Are the Hawks a tough matchup for the Cavs?
by hawksdawgs on Dec 28, 2009 1:53 PM EST
74 comments
During the Pacers game on Saturday night, Dominique Wilkins said many wonderful things. He let out a few whooes, restrained giving Al Horford a much needed "heat check" excuse, and whooed some more. But the item that really caught my ears was his emphatic statement that the Hawks match up great against the Cavs. The confidence seems a bit out of place since Atlanta was thoroughly dominated over four games, which I believe the layman calls "getting swept," in the playoffs last year. Of course in Nique's defense, the Hawks did give Cleveland one of its only 16 losses last year and if not for a questionable LeBron foul call might have made it 17. Plus, the Hawks were crippled in the playoffs. Literally. If crutches were legal, the Hawks would have used them to walk in that series and not for a strategic advantages.
But matching up well is not just about having a player or two another team can't guard. If that was the case, no one would match up well against the Cavs. It is about how a team can hide its weaknesses and flex its strengths. Is Cleveland a team that allows the Hawks to do this? I don't know. Like anything Nique says you have to parse first and distinguish crazy and insightful later.
Mo Williams can drill from beyond the arc, but he only scores 1.7 points close to the basket. Plus, Williams is not much of a distributor only dolling out 4.8 assists per game with a pretty crappy A/TO rate. Basically, Mo Williams is a better offensive version of Mike Bibby. Which if you think about it is the best kind of guy for Mike Bibby. Sure Mike will go under screens and not close out fast enough and that might cost the Hawks a few three pointers, but we will not see a Tony Parker-esque take over.
1:1 advantage: Cavs
Overall advantage: Hawks
Of the Cavs eight losses, West did not play in three of them and played horrible in two others. Secretly, he is kind of the lynch pen for this team any night LeBron does not want to completely take over. When he is on his game, West handles the ball, hits big shots, and plays great defense. Fortunately for the Hawks, Joe Johnson almost doubles him in size. He should be able to finish on him and shoot over him whenever he wants. In some sense, this is the Cavs Lebron/Marvin matchup. West plays with tenacity and if Joe over dribbles, he is going to turn the ball over a lot against Delonte, and if Joe has to move over and guard LBJ some, West could easily put up some nice numbers against Jamal Crawford.
1:1 advantage: Hawks
Overall advantage: Hawks
Marvin Williams vs. LeBron James
For as non-nonchalant as Marvin is, he really seems to get up for playing against Paul Pierce and LBJ. He enjoys the challenge. And a Marvin that does not disappear on the court is a great Marvin whether he puts up a decent stat line or not. Guys that athletic and big make plays when they are involved. For LeBron's part, he has never gone off against the Hawks. Marvin has kept him at the phenomenal level and never let the guy move to transcendent. And honestly, if Marvin can hold James at 28 points, 8 boards, 8 assists. That is a win. Shockingly, that is a win.
1:1 advantage: Cavs
Overall advantage: Cavs.
Josh Smith vs. JJ Hickson/ Anderson Varejao
Josh Smith should dominate. The only thing standing in his way is mental toughness. And Varejao will test it. He will pick up charges on Josh Smith's sprint to the hole. He will flop. He will poke. He will do all the things we love about Zaza only slightly more annoyingly and better. If Josh Smith tries harder at getting back at him with rebounds and dunks and not pouty words and technicals, the Hawks are in a good spot. And unlike in past years where James just locked down Joe in the fourth, LeBron cannot take the challenge of guarding both Josh and Joe if those defensive matchups break down for the Cavs.
Al Horford vs. Shaquille O'Neal/Zydrunas Ilgauskas
A classic case of who imposes their will wins. Horford can run circles around Shaq or pull him out with his jump shot. Shaq can obtain dominating position with his size. Al has quickness Big Z has only read about it eastern European picture books but Ilgauskas can shoot three pointers (?!?) and rebound over Horford without jumping. That being said, no one is talking about all-star births for the Cavs centers. So big Al needs to step up and his teammates need to let him.
1:1 advantage: Push
Overall Advantage: Push
Jamal Crawford vs. Anthony Parker
I don't care if Anthony Parker starts games. And I don't care that Jamal Crawford can go cold. I am taking Jamal Crawford here.
1:1 advantage: Hawks
Overall advantage: Hawks
So there it is. A lot of moving parts, but it is tough to disagree with Nique. Then again only crazy coaches around all-star game time have ever looked at the Cavs as anything but the best player in the league and four above average role players. Atlanta needs three things for success, composure, trust, and prayer. LBJ can win either of these up coming games by himself, but if the Hawks can play five on five for 48 minutes and limit LeBron to playing with the efficiency of just one guy, they should know they have the better five.
In this back to back, the teams match up well. And a sweep by either side is unlikely, but oddly enough, I think the only team that expects to win both is the Hawks.
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I think we match up decently against the cavs. Overall length and athleticism prevents Lebron from making to many highlight plays, which affects the game. The most important thing, which you mentioned is composure. An x factor is if Delonte decides to heckle Joe Johnson then the cavs might be in for a very difficult night. What is different about the cavs is Jamario Moon and anthony parker who are both bigger than Delonte West.
For the Hawks to win they are going to need to frustrate the Cavs and when Lebron tries to takeover put him on the floor. Over and Over.
Unfortunately
I’m inclined to think individual matchups aren’t really the keys here. The question will be whether the Hawks can do anything to get the ball inside against Shaq and Varejao, knowing that bulk with feet like those two have has been a problem in the past (see Dwight Howard). If the Cavs can rely on two or three very large inside players to keep the Hawks shooting from the perimeter, it means LeBron gets to close down the lane area from Joe Johnson by his big ol’ LeBron self. And that means no open threes for anyone.
And that’s just on offense. On defense, the Hawks have to figure out a way to stop Cleveland from pounding it inside and from crushing them on the defensive boards.
They couldn’t do any of this against Orlando, the team Cleveland is now most like since the additions of Shaq and Vince to their respective teams. Orlando and Cleveland almost mirror one another.
Obviously the Hawks have a speed advantage. But can they get enough rebounds and steals to score on fast breaks and keep the Cavs from scoring on every trip? THey will havce to overplay the passing lanes very aggressively on D because Shaq and Varejao can’t really back-cut and denying the entry pass is the only way to stop the Cavs in the paint. That’s a big issue, I think.
Teague would be really useful here if he were playing well because he could penetrate on the dribble drive and bend Cleveland’s defense that way. But without that, how will the Hawks score in the half-court? JJ has NO advantage against this team. Shaq is a poor defender when he has to get to the upper part of the lane—he won’t come out—so maybe Crawford’s ball handling can enable penetration for easy shots in the paint.
Looking forward to this….I hope the Hawks have figured something out from the Orlando debacle, but I fear the brute strength of the Cavs. They shoved the half-court game right down the Lakers’ throats the other day. We won’t beat them that way.
We were no match for their size last year
and they only got bigger with Shaq and they have a much improved Hickson.
I hope we can get a home/home split with them this week, but see the Cavs getting a sweep.
Hawks still match up terribly with Cleveland and Orlando, but if Atlanta draws Boston in the playoffs, the Hawks will beat the Celts. They are the one team in the East that we match up great with.
I am also concerned with Bogut and Milwaukee. By playoff time, Bogut will likely be on IR, but with him, the Bucks present quite a challenge to Atlanta.
the cavs are def. bigger
but the Hawks are so much more athletic on the front line that is just as big of an advantage. See the Hawks vs. the Blazers.
plus, in the three healthy games, the Hawks were not killed on the boards last year.
It's only partly about rebounds...it's also about shot quality.
Last year Phoenix shot 52 and 55 percent in their two games against the Hawks; Hawks shot 42% in both. Against the Magic this year and last the Hawks outshot them only in the one game they won. I don’t think the Blazers’ big men really qualify as being distinctly girth-y or physical (really, few do— Dwight Howard, Yao, Shaq, Duncan are about all thatt are big, physical, and mobile at the same time).
Lebron has never gone off against the Hawks....?
I was at game three of the semi-finals last year and Lebron most definitely went off.
my bad
was not considering the playoffs because of the injuries.
neither was i
literally everyone was injured.
it should also be said that I don’t consider 32 8 and 8 going off for LBJ whereas for anyone else I would.
they were outplayed in the playoffs
The Hawks were outplayed. LBJ did whatever he wanted to. Orlando had the key to winning. SIZE!!!! The Hawks have size now. I hope Wood throws every big we have at the Cavs. Treat this like a playoff game and send a message that if we meet in the ECF we can play with them. The game is going to be Josh, Marvin, and Al’s game to win.
We're in agreement on several points....
However, I feel our biggest obstacle against Cleveland last year during the regular season and the playoffs was our lack of confidence. Confidence goes a looooooong way in the NBA. I think these guys approach every game now like it’s a winnable one. Surely, the media will give the edge to Cleveland because of LeBron. If you remove LeBron from the equation, who else would we fear on that squad? Shaq? Not hardly. If you can keep him out of the low post and run his big ass to death, he’ll be on the bench most of the night. The Hawks need to keep their composure and play their game. They need to dictate the tempo of the game and don’t allow LBJ to be dunking and sh@# in our house. Smoove needs to show up and not let Varejo frustrate him. Hell, he frustrates me and I’m watching from home. I could live with us splitting the two games, between the home teams, but I fully expect us to show up in both. Gone are the days that we have to wonder which team will show up. ( I think). Go Hawks!!!
Cavs fan here
First refer to the Phoenix game about “running Shaq’s big ass to death”…and good luck keeping him out of the low post now that Mike Brown seems to have FINALLY abandoned his “teach an old Shaq new tricks” folly…LeBron is no longer all dunks and drives…he’s posting more and slashing to the hole without the ball…and oh yeah..ask Pau Gasol about Shaq’s “defensive presence”
This is NOT to say the Cav’s will waltz off with a W and not break a sweat..as a fan, I’m more afraid of the Hawks than Orlando, Boston, or LA…But I think you really have to look closely at the Phoenix game to see what the Cavs are capable of against a run and gun style offense….granted Phoenix probably wouldn’t recognize defense if it sat on them, but the fallacy of the Cavs being slow because of Shaq and Z is just that.
Should be a very interesting pair of games and a good gauge of Mike Brown’s ability to adapt on a game by game basis…Good Luck
by cavslandrocks on Dec 28, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
you raise a great point
outside of an LBJ “moment.”
this game has so many great matchups it is going to be how teams adjust to the ones that work in a certain teams favor that make the difference.
confidence is huge which was basically the point of the post. yes the Cavs have the best player in the league, but so did LA in 06-07. When you realize you are better outside of a great performance, you can counter an mvp level player more times than not.
Confidence is overrated.
It’s the NBA. If anyone isn’t confident they need a new gig. Jason Collins, I’m looking at you.
i respect the humor
but laugh at the meat.
that means playoff experience does not matter. knowing you can win. believing you can win is huge.
Confidence is key when there’s the possibility of respecting your opponent too much. When you look at Shaq lining up against you and know that he’s among the best ever to play the game, it’s certainly important to have enough confidence to realize you have an advantage. It would be too easy to let his size intimidate you inside when the Hawks really do need to attack.
So hopefully, the Hawks can use these two games to build some confidence for future match-ups.
This is what NBA is about
These will be great games. Last year playoffs are not important, because the Hawks are different, as are the Cavs. Hawks not only have added Jamal, but maturity of Josh and Horford makes them stronger and they need their touches.
I agree with several others, big muscle men hurt Hawks. The reason being we lose the half court inside scoring of Horford who is just not as big as the seven footers. Yes he is fast, but, i doubt he can overcome the height disadvantage.
Point guard position will be a tough battle. Mo Williams is a very good player. There was a time Bibby would have been able to play him one on one. Not any longer, too many miles on those wheels. Regardless, a good match-up, edge to Cavs.
As for JJ and Lebron, i wonder if Lebron guards JJ. If he does, we could be in some trouble, and Jamal becomes the key. LeBron is an incredible defensive player if he decides he wants to play defense.
Does addition of Shaq help or hurts the Cavs. I think in some ways it hurts the free flowing LeBron style, because Shaq is slow. He also misses free throws. On the other hand, on the defensive side he is still a presence.
I also fear Cavs and Orlando more than Celtics, though I think we can hanfle Orlando unless they make the threes like crazy as they did in that first game. My prediciton, we win at home but tight game, we lose at Cavs place not as tight a game. Remember, Cavs are playing best ball in the league right now. Go Hawks
Weight & strength disadvantage too.
That’s why Samuel Dalembert, Bosh, Bogut aren’t problems but Shaq and Howard are.
i certainly get what you are saying
but i think few people are taking Anderson/Shaq over Josh/Al for even one game this year (outside of Howard and LA), but Shaq is very far from Howard these days.
not saying the size and strength is not a bid deal. I call it a push in the post. Still, the Hawks have the talent to take advantage.
We'll have to agree to disagree
as I think the “push” will only happen if the Hawks get some transition points. The players individually are advantage hawks, IMO, but the oft-noted the athleticism advantage is mashed into the floor if it’s a half-court game.
Just sayin’, since Gasol, Odom, and Bynum got squashed like they did—and that’s a very athletic group of bigs—we’re going to have to take note and prepare differently.
This is the one game I would possibly like to see some RandMo
Against Phoenix last year, Randmo was the only Hawk who managed to to keep Shaq farther than 2 feet from the basket. Hopefully Woody just Bibby/Horford pick n’ rolls Shaq to the bench but since that’s doubtful, but I wouldn’t mind seeing what Randmo can do against the big fella.
Overall though, I’m excited and a little scared. It’s not often you see a home and home against two contenders like this. Will it be a belated NBA Christmas present or lump of coal?
Hawks definitely have the personnell to be a problem match-up for the Cavs
It’s really a question of whether they use it properly.
Their frontcourt has a few obvious advantages over ours-namely size and strength. But Varejao cannot match Josh’s athleticism, and Al Horford has the range with his jumper to draw Shaq out of the paint. Without any help, Josh Smith should be driving and finishing as much as often as we can find opportunities for him. But if we’re running post-up plays for Josh and Horford, we’re just playing into their strength. And we really have to limit the ISO Joe plays in this game-if he dribbles too long, he’s going to end up with LeBron trapping on him and creating turnovers.
We should see a difference in our defense of LeBron with a healthy Marvin now. It’s not that he’s going to just lock-down on LBJ; nobody in the league does that. But it puts JJ and Josh Smith in positions where they’re providing help on James instead of trying to guard him, and both of those guys are big and athletic enough to disrupt LBJ with the help defense where they’re just helpless trying to guard him.
Of course, we’ll probably just switch on every screen, so Bibby will be caught guarding him anytime Cleveland wants an easy bucket. I kind of wish we had to Mario West to just come in and jump around in LeBron’s face for 30 seconds and screw up his chi.
And, of course, I feel like it definitely plays in the Hawks’ favor to get up and down. It probably won’t bother the Cavs’ backcourt, but it will tax anyone in their frontcourt to keep up with Horf and Josh Smith. Plus, the transition offense is probably the only way the Hawks’ shooters will find open looks, since there’s not a lot of motion in our halfcourt offense (Ironically, I think we’re running the “motion” offense). Cleveland is tenacious about closing out on shooters, and teams just don’t shoot a good % from 3 against them.
Here’s the way I see it…the Cavs have the best defense in the league in the paint-points allowed wise, and are top five in both FG% allowed and 3pt% allowed…they also have the two best 3 pt shooters and Mo is top 10…the only way the Hawks can hope to pull it out is to have some seriously perfect passing schemes…
I’m not trying to be a d!ck here but to say the Hawks have total mismatches on any of the Cavs players is to ignore the fact that they lost 3-4 last season…And the new guys….Did any of you watch Moon and Parker hold Kobe to under 35% shooting?..You can talk all day about confidence but to base a game plan on that with no plan B, etc. is a sure debacle in the making….The Cavs have pulled that one a few times this year and paid for it….and please don’t delude yourselves into thinking that Shaq won’t be looking to make a statement the first chance he gets…offensively AND defensively..He’s been in foul trouble every game since the one IN Houston and still gets at least his 10 and 8
Remember that it didn’t help Phoenix one bit to get up and down…The Cavs “Big, old, slow, and unathletic” front court held them to 20 pts below their average on the second night of a back to back…..If the Hawks want to make this a game, then they can’t discount any player as being less than their equal….The Cavs are probably hoping that the Hawks double LeBron every time he gets a touch….Having said all of this, if the Cavs revert to their 1 on 5 offense, the Hawks should be able to out score them
by cavslandrocks on Dec 29, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
from coach speak
yes go in as equals.
but joe johnson has the advantage on your two guards. period.
and josh smith has the advantage on anderson period.
not saying they won’t have bad games. but if LBJ should 35% against us, I am not going to say how he should of thought of Marvin as an equal.
Holding LeBron to 35%?…THAT would take a constant double coupled with a VERY off night…be realistic and Hope for 45% (he shot 60% with Battier draped all over him Sunday) so one of the Cavs sharpshooters isn’t always open…that or he’ll get it in to BIG slow Shaq, unathletic flopping Andy, or high flying D-league Moon..If Woodson approaches these games the way you have here, it will be two losses…respecting the other team’s ability is NOT fearing them…..until the games have been played one player is only better than another on paper…FOR THAT GAME…I’m NOT saying Atlanta doesn’t have some very talented players and some seemingly obvious match up advantages, but the Cavs have played and beaten EVERY team mentioned as a true title contender except Boston (the only one the Hawks HAVE defeated) all teams that had “match up advantages” over the Cavs….as a matter of fact, the Cavs have played one of the toughest schedules so far this season….and to the guy who said it’s guaranteed that Josh will posterize Varejao…just keep thinking that way, and hopefully Josh will too..I’ll take the W over a highlight reel ANY day….As I close here I see a couple new posts about “old slow and clumsy”..ask Phoenix-as run and gun as there is-how that benefited them….good luck tonight and tomorrow
by cavslandrocks on Dec 29, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Stop projecting on us
Noone is saying your team isn’t good, and you’ve said the words “old, slow, and clumsy” way more than anyone else has.
by thirdfALCON on Dec 29, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
the hawks offense
i point out, is not the run and gun offense of the suns…..at all. It’s good you defend your team but remember that you’re in hawks land. Prepare to have your team roasted after their loss
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
IF they lose, they deserve to be roasted….after all they are playing better AS A TEAM than than 29 others at this point…I’m hoping that fan who was chirping at LeBron in Game 3 of the playoff series last year shows up…47 points would sure look nice again
by cavslandrocks on Dec 29, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Dude, seriously......
We get that you support your team, but up until VERY recently, the Cavs haven’t been playing great basketball. I’ve read some of your blogs. What happened to: “Fire Coach Brown! Shaq is too slow! LBJ will surely leave next summer! Mo Williams is inconsistent! Parker is streaky at best!” These are quotes from Cav fans. Now all of sudden you have a win streak going and you’re best there ever was. We’re so glad you beat LA and Orlando, but shouldn’t you be expected to beat these teams since you have the so-called “best player on the planet” on your team? Coach Brown is a lot like our Woody. Give LBJ the ball and let him dribble, dribble, dribble….pray for a foul call. Hardly a game plan.
I’ve qualified ALL of my comments here with “right now” or “for this game”…I’ve also been very courteous….something I’m NOT receiving in return…do THOSE rules ONLY APPLY TO OUTSIDERS??I’ve shown your team nothing but respect and been attacked like I’m on a Lakers blog…Ba]n me for this comment..I don’t care I came here for a serious discussion (something I’m obviously NOT going to find) NOT to be told to shut up
by cavslandrocks on Dec 29, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Not in so many words and perhaps I took it the wrong way, but when almost EVERY logical, factual argument is met with “seriously dude” or the same tired negative comments (that so far have PROVEN to be untrue) about players and coaches…I get the impression that comments of a positive nature about anyone not on the Hawks are unwelcome…thus the implied “shut up”..If your best argument is to be negative about another team/coach/player, then you have no argument…just a very narrow self serving opinion…convince me with FACTS that the Hawks are the better team and I’ll gladly listen…hit me with “our coach is better than yours” or “one of our players will posterize yours” or that your team’s offense isn’t based on an up tempo game, and I have a very difficult time taking you seriously…I’m not asking for an apology, I came here to talk basketball
by cavslandrocks on Dec 29, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
How about this...
The Hawks will overplay the passing lanes and create steals and fast breaks for points. They have won all year by shooting more than the opposition (note Hollinger’s recent article on most efficient offenses); that’s been largely done through not turning the ball over (they still won’t) and offensive rebounding (Cavs will probably limit that).
So the way the Hawks will take down the Cavs in the first game will be by playing aggressive interior defense that denies the ball to Shaq and perhaps even LeBron on the wing. The Cavs will get the occasional lob and dunk but will be largely relegated to outside shots, which they won’t make, because the Hawks’ switching and overplaying will quicken the pace and get the Cavs away from their-half-court sets. hawks will win the fast-break points handily and otherwise rely on Jamal Crawford to break down the Cavs’ half-court D with dribble penetration into the 12-ft area for short uncontested J’s because Shaq won’t come out from the basket to help (ask Kobe about this issue). JC scores 30 and leads the Hawks in scoring.
Hawks win the ATL game by 7.
Cheers to that!
Can’t wait to watch us do it!
Keeping the ball out of Shaq’s hands will definitely help…look for Cleveland to go to him early…I like our chances when he gets a couple early scores…Shaq’s biggest problem right now is holding on to the ball…lots of unforced turnovers…and I don’t want to see Shaq coming out to contest at the foul line unless it’s on drives like the charges that Kobe thought were fouls…who covers LeBron when he posts?..neither Artest nor Battier could stop him when he did….over playing the passing lanes will only work if the Cavs can’t get untracked shooting jumpers/threes…the switching by the Hawks works more in the Cavs favor…when they’ve had to move the ball to score this year, their passing has been at least as good as last year..The only problem I see with the Hawks trying to dominate the paint on D is the constant parade to the line by LeBron…He’s shooting almost 80% now so it would be a poor choice to foul him a lot…not to mention foul trouble for the Hawks…as far as speed and fast break points AGAIN..look to the Phoenix game…The lineup of Andy at the 5 and LeBron at the 4 completely negated their up tempo transition game…Before you answer that Verajao is garbage, is Amr’e better? I say yes….but Andy (and Hickson for that matter) still was better in the transition…one last thing…who covers Z if he is connecting from outside and what does that do to overplaying the passing lanes?
by cavslandrocks on Dec 29, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
We have two big man (Josh Smith and Al Horford) that are better than any of your big men, and two guards (Joe and Jamal) that are better than any of your guards.
Not being negative about your players, but Shaq is nowhere near the player that he once was, Illguaskas is a corpse and Varejoa is a role player that brings little more than rebounding and defense. As for your guards, Mo Williams is not effective when he isn’t hitting jumpshots, and Delonte, and Anthony Parker are role players. You have far and away the best player on either team, but we have more good players and better depth.
Defensively, the Cavs do a great job of challenging shots, and rebounding the ball, but they foul a lot and don’t create many turnovers. They are very very good overall, but while I know you seem to have a sore spot for people calling your team old, their stats don’t exactly reflect a spry team.
Offensively, they are also very good. They take (and make) good shots, but are average when it comes to taking care of the ball, and forcing fouls (old). They are among the League’s worst when it comes to offensive rebounding (again a stat that old players don’t often do well at).
So basically, if the Hawks can stop Lebron from winning this game by himself, win the rebounding battle and create a decent amount ofturnovers, we should win this game.
I do the “old” thing mockingly…Shaq, Z, and Parker ARE old in basketball years…but they aren’t usually humiliated by anyone consistently…The Mike Brown thing is a bigger sore point for me…the guy isn’t great but he’s NOT the worst either.. and the reason he won COY was a guy named LeBron…but then again that could be true for ANY team he played on…Mike Brown’s biggest weakness is willing his players to do his bidding and making the crucial in game adjustments in a timely manner….but give the guy credit..The Cavs are winning games without LeBron being the main focus all game every game…they maintain and even extend leads with LeBron on the bench…so if the Cavs are just “LeBron and a bunch of overachieving role players”, someone on the coaching staff HAS to be doing something right
by cavslandrocks on Dec 29, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Cause your being a troll…
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 29, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
You shouldn't dismiss what advantages the Hawks do have
We’re either first or second in the league in points in the paint (not sure exactly where right now). That’s largely on the strength of an athletic frontcourt and transition scoring, which are not strength’s of Cleveland.
Hawks match up better against teams like Boston and Denver, but I think they can create as many problems for Cleveland as anyone else in the league. Of course, the Hawks are very, very good at failing to properly utilize their strengths (Al Horford has the 6th highest TS% in the league and only a 16.6 USG%!), so it may just come down to which team does a better job of exerting their will.
I think these Hawks have made great strides over last year’s, and not just in terms of health. These two games will provide a great measuring stick for that.
Expect a win tonight
While i have respeect for Cavs, and LeBron is currently playing at the highest rate in NBA, i still expect us to win the game in ATL. The Cavs have not had to face the furious pace that the Hawks will throw at them. And if they think they can stop us by stopping JJ, they will be surprised. With Jamal and Marvin and Josh and Horford all scoring, it will be a tough game for the Cavs. Cavs are definitely superior in point guard, and whereever position the King plays. I am not sure their big old slow clumsy centers can slow us down. Go Hawks
“The Cavs have not had to face the furious pace that the Hawks will throw at them”—like, say, at Phoenix and LA last week, both of which they won, btw? First team to win in Phx this year?
I hate being the naysayer here, and I really want the Hawks to win as always, but all this talk from many Hawks fans is just unrealistic. The Hawks have proven very little except that they can pound bad teams most of the time but still can’t play a good team on the road or Orlando at home. I still can’t get over how the Hawks could be first in the Hollinger rankings while having been hammered at Denver, at LA, and at home against Orlando.
Even though their record is not as good at this point, I think the Cavs are better than last year…and the matchups are NOT in our favor. I don’t think it’s impossible to win. Just not likely.
It's funny that you're describing the Hawks
the same way the media described the Cavs last year. They beat up on inferior teams, but fall to the superior ones. Best I can recall, we beat Boston, Utah, Denver, and Portland……I don’t think they’re inferior at all.
There are six, maybe eight, teams in the league this year.
1st tier: Boston, Orlando, Cleveland, LA.
2nd tier: Atlanta, San Antonio (maybe), Dallas, Denver.
Hawks are 3-3 against that group with about, I think -19 point differential overall. That is NOT GOOD. I think the Hawks take Boston this year; the others, I’m not so sure.
BTW, Utah and Portland are good teams, but not real contenders. It remains to be seen if the Hawks are a legit themselves. Based on how they have played against the other top teams so far I’m not encouraged that they’re there quite yet.
I will agree with that assessment
I thought we were talking about these next two games….not championship contention. Touche’! Go Hawks!
Not sure you're being fair to the Hawks
Two wins over Portland while they had Oden were impressive, especially in Portland.
They’ve won in Boston. They’ve won in Dallas.
Certainly, they’ve got their problems. They lost to the freaking Knicks, AT HOME! And they completely failed to show up for a big game in Denver. And it’s probably not good that they’ve had so many easy victories because this team has problems remaining focused. But they do belong in that top tier of NBA teams right now.
I doubt any of us believe that the Hawks are sure to win against Cleveland. But I know that they can. The Hawks have some strengths that line-up with the Cavs’ weaknesses. Certainly, they also have strengths that line-up with our weaknesses, but we match up much better against the Cavs than we do the Lakers, for example, or the Magic.
I'm with you on all of that
except maybe the last part. I think having Shaq makes them a tough matchup for the Hawks, as tough as the Lakers or the Magic.
But I know the Hawks can beat anyone on a given day if they play the right way.
I don't necessarily agree
Shaq’s size is a big advantage over Horford in close to the basket, but Horford is very skilled. He can hit the jumper out to 12 feet at a very high rate, and that should draw Shaq out of the paint. If Shaq remains in the paint, we need to living off Horford jumpers in this game. If Shaq gets out of the paint to guard Horford, Al and Josh should be driving.
What’s interesting is that, while we see Horford occasionally have some trouble against bigger centers, his numbers don’t really reflect that. He can get his rebounds when he’s facing off against bigger bodies.
Well Hawks are still maturing
rbubp, i share with you the frustration of Hawks not winning some of the games on the road we should win (Charlotte, Chicago, …). But that is a maturity cycle thing. We are winning more than last year on the road now, and we are defending the bird cage like the Hawks (note two games we lose, the other teams NY and Orlando went on crazy shooting streaks). With that said, we also struggle against big strong centers, and I believe Cavs are at their currentl maturity point, a better team than us, why i said that they can probably win easier than we can at bird cage. But I don’t think they are that much better, and though Shaq is one of the great centers of all time, he is but a shadow of his glory days. As for Suns and even the GREAT Lakers, they play fast, not furious. We have the double headed beast of Josh and Horford who do play as seven footers. I know you are a great fan, I am hoping Hawks make us proud tonight, even if we lose tomorrow to a legit championship level team.
1st it takes Bibby and JJ 12 seconds to set up our 1/2 court offense. PHX tries to shoot by 7. I agree you are a very serious point threat and the Hawks are lousy about guarding the 3 pt line.
Our fast break opportunities will mainly rely on our big’s out running yours. For example while Josh and Al run from one end to the other Bibby can run from top of key to top of key. Bibby passes well cause he’s rested. But no – we are not PHX.
If JJ plays ISO and gets into a ego scoring contest with Labron – you will likely win both games. JJ is a great passer and if he plays team ball and feeds our bigs we can not only be dangerous but can beat anybody. If we can force your defense to collaspe we can also be deadly from the three. If Clev turns us into a jump shooting team it will be long nights for the Hawks.
To me ya’ll are treading water compared with last year. That is not a bad thing. The Hawks have closed the gap some and have improved . Is it enough? I don’t know. Thats why we play the games. By playoff time we should close even more. Will it be enough? I don’t know.
As a Hawks fan I like the trend though.
by RivBoatGambler on Dec 29, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Shaq=Dwight........ WHAT???????
I’m tired of people comparing Shaq to howard. They’re not even close to being at the same level. Shaq is old, overrated, can’t jump, and I think Al can out rebound him.
P.S. Josh Smith WILL posterize Verejao before the night is over
When Al and Shaq are pushing against each other to get the rebound,
Shaq wins. Why don’t you people go break out the tapes from the Phoenix games last year? Of course Shaq is not Howard. But when your center is undersized it doesn’t matter that much that he’’s not Howard.
Horford missed both games against Phoenix last year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290113021
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290125001
But his bigger counterpart, dear Zaza, had 11 fouls and did not play 20 minutes in either game.
I'm with rbubp at the top...
Individual matchups mean squat if both teams are playing team offense and defense. Lest we forget that we’re playing at home. The game is much more psychological than physical and the hawks have a definite edge at home. The cavs have lost 8 just like the hawks and those 8 losses the cavs had weren’t all against the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, and Denver.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
this should be a good one
Jj definently isn’t the main player to shut down. our confidence at home is so huge that we don’t expect to lose and lots of teams give up after the 3rd quarter(except knicks Orlando and Houston which was a grinder). I feel we have a good chance against them. with jamal speed and hopefully teague and mo get some action, we are a tough matchup. their bench is my worry. Daniel Gibson etc. woody needs to play a mirror scheme, soda try to match up to them. play randmo and Collins. is Joe smith back?
by Hawksgirl on Dec 29, 2009 11:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I am waiting for my flight to Cleveland right now in BWI.
Tonight we’ll be watching on local Cavs TV. Tomorrow, I enter the belly of the beast. Do I go with the Horford road jersey? Or do I go all out and try to get on TV in my Dominique road throwback?
Either way, the Hawks need to win at least one of these games. I think it will be tonight because they are rested and they’ll be up for it. If we’re not, I hope you all have your foam fingers ready to throw on the court!
If Bibby gets open a lot and we get Good Josh and keep Horf out of foul trouble, I think we’ll be in very good shape tonight!
GO HAWKS!
Let's see......
Throwback Nique or Horf roadie….hmmmm that’s a hard decision, but two greats to choose from! Be careful out there tomorrow. Unlike Philips, I don’t visitors are welcomed. Lol!!
Someone remind me, I've blocked this out
The Cavs were running the immediate double on JJ in the playoffs, weren’t they? Several teams are using that, and JJ’s reluctance to give up the ball gets us in trouble, but I can’t remember for certain if Cleveland was one of the teams doing it.
Yes
Cleveland was essentially forcing us to try and beat them with anyone other than JJ, but JJ had other plans.
"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC
It'll be interesting to see if that's still on
I don’t know if it’s good or bad for us if it is. JJ still seems determined to dribble through every double team, despite how well his supporting cast has been.
I’m excited to see, though.
Oh, come one, CoCo
—join in the fray! You have so much to offer! :)
Okay
well I think the Cavs and Magic are the worst matchups for the Hawks. I don’t know why I feel like the team (Celtics) that has actually won a championship would be the easiest for us to beat, but I do. I do not like the Cavs. I want the Hawks to win both of these games. Jamal has had some really good games against them and hopefully he’ll have one tonight. If they’re hell bent on not letting Joe beat them, then he needs to be hell bent on passing the ball to one of our other highly capable players. They need to speed up the game, especially when Shaq is on the floor. I hope Josh comes out flying all over the arena tonight. Unfortunately, due to doctor’s orders I have to watch it from home instead of live and in person, but I’ll be there in spirit. Go Hawks!
On paper
I actually don’t like the Boston match-up. But the way the games play out, I’ve decided we do have a favorable match-up. I think it’s largely because Ray Allen doesn’t provide much resistance defensively, and JJ isn’t in the paint enough for KG or Perkins to be a factor. But still, Rondo is the type of guy who should go to town against Bibby, and Josh Smith isn’t at his best against active 4s.
However, i do like the Cavs match-up on paper. They’ve got the best player on the planet, but he plays the same position as our best defender, and Josh Smith is as good as there is in terms of help defense. Their PG doesn’t drive off the dribble, and Varejao isn’t enough of an offensive player to keep Josh bogged down in man defense. But then again, I don’t play the games. I can’t even shoot socks into the hamper at a decent percentage.
The C's are just not very athletic
and they are also not very bulky or physical. Essentially we match up with them well because the teams are quite similar but the Hawks are faster and quicker. In the past the C’s were smarter and more disciplined to make up for that, but not so much now.
Home Court
The biggest thing for me is the impact home court advantage can have on your youngins like hortford.
Phillips arena can be rockingly loud (grew up there had the privilege of seeing a few motumbo finger wags) but as was the case last year in the playoffs, an early big lead silenced the crowd and took away your home court advantage and the cavs are right up at the top of the league in terms of big first quarters. But if Atlanta weathers the storm and keeps it close or maintains a lead throughout, and it comes down to the wire I think the crowd noise and the electric environment will swing the game decidedly into the HAwks’ favour
Exciting game. JJ is a phenomenal player to watch and i enjoy watchin the hawks whenever i get a chance
Heres to a well played game
Go CAVS!
by apod on Dec 29, 2009 4:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The Hawks need some sense of urgency
when playing elite teams, or they’ll NEVER earn the respect of the top teams in the league. Yes, the Hawks got into a shooting slump in the 4th, but so did the Cavs!! The difference is that the Cavs didn’t let that get to them and continued to play complete team ball, eventually pulling away for the win!
As big a fan I am of the Hawks, Cleveland is the one team that has Atlanta’s card and no matter how you try make the argument of "oh, this player wasn’t on his game" or "he needs to work on things in the offseason", the end result is that the Cavs have won 6 straight against the Hawks and the Hawks aren’t doing anything about it.
Before the game, I was on the Hawks Blog and this one as well, and I saw all the post regarding the Hawks being healthy and this team is a different and improved team from last year……same results, Cavs win!
It’s like the Hawks don’t have the killer instinct to win. The only player that had that killer instinct was Jamal Crawford. I saw constant drives to the hole by Cleveland small guards all night and bad perimeter defense. As I stated before, to beat a team, you contain the star and SHUT DOWN the role players! The role players outhustled and outplayed the Hawks last night and that’s what made the difference.
Josh Smith IS a whiner AND a passionate player. He just whines a little more that forcing his will on the court. JJ is a good player, but streaky shooter. He started the game off great, but was non-existent til the aggresive drive to the hole in the 4th quarter. He needs to be aggressive for 48 minutes, not 12. I could sit here and type pages of things why the Hawks aren’t elite, and I am a TRUE die hard fan of my Hawks, but i’m a realist as well and will call it as I see it. The Cavs have Atlanta’s card and that’s the only team I hope we don’t see til the Eastern Conference finals because clearly, they are too much for the Hawks physically and mentally.
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Dec 30, 2009 10:57 AM EST reply actions
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