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Mike Woodson, learning, lucky, or stubbornly patient?


There are really two options. To give credit to Mike Woodson or to apologize for giving too much blame in previous years. Ok there is a third and that is the no way, no how, no Woody philosophy. No matter how far you want to go in either direction, the scales are far from tipped. Ten games have not confirmed Woodson, his players, the team, or even we the fans have changed. It is a very good start, but starts necessitate not being finishes, and one can only go so far with proclamations early in an 82 game race.

Still, ten games are done, and the Hawks do look better. Endurance and focus aside, up to this point, one has facts to compare no matter the future. It may be incomplete comparisons, but trends have begun to show themselves. So as we look at Mike Woodson through ten games how has he changed as a coach? How has he not? How has either one of those affected the Hawks for good? 

Some real changes

Mike Woodson has routinely played his entire second unit together. I cannot remember one time outside of a 20 point lead or deficit where that has happened before this year. I like it. Watching Joe Johnson play 7 minutes a game struggling to stay afloat with the second unit just seemed like a bad use of resources. Now that the full second unit can stay afloat on its own, it works quite nicely.

The low post touches are increasing. I am seeing that most clearly in the way 1) Horford cuts to the basket 2) people are looking for him. Al Horford is seeing the most increase in shots (and that is only one a game), but Josh Smith is playing more in the paint so it feels even more pronounced.

End of quarter plays. Sure you are going to see a lot of Jamal Crawford and Joe Johnson clear out, dribble fest, and jumper shot, but at the end of the first quarter against Boston, Woody realized he had a guy who could demand a double team off the dribble in Crawford and got Joe Johnson a wide open three point shot. I swear, it really happened.

Star-divide

Some real standards

Two fouls. You get two fouls in the first half, you are going to sit. All you need to see is Josh Smith's 32 minutes despite full games of good attitude to realize Woody remains deathly afraid of a foul out. However, this odd phobia is less annoying when a team is winning.

Rookie point guards are going to be used situational. Like Acie Law, Jeff Teague appears like he is going to used with match ups more in mind than development. The bad news is that means a few DNPs. The good news is Mike Woodson is finding Jeff Teague more useful.

Joe Johnson playing big minutes to win. If the Hawks go down, Mike Woodson believes Joe Johnson is required for a comeback. Whether he is right or not is tough to say, but win or lose, Joe Johnson playing 44 minutes against the Knicks is tough to swallow.

The "x-factors"

Jamal Crawford. The guy is doing things we have never had before in Atlanta. He can break guys down, get to the foul line, pass well, and get (if not always hit) wide open jumpers. As Hoopinion has mentioned well and I have tried to talk about badly, Woody's job is to manage these great skills against Crawford's very real weaknesses. How can you hide his defense? How can you manage his minutes in a way to control his shot selection? So far Woodson has done a great job, but so has Crawford. Where to stop lauding Jamal with praise and start tipping your hat to Woody is a tough line to find.

Josh Smith. In the first ten games, the guy is a different player. Josh Smith at full effort not only erases his own faults but does a pretty good job of hiding Woody's as well. If Woody could not persuade Josh to play within himself for the first five years, it is tough to believe our coach broke through now. In my mind, Josh Smith jumpers were always a Josh Smith issue. The one place I put blame on Woody came with how he allowed Josh to be in position to shoot them...ever. Josh remains out there, he just takes them less.

Joe isolation. They still happen. They are still good. They still sometimes act as a crutch more than an advantage, but long stretches of the Joe show are not as long as they have been in the past.

See what you want.

Here is what is clear. Coaches get blamed for losses. Lets be honest. They are easier to get rid of. Players get credit for winning. Coaches have to overachieve or win championships to sniff that kind of credit.

Still, Woody has made mistakes in the past. He has left the door open for criticism. And while it may not be normal or feel good, I think people like myself should look to affirm Coach Woodson as fast I seek to ridicule him.

At this point though, you are going to see what you want. There is fodder for any argument, but that does not mean it makes the arguing less fun. So what do you think, in this young season, is Mike Woodson learning, is he lucky, or just finally found the crew to allow his same old tactics to work?

Poll
If you must compare Mike Woodson this season to years past, what are your feelings?
He is the same. I was just too hard on him considering what he had to work with.
13 votes
Players better. Woody is not.
35 votes
Plain and simple, Woody has gotten better.
18 votes
Captain of the Woody fan club. Still taking memberships.
2 votes
Woody is better. Players are better. All is right with the world.
119 votes

187 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 33 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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aaaahhhhh.......

Let us enjoy this while it lasts!! I am totally stoked, if but only for a week. Hawk Fans, drink up. Enjoy!!!!! Go Hawks!!!!!

by dstdeelite on Nov 16, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

whatchu talkin about?

I’m just as happy as when they beat the Heat in the 1st round. The Hawks getting national pub is a crazy feeling. Hopefully we can at least have another 3-1 week. I won’t be too greedy yet.

Woody – COY!!!!!!!

by xavip on Nov 16, 2009 12:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

if the hawks finish number one

i will go out on a limb and say woody will win COY.

don’t say i never make predictions.

by hawksdawgs on Nov 16, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

if he does

suicidal urges will counteract my unbelievable happiness and leave me feeling slightly worse than i do right now

by acie4mvp on Nov 16, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm really excited about it, too

I don’t expect it to last, and I’m not sure I even buy it right now, but it’s nice. Just like having the best record in the east is nice, and I don’t think that will last either.

by Bronn on Nov 16, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing I did like

was when he was wired for sound during one of the games, how he was encouraging the guys to hang in there and not hang their heads. After one particular game, he was actually clapping and congratulating them for coming back from a deficit. I think he has definitely improved in that area.

by dstdeelite on Nov 16, 2009 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

Two more things I'd like to see...

1) consistent minutes for Jeff Teague. Not 12-15+ or anything, although on some nights he might warrant it. But at least get the kid a couple minutes in the first and second half of every game. Maybe make it around the quarter breaks to let Joe, Jamal, or Bibby get extended rest with the extra time off.

And 2) Let Marvin play with the second unit some so he can be an offensive focal point. A second unit of Bibby/Teague/Crawford at PG, then Evans-Marvin—Joe Smith—Zaza at 2-5 might allow him to be a little more assertive offensively and refind his stroke.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 16, 2009 12:50 PM EST reply actions  

It's pretty simple

Josh Smith has finally become a professional. His immaturity was the one thing holding this team back from becoming great, because, physically, his only peers in the league are Dwight Howard and Lebron James.

Now that Josh understands what Woody is saying, it makes things a lot easier on the court and in the locker room.

Thing is, this team still has room to improve a good bit. Can you imagine this team in the playoffs if Marvin finds his legs and gets hot? Who would throw a better 9-man rotation out than ours?

by Fred Pen on Nov 16, 2009 12:57 PM EST reply actions  

the longer marvin struggles, the more i worry

but if he can get his efficiency back to even normal levels, this offense is going to be scary.

by hawksdawgs on Nov 16, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

It's simply a matter of opportunity

Right now Marvin is simply the odd man out, the fifth option in the starting five and Woodson is playing more three-guard rotations. If you had mentioned moving him to the second unit last year, I would have called you crazy, but now it makes much more sense to have Evans with the first team of Josh, Horford, Bibby, and JJ.

Moving Marvin to the second unit would make him the second or third option and help him get plenty of shots so that he doesn’t lose any confidence and cost us a game or two later in the season.

Corey Zickefoose: I think they should still be able to play football, regardless. Tennessee is my place. You know, it's my football team.

Reporter: Even after they put a gun in your face, you say let them play football?

Corey Zickefoose: Yeah. It's Tennessee. That's the way it is sometimes.

Welcome to the SEC!

by Jesse28 on Nov 16, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Offensively it makes sense

As bad as JJ has played on defense thus far this year, our first team defense really needs Marvin. He’s been our best man defender. JJ can’t really guard most of the small forwards in the East, and it’s been evident when he’s been asked to try. Evans was really, really bad at guarding SFs last year. As long as Marvin keeps working hard, playing good defense, the first unit needs him.

Right now, his shooting is just out of whack, and putting him a role where he’ll be more high-usage is only ask him to emphasis what’s not working, while the first team becomes less effective on one end of the floor.

by Bronn on Nov 16, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

You’ll have to forgive my oversight of the defense aspect of his game. It’s just that all of our scoring is somewhat contagious and when you see that one player really isn’t keeping up with the rest, that’s the first thing you try to fix. I’ve seen the numbers and you are correct, Marvin is our best man defender right now, even with his struggling offensive production.

Corey Zickefoose: I think they should still be able to play football, regardless. Tennessee is my place. You know, it's my football team.

Reporter: Even after they put a gun in your face, you say let them play football?

Corey Zickefoose: Yeah. It's Tennessee. That's the way it is sometimes.

Welcome to the SEC!

by Jesse28 on Nov 16, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Please no Mo in starting line up

I would not want to see Mo guarding Roy . He does not have the quckness to stay in front of Roy. I think Marvin should stay in starting lineup especiually for Defensive purposes

by dkrib on Nov 16, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

which is why I like him playing more...

with the second unit, so he can be more assertive on that end.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 16, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Fred

I agree he has matured but I think it’s more than that. Crawford has really opened up the offense. I also think Josh’s control has improved and his hands are softer. Team MVP so far. Rem to vote in all star ballet.

by RivBoatGambler on Nov 16, 2009 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks Hawksdawg!!!

For finally given some credit to Woody. He deserves it.

by dkrib on Nov 16, 2009 1:11 PM EST reply actions  

Anyone check David Andersen's line from last night?

I still wonder what our team would look like with him on the roster?

Obviously, Zaza probably would not have come back.

I wish we had gotten more than a 2nd rounder for him.

by Fred Pen on Nov 16, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions  

He would have been a great fit on some previous Hawks' teams

But I don’t think this one as much. We don’t really need his shooting, and we’ve got too many guys who need/deserve minutes. We’ve certainly got no shortage of bigs, though he’s definitely more useful than a Randolph Morris or Jason Collins, but Zaza deserves his minutes, as does Horford. Maybe if we didn’t have Jamal, we could have worked him into a position where he was playing a lot of minutes that Marvin or Josh are sitting.

As it is, I can’t really complain about how things have turned out-aside from missing out on Ty Lawson.

by Bronn on Nov 16, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember all the talk about how weak this year's draft was?

Hmmm…looks to me like it going to be really solid throughout the first round, and Griffin still has not suited up.

I still think Teague is going to be a player, but he needs to get some more minutes so he is not so frenetic when he gets in.

I would also say that Teague’s dunk on Odom was as impressive as Lawson’s.

by Fred Pen on Nov 16, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, still early, but...

Brandon Jennings is carrying this draft class right now. I mean, there’s no Greg Oden to his Kevin Durant, no Derrick Rose to his OJ Mayo. Let’s not forget that Hasheem Thabeet, inexplicably, was drafted second, so the only contributor from the top 5 picks so far is Tyreke Evans, and he’s high usage at low efficiency. Right now, Jennings is 1a and 1b from the draft class.

Just take a quick look at last year’s rookie class:

Derrick Rose
OJ Mayo
Brook Lopez
Eric Gordon
Russel Westbrook
Kevin Love
Mario Chalmers

All of those guys were really good last year while playing heavy minutes, plus Michael Beasley is eventually going to be really good. This year:

Brandon Jennings
Ty Lawson
DeJuan Blair
Tyreke Evans
Johnny Flynn

Beyond that, I’m at a loss to find anyone who’s been very useful thus far as a rookie. Toney Douglas? Chase Budinger? Sure, this will look a bit better when Griffin comes back, but I don’t see him in the class of guys like Kevin Love, Brook Lopez, Greg Oden, and Al Horford.

Lot of season to go, but I still don’t see this draft class matching up with the last two when it’s all said and done.

by Bronn on Nov 16, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmmm, when you put it like that,

I guess they were right. This class sucked.

Guess I am over valuing what I think WILL happen versus what has happened in actuality.

It’s only 10 games in though, so we will see.

by Fred Pen on Nov 16, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree...

we’ve yet to see what Blake Griffin (looked like a solid PF at least) and Ricky Rubio (with Flynn playing well, who knows where he lands).

Jennings looks like a future leader for the Bucks. He may flash out like Marbury or something, but he’s looks like the makeup for Bogut not being a true #1, and makes for a nice core with him at 1 and 5.

Lawson looks like he’ll be solid although he’s a pretty ideal change of pace to Billups now and not sure if he can carry a load as a starter.

Evans looks strong for a very weak Kings team. Hard to hold his lack of good teammates (although i like the future of Hawes and Thompson among others, they aren’t good yet).

Flynn looks like a good 1 to match up with Love and Jefferson up front, and Steph Curry certainly looks like he’ll be at least a solid starter.

Blair looks like a solid role player, as does Budinger. Douglas looks good for NY. Taj Gibson and Terrance Williams are at least solid rotation players. And the rest haven’t really gotten enough time yet. This isn’t a superstar class, but it certainly looks like it will fill rosters for a while.

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 16, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

1st on ESPN power rankings as well

For the first time ever, I’m sure.
I guess since you guys are talking about it I can rest assured I’m not dead. Is this really happened? Should we all be incredibly worried for tonight?

by eyy on Nov 16, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

Should be worried, I think,

but Portland is on a 5 gamer, and may have gotten the Magic City experience last night.

by Fred Pen on Nov 16, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

If the girls of Magic City and Body Tap were on top of their game

last night, we should come out of Philips with a win. It’s so hard to be overly confident in our new found fortune, but I see no reason why we should lose in our our own house tonight.

by dstdeelite on Nov 16, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Outlaw is out for this game

Which means we’ll probably see more Blake/Miller rotations. I’m sorry, but every minute Blake gets increases our chances of winning.

Corey Zickefoose: I think they should still be able to play football, regardless. Tennessee is my place. You know, it's my football team.

Reporter: Even after they put a gun in your face, you say let them play football?

Corey Zickefoose: Yeah. It's Tennessee. That's the way it is sometimes.

Welcome to the SEC!

by Jesse28 on Nov 16, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

As for the topic of this post

I think it’s a cobination of all things mentioned. Clearly the players are better and for the first couple weeks, it looks as though Woodson has really gotten better. I think having the enormous amount of quality depth has more to do with Woodson than anything. I’m not saying that to take anything away from Woody, but he has a proven track record that he trusts veterans over draft picks, so having ten veterans on the bench allows him to trust his bench more than he ever has.

Maybe that has led him to trust the player more on the court so he doesn’t have to run ISO-Joe’s all game long. Maybe that has allowed him to extend the rotation because he knows he has quality players that won’t lose a lead. Either way, he has improved in many of the areas that I have criticized him on before. It seems as though he is calling timeouts at the right time, cutting off an opponents run instead of letting them get 20 up on us. The ball movement is amazing. Sure, there are still some isolations, but I’m not so sure all of them are designed but instead just JJ doing what he has gotten used to for the last five years. Without checking it, the pace seems to have increased and I’ve always contended that this team was built to run, not Pheonix/Golden State type run, but much more than we have in the past few years.

Then there are two players that have been introduced that have really opened things up, not only for Woddson, but for the players as well. Crawford and Joe Smith. Crawford might be the best break-down player we’ve had in years. Yes, even better than JJ because I swear JJ just hypnotizes the opponent for 20 seconds then bursts through to score. Joe Smith isn’t going to fill the stat sheet, but outside of Zaza, we’ve haven’t had this kind of quality front court bench in a while. Both of these things have helped allow the other player to play to their strengths and allowed Woodson to utilize everyone in a much more efficient manor.

But, before Dkrib gets all giddy with excitement, just note that this is all based on a very small sample size, early in a long 82 game season, and that we haven’t seen how the team will react to an injury. Two weeks of progress is not an excuse to ignore previous years worth of bad habits and letdowns. So, I’m overly excited about the possibilities of where this team can go, but I remain cautiously optimistic until I see these positives continue for a longer period of time.

Corey Zickefoose: I think they should still be able to play football, regardless. Tennessee is my place. You know, it's my football team.

Reporter: Even after they put a gun in your face, you say let them play football?

Corey Zickefoose: Yeah. It's Tennessee. That's the way it is sometimes.

Welcome to the SEC!

by Jesse28 on Nov 16, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions  

I agree mostly

although I think that the minute usage is inexcusable and hate how Woody can’t develop a player for shit. But I think he may actually have improved, at least through 10 games

by acie4mvp on Nov 16, 2009 5:57 PM EST reply actions  

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