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Change is always good? Part 2, Jeff Teague's minutes

Jeff Teague has not been good this year. The likelihood of him being good this season was always low. Rookie point guards drafted outside the lottery rarely contribute at a high level in their first year. Still, it is not that Teague has shown no signs of life. He has been an annoyance with on the ball defense outside the three point line, can get into the lane at will, and is at least average at finding teammates off that penetration. Teague's downfall has been his inability to hit open shots, failure to adjust to athletic shot blockers, and cheap/bad fouls after getting beat on defense. Basically his down fall has been being a rookie.

It is unfair for Teague or Woodson to expect big things from him this season or even to compare him to other rookies doing well. The Hawks have Teague and there is no reason to define his role and minutes based on anything but the Hawks' internal dynamics.Still, the role he has now is an "if" mentality. Teague can play if we get up by enough points, if foul trouble hits the front court, if Woodson remembers, and that just will not work. Jeff may have a lot of development in front of him, but the Hawks have four guys good enough to surround him and make that development have some definition outside of "we will see what happens."

Star-divide

If Bibby is out/needs minute reduction

Jeff Teague should take the minutes at point guard. He is not going to be worse at defense than Bibby, and he is only going to learn defensive communication and how to avoid fouls by playing. If you do not play Teague because he is rookie (and those are rookie issues), there is no reason to have him on the bench. Send him to the D-league. One could understand taking him out at the end of games, but Jeff Teague has enough skill to survive with four very good starters. Plus, as Bronn pointed out, Jamal Crawford at point guard has produced his weakest play from the point.

The key is defining his role, which has been hard to do in the four minute stretches Teague has had so far. The problem is no one has confidence in Jeff's jump shot, and that is a prerequisite for Woodson. Teague's college stats indicate his shooting could/should come around. So as a stop gap and/or emphasis on development, Woody could adjust. He needs to adjust. There are plenty of good point guards that cannot hit jumpers at a regular clip. And yes, Teague has had problems even hitting shots in close, but that is because bigs are blocking his shot. If they are blocking Teague's shot that means they are not guarding Josh Smith or Al Horford.Put an emphasis on distributing the ball and Jeff can be dangerous without ever taking a field goal attempt.

He will not be MIke Bibby or even Jamal Crawford. He does not need to be. He just needs to survive, and the longer he survives, the more he will learn and  the better he will get.

When the Hawks are at full strength.

Jeff Teague needs more minutes. Not because he is better than the other guys playing, but because you have to learn to trust your players, give them confidence, and allow them to learn. The Hawks may not be a better team every time Jeff hits the court, but there are moments when they will be. And the more Teague learns the game, the more those moments will happen. Plus, Jeff Teague playing point guard means Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford are playing their most effective position.

Per 36 minutes, Jeff Teague is averaging 6.5 assists to 2.1 turnovers. That is better than Ty Lawson. Of course, Teague has picked up a lot of those stats in garbage time and against second units, but with a healthy team, he really only needs to play against second units. He just needs to play.

The question Woodson needs to ask is Jeff Teague going to lose us games playing 12 minutes a game? Some match ups that might be the case, but being stubborn about a specific style of point guard is going to continue to make developing a young point guard very difficult. They rarely come in ready. That is why there is a coach.

Jeff Teague needs experience and a game plan that fits his strengths, both of those can happen without sacrificing the roles of the other players on the team. Woody will just have to break his five year old mold.

Someone get a chisel.

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Comments

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He’s a 19th pick. There’s no reason to play him as part of the regular rotation unless he is playing well which he isn’t. D-league sounds like a good idea. The only problem with that is the Hawks don’t have another true guard to take his place, but I’m sure they can find some veteran off the scrap heap that can competently give them what Teague has.

by redwards95 on Nov 24, 2009 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

if his role was back up point guard

(which it is not, it is spot minute back court guy), i think he would only be slightly below average in that role.

if he could improve slightly, and that would be expected with more minutes, i think he could play that role quite averagely. and it would keep Joe and Jamal at the two or three instead of the point guard and allow Bibby to operate at 30ish minutes a game where he can put forth his best effort.

I don’t think Teague is going to put the Hawks over any sort of hump, but I have yet to see an extra four minutes a game will push the Hawks down any sort of hill either. plus, you want to develop your draft picks. if you are good, you don’t get lottery talent so you have to figure out new ways to help them grow.

by hawksdawgs on Nov 24, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

but teague could be horrible

he could bring down the team, and that is why it is nice we can stick jamal or joe or bibby in there again.

i just want to see teague get a chance with a defined role. If takes one extra loss in a ten game stretch to figure that out, so be it. they play 82.

by hawksdawgs on Nov 24, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes but a game or two could be the difference between the Hawks moving up to a higher seed and having home court in the 2nd round (and beyond!). Having home court will be crucial to their chances to improve upon last year’s second round loss.

by redwards95 on Nov 25, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

So will having an actual point guard.

by acie4mvp on Nov 26, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

except that it is a long season...

and if he doesn’t cost you games, he can help in the least by allowing others to be more productive with more rest, and at best can actually develop into a productive player himself.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 24, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

If we sent him to the D League

who could we get to back up Mike? Are we even financially able to get anybody? Orlando picked up Williams quite easily. I think he needs to get a few minutes of burn every game. I understand that Woody doesn’t want to lose games, but look at Collision that plays for NO. Had Chris Paul not been injured, they may have never known his value.

by dstdeelite on Nov 24, 2009 1:01 PM EST reply actions  

good point...

maybe send him down when we don’t play much after Bibby gets back closer to 100%. Or I believe we are well under the 15 man limit, so you can go sign a vet like Ty Lue, Brevin Knight, Juan Dixon, Jason Hart, etc, to fill those few minutes and send Teague to the DLeague for a month or so to get action.

Besides, as hawksdawgs says “If you do not play Teague because he is rookie (and those are rookie issues),”…when you do finally start to play him, you’ll have to sort through those issues anyway.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 24, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Teague is more athletic

And I believe a better overall player then all those players. Dixon is the only name worth mentioing. There is a reason they’re all journey men. Let Teague play more minutes. Bibby can teach more to Teague then D-league even if he has lost a step.

by $73.27 on Nov 27, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

When I think about guards taken outside of the lottery

I always think about this guy. 21st pick, and in his fourth year, he’s on the verge of becoming a big star.

He got over 23 minutes per game as a rookie, despite being really bad at offense. Of course, this was on a really bad Boston team, but he started off on the bench and kept getting more and more minutes as the season went on. By the end of the year, he was starting and playing 40 minutes per.

What’s most striking, to me, is that his weaknesses back then are the same weaknesses he still has. He’s not a very good jumpshooter. He’s like 26% on his career from 3. He’s a poor free throw shooter-in fact, this year, he’s been epically bad. But what he does well, he does very well, and he’s not asked/expected to do anything else.

I’m worried that Mike Woodson might be so caught up in what Jeff Teague can’t do (make jumpshots, ala Acie Law) that he doesn’t get the chance to grow and develop his primary skills.

by Bronn on Nov 24, 2009 1:18 PM EST reply actions  

agree

teague has some serious skills that can help the team. managed correctly that is an asset to this team regardless of how bad he is at hitting jumpers. now it is not an asset for 30 minutes a game. but it deserves its own niche in the rotation.

by hawksdawgs on Nov 24, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed as well

The biggest problem here isn’t what Teague can or can’t do, it’s what Woodson is or isn’t willing to do with Teague. Even with the Hawks winning, Woodson still doesn’t have a contract after this season, he still isn’t Sund’s guy, and he still coaches like his life depends on it. Unfortunately, Teague is simply collateral damage for Woodson at this point and will continue to be until he can improve his game on his own.

It’s the classic catch-22: Teague must play to develop, but can’t play until he develops.

Corey Zickefoose: I think they should still be able to play football, regardless. Tennessee is my place. You know, it's my football team.

Reporter: Even after they put a gun in your face, you say let them play football?

Corey Zickefoose: Yeah. It's Tennessee. That's the way it is sometimes.

Welcome to the SEC!

by Jesse28 on Nov 25, 2009 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

"It’s the classic catch-22: Teague must play to develop, but can’t play until he develops."

NICE ONE JESSE28.!!! This should be the quote of the day…It perfectly fits the problem with not lottery picks on good teams…

by dkrib on Nov 25, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Except that good teams generally have good coaches who are willing to develop young talent.

by acie4mvp on Nov 26, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing is for sure

Woody won’t play him with the game in questions. He already has said as much.

by dstdeelite on Nov 24, 2009 3:07 PM EST reply actions  

this sucks.....

question :As a coach, is it a little odd that you’ll be playing the Atlanta Hawks on Thursday on a back-to-back and that team will have four days of rest?

answer: Well, we’ve already had it happen this year [against the Cleveland Cavaliers. I think it will happen twice in the league this year total, out of the 1200 games. It’ll be our two.

by doublettoluca on Nov 24, 2009 4:25 PM EST reply actions  

that does suck

but that is planted question if i have ever heard of one.

either that or SVG is the most paranoid person alive.

by hawksdawgs on Nov 24, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

i just cant wait for the game its going to be a good one…

by doublettoluca on Nov 24, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s got potential, that’s for sure. Don’t get down on him. Dunno if he really deserves more minutes yet, but he should at least have the chance to earn more as the season goes along. Crawford is NOT a point guard.

by Vic De Zen on Nov 24, 2009 4:57 PM EST reply actions  

Al and Josh are having terrific years and we have yet to see ZaZa and Evans utilized the way they could be. Jt will get his spot minutes and if he is on a roll let him play. If not go with your vets.

If we are a Bibby down why not give ZaZa the 5, Al the 4, Josh the 3, Marvin, Evans or hunter the 2 and let JJ run the point. This may work great against the bigger teams. May work great against anybody.

We would still have Crawford off the bench which to me is great because of his scoreing punch when JJ is not on the floor.

I want Teague to play well but if neither Bibby or Teague played a minute for the next 15 games – we would be fine. I trust our vets.

by RivBoatGambler on Nov 24, 2009 9:49 PM EST reply actions  

Haha

You just mentioned playing Hunter. I can hear Woody now: “Haha, that’s a good one, you should be a comedian!”

Corey Zickefoose: I think they should still be able to play football, regardless. Tennessee is my place. You know, it's my football team.

Reporter: Even after they put a gun in your face, you say let them play football?

Corey Zickefoose: Yeah. It's Tennessee. That's the way it is sometimes.

Welcome to the SEC!

by Jesse28 on Nov 25, 2009 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not riding the fence on this one...

He has been hyped up by the Hawks and us bloggers about being the point guard of the future. How much can you judge him from just getting garbage minutes and saying he’s not playing well? If you draft a player based on need and find out he has alot of potential wouldn’t you play him more? Why send him to the D-league? That’s what was done to the other players who barely played a game a season last year. If crawford is not a point guard who is the next available? Of course! someone you have tell “you have to be the spark relieving bibby.”

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Nov 24, 2009 11:12 PM EST reply actions  

i hope

teague isn’t going to be in rookie purgatory too long

Atlanta will win a championship....someday

by maxxj3 on Nov 24, 2009 11:47 PM EST reply actions  

Well

Teague needs a chance atleast. I agree with maxxj3, you really cant say whether he is horrible or will lose games unless you let him play more minutes. Just by the look of him you can tell he is super talented but being cautious is the way to go i notice. Cant do it all at once.

by Hawksgirl on Nov 25, 2009 10:22 AM EST reply actions  

Seems like Deja vu!

Aren’t these all the same things that were being said about Acie Law IV his first two years? Yet, Woodson never would give him any minutes? You have to have some faith in your players, especially during the regular season. And that’s yet another one of Woodson’s faults.

- Shotgun Spratling
- The Blue Workhorse (blueworkhorse.com)

"If you aren't laughing, you should be smiling." - The Pete

by BlueWorkhorse on Nov 26, 2009 7:24 PM EST reply actions  

Woody killed Acie’s career, something I will never forgive him for.

by acie4mvp on Nov 26, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Teague +/- is excellent when he plays with at least two starters

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/341655-if-woody-wont-let-teague-play-this-year/

I am SHOCKED to find out that Teague is -14 on the year in 41.7 minutes when playing in a lineup with all bench players. Shocked.

Did you know, however, that in the 20.2 minutes he has played with at least 2 starters on the floor that the Hawks are +18? How can this be? Teague is doing fantasticly better when playing with a few starters? Why in the world would that be the case?

I question Flip as being a superior comparison. When Flip Murray was playing without Bibby, JJ, Smith and Horford did you know he was also terrible from a +/- perspective?

  • Law-Murray-Evans-Williams-Jones 33 minutes, -25 = WORSE THAN TEAGUE (with a starter)
  • Law-Murray-Evans-Williams-Pachulia 26 minutes, -18 WORSE THAN TEAGUE (with a starter)
  • Murray-Evans-Williams-Smith-Pachulia 36 minutes, -17 = WORSE THAN TEAGUE (with two starters)

Hmmm….playing with the worst players on the team tends to bring down your +/-. That is remarkable. Who would ever have anticipated this?

Did you know Bibby has not played in one lineup this season (that I can find and at least among his top 10 by minutes) without at least 3 starters on the floor? Surely that doesn’t make a difference in +/- numbers, right?

In the one lineup I could find where Joe Johnson played with all reserves he had a negative +/-. Clearly, we should bench JJ since he is hurting us on the floor when playing minutes with the dregs of our team — just like Teague.

In fact, JJ had a worse +/- ratio on a per minute basis than Teague in the lineups where they each played with all reserves. Can JJ! His number are pulled down by playing with all subs too! He must be costing us games

public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsupsmileyanim.gif
This post should win ESPN’s NBA top 10 slam dunk!!!

Hands down post of the year.

I’d like to copy and paste this all over the blogosphere – with your permission!!!

by JerryWest of Hawksquawk.net on Dec 2, 2009 2:29 PM EST reply actions  

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