Trade Joe Johnson...
by ca$hmere36 on Oct 13, 2009 7:01 AM EDT
33 comments
i personally think its time the hawks and Joe split ways and pursue new options. i think since Joe thinks he's worth more than 15mil we let him go and get compensated for that. i dont think he's worth more than that though. so now we come to the part where we get something of value for the guy and why not do it now so that the team has time to grow and make adjustments?
i'd like to trade joe to the warriors for biedrins,morrow,and maggette we give them Joe and zaza this guves them a 2 guard to move not only stephen jackson but monta ellis who doesnt want to play with curry on the squad. this trade also gives us a big man to pair with big al and joe crawford could start the only problem with that would be who rides the bench j-smooth or marvin?
bibby
crawford
marvin/josh smith
horford
biedrins
and this trade gives us the front court size and depth on our bench and lets big al grow in his natural postion.
but to me i think its time to get rid of joe cause i honestly dont think he wants to be here and he chokes in the playoffs and i honestly think marvin would be a better scoring threat without the joe. a trade does ask the question of is joe a product of the hawks or are the hawks a product of joe??? either way theres only one way to find out.
(head over to realgm.com and check the trade checker it works as long as its done after 15 dec 09 since zaza was recently re-signed)
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No...
Magette is almost negative value. Morrow would be a nice backup wing, and Biedrins is a solid big either next to a dominant big or off the bench. Not worth it for Joe, plus he’ll likely be playing at his best in April/May due to it being a contract year and hopefully a deeper bench allowing Woody to not wear him down in December.
without looking at the future salary cap implications
and the impact they would have on signing horford, call me intrigued but not convinced. but definitely intrigued.
well we
already picked up horford option through 2010
ok but he leaves and we get
nothing in return all so we can let show us his back and then slip back into a scramble for a 2 guard???
but, but...
I thought Crawford was your 2 guard without JJ?
Yeah, I’m not enthusiastic about the idea of trying to trade him now. First, it’s way too late in the game to reasonably levarage anything in a deal. If the team wanted to try this route, then he should have been the first player offered a deal so they would still have a decent market to play with, but right now, most teams are settled and aren’t looking to make a deal. In the very least, I’d say let’s revisit this closer to the deadline and see how he’s playing/being played and go from there.
After the season, it’s true that he will be a free agent and could essentially walk with the team getting nothing in return, but that doesn’t cut off the possibility of us doing a sign-n-trade. I doubt that would happen, because if the team is willing to take multiple table scraps for JJ, then it’s a horrible idea to begin with. If they are looking for a top level player for JJ, then JJ probably isn’t going to want to do it because it would mean he would be going to a team without their best or second best player.
Yes, I think we would be ok without JJ in the future, but right now we are essentially locked to JJ for this year. Maybe Woodson can work some ISO magic with Crawford and Teague, but that won’t be known until later in the season. Losing JJ right now would end this team before the season even started.
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."-----Cormican on Bleeding Green Nation w/r/t fans overreacting to the Eagles signing of Michael Vick
Warriors fan here
There’s no way Morrow would be included, we have him on a bargain contract considering he is one of the best shooters, if not the best, in the NBA. Along with Monta, Curry, and Randolph, he is labeled by our GM as “Untouchable”
Andris is our only legitimate center other than Mikki Moore, and I guess Turiaf. AB was also one of our “untouchables” until his name started getting thrown around in trades for Bosh and Amar’e, so aquiring Zaza doesn’t really cut it.
How bout Maggette and Jackson for Joe Johnson?
Bibby/Crawford
Jackson
Williams/Maggette
Smith
Horford
Johnson and Jackson, on paper are very similar. Obviously Jackson has a fairly volatile personality, however when he’s happy(winning) he is an excellent player and leader. The year we knocked off Dallas and the year after where we won 48 games are great examples of this. Tim Duncan also called him “the greatest teammate” he’s ever had.
I know he played in the ATL before, but you never really had him when you had a good team. Jackson is one of the better clutch performers in the league. He had a streak where he made 6 straight 3’s in game 6 vs Dallas. Cap’n Jack is only unhappy now because he doesn’t see us making the playoffs, your team is all but a lock. Jack would be a terrific fit in your backcourt.
You also get Maggette, who as a 6th man is always a candidate for 6th man of the year. Even though he was unhealthy last year, he still managed to score 19.something ppg in less than 30 mins, that’s efficient. He can also play PF when you go small.
That would be a great trade for us, I think it would benefit you as well. You more than replace Johnson’s scoring, and then some, plus you get added depth on the wings. Even though Maggs and Jack each have 4 years left on their contracts, I think you guys are getting a fair deal. Also you could get this deal done before the season starts, so they can get that whole chemistry thing down.
This has also been bugging me.
Monta basically retracted his statements after our first pre-season game, when Curry torched the Clipps. Not with his shooting but with his passing, court vision, and D.
Monta could have been more eloquent; “He’s better than I thought” is hella wack.
But the point is still valid. Monta is happy with Curry on the team. Monta know’s most nights he is going to start with Jack, Morrow, or Azubuike, but when the matchup is right, Curry will start with Monta, and they compliment each other well. They’re similar but different. Here is an article elaborating on that topic, if you care to read: http://www.examiner.com/x-24396-Golden-State-Warriors-Examiner~y2009m10d11-Ellis-Curry-are-the-same-but-different
MONTA DOES NOT WANT A TRADE. He has even been quoted as saying he wants to retire a Warrior and will be willing to renegotiate when his contract is up.
Don’t believe overblown media hype, they’re trying to build up Dubs drama for the money.
monta shut
the hell up cause he saw what they were doing to jackson.
heck no
we’d want youth too in order to justify those contracts guy. and a cheap morrow would do that and the guy can shoot in garbage time and preseason but he’s spot when the pressure is on, but so is joe but at least he made the playoffs.
Morrow lead the league in 3pt percentage last year,
as a rookie. Look it up
I was just throwin it out there. Wasn't too serious.
It was more of a response to the ridiculous proposal where we give up two starters and a 6th man for Joe Johnson.
That would make Jack happy, but it would ruin our squad.
Jackson is almost the same player as Joe, and you get Maggette, so mine is still not as ridiculous as yours.
ok
i feel ya but there trying to trade jj anyways and monta would bring in a center as well and its not like you all have a lack of PF either
Maggette is worthless...
no one wants him, especially at his price tag. Same goes for Jackson. Biedrins is a solid player, but wouldn’t start for the Hawks. The better end of that deal is actually Joe Johnson.
well i think 15 -16mill
is more tha enough for a good SG that chokes during the playoffs. not to mention durabilty issues as well.
is there any two you would trade JJ for?
Terrible trade offer for JJ
I believe Jesse 28 said it best…" I doubt that would happen, because if the team is willing to take multiple table scraps for JJ, then it’s a horrible idea to begin with." The Hawks have already had their run w/ SJackson, Maggette is declining, they already have JCrawford so they don’t need AMorrow(although i’m a huge fan of Morrow and wish I had his shooting touch, lol), and AB would match the athleticism on the team, but he’s not a TRUE big man by any means.
The problem isn’t JJ, it’s the system that they play in. Mike Woodson is militant, meaning that he is accustomed to coaching a certain way and does not adapt to change and game situations as he should. JJ plays in a system where he is set in an isolation and everyone pretty much stands around, leading to low percentage shots from everyone else and wasted time ran off the shot clock. The Hawks have a very athletic teams and should have much more movement on the court rather than running ISO w/ JJ on offense and switches on defense that leads to the worst denfender on the team guarding the best offesive player on the opposing team.
JJ ran the isolation pretty well for the Hawks over the past few years, but it takes a toll on a player eventually. JCrawford and JTeague were great additions to assist JJ, but it all goes back to my point in Woodson’s system not matching, or maximizing the potential of the players on the team. The Hawks have improved, and i’m very grateful for it being a HUGE Hawks fan, but it is hard to see the players/team progressing to its highest potential in the system the Hawks has right now. That system will not change b/c Woodson is too militant to change/adapt to game situations.
Many teams are pretty stable right now, and JJ knows it. There very few, if any trade that would be decent enough to trade for JJ, which is why JJ is playing the 2010 free agent market b/c the caliber of players that will be availble could lead to him bringing in more money depending on what he does in this contract year.
by Anonymous HawksGuy on Oct 15, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions
JJ isnt the type of guy to ask for more money, he has a reason behind what he is doing and i dont believe its money
Nothin Less Than Real
i believe it is
i mean honestly how many yrs does he have left in him and they already have to protect him by lowering his minutes whats happens two yrs from now….PENNY HARDAWAY….thats what happens
Yeah but.....
Penny played way more D than Joe Johnson. A major injury isn’t something that you have to worry about with JJ. He hasn’t been the same since the eye injury he suffered when he played for PHX. He hasn’t played any real defense since. When he dunked last year in a game, I fell out of my chair because I didn’t think JJ could jump since he never does on defense.
by Hawks Fan From Day One on Oct 31, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
There’s only two reasons a player turns down a near-max level contract. Either A) he wants more money or B) he doesn’t want to play for his current team any longer. If JJ truly believes that this team is close then why would he risk losing out on a sure thing? Accept the contract offer, take the ridiculous money now, try to win a championship. Otherwise, he’s simply risking losing more than he could possibly gain and he could end up having to take less money and still play for the Hawks.
Not accepting the offer tells me that he thinks he’s worth more or he thinks he has a better opportunity to win a championship elsewhere. Neither of those endear me to the guy or want to defend him. I completely disagreed with offering him the contract that Sund did, but it’s not my choice. His refusing the lucrative offer makes me just think he’ll get whatever comes his way. He made his choice and now he will have to live with it, for better or for worse.
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."-----Cormican on Bleeding Green Nation w/r/t fans overreacting to the Eagles signing of Michael Vick
Thumbs up
I totally agree with your point here as it is almost exactly how I felt about the situation when I heard he turned it down. I’m like, “WHAT?” Here’s a guy that choked on us in last year’s playoffs (Josh was the only guy who showed up!), doesn’t play shutdown defense (standing at 6’7", so he’s not a little guy), slows down the offense when he pounds the rock and misses, etc……makes it hard to want to try to keep him here. His average in the playoffs were way under his reg. season average……and this guy thinks he’s on the level of a LBJ and D-Wade? HOWEVER, I would only like to see JJ go for a marquee name that can fill his position…..and if we have to throw in Marvin, so be it. If not, then leave my team the way that it currently is.
by Hawks Fan From Day One on Oct 31, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course they have to protect him
Woody has rode him like a mule since he has been here and each year we have gotten better. If he is looking for money then he is out to prove what he is worth. He never gets angry or shows his emotions, he justs plays. So let him play and let’s see how much he is worth when the season comes shall we
Nothin Less Than Real
but isnt that what you do with stars if he
wants lebron,kobe,redd,melo money he has to be able to carry his team like those guys do. i sure d-wade would switch teams with him in a second and not break down in the playoffs when it matters most.
you get star money when you become a star not a borderline one. he is making a fair wage for what a 2-3 time all-star back-up.
true that i understand ca$hmere36………..but didnt these “elite” stars have bad playoff games or couple of games? Everyone has, he has carried the team before but once he doesnt (mainly because of injury) everyone(not saying you) turns against him like he isnt a two time allstar.
Dwade had a bad couple of playoff games and couldnt help his team so should he be traded or get better players? Players. Now that the hawks have players jj can work better and prove his worth…..i guess
lol i lost my train of thought but you get what i mean
Nothin Less Than Real
thats true
but those guys have a ring as well. but jj has a bad playoff career
ARE YOU NUTS?!?
we still need him; unless we can get a really big time player like Dwight howard, Lebron James, Shaq, Kobe Bryant, or Allen Iverson we should not trade Joe
well thats y
you use jj as the foundation in a trade to bring in a guy like that. me personally id rather have a rudy gay or oj mayo on this squad. or maybe even a martell webster
JJJJJJJJJohnson
is going nowhere. If JT and Crawford play well he does not make all star. The Hawks will get their 55 wins and he will be happy to be part of a scary play off team. JJ will get his money by passing more and shooting a better FG%. 16 pts a game is what we need from Joe. Bless his heart the iso is dead and gone.
That's what we really need to be talking about!
The ISO IS soooooo dead and gone. That you can’t put on JJ. That’s asinine coaching. This team will move into the upper echelon of teams once we remove Woody from his position. he wasn’t offered an extension, so I guess my team will finally succeed next season when Woody is long gone.
by Hawks Fan From Day One on Oct 31, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeff Teague Jersey
OT – I’m from Indy and I have to get an Atlanta Hawks Jeff Teague Jersey. I haven’t been able to find one on the internet (tried the hawks nba store). Anybody have a link where i can purchase a his jersey.
Thanks!!
did you try the NBA store website?
they usually have everything involving the NBA
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