by not rotating the bench. HE’S DUMB cuz wen he rotates on the sorry team we win but wen he doesnt rotate on the good teams we lose. i say we do get rid of woodson cuz he doesnt kno TEAM ball he just knows TEam ball. figure that out.
Fear The Sword's peeps are so self righteous
Act like they wouldn’t be mad if it was the other way around
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
I like to visit the opponent's blog sites after a game
but I’ve never made a comment no matter how wrong I think they are. I guess I don’t understand why Cavs fans won’t stay on their blog right now. Hell, the party is over there!!
I get why so many people are incensed
But it’s what the Hawks actually did on that shortened possession, and thereafter, which really makes me angry. Please hear me out.
Hawks grabbed the rebound with 14 seconds left on the clock. Horford pushing the pass ahead to Josh Smith who dribbles in place just over the half-court stripe. He passes behind his back to Bibby and starts walking, slowly, to get in position. Bibby is setting up a play with 7 seconds left, meaning the Hawks took 7 seconds just to get set. Jamal Crawford is just now crossing half-court.
Bibby then backs up, and finally initiates the play with 3 seconds left. Josh Smith goes up off of a screen and roll and just loses the ball. That looks like it was exactly the play the Hawks wanted to run, and Josh simply dropped the ball, so I’m not sure if a full possession makes any difference. Now maybe he wanted to pass it, but he didn’t-I wish he had because then there’d have been a shot clock violation, which almost certainly would have prompted a review, and the possession possibly replayed.
I am upset about it because it cost the Hawks a chance to run an actual half-court play, but it’s not like they were really running complicated half-court sets at any point in the second half. What happened AFTER the malfunction makes me much more upset.
Josh Smith jogs back up the court. Boobie Gibson gets the loose ball and pass it off to LeBron, who pushes it up the court. LeBron is well behind Josh when Cleveland gets the ball, but he makes little effort to hurry back on defense. He’s not involved in the resulting possession, even though it’s not quite a fast-break. In transition, Horford picks up Varejao, and Jamal Crawford picks up LeBron (Given the 5 people who were on the floor, I’m guessing LeBron was Josh’s responsibility, while Jamal should have had Gibson or Parker). Varejao sets a screen, LeBron drives on Horford after the switch.
Bibby stands there watching LeBron drive. JJ comes over to help on LeBron as he starts to go up, and LeBron passes out to a wide open Mo Williams, whom Bibby left open by virtue of not guarding anyone. When the shot goes up, Bibby and Joe just stand there watching. Josh has finally made it up to the free throw line, and stops to watch. Jamal attempts to block out Varejao, while Horford blocks out LeBron. Of course, Varejao easily goes up over Jamal, and Josh finally starts to move once the ball is in Varejao’s hands, but it’s too late, and Varejao gets the put-back.
After arguing their case for a very long time about the malfunction, here’s the next play that the Hawks fun. Bibby hands off to JJ, who comes around, trying to pick up a screen from Horford at the 17 second mark. Horford doesn’t have enough time to set the pick, and Varejao doubles on JJ after the pick, leaving Horford wide open around 18 feet. JJ tries to dribble around, and because this was supposed to be an ISO, all 5 Hawks players end up clustered on one half of the floor. Horford finally gets the ball at the top of the circle at the 14 second mark.
Horford, then, instead of driving against LeBron, simply hands off to JJ and resets the ISO. JJ dribbles in against Paker, AGAIN draws a double team from Varejao, but the Hawks are so poorly spaced that no one is immediately open. Josh Smith swings out away from LeBron, catches the pass with 7 seconds left on the shot clock, with a wide open Bibby on the far end of the court. LeBron runs out at Josh Smith who immediately, without hesistation, puts up the jumpshot, down by 1, with 1:12 left. It bangs off.
Everything immediately following the shot clock malfunction was much, much worse than the malfunction play itself, in which the Hawks would have gotten up a decent shot if Josh had simply hanged on to the ball.
On replay, yeah, you're right.
Watched it several times over, and it appears to be the play they wanted to run. Smoove was actually about to get a good shot and he just dropped the ball, then he totally lazed out on the other end, like you said, and let Sideshow Bob get the putback rebound.
I just can’t fathom what was in his head at that moment. What could he possibly have been daydreaming about?
In other news, the shot Horford missed the possession before was an obvious foul on Sideshow Bob (I got to hear Austin Carr gloat about how they got the ball out of JJ’s hand and that’s why the Hawks didn’t score), and on the other end right after, Al played great help D on Mo Williams’ drive and did a great job of not fouling him. Mo totally flopped (there again, I got treated to Austin Carr yelling “WOAH!!!! THEY ARE REALLY LETTING THEM PLAY TONIGHT! He just got pushed onto the floor!!” Well, except that he didn’t, and his name was not LeBron, so he couldn’t get the call).
I don’t understand why, when Sideshow Bob was totally ignoring Horford in order to jump out on Joe 30 feet from the basket, Joe could not have passed the ball to Al—who had nothing but Mo Williams under the basket once Varejoke left. I mean, it’s just pathetic. What in blazes are they doing??
so the Cavs DON’T get ALL he calls then??…I know they don’t..If they did, Crawford would have been whistled for grabbing Andy on the three
I still say that if your coach (es) had been paying attention instead of arguing past calls, the shot clock would have been corrected during the Hawks possession
by cavslandrocks on Dec 31, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Uh...
if you watch the video, it’s clear that Woodson is signalling a play to Bibby from the sideline.
I don’t know what you’re talking about with that one. You’re suggesting the refs were distracted from doing their jobs? Aren’t they paid to ignore that crap when a play is going on and concentrate on the action on the court?
Jeez, man. here we are back to square one with what a bunch of screw-ups the Hawks, on OUR board, from Cavs fans. Mr. Sanchez. do you know karate????
and your coach didn’t see the shot clock?…how convenient…maybe that’s why Bibby made a bad pass or Smith dropped the ball….however you want to portray it…at the end of the day there was a turnover BEFORE the ADMITTEDLY incorrect shot clock expired….THAT alone is probably sufficient grounds to deny the appeal
by cavslandrocks on Jan 1, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
shotclock was incorrect, period.
and it’s just fair to to put back the 10 seconds we have lost. we cannot argue about the many calls and non-calls in favor of lebron but this clock error was not and must not be based on the officials’ judgment . it was a mistake, an error that has to be corrected. aren’t you being presumptuous in coming up with grounds to deny the appeal?
Your true intentions are becoming ever-clearer.
I admitted earlier that the shot-clock possession was of no consequence, and the you tell me that Woodson should have shut his face so the Hawks could make some better play. All I was saying was that that is ridiculous, as Woodson was calling out a play, and THEN he argued the shot clock thing. Of course the TO was first, we get that, didn’t you read my reply a few posts up?
What is the deal with you Cavs people? Winning is not enough for you? You have to harass people and make idiotic assertions as well? Go home, brother!
Before you got so caught up in the shot clock thing I wasn’t being a “sore winner”….I’ve watched the replay of that particular part of the game at least 25 times now…the first ones to notice the shot clock were the ATL announcers…What I saw was Woodson jawing as the Hawks rebounded then just standing there until AFTER the turnover…THEN he started toward the scorers table to check….IF he had been as involved in the action at hand as you say, he SURELY would have noticed the clock in time to call time, which as we’ve all seen in the past would have been made an “official” tine out to sort things out…the announcers did….NO Hawk player looked like they knew the clock was close to expiring-that is they looked to be moving in an unhurried manner trying to execute a P&R …had there not been a turnover this would not even be in the discussion…the Hawks would have gotten 14 sec from half court if they could have held onto the ball for two more seconds…no one attempted any desperation shots…right??…I think the League will look at the short shot clock as a non factor because of the turnover..
by cavslandrocks on Jan 1, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
HERE IS WHAT I HAVE TO SAY TO EVERY CLEVELAND CAVALIERS FAN ON PEACHTREE HOOPS"
EXCEPT FOR TIMEBONUS! YOU ARE THE SOREST BUNCH OF HARASSING WINNERS I HAVE EVER SEEN. LET ME JUST SAY, RIGHT NOW, FOR EVERYONE’S SAKE, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE IN CLEVELAND:
1. YOU ARE RIGHT, NO ONE SHOULD EVER HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THEW SHOT CLOCK ISSUE.
2. YOU ARE RIGHT, LEBRON NEVER GETS ANY CALLS.
3. YOU ARE RIGHT, THE HAWKS REALLY SUCK.
4. YOU ARE RIGHT. MIKE WOODSON IS CONSTANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT CALLS WHEN HE SHOULD BE WATCHING THE ACTION ON THE COURT. WE ARE SURE THAT YOU HAVEW SEEN MORE HAWKS GAMES THAN US AND YOU KNOW WHAT A WHINY LAME-O WOODSON IS FROM THAT.
5. YOU ARE RIGHT.
6. YOU ARE RIGHT.
7. YOU ARE RIGHT.
8. YOU ARE RIGHT.
9. I’M NOT SURE WHAT ABOUT AT THIS POINT…BUT I’M SURE YOU ARE RIGHT.
10. PLEASE HAVE A NICE NEW YEAR. WHO DO YOU PLAY NEXT?
I don’t mind answering. @New Jersey tomorrow. Do you want to know because you plan on watching and cheering for us?
On a serious note, while i don’t speak for other cavs fans i personally dont hate the Hawks, if we dont make it out of the East i’d much rather it be you guys instead of the Celtics or Magic. As for point #2, no reasonable cavs fans think lebron or the cavs in general NEVER get any calls, we just don’t think people high up in the NBA pull strings to get wins for a small market NBA team that will lose money (relatively speaking) for the NBA if it makes it to the finals.
As for the shot clock, yes it was terrible, yes it should never have happened, yes once it did happen someone should have been smart enough to see it and fix the problem. But i honestly don’t believe thats the reason you guys lost. You had control of this game at one point, then we had 36 consecutive possessions without giving up a turnover. And late in the game your offense became predictable, and some of your guys got lazy on defensive. That contributed more to the loss than the shotclock.
by CavsLebronFan on Jan 1, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
we don't care about the cavs
so please stay in your own blog. you guys have gone over the bounds of decency, coming here, insulting us. i was tempted to go to your blog and hurl insults myself but out of respect for the other guys there who do not think the way you do, i did not. so for the nth time, please leave and do not come back.
Damn, I'm so glad somebody finally said something about the Varejo foul on Al
Really not sure how that was missed, but he clearly pushed Al. No wonder he missed that shot. He’s usually money from that distance.
It was missed because Al is not LeBron, dammit.
Just starts p*ssing me off again to think about it.
Al isnt lebron but apparently Crawford is, i looked at the highlights today and i noticed he grabbed varejao on his 3 point shot, it should have been a 4 point play but it was ignored.
And on an unrelated note, while the shot clock error was a terrible screw up and whoever is in charge of it should be fired, i don’t think it had much to do with your loss. Perhaps something that contributing more was a stat i just found, we didn’t turn the ball over in our last 36 possessions. Thats more significant than 5 seconds on one shot clock.
by CavsLebronFan on Dec 31, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
shot clock showed 14 seconds so we lost 10 seconds, not 5
so jamal is lebron! that’s new.
it kinda looked like
Josh got fouled by bron on that drive
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
I don't think so. Josh just dropped the ball.
Bron had an awkward position but any contact really would have come from Sideshow Bob. But I couldn’t see any, and I watched it from two angles about 10 different times.
In addition to all of Josh’s other little foibles…can someone teach him how to use his right hand? Please?
I watched it on The Ball Don't Lie
And it was a link from youtube. There was clear contact or an innocent knock away
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
yeah
they also scored it a steal for lebrick. http://www.nba.com/games/20091230/ATLCLE/gameinfo.html
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
In a nutshell
We may as well move on. Nothing will change. We have two straight losses and we play the Knicks tomorrow. They’re due some payback.
Hawks don't know karate, but they know ca-razy.
Thanks, JB.
I cant wait to play these clowns again. I will be there.
maybe lebron will have a full joker suit on this time for his pre-game “rituals.” happy new year everyone!
I feel sorry for the Knicks tonight....
Besides losing to the Cavs last night, the Knicks were the last team to beat the Hawks at the Highlight factory. The Knick are about to walk into a warzone with a butterknife!
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Dec 31, 2009 2:43 PM EST reply actions
yea I feel ya...............
The knicks are about to be in the right place at the right time in the hawks place. wanna bet we see teague tomorrow though? still pissed I didn’t see him 2 straight games……………….
by Hawksgirl on Dec 31, 2009 3:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
What happened?
Cmon- The Hawks had a 17 point lead. It should never have come down to the last two minutes- should have been a Atlanta blowout!
Apparently it's League-Wide Rag on the Hawks Week or something.
Yes, we are well aware it should not have been close.
these last two games have been blown way out of proportion
Not saying they aren’t important but the media has something else to bring the hawks down with.
by Hawksgirl on Jan 1, 2010 1:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Peachtree Hoops
Related FanShots on Peachtree Hoops
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Video: Please enjoy Jeremy Evans, dunk contestant
- Jeremy Lin finds himself a nice hotel to stay in, complete with a BLT bar
- Video: The Chinese Basketball Association’s All-Star game has the worst highlights ever
- Jeremy Lin scores his second straight Sports Illustrated cover, joining some lofty company
- New Jersey readies itself to welcome Dwight Howard with a bang
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
