Change is always good? Part 1, Marvin Williams coming off the bench.
The grass is greener on the other side. How do I know this? Because I only admit to being on the other side when I see greener grass. Change is wonderful until we stop calling it change and start calling it a wrong decision. I am as guilty of falling in love with the different as much as anyone. I can stare fact and reason in the face and say with full sincerity that change is the answer. And the beautiful thing about championing change is there is little counter argument. Hypotheticals are tough to defeat. These what ifs will never go away. No team is perfect so the conversation will always come up. What should the Hawks change? Where should they tweak? Over the course of this week, we will look at different places where Hawks fans (including me) have cried for change. Today we will examine Marvin Williams coming off the bench.
I will admit I like this idea in principle. Not necessarily because, up until the last two games, Marvin has struggled, but because he has a personality that defers on offense. The role he has either been given or self ascribed is one that focuses on defending, rebounding, and making the open shot. Now, Marv is not exceptional at any of those things, but he is not an exceptional player so one could say he plays that role quite nicely. Still, on nights when Marvin's shot is falling or even just falling at the rate we saw last year, it seems he has the capability of being a very good offensive weapon. He is the second most versatile scorer on the team. If the Hawks have to create an environment to take advantage of that due to Marvin's personality so be it. And that leads to people clamoring to bring him off the bench.
It is tough to bring stats into the equation since Marvin has only played about 25 minutes with a unit that consists predominantly of the second team (at least three bench players), and those small samples sway neither enormously negative or positive, but I think logistical points make this change a non issue.
First, the Hawks have a sixth man. Few teams have two sixth men. You have a player who comes off the bench to provide a spark. Giving that role to two players is simply confusing one of the great strengths of the sixth man function. And if those two players are Marvin and Jamal Crawford, it is tough to see Marv asserting himself on offense over the shot happy Crawford anymore than he would as a starter.
Second, Mike Woodson rarely plays the entire second unit for an extended period of time. It is a new thing this season for the Hawks, and we have only seen it for 31 minutes this season. So the idea that Marvin could be more aggressive on the second unit would be switching up a very successful starting unit for a few six minute stretches every third game or so.
Third, the start of a game is important. It is why almost every team but three or four put their best five players on the court to begin the game. For some of the elite small forwards that Marvin Williams guards, two minutes can be all it takes to get in a shooting rhythm for the entire game. Mo Evans would make a fast start easier and provide little work for said opposing star on the offensive end.
Marvin Williams is actually right. The most important thing for him is defense and rebounding. We always want more out of our players, but if he ever could become sensational at one or both of those, the Hawks would be a better team and Marvin would earn his contract money easily. In the immediate, Marv could be most beneficial, not by coming off the bench or getting more shots, but driving the basketball more and hitting the mid range jumper at a similar rate as previous years. The Hawks do not need 15 shots from Marv. They need efficient ones.
Still, that sentiment ignores the underutilized potential that Marvin has, and if he can show his willingness to drive the ball, get to the free throw line, and knock down open shots in the limited moments he chooses to score, Woodson should seek out opportunities for Williams. I think though, instead of bringing him off the bench, playing Marv alongside Jamal Crawford and an actual point guard (Bibby or Teague) and at least one back up front court player could be the best way to provide more offensive sets for him.
In the end, playing Jamal Crawford and Joe Johnson side by side is going to limit touches for most people, and the more we see Joe Johnson at the three, the harder it is to get Marvin minutes, let alone minutes as a primary offensive weapon. Still, a problem exists in that the Hawks have yet to figure out how to most efficiently and effectively use the talent they have. Figuring out ways to get players rest, take advantage of the variety of offensive weapons available, and not create drastic mismatches on defense is a Mike Woodson problem, and the answers are plenty. The Hawks versatility means you could call for Marvin to see time at the four or work him more with Joe off the court or move him to work with mostly the second unit. I have no firm resolve on which is correct (if any), but I know figuring out a Hawks rotation that maximizes skill and limits the reliance on any one player will center around what the Hawks do with Mustache Marv.
Still to come: Jeff Teague's minutes, Al Horford at the power forward, Joe Johnson resting, other suggestions?
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15 comments
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Comments
Marvin should be a starter
I think Marvin should be a starter becos of the points you stated above.
- He is not really agressive .Hence, of the starting 5, he is the least likely to look for his shot or force the issue. You need someone like that on the starting team. You dont want to have 5 guys that want the ball!!.
- He plays D.Marvin is probably the most fundamentally sound defender in the Hawks team. He does not gamble, he makes every attempt to stay in front of his guy and contest every shot.With his athleticism, that is not a problem and also, with his size, athleticism and strength, there is no Small Forward in the league that can cause a match up problem. Playing Joe or Evans at the 3 can cause match up problems against some teams.
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by dkrib on Nov 23, 2009 12:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Other Suggestions.
- If Bibby is out for an extended period, who should start at the point . Jamal or Teague ???
by dkrib on Nov 23, 2009 12:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jamal, almost certainly
The New Orleans game should be a pretty good indicator. Bibby scarcely played at all, so Jamal ends up going 40 minutes, while Teague gets his standard 5 minutes.
Teague should see some amount of up-tick in his playing time, but he certainly don’t get starter’s minutes. One thing that should be fun to watch (that is, fun in the way a magic 8 ball is fun) is Mike Woodson’s response to Jeff Teague missing open shots. Too often, I’m seeing Teague get a semi-open jumper, miss it (which isn’t all that damning) and then get subbed out at the next opportunity.
However, when Teague actually scores, he gets longer stints, even if he’s shooting 2-7. He just has to make one of his first shot attempts, and Woodson leaves him in. I do believe that Woodson thinks Teague’s role on the bench is to be another scorer.
by Bronn on Nov 23, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure you're right that Jamal would start,
but wouldn’t it be risky for Teague’s development to put him into the Crawford role off the bench in his rookie year? I would prefer Teague to jump right into the point guard role, especially if Bibby is only out for a week or so, just to get experience. JJ can cover for him offensively, and Bibby’s role on defense is minimal. The long term benefits of Teague playing well in that situation, to me, outweighs the higher liklihood of success with Jamal at PG.
by Buzzsaw on Nov 23, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Evans would then slide into Crawford's role...
with Crawford and Joe playing most of the minutes at point.
Although, I think you could start Teague. If he plays well, give him more time and if not let him sit a while. And if anything, he wouldn’t be the first NBA starter in name only playing at most 15 minutes while multiple bench players get more action.
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 23, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like JT starting and then see how it goes.
Anything positive out of the kid is a big plus. LONG LIVE BIBBY Get well soon.
by RivBoatGambler on Nov 23, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I vote Teague
Jamal coming off the bench has created mismatches similar to Manu coming off the bench for San Antonio. He’s a great sixth man and I think he’s utilized best there. Teague seams to be better as a true point (or at least it seamed that way during the preseason when we actually got to see him play a little)
by The Beard on Nov 23, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jamal. Teague hasn’t shown anything other than being fast so far. Jamal plays starter minutes already anyway, so it wouldn’t be a big change.
by redwards95 on Nov 23, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I predict Teauge starting and then playing 5 minutes
a la Royal Ivey
by thirdfALCON on Nov 23, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice to see Marvin back.
I would still like to see Evans more get minutes. It’s a long season.
by RivBoatGambler on Nov 23, 2009 4:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good deals on hawks tix over the holidays
http://www.nba.com/hawks/tickets/black_friday_offer.html
But WTF is "cyber Monday?
by coachkcastellon on Nov 23, 2009 4:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Two suggestions
One for Crawford: Take a page outta Josh’s book and stop shooting threes.
And for Woody: Get Othello Hunter some minutes. The guy straight out plays when he’s given an opportunity.
by axhfan on Nov 23, 2009 10:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I absolutely don't think Marvin should come off the bench.
We’re 11-3, change is bad. Besides, I truly believe Marvin could be anything he was asked to be within our offense. We don’t run plays for him, so he plays solid defense and hits open threes.
If Jamal were to join the starting lineup, it’d literally ruin the defense. We’d have have two lame ducks on defense, we’d be switching too much, and getting killed. Marvin is necessary.
by Buzzsaw on Nov 24, 2009 1:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
marvin should be the starter
He brings the defense we need and is not obsessed with offense but trys to give us it when we need it most……I dont want teague to turn out like royal ivey did(i liked royal) and i believe he should give teague a chance to start since he is a true pointguard. Only play him for like 5 minutes and see how well he leads the first unit. Lots of leadership in the first unit, could help his confidence and leadership skills
by Hawksgirl on Nov 24, 2009 9:49 AM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
and isnt a rookie suppost to start?
You saw chris pauls injurie let a rookie get a start, why not try that?
by Hawksgirl on Nov 24, 2009 9:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

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