Cleveland 95, Atlanta 84, or Please just shove a stick in my eye
by Bronn on Dec 29, 2009 10:30 PM EST
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PrintWith 32.1 seconds left in the third quarter, Zaza Pachulia beat LeBron James down the court for an open dunk. This obviously vexed the basketball gods, as the Hawks would not score again for another 9 minutes and 20 seconds. The Hawks went into the fourth quarter trailing 75-74, and came dangerously close to finishing with 74 points.
After that, the Hawks misremember how to score. Here's a quick summary of those disastrous possesions:
1) Joe missed from three over Jamario Moon
2) Horford missed fade-away jumper over Varejao from 10 feet
3) Horford missed wide open jumper from 19 feet
4) Horford turnover (bad pass) in transition
5) Mo Evans blocked dunk in transition
6) Jamal Crawford traveling violation (crab dribble?)
7) Joe Johnson turnover in transition
8) Joe Johnson turnover
9) Jamal Crawford missed 17 foot jumper
10) Josh Smith missed 22 foot jumper
11) Al Horford missed hook shot
12) Joe Johnson bad pass off of a drive
13) Joe Johnson missed 3 point jumper
14) Joe Johnson turnover
15) Joe Johnson missed technical free throw, and Jamal Crawford missed 2 free throws on the ensuing possesion
16) Mike Bibby missed three pointer over Mo Williams
By the time Josh Smith dunked the ball with 3:12 left in the game, the game was essentially lost. Joe Johnson and Al Horford are obviously your biggest culprits here, but the clear trend is that the Hawks devolved into playing a ton of one-on-one, and you just can't do that against premier defensive teams. There's some bad luck mixed in there as well, for sure, but the Hawks failed to recreate the ball movement from the first three quarters which had turned into efficient scoring. And it's painful to watch a team so good at limiting their turnovers turn the ball over 6 times in 16 possessions.
Joe Johnson can be such a tease, as well. After going 4-4 with a free throw to score 11 points in the game's first 6 minutes, he shoots 1-10 the rest of the game and finishes with only 15, and commits four turnovers during a critical fourth quarter stretch. The offense was so bad that it overshadowed the defense, which held the Cavs to 2-14 shooting over that same stretch. The Hawks in fact managed to cut the lead to 5 with just under a minute remaining before an Ilgauskus three sealed it.
Loser Dots: (New, in paragraph form)
- Lost in that horrid, horrid mess of a fourth quarter was the incredible defensive game Marvin played. LeBron James went 6-20 shooting, and at least 2 of those makes were while Marvin was out of the game. A third basket was where a switch put Crawford on James, resulting in a three point-play on a Zaza foul.
- I love that DVR lets me relive Zaza Pachulia beating LeBron James down the floor, but I hate that the fourth quarter looks just as bad a second time.
- Jamal Crawford scored 26 points on 10-17 shooting, which is overshadowed by two missed free throws late. The story through 3 quarters was the shoot-out between him and Mo Williams.
- Jeff Teague received another DNP-CD; a puzzler considering how bad Atlanta's guard play was.
- Josh Smith sat for several critical stretches with foul trouble. However, he did not foul out, despite playing the last 6 minutes with five fouls. I say this because it was he who finally broke the Hawks' scoring drought, and because the Hawks blew three transition opportunities during the drought before he returned. I can't help but believe the Hawks would have gotten more out of their transition opportunities with Josh in the game.
- Of course, the first thing he did upon returning was chuck a 22 foot jumper followed by a clear path violation.
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I think it has to be noted who was guarding Joe in the 1st versus the 4th
..and when it gets down to it, Shaq or no Shaq, Joe Johnson cannot do anything against LeBron James when the game is on the line. Cannot stop him, cannot score on him.
And as both are go-to guys, right there is the difference in the game. All other parts were equal (or 75-74), and all the other details of this game notwithstanding, when the Hawks needed a score they could not get it from the guy that is paid to win games in the 4th. End of story, good night, sweet prince.
Largely
JJ had Jamario Moon guarding him. LeBron had him for a few a few possessions as well, of course.
The real problem is that the Hawks’ need for a go-to guy. It’s a lot to ask Joe to core against LeBron who is both bigger and faster than he is. I’d have been thrilled to see Marvin get a few opportunities, since LeBron was matched up on JJ, and Crawford didn’t even get many opportunities during that fiasco.
call
but the refs took the game out of hand by giving the Cavs 3 points on techincals on the clear path foul call. Who cares if Moon was guarding JJ, or LeBron guarded him or what Jamal was doing. In the end it doesn’t matter, because you weren’t getting the call anyway.
I would say
That the lack of defense during the first half from anyone not named Marvin, followed by a ridiculous, nearly unprecedent offensive swoon played a much bigger part of this loss than a single whistle which was probably the right call anyway. The Hawks’ frustration that resulted in a Woodson technical was much more a result of their own offensive ineptitude than a belief that the official made the wrong call.
In fact, one of the few things I did not find offensive about this game was the officiating. I thought it was a very well called game overall.
the clear path
foul was the wrong call. What clear path? Delonte was 60 feet from the basket and Zaza was even with or ahead of Delonte.
you
are calling me a troll, when all I am looking for is fair officiating.
c’mon man…go to any board and look at any post game thread and someone is going to say their team got screwed by the refs.As a Cavs fan I like to visit opposing teams boards…especially the talented teams so I can get a feel for what’s going on…etc. etc. I felt overall the game was called OK…not great, not bad.
Anyways, aside from the offensive meltdown in the 3rd…I expect any playoff series, should it come to pass, between the cavs/hawks to be identical to the first half of this game. What a difference a year makes.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 29, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Johnny
youre a cavs propaganda artist. I’m talking about specific calls, not going on other teams blogs after my team beat them trying to act like a good guy.
a cavs propaganda artist.
lol. Im not trying to act like a good guy…I’m attempting to demonstrate that you are full of sh*t, but it seems obvious that most people around this board already know that. Must suck that you’re kind of the ‘pay no mind’ guy around these parts…I’ll take that advice.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 30, 2009 2:48 AM EST up reply actions
3. post. reply. in. 9 mins. butthurt much? Dude, there’s a whooole other game tomorrow….er…today…that you can bitch about the refs if you care to. If you win are you gonna whine about the refs, or just talk about how well your guys played and break it down? OR say nothing?
I guess we’ll see…
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 30, 2009 2:52 AM EST up reply actions
But in the 4th LeBron took him...not sure for how much, but the commentators mentioned it early on.
Bron Bron just nullifies JJ. And the Hawks have so bought in to the idea that JJ is “the man” that admitting that he is not is damning for both coach and player.
Something’s gotta give.
I meant in the fourth
On at least two of those four possessions where JJ was used, Moon was the man guarding him. LeBron was involved, especially on a transition play.
JJ’s failure to score after the first 6 minutes is much, much more than having LeBron guarding him late in the game.
that's why he can't get a max offer
I love him..like Lebron said as he goes so does the team….but he’s not a max contract guy….that game gave Hawks mgmt the upper hand…let’s see what happens tonight
this team goes as Josh goes.
The biggest misconception about the Hawks is that Joe makes them go. If Josh doesn’t do what he does well the team doesn’t win.
Imagine
if the Hawks got 10 foul calls called against the other team all in a row all in the 4th, like they got in Boston. Hawks 97 Cavs 88 anyone?
Is it just me?
or does the main man JOe Johnson seem to be cold more often than hot; seem to be on the wrong side of the role for the go ahead basket; and the wrong side of a turnover during a crucial part of the game.
On another note as far as officiating I think the game would be much improved by coaches and players being able to put a post review anonymously and the NBA being able to levy fines for poorly called games.
exactly
because the games are not being officiated correctly. I’ve been asking people what they think of the clear path foul on Josh Smith. I know what Mike Woodson thinks. Yet I haven’t heard one person express their opinion yet on the play.
probably not
Delonte just got the ball, and Josh fouled him. Its a regular foul. Not a clear path. Delonte is 60 feet from the basket, the call is wrong. Its a rigged call.
100% not
ask Mike Woodson, ask Kevin McHale, ask Chris Webber. Do you think those guys know basketball? Of course they do, and all 3 of them disagreed with that call more than any other call in the game.
yeah perfect example even though i was listening to it on the radio those types of things are written in stone and should not be called incorrectly
thank you
and it took 100 posts. This is the exact reason why games are rigged. It takes 100 posts to finally get a correct answer.
I don't know about the clear path foul but
the loose ball foul on Smoove was the worst for me. Varejo was clearly over Smoove’s back while fighting for the rebound. They showed the replay on the jumbotron and the place went nuts! We can say what we want to say about officiating. It is what it is. If you’re mentally tough, it can take you out of the game. As far as the JC call, I thought they called an offensive foul on JC. Did they call him traveling? Wow! So Andy flopped for nothin? It was a pretty move nonetheless. We were called for countless moving screens. Zaza is notorious for those. Everytime we were called for some type of offensive foul, the ball magically made its way into the goal.
the thing is
I told you this would happen.
“The opposing coach will get hit with a key late 3rd Qtr or 4th Qtr techincal, while Mike Brown will not”
by malik377 on Dec 29, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
posted on power rankings before the game started.
It goes both ways..
How about that foul called on Andy when (I forget who it was) when up for a shot and just lost the ball without being touched? I don’t see anyone complaining about that.
the funny thing
is I guess you will all just talk about JJ’s game plan, what Josh should do, how good Jamal is, but the bottom line is they are not going to get the call when it matters against the Cavs so who cares how well any of them play.
Come on...
Enough. Watch a Cavs game – LeBron takes a lot of contact and gets no calls. Watch the first half of the Lakers game. I’m not going to sit here and say that I think NBA officials are all that consistent – they aren’t. They admittedly hold grudges and allow the flow of the game to be affected by the atmosphere and personal bias. That said, I WISH LeBron would get the calls Jordan got – just hard to get them when the guy is 6-9, 270.
FTS
SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers Blogger
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on Dec 29, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
LeBron
not getting calls, well 31 other teams won’t agree with you on that one. However contact calls are different from things like clear path.
LeBron is 7th in the NBA in FT attempts per game....
SEVENTH! Sorry, but he doesn’t get the calls.
FTS
SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers Blogger
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on Dec 29, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
of course
Dwight Howard didn’t get “all ball” on last year’s block against LeBron, the greatest block ever that gave LeBron 3 FT. But FTA are different from things like clear path, those calls should not be made incorrectly. Everyone makes mistakes on contact calls. No excuse for a mess up on a clear path, that is why the call is rigged.
I'd encourage you to ignore this troll
he just joined this blog today and can’t stop talking ref conspiracy theories.
its the call
that is wrong, its not a conspiracy. The call is 100% wrong.
I'm not a Troll...
Give me a break
FTS
SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers Blogger
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on Dec 29, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
The Troll
is this crazy guy insisting that the entire game hinged on a clear path violation, which actually the right call.
so
you don’t agree with your own coach then. Really? You think Mike Woodson is a liar?
Last response I'll give you.
I DVRed the game. I’m looking, right now, at a still of Delonte West, with no one in front of him, and Josh Smith wrapping up his arm. Almost the exact definition of a clear path foul. Zaza is two steps behind him, and Josh doesn’t catch any ball on his reach-in.
Dominique Wilkins said “Yes, clearly a clear-path violation” and the man knows a few things about basketball himself. And he clearly should be biased for the Hawks.
wrong call
Clear Path to the Basket: If a fast break starts in a team’s backcourt and a defender fouls any offensive player when the team is going to score an easy basket, a clear path foul has occurred. When the foul happens, no defender can be ahead of the ball where he could defend against the easy basket.
1.No fast break was started Delonte just got the ball.
2.“easy basket” 60 feet from the basket is “easy?”
100% rigged call.
I see your point
he had not really started the break yet…..but I still don’t think the refs screwed up….there was a lot of contact on Joe driving to the basket that was not called….but they were letting some contact go on the other end too…I still think JJ doesn’t get calls like he should
What is this
a second identity made up for us by malik377??
Hey, malik377, will you share your imaginary standings with us? What is the Hawks’ record in malik-world?
ha ha...check my history i've been here before
you can question the call is all I’m saying….but officiating didn’t cost them the game
defenition
It is the exact definition of NOT a clear path foul. Josh was right with him as Delonte got the ball, he fouled him thats it. He wasn’t chasing Delonte from behind and wrapped him up just as he was 2 steps from making a layup. Big difference. 100% the wrong call. Rigged.
The Hawks had plenty more problems in that 4th quarter than just that one call. It was their poor offense that lost it for them, not one call.
Seriously,
do not waste your time arguing with someone who thinks the tech was the undoing of the Hawks. If I were making a list of things that went wrong for Atlanta that tech wouldn’t crack the top 10
and so did the Cavs
3 points in 6 minutes up until that call, it goes both ways. the Cavs were playing very poorly too, and the refs got them going with that bs call.
You should have seen the game thread.
Where he claimed the Hawks-Boston game was “rigged” and that the Celtics’ “real” record is 27-3.
He’s like an NBA D & D guy.
not the right call
Why is it the right call when Woodson, McHale AND Webber all disagree and more than any other call in the game.
Hawks won't beat Cavs this year
As much as I like the Hawks and as much as I want it to happen, Cavs won’t beat Hawks in a 7 game series this year. Refs won’t let it happen. Best chance Hawks have is if Celtics beat Cavs and then Hawks can beat Celtics.
Cavs won’t beat Hawks in a 7 game series this year. Refs won’t let it happen.
Alright man, don’t mean to be disrespectful on this board but I gotta say that is the biggest pile of horsesh*t I’ve heard so far.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 29, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
wrong
talk to me in June and see where that statement is at. There is only 1 team that can beat any team no matter what the refs do, because they have been doing it their whole lives.
wrong
talk to me in June
Alright…I will…you guys aren’t there yet. SORRY. DEAL with it.
by johnnyphoenix on Jan 1, 2010 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
The point is this....
That call had nothing to do with the Hawks going over 9 minutes without scoring a point. The Hawks went to the FT Line 26 times to the Cavaliers 19. LeBron shot 3, count them, 3 FTs tonight.
This was the case of two strengths coming together – the Hawks scoring nearly 106 PPG while the Cavs allow 94 PPG. Tonight the defense won out.
Tomorrow, we shall see. Looking forward to it!
FTS
SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers Blogger
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on Dec 29, 2009 11:09 PM EST reply actions
Cavs only had 3 points in 6 minutes
don’t see what the Hawks not scoring has to do with anything. Don’t understand why if the Hawks don’t score, they should get phony calls made against them. That doesn’t make sense.
The game was ugly in the 4th
for both teams. Period. Marvin did a hell of a job on Bron, he needs to try to duplicate it tomorrow nite. That’s probably asking for a bit much, but I aim high! The Hawks have to establish some sort of consistent post game so they can get high percentage shots when they go into these droughts and the jumpers stop falling. It’s ridiculous. My vote is for Al, even though he had a rough night offensively.
It's not the post game
Hawks play into the Cavs’ strength when they post up. Horford showed that by forcing some things in the second half. What they need is for Horford and Josh to play their face-up games where they can use their athleticism to their advantage.
It is the post game
in that Horford, Pachulia, Smith are not good enough (yet) to make it work against good defenders like Varejao and Shaq. Shoot, did you see how much trouble Horford had against Ilgauskas???
I love Al to death, and he has become a much better offensive player this year, but he doesn’t have Tim Duncan’ s or even Elton Brand’s post moves quite yet. If he ever does, and we can get a reliable non-Joe go-to guy—or if Smoove develops a single offensive move that always works—the team will really be dangerous down the stretch. But right now Joe is the option —or Crawford, but they essentially do very similar things, so it’s Contract Year Joe.
And Joe, as we all know, is not good enough to take all comers when the games is on the line, and he can’t even get to the free throw line.
So really, it’s either get a better player down low/have one of our improve/ or get a guy who can break down the defense from the perimeter in those situations.
The only way they get to use their athleticism
is if our guards give them the ball a little more regularly.
Kevin McHale pointed out that "everyone needs a go-to move."
And our young bigs don’t have it. Or, Al has that little hook shot from the middle. But he couldn’t get that against bigger guys who clogged the lane down, I guess. Smoove has no move. If he gets one he’ll be an all-star immediately.
And the Hawks will start wining these games, because they will be able to get good shoots down the stretch. Right now, Joe cannot dribble penetrate and when his defender is big enough to deny position (LBJ) he has take a guarded jump shot. Not a good shot!
I'm not referring
to this particular game specifically, I just mean in general. They have to be able to get higher percentage shots. Joe is not making the case that he’s worth more than $15 million over 4. He can’t keep disappearing in the big games.
Gotcha.
I think there’s a reason he disappears in big games against teams other than Boston, though, and the reason is that he’s not that good. Teams are keying on him and understanding that they have to put a good SF on him to eliminate an dribble penetration/backing down. they also know he doesn’t pass out of the double-team in the crunch and will force bad shots without compromising the defense, i.e., get to the line.
This team as constructed is not good enough to make a serious playoff run. There’s any number of places where a single changes would make a huge difference. JJ’s issues as “go-to guy” is just one issue; having a low-post game would that required a double-down from one of the bigs would open things up for him and Crawford, too.
it takes a dbl team to stop Joe
give him credit he can take on anybody one on one. Even LBJ, but its when they double him at the rim. You would expect a call, but he doesn’t get it. He has an automatic floater, but when he’s getting bumped or hit he’s not making that shot
But teams collapes on him when he drives, they run at the passing lanes when he spots up, and they charge at him off the picks…he has it rough every night
Gee, why didn't he take LeBron last night in the 4th?
How many times in the 4th did Joe do anything other than try to shoot a long jumper over someone?
yeah...this is why we keep Marvin
he can defend LB, and it’s why I like our chances againt the Cavs, even in the playoffs
Let me say again
It’s games like this that highlight why Coach Woodson still does not have a contract. Like I’ve said a million times before, blowouts are great, but they don’t tell you anything about your coach. WE see what Woody is made of in close games that could go either way.
COY
see this makes no sense, clearly at this point in the season Mike Woodson is Coach of the Year in the NBA. You have to have your coaches back. He didn’t deserve that T. Woodson was right.
but you know if he does win COY his chances of being fired after a poor start increases tremendously! I want to laugh, but it is not funny
yes
but Woodson is doing great this year that is the point. You see how upset he got with the bs clear path foul. Just have your coaches back, that’s all I’m asking. Don’t doubt the guy now, he is trying his best for your team the Hawks.
Malik, c'mon son.......again
Bad calls will happen, has been since the beginning of the NBA. Please, get a warm towel, pat your p***y and stfu w/ all the crying over one damn foul. You look like a fuckin idiot to ALL OF US on there trying to argue about one damn foul! The Hawks didn’t play ball for 48 minutes and they lost a game they could have won……END OF STORY!
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Dec 30, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
During the playoffs not sure if it was this past one or the one before that the TNT guys said that this team was either Josh Smith’s or Joe Johnson’s and we had to figure out whose it was. They also said they already knew. I had no idea at the time, but I am slowly coming to the realization that i still have no idea.
It's Josh.
The team goes as he goes. If he’s flying around blocking shots and dunking and being a menace then the Hawks are at their best. If he’s not, they’re not.
ya know
I was really about to type that, but the thought of it was so disturbing that I changed my comment. so then what do we do with Joe Johnson?
These kinds of losses are disheartening
hey guys I have been a hawks fan for a long time, and have read this blog for over a year now. I figured I would put my input in for this game… (i have been meaning to make an account for a while now but have been too lazy)
-I don’t think i’ve ever been this upset since Thanksgiving against the magic…how the hell do we go through such scoring slumps against good teams? blowing out other whack teams does not redeem such losses against good teams.
-Marvin Williams did a great job today, my only gripe was his block then errant pass straight to mo williams for an easy 2 pts
-Joe Johnson frustrates me a lot in the fact that he doesn’t “show up” in a lot of big games for us…I don’t expect him to score easily against Lebron (4th quarter), but to be a nonfactor after the first quarter is garbage. He is our leader and he needs to do work!!
-Bob Rathbun is awesome most of the time, but he says some stupid stuff sometimes. ONE: he said he would walk to cleveland if jamal missed his 2 free throws in the 4th (i guess that means his ass is walking lol) TWO: he says that today would have been a good day for mike woodson to get ejected to fire up the home crowd and the team. uhh sorry bob but we still need our coach
by ssjsike on Dec 30, 2009 12:01 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Gotta give the Cavs credit
They played the dog shit out of the passing lanes. We knew that and we still made lazy passes. This game wasn’t pretty in the least bit. I suspect a much worse scenario tomorrow night. Thank God it wasn’t nationally televised.
Bottom Line
The Invisble Man starring Joe Johnson should have been the name of the 4th quarter. After his final despicable turnover, I left. Nothing left to see. Say what you want to about Jamal, the dude is an absolute beast. He has his shortcomings defensively, but at least he tries. He’s not afraid to shoot the ball and he’s not intimidated by anybody with a so-called “elite” status. If it were not for him, this game would have looked far worse than it was. Shout out to Marvin Gaye Williams!! He did his thing against LBJ. He played aggressively, got to the free throw line, and knocked them down effortlessly. Yet I’m befuddled as to why he was on the bench in the 4th. Another Woody original. Go Hawks!!
Well said
dstdeelite, I left after J Smoove got dunked on by the schitzo Delonte West. J Crawford should start over Bibby and bring Bibby off the bench to lead the second team.
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Dec 30, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I never thought about that
but it wouldn’t hurt to tweak a few things this early in the season. With that being said, I do like Jamal’s firepower coming off the bench. He’s really thrived as the 6th man. I don’t want to mess that up. Here’s an idea: why doesn’t Bibby just step the hell up! He and Smoove have a chemistry that you don’t see every day and it’s hard to replicate that success with anybody else.
SO FRUSTRATING!
It seems that the Hawks simply cannot get to the next level. I thought that they broke through, or at least were going to, when they beat the Celtics in Boston earlier in the season.
Since then, they’ve hosted the Cavs and Magic and lost to both. It would be one thing to lose in Cleveland or Orlando but it’s intolerable to lose to both at home when one expects the Hawks to become one of the top-tier teams. If they can’t beat the Cavs or Magic in Atlanta, how the heck are they going to do it on the road?
It’s fine to beat the Portlands and Miamis of the world but you’re not going to win a championship unless you can beat the best. And blowing out bad and mediocre teams may make the Hawks feel good but it means nothing to the elite teams.
At the moment (and it’s still early in the season), the Hawks are a distant fourth seed to the top three teams in the East. Or maybe they can beat the Celtics only but not the Cavs or Magic.
We needed to beat you because we need you to stay at #4
We need you to play the Miami Heat in the playoffs this year again. If you beat them, maybe Dwayne Wade will get so fed up with his team that we can lure him to Cleveland in 2010.
It's very disturbing
We had a packed house, and yet it sounded so empty. The fans seemed more preoccupied booing LeBron than actually cheering our Hawks on. Crowds here in Sacramento are more fired, even when half full.
by da fatchick thrilla on Dec 30, 2009 2:45 AM EST reply actions
It wasn't like that last year
I don’t know if they’ve changed people who are responsible for the music, but at times it’s like a funeral home in there. I sent an email to one of the announcers about it, but I didn’t get a response. Something has definitely changed. I don’t have a problem with them booing LeBron, but the crickets chirping between plays are unbearable.
I think dispite...
The individual blam games and giving cleveland credit when they already receive enough, this was a good game. A very good defensive game that the hawks could have won. A lot of their shots in the fourth looked like a protest to drive to the paint. I think if the hawks drive more than usual and keep lebron from scoring 20 than today’s game will be a win.
And if Woody actually uses his other bigs, and maybe jeff teague i know this might be a stretch, we won’t look tired tonight.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Lack of Good Offensive Plays
I think this games exposes one thing: the Hawks have no offensive sets other than throw it in to someone or isolate Joe. That’s it.
During the 9 minute stretch there should have been a play or two called to try and get people in rhythm or to try and break the ice. We should have run Joe, Jamal or Bibby off screens for a catch and shoot. We should have set up an alley-oop for Al or Josh. Run a pick and roll. Run a pick and pop. SOMETHING! ANYTHING!
If you watch teams with good coaches they have plays they can turn to when things bog down. Plays that have been rehearsed so many times that the players can mechanically execute and try to get back into a rhythm.
The Hawks simply have none.
When We Get Destroyed Tonight
We will have the same record at the end of December this year as we had last year…. so are we better than last year?.. makes you wonder.. We have been dominated by the Magic, Cavs, and Lakers this year. If we can’t beat the “elite” we can’t be called “elite”.
by BravesFanScout on Dec 30, 2009 10:25 AM EST reply actions
I still honestly believe they have a chance
Atlanta isn’t the team we saw last night but it seems that when they have a big game they stink it up alot. I’m just ready to see what woody has planned and I hope it has to do with the bench. jj………….i really don’t know what’s up with him. usually the fourth quarter his his quarter but he was ice cold and woody kept burning him. marv did well and so did Crawford, I believe teague Collins and randmo need a chance. Joe smith didn’t get enough time to even try. Just ready for tonight, Let’s Go Hawks!
by Hawksgirl on Dec 30, 2009 10:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I can tell you what Woody's plan is...........
Nothing! If so, we would have seen it last night. This was it. This was his shot and he blew it. He rode JJ like a pony for nothing. Because JJ gave us nothing, nada, zilch, nil in the second half. Oh wait he did give us something…a shit load of turnovers! He was exhausted! But elite, all-stars find a way to get it done. I have tried my hardest to defend Woody and JJ, but I threw my rose color glasses away last night. That 4th quarter was just awful to watch. Our issues will be magnified by 10 tonight. We’ll probably get blown out tonight something awful. I hate to say that, but I believe it now. Hey, but I am the same person who gave us a less than 0% chance of winning in Boston too.
I kinda think they are the team we saw last night.
I’ve seen that team a lot lately.
rbubp, are you really a Hawks fan? lol....I just have to know
Most people on here vent and at the end of the day they seem encouraged. You’re the total opposite. You give us the hardcore facts with no grease. I guess you tell us what we don’t want to admit about our team. It just gets discouraging. Are you Truth-Serum from the AJC blog? Lol…Just wondering…(I’m seriously not trying to be rude….I just want to know your take) :-)
Yeah!!
But I admit I get disgusted easily. And I’m a realist, so it drives me a little nuts when other fans think the team is better than it is (which is very common among fans—they’re generally biased.)
I do want to be surprised, though…and you won’t usually find me on the game threads because I can;t read/type and watch the game at the same time!! Last night I got so bent out of shape about that 4th qtr just had to vent!
Don't want to be discouraging, though.
Sorry for that! I guess I have this way of feeling like I can get what the limitations are but also still be very enthusiastic at game time. Ii don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade about being fans—maybe about expectations, sometimes, LOL!
Not taken as rudeness or any such thing, dst!
Haha
You and I can be the Captains of Pessimistic Hawks fans. I will admit though that this season thus far is slowly pushing me back towards optimistic from an overall viewpoint. Sure, Woodson still has problems and as far as winning the Finals goes, there are things that should be adjusted, but overall this team is much better than it has been in years and it’s more complete that it was last year.
That being said though, if you asked me before each game who would win, the answer will always be the Hawks. I still believe that we can win every single game while knowing that it isn’t likely to happen.
"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC
I'm kind of like a kid during Christmas time
All the days leading up to Christmas, you’d convince yourself that your parents received all your dropped hints about that Keith Sweat tape you really want. You wake up Christmas morning all excited….only to be disappointed. Not only didn’t you get the greatest tape of all time but you got stuff you “needed”. I.e. pajamas, socks, and underwear.
Haha, that's Twisted
"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC
I agree about the team being better.
I’m just down because I suspected the Cavs would be a tough matchup based on how they looked versus LA on Xmas and how we looked versus Orlando. Those two teams are big and strong inside and it puts a lot of pressure on our guards. And we came out and confirmed by suspicions about how we;d do.
So I think this team may be the best in modern Hawks history. Don’ forget that the team record is only 57 wins! I think this team can beat that. But we have major issues with being able to handle big, strong, tough teams like Cleveland and Orlando (fortunately I don’t think there’s anyone else quite like those two). Here’s hoping for the Celtics in the playoffs!!!!
JJ is the opposite of clutch
Usually I am too lazy to comment but after last night’s game I just felt like venting. I have always supported Joe Johnson in the past but over the course of this season he has slowly shown that he is not a player capable of carrying a team on his back. Yes, the entire team struggled but our all-star is supposed to carry everytone on his back when everyone is slumping. The last time he did so in a meaningful game, as far as I can remember, was in one quarter of Game 6 against the Boston Celtics in the 2008 playoffs. I know its easy to knock the guy when he has a bad game but even against Chicago when he dropped 40 points (in more than 30 shots) he did a few stupid things down the stretch that lost the game, including forced shots, turning the ball over, and blowing a wide open layup. My point is that he misses free throws down the stretch (remember the Boston game last year at home that we lost by one posession?), cant hit an open jump shot to save his life, and he either turns the ball over anytime he is double teamed, forces a shot, or passes the ball to someone with 2 secs left on the shot clock. We have so many weapons on this team that it has become frustrating to watch our half court offense (a.k.a the Joe Johnson one on one show).
I can cosign that
In Woody’s post game interview he broached the subject of going to someone else when JJ doesn’t have it going. We’ll keep waiting on that day, Woody. If JJ gets it going early, most likely teams will adjust their game plan and clamp down on him. He has to be expecting this. That means he has to give the ball up. Those turnovers last night were the proverbial nails in our coffin. Inexcusable!
Tough Night
It was first game of year i attended, taking nephew and niece and brother to the game. I enjoyed the first 3 quarters, certainly not the last. I thought the crowd was good, may be not great.
Some observations, I hated the call against JC for travel or whatever, I thought that one changed the flow. But referees were not the problem, the opponent was. Josh needs to be careful, refs talk to each other, and Smoove is getting a little bit of a reputation for complaining, and ref are looking to get even. JJ will always get the toughest defensive player in the 4th qtr assigned to him. None tougher than the king, and results were obvious as expected. Kudos to JC and Marvin. Without JC where would we be? I have not heard any one say anything negative about Bibby’s performance, but to my recollection, he missed every shot he attempted. People comment whether Teague should have come in, but his performance in last few games has been sub-par. A real problem area for us right now against Mo Williams.
Coaching, well Woody needs to understand that JJ has limitations, Unless he understands that, and draws plays for other players, in the clutch JJ will struggle. So even though it may be fashionable to blame it on JJ, i think this is coaching. Many of your great people see that, why is Woody missing it? Draw plays for JC, for Horford, for even Marvin.
Last, Cleveland did not beat themselves. LeBron had a tough game. But Cleveland stayed in there. That to me was the most impressive thing about them. I eat my words from yesterday, even though the Big are slow for Cleveland, they played well and had many scoring opportunities converted. One note gang, Cleveland is on a roll right now, playing the best basketball in the world, so as tough as it is, let’s learn and move on from the loss.
All, Hawks are on the cusp of something great. Games we are losing, we have been leading in (against Orlando, and against Magic). Maturity and better coaching will get us there eventually (with or without Woody, it is up to him). Hang in there, tough tough loss, another learning experience tonight, but this team has tons of potential. GO HAWKS
by ATLpaul on Dec 30, 2009 12:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I totally agree ATLpaul
Me being a positive person its hard for me to not hopeful for them to turn this around, which I’m hoping they will. but jj needs to get it together and quick. woody is turning into the culprit though because he hasn’t set him straight. I love jj but he needs to get it together
by Hawksgirl on Dec 30, 2009 1:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Like I said earlier
This game was winnable. I put no blame on any one person, only the team play at the end. The season is long and has many ups and downs so I can’t be wishy washy and claim the hawks are contenders when they win and a sub-par club when they lose. They’re a winning team period. Until the playoffs start we won’t know the end result of this team.
That being said, A lot of people believe the hawks are good when they get in transition and move the ball to get open shots. What those people don’t say is that if the hawks don’t play more of their bench that style of play is useless. It is pointless to have a run game throughout the game without people taking frequent breaks. When Bob and nique say the hawks need to get in transition, they need to say “where’s Joe Smith?” “where’s Jeff teague?” “where are the fresh guys who can keep this run offense going?” I don’t care how in shape a basketball player you are, there’s no way you can run full speed for 48 minutes.
To me the coach seems to not have confidence in the bench; or maybe not anyone named jamal, zaza, and maybe Mo Evans. I thought with the additions we could go ten deep a night but that might be asking alot. The hawks have aquired three big men in the offseason that aren’t utilized more than 10 minutes a game. With that consistency the hawks can’t beat
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
the lakers, magic, cleveland, or the celtics
that’s what i meant to finish with
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
Win by the jump shot, die by the jump shot. Not a surprise. This has been our identity for years. Were a better team for sure but even good jump shooting teams have up and down nights. We are still on track for 50-54 wins which is what I hoped for going into the season. We will still beat a few good teams and lose to a few bad teams.
Balance watch
Post 11-21
Swing 4-9
Guards 16-39
Stat of the night JJ makes four in a row – than goes 1-9. 5-14 overall. Add Bibby with 1-7 and you see how the night went.
Tonight lets hope they shoot us to victory.
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