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Is Al Horford playing out of position or just creating a new one?

As soon as Al Horford came into the league, he was labeled an "undersized center" or a "power forward playing out of position." For people in the Hawks know, it was no big deal. We understood Josh Smith could not guard athletic threes or shoot well enough from the outside to play the small forward position. We knew Zaza made for a perfect backup center and a horribly annoying starting one. Horford had to play center. On the Hawks team, Al was a center. Debating whether he should or not have been in an ideal world was to have a conversation about the impossible.

And while the "what ifs" sprang up from time to time, Al has been able to spend the first two plus years of his NBA career adjusting to playing against bigger guys without the pressure of expectations of domination. After all, Horford was out of position. Could you really expect 20 and 10 by his second year? But Al did not bide his time under this protection. He has learned how to fight for position, box out, and use his athleticism to block shots and beat players to their spots.

Through Horford's first two years, he unceremoniously did the little things to make up for his strategic disadvantage. Woody forced Al to tread water and Al was damn good at it. He consistently put up average numbers at an incredibly efficient pace rate. It felt like a win for the Hawks. Efficient survival is all we asked for. 

Star-divide

This year is different though. Al is a different player, a more skilled player, a more comfortable player. I look at the schedule, game after game, and there are only two teams that have a clear cut advantage at the center position, Orlando and Los Angeles. Yet those guys are not "regular" centers. If you hold out for an Andrew Bynum or Dwight Howard, you are holding out for a Magic Johnson. They are players that have a unique combination of size and athleticism. They are not redefining the position, but they certainly do not define the norm. And even with that, six years ago people questioned whether Dwight was a center or power forward (don't get me started on the Tim Duncan thing). For years, centers were Shaqs. Maybe not as good as Shaq (ok, definitely not as good as Shaq), but they were 7 footers pushing toward 300 lbs.

Today, outside of the two names mentioned, Al Horford can dominate anyone by that description. The Roy Hibberts of the world do not scare the Hawks. Do people hope to see future Erick Dampier's and Chris Kaman's in their young players? No. They want guys that will fight for boards and get other bigs in foul trouble but still be athletic enough to play the pick and roll. This league is becoming increasingly a team defense league. You don't need one guy to shut down Dwight Howard. It is impossible for one guy to shut down Howard anyway. Just because Al can't do it, does not make him a center.

Right now, Horford has a PER above 20. He leads the team in win shares, shoots 57% from the field, actually makes his free throws, can shut down Greg Oden's and switch onto point guards. Shoot, he can lead fast breaks like a point guard. If Horford's usage was not below most almost every starter (and even his own backup) in the league, who knows what his offensive stats would be. These days Horford is more than survival, he is a borderline all-star. And as some centers increasingly are moving outside the paint (Andrea Bargnani and Mehmet Okur) having an undersized guy who will battle inside but can guard outside might be the best of both worlds. So with apologies to Mr. Howard, what does the future of the center position look like in the NBA? It might just be the power forward with a seven footers mentality.

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Bravo!

Al deserves some recognition for his accomplishments. Analyst always refer to Al as being the “undersized center” playing out of his natual position. What they fail to mention is while undersized, Mr. Horford in a true professional. He gives 100% nightly. He wreaks havoc on more traditional centers because more times than not he’s quicker and has developed a sweet mid range jumper that pulls the defender outside the paint. His rebounding skills and his passing abilities are above average and in transition he can leave his man in the dust. I could go on and on about this kid. When he doesn’t agree with a call, he respectfully disagrees. He’s up on the sidelines cheering his teammates on when he’s out of the game. I love it!!! Let’s just say he’s the Quiet General for the Hawks.

by dstdeelite on Dec 15, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions  

Good post. Horford is a very good 4.5 who could be even better if Woody and his teammates used him more in the offense.

by redwards95 on Dec 15, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions  

New Fan Post

about Josh and Al’s All Star chances. Check it out when you get a minute. I included a poll this time!

by Co Co on Dec 15, 2009 12:11 PM EST reply actions  

You Better Recognize!

Those Hawks fans who think Al Horford is not equipped for the center position must not remember that the runner up for rookie of the year 2008 was playing center when he earned that honor.

Runner up for ROY, on the rookie team, sophomore team, and NBA practice squad-somebody recognizes what Al brings to the Hawks as a center.

by DPhenomenal1 on Dec 15, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions  

Creating a new position

Most definitely. Great post and I agree 100%. The Boss!!!

"Big Ten can have this challenge. Duke loses, we all win..."
-Marcus Ginyard, G - UNC

by Jesse28 on Dec 15, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

Rather, reverting back to the way the 5 is supposed to be played

Before the era of the seven footers, and on a lot of high school and college teams currently, the 4 and 5 are basically interchangeable on the block. The 2 and 3 on the wings and the point running the show. Horford’s and Josh’s style and abilities mesh well with Woodson’s “system” of team oriented play. This is much more enjoyable to watch and more interesting than feed the ball to Shaq/Dwight inside/outside crap. Horford on most other NBA teams would be considered what the hawks fans complain about. But we play a slightly different type of ball and it suits us well.

by sdjpark on Dec 15, 2009 2:12 PM EST reply actions  

great post

Al is definently creating his own position and evolving into one of the best

by Hawksgirl on Dec 15, 2009 2:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Al's biggest obstacle

is his teammates unwillingness to feature him in the offense.

by Co Co on Dec 15, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions  

Awesome post. Horford has been FANTASTIC this season.

by Vic De Zen on Dec 15, 2009 4:46 PM EST reply actions  

Al is great but ....

Al is one of the best moves of old Billy before he moved on. But let’s get real, the only reason he can compete at the rate he does, other than having a lion heart, is because of Josh. We in Atlanta, tend to send Josh’s weaknesses and not his strength. Working alongside Josh, makes having a player like Horford work. Otherwise, it won’t be just Howard that will eat Atlanta’s center alive, but Perkins in Boston, the best in Memphis (even though he is a baby), Oden when he is healthy, Shaq, Dunca, and many other big men. Having Josh along, we have a two headed beast. So while Horford is a GREAT player, the reason he can compete at a center position, has to do with playing alongside Josh. Wake up people, give credit to Josh where credit is due. He leads the league in blocks and intimidation. He makes Horford work at center, of-course, Hordford is a man, so all the credit to him also.

by ATLpaul on Dec 15, 2009 7:33 PM EST reply actions  

josh helps everyone. no doubt.

but josh refused to rebound for 2/3rds of last season and shot tons of jumpers. not sure how that helped Al last year.

Josh certainly helps but that does not take away from Al. Like I said in the post, the league is full of help defense. That is nothing new or different from most of the centers in the league. Do you think Perkins gets help from Garnett? However, very few centers can do what Al can do on defense on his own, guard the pick and roll, switch on screen, step outside on the jumper and bang with the big guys even though he gives up 40 lbs. Not saying he is perfect, but he ain’t propped up by Josh either.

And Al outplayed a healthy Oden twice this year.

by hawksdawgs on Dec 15, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd be inclined to argue more that Al helps Josh.

It would be interesting to note the team’s record minus Horford (he did go out briefly last year) versus minus Josh. I recall without having looked it up that the Hawks’ D went totally in the crapper when Al was down. The reason for that is that Al is the fundamentals guy with the great footwork that plays excellent help defense and excellent on-ball defense. So when Josh’s man beats him (just ask Al Harrington or Charlie Villanueva how tough THAT is) because, mainly, Josh does not know how to rotate his feet properly, Al is usually there helping him out.

(So Josh can try to block the shot now that his defender has him beat.) Just play a little game next time and see how many times Al needs help from Josh versus Josh needing help from Al. Not switching on the pick and roll, mind you—who gets beat more often on-ball, or caught napping on a back screen.

I tell you now, it’s not even close.

by rbubp on Dec 16, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

that's not a fair stat though...

not that I disagree with you on Al’s importance and impact, but Josh prior to this year wasn’t near as valuable as he has been through 23 games.

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 16, 2009 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

ATLpaul appeared to be speaking generally

as opposed to singling out this year, so I did too. I agree that JS has made an effort to be a more sound on-ball defender this year (though he is still fairly weak at it).

by rbubp on Dec 16, 2009 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Ditto

I see players miss lay-ups when josh just looks at them. You can see the fear in their eyes.

by sdjpark on Dec 16, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

A decent 5

Al is a decent 5. But he would be an incredible 4!! He would probably be an All-star if he was a 4.

"If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong..."

by Tybeaux on Dec 15, 2009 7:41 PM EST reply actions  

I don't get this

Would Horford be an incredibly different player at the 4? He is what he is, and is very good at it. He wouldn’t suddenly jump into all-star territory; he’s actually got a much better chance at center, where there’s less competition.

by Bronn on Dec 15, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree too.

Al is not quick enough or strong enough to have much advantage against most 4s. (Think about Amare Stoudemire.) He also does not have the shooting range necessary to stretch the court as a 4 (we see how Josh has to struggle for points sometimes because of the same problem). As a C he is undersized but his excellent footwork is a real advantage over most centers and allows him to win a lot of matchups on both offense and defense. And his range is just far enough out that he can shoot 2s from places a lot of centers don’t want to go out to…which wouldn;t happen as a 4 (open shots are a lot easier to make than contested ones).

His offense is improving to the level of league-average 4s, though. But I’m inclined to agree with Drew…if he were featured more in the offense he would be an all-star, but moving his position at this stage would be like moving Charles Barkley to SG because he was only 6’4."

by rbubp on Dec 16, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

great article! the question is what how is playing in this way going to take it’s toll on Horford’s body?

what about in the playoffs where other teams can plan and exploit the size advantage?

by zechosenjuan on Dec 16, 2009 12:23 AM EST reply actions  

Al's good , but....

I think a healthy Oden, and Perkins still have an edge on him. The article puts a lot of emphasis on the lack of players that can match against bynum and howard, but when Boston (or portland to a lesser extent) plays either, they rarely double them. From what I’ve seen, they just let oden or perk go head to head. I don’t think Al’s strong enough to do that. Plus, I think both Perkins and Oden have an advantage over Al in terms of rebounding and blocking/altering shots. Al has the edge in FT shooting, but Oden and Perk both convert a much higher percentage of their fgs (thanks to their strength advantage and the improved scoring position that helps them maintain). Plus, well…centers should be intimidating lol. If he didn’t have a beast like josh smith behind him, I think Al would be really exposed….you can’t say that for Perk or Oden because more often than not, THEY are the one providing that last line of defense.

by Customkicks on Dec 16, 2009 2:26 AM EST reply actions  

Perkins is very, very good against Howard

maybe the best in the league. And some say that does give Boston the advantage over Howard

But Horford has always been as good or better head to head against Perk. If we could have Perkins to go against Orlando, that would be great, but I think I take Al for about 27 of the other teams.

by hawksdawgs on Dec 16, 2009 6:48 AM EST up reply actions  

to your point....and to mine

i think Perkins is fitting the new mold of “normal” center that Al Horford is helping to show can be successful in the league.

by hawksdawgs on Dec 16, 2009 6:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Horford and a "healthy Oden"...

have gone at it twice this year. Horford was the better player both times. Perkins is a bit different, in that his role is rebounding, shot blocking, and being big. He fills that role greatly, but if you flipped him for Al, I think we’d lose more than Boston. With KG, Rasheed, Rondo, Allen, Pierce, etc, Perkins’ limited role is all he has to do with some many surrounding him to do everything else.

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 16, 2009 8:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Al certainly is part of a Hawks squad that ranks in the top three in fast break points and points in the paint. Both Josh and Al are a huge part of this. They consistently beat their counter parts down the court.

Something I want to mention that we don’t talk allot about. When JJ and Jamal shoot those floaters and shots around the rim I think that helps Al and Josh on defense. Since our big’s are quicker and faster these types of shots give us the advantage getting back on defense.

Am I dreaming this stuff or has anybody else noticed the same thing. It fits into the theme of taking advantage of Al’s skills on defense.

by RivBoatGambler on Dec 16, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions  

You're not dreaming.

Horford’s ball-handling skills are a huge advantage for a center, and Josh’s quickness, speed and passing are trouble for 4s.

by rbubp on Dec 16, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions  

Chemistry 101

That’s how Josh and Al are able to compliment each others game in my opinion. Skills inherent added to time spent playing together learning each others tendencies.= Experience.

That’s the beauty of basketball. Players that can operate as one from five different parts of the floor. Al dont care bout no 4 or 5. To me he seems at peace with enjoying his teamates skills that allow him to be better.

GO HAWKS!

" MR.24 "

by ctu24 on Dec 16, 2009 10:31 PM EST reply actions  

How is 6'10 Undersized?

Bill Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Alonzo Mourning were all 6’10 centers, and they are the top 3 defensive centers of all time. Why is it so hard for people to accept Al Horford as a center?

by Masood on Dec 18, 2009 11:51 PM EST reply actions  

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